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Did We Ever Figure Out What THIS Means (Re: Secondaries)??

AuldrakarAuldrakar Member, Alpha Two
edited December 2 in General Discussion
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Did they ever clarify what this means?

I.e does it mean that the Tank Primary archetype, and the Cleric Primary archetype will start getting access to many of the 8 Secondary archetypes,

OR does it mean that the Cleric & Tank Secondary Archetypes will start to become available for all 8 PRIMARY Archetypes?

Plz help, confused...

Comments

  • ShabooeyShabooey Member, Alpha Two
    I think it's that the, current, playable archetypes will get access to Tank and Cleric as a secondary archetype.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Auldrakar wrote: »
    he Cleric & Tank Secondary Archetypes will start to become available for all 8 PRIMARY

    My interpretation is this.
    TVMenSP.png
    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • AuldrakarAuldrakar Member, Alpha Two
    Shabooey wrote: »
    I think it's that the, current, playable archetypes will get access to Tank and Cleric as a secondary archetype.
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Auldrakar wrote: »
    he Cleric & Tank Secondary Archetypes will start to become available for all 8 PRIMARY

    My interpretation is this.


    That was my interpretation as well, but I was wondering if we ever got a definitive answer on this, and if not, could we get 1 Intrepid... Please?
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Agreed, all classes will access secondary Archtype Tank and Cleric.
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 3
    Auldrakar wrote: »
    I.e does it mean that the Tank Primary archetype, and the Cleric Primary archetype will start getting access to many of the 8 Secondary archetypes

    Hmmm, I read it as this one.
    I figured they'd want to see more data on the Summoner and Rogue before they start adding augments. Just made more sense that they'd be adding the first augments to the archetypes that have been out the longest and likely already have the most test data.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


    giphy-downsized-large.gif?cid=b603632fp2svffcmdi83yynpfpexo413mpb1qzxnh3cei0nx&ep=v1_gifs_gifId&rid=giphy-downsized-large.gif&ct=s
  • AuldrakarAuldrakar Member, Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Auldrakar wrote: »
    I.e does it mean that the Tank Primary archetype, and the Cleric Primary archetype will start getting access to many of the 8 Secondary archetypes

    Hmmm, I read it as this one.
    I figured they'd want to see more data on the Summoner and Rogue before they start adding augments. Just made more sense that they'd be adding the first augments to the archetypes that have been out the longest and likely already have the most test data.

    That's an interesting point, that they might want Rogue/Summoner more fleshed out before adding augments to them.

    I think most people assumed that it would be the other way around, because it makes sense to spread things out more evenly among the classes.

    I could see them doing it either way, but I'm shocked that they wrote it so vague and never once offered any clarification on this.

    MAYBE they're keeping their options open. lol
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I figured they'd want to see more data on the Summoner and Rogue before they start adding augments. Just made more sense that they'd be adding the first augments to the archetypes that have been out the longest and likely already have the most test data.

    The idea that two of the classes are going to get access to expanded options before the rest of the classes is wild to me.

    It just seems unfair. Everyone is going to be tank and cleric if that's the case.
    TVMenSP.png
    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • AuldrakarAuldrakar Member, Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I figured they'd want to see more data on the Summoner and Rogue before they start adding augments. Just made more sense that they'd be adding the first augments to the archetypes that have been out the longest and likely already have the most test data.

    The idea that two of the classes are going to get access to expanded options before the rest of the classes is wild to me.

    It just seems unfair. Everyone is going to be tank and cleric if that's the case.

    I agree, but maybe they want us to just play Clerics and Tanks for a while. I think Intrepid (since it's a testing environment) should be given a wide latitude in terms of what content they roll out, and when.

    That said, I do agree with your basic premise that it'd be better for the playerbase if they implemented that way, making Cleric and Tank available to all 8 Primaries.
  • RocketFarmerRocketFarmer Member, Alpha Two
    Tank secondary and Cleric secondary archetypes will be available for all eight primary archetypes. Appears they want to test two of the more common secondaries, other than Bard. It’s actually a little worse for those playing Tank or Cleric primary archetypes because they either go Tank/Tank, Tank Cleric, Cleric/ Cleric or Cleric/Tank. In other words more of what you already are or one option to augment to something different. Not sure how many skills that affects, thought they indicated 5. That would be 40 new skill augments, some flavors and others new skills. Think Cleric will the more popular option as players will want some healing to sustain.
  • AuldrakarAuldrakar Member, Alpha Two
    Tank secondary and Cleric secondary archetypes will be available for all eight primary archetypes.

    OK, but citation needed.

    Did they actually confirm this to be the case, or are you engaging in speculation?
  • Well we CAN be assureed that

    Cleric/Cleric High Priest
    Cleric/Tank Apostle
    Tank/Tank Guardian
    Tank/Cleric Paladin

    Will all be come available
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Lodrig wrote: »
    Well we CAN be assureed that

    Cleric/Cleric High Priest
    Cleric/Tank Apostle
    Tank/Tank Guardian
    Tank/Cleric Paladin

    Will all be come available

    It certainly makes more 'sense' for it to be Tank Secondary and Cleric Secondary. These are among the easiest things to work out the broad concepts of, but might take a longer time to balance. They're a good foundation, too.

    It would also ease some of the 'strain' on smaller groups trying to do certain content, even if they don't change the level that secondary Archetypes become available.

    And ofc, if they do change the level of that, it's still relatively easy to deal with 'This Ranger can pull more hate' and 'this Ranger can heal' and 'This Bard can heal a bit more'/'this Bard can give additional defense buffs' or whatever.

    "Some Tanks can summon now, sorry Rangers, y'all have to stay the same until later" just seems so much less likely to me.

    (But no, to OP, we don't have any direct clarification yet)
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I figured they'd want to see more data on the Summoner and Rogue before they start adding augments. Just made more sense that they'd be adding the first augments to the archetypes that have been out the longest and likely already have the most test data.

    The idea that two of the classes are going to get access to expanded options before the rest of the classes is wild to me.

    It just seems unfair. Everyone is going to be tank and cleric if that's the case.

    It's an Alpha for testing purposes. It isn't about "fair".

    Why do augments for everybody when you might have errors or mistakes? Do it on a few, see how they go, and then roll it out to the others. That's how I'd be doing it, anyway.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


    giphy-downsized-large.gif?cid=b603632fp2svffcmdi83yynpfpexo413mpb1qzxnh3cei0nx&ep=v1_gifs_gifId&rid=giphy-downsized-large.gif&ct=s
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @daveywavey

    I don’t enjoy disagreeing with you, but I honestly believe that better long-term data can be collected in a fair environment.

    I’m not suggesting that the game needs to be 100% balanced at all times, but maintaining fairness as a priority, even in a test environment, should yield more accurate data about what to expect in the live game.
    TVMenSP.png
    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • AuldrakarAuldrakar Member, Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    It's an Alpha for testing purposes. It isn't about "fair".
    Vhaeyne wrote: »

    I honestly believe that better long-term data can be collected in a fair environment.

    I’m not suggesting that the game needs to be 100% balanced at all times, but maintaining fairness as a priority, even in a test environment, should yield more accurate data about what to expect in the live game.


    Well, whichever it is, the biggest surprise of this thread is that it's managed to garner this much attention and posts from the community, and not a single dev has come in to quickly correct the record, and let us know which one it is in one quick sentence.

    I thought the devs/community managers were much more active on these forums, but they seem to have forgotten it exists. :D
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Auldrakar wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    It's an Alpha for testing purposes. It isn't about "fair".
    Vhaeyne wrote: »

    I honestly believe that better long-term data can be collected in a fair environment.

    I’m not suggesting that the game needs to be 100% balanced at all times, but maintaining fairness as a priority, even in a test environment, should yield more accurate data about what to expect in the live game.


    Well, whichever it is, the biggest surprise of this thread is that it's managed to garner this much attention and posts from the community, and not a single dev has come in to quickly correct the record, and let us know which one it is in one quick sentence.

    I thought the devs/community managers were much more active on these forums, but they seem to have forgotten it exists. :D

    Nah, this is normal, they know we're used to this.

    I can just say I've definitely worked in/with companies who would explicitly choose not to clarify something like this, under these conditions, with pretty solid (if frustrating) reasoning for that. Hopefully you still get the clarification, though, someone usually figures out a way to ask or it gets noted to be addressed somewhere.

    Watch out for Steven's next interview with one of the game's Content Creators, maybe someone will get it into their question slate, if it doesn't get answered here.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • AuldrakarAuldrakar Member, Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    I can just say I've definitely worked in/with companies who would explicitly choose not to clarify something like this, under these conditions, with pretty solid (if frustrating) reasoning for that.

    I don't get it, what's the reason for intentionally not clarifying it?
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Auldrakar wrote: »
    Azherae wrote: »
    I can just say I've definitely worked in/with companies who would explicitly choose not to clarify something like this, under these conditions, with pretty solid (if frustrating) reasoning for that.

    I don't get it, what's the reason for intentionally not clarifying it?

    The short answer is that 'it boosts engagement'. Having people with relatively lower expectations have something to talk about and speculate on, is sometimes more useful than clarifying. When you clarify something like this, it's 'over'. One set of people is 'happy' and moves on, another set is 'angry' and also moves on, but the discourse doesn't continue, reaching the eyes of more people who are on either side (or just mostly neutral).

    In a community setting, more activity on forums, as long as it isn't too hostile or negative to developers, generally is treated as a positive in my limited experience, so the idea would be to leave certain things vague because they 'don't matter'. Foot-in-the-door tactics somewhat, too.

    You'll get the people who are sure they'll get to be Tank/Fighter or Cleric/Rogue who are really hype for this, and on the other side, a pile of Necromancers (Summoner/Cleric) who have been waiting around for years.

    If you say nothing, neither of these groups is disappointed early, but the actual 'loss of interest' from people who want clarification, is often low.
    ♪ One Gummy Fish, two Gummy Fish, Red Gummy Fish, Blue Gummy Fish
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Auldrakar wrote: »
    Well, whichever it is, the biggest surprise of this thread is that it's managed to garner this much attention and posts from the community, and not a single dev has come in to quickly correct the record, and let us know which one it is in one quick sentence.

    I thought the devs/community managers were much more active on these forums, but they seem to have forgotten it exists. :D

    I took a break from the forums between A1 and a2. The DEVs feel less active on here since I came back.

    It would be nice to see them again. I miss seeing that Picard profile pic drop into a thread and clarify things.
    TVMenSP.png
    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited December 5
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    I figured they'd want to see more data on the Summoner and Rogue before they start adding augments. Just made more sense that they'd be adding the first augments to the archetypes that have been out the longest and likely already have the most test data.

    The idea that two of the classes are going to get access to expanded options before the rest of the classes is wild to me.

    It just seems unfair. Everyone is going to be tank and cleric if that's the case.

    I see it the other way around.

    Tank and cleric augments for everyone. NOT tank and cleric being the only ones to get secondaries.

    As far as confirmation think the whole thread is speculation so far.

    Fairness has nothing to do with anything. Nothing in life is fair.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • AuldrakarAuldrakar Member, Alpha Two
    edited December 5
    It just seems unfair. Everyone is going to be tank and cleric if that's the case.

    I see it the other way around.

    Tank and cleric augments for everyone. NOT tank and cleric being the only ones to get secondaries.

    As far as confirmation think the whole thread is speculation so far.

    You're akshully agreeing w/ him, fyi.

    The general consensus is people want Tank/Cleric Secondaries introduced for all 8 Primaries, only one person so far had the opposite opinion on the matter.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Auldrakar wrote: »
    It just seems unfair. Everyone is going to be tank and cleric if that's the case.

    I see it the other way around.

    Tank and cleric augments for everyone. NOT tank and cleric being the only ones to get secondaries.

    As far as confirmation think the whole thread is speculation so far.

    You're akshully agreeing w/ him, fyi.

    The general consensus is people want Tank/Cleric Secondaries introduced for all 8 Primaries, only one person so far had the opposite opinion on the matter.

    Question.

    How would they introduce cleric/tank secondaries for all eight before we have seen all 8?
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • AuldrakarAuldrakar Member, Alpha Two
    Question.

    How would they introduce cleric/tank secondaries for all eight before we have seen all 8?

    They're not introducing Secondaries til Phase 3. We're only missing 2 primaries atm, Rogue and Summoner. Rogue will likely be in the PTS by Phase 2 Day 1, and in A2 sometime in January.

    Summoner will be in Phase 3, and almost certainly enter Phase 3 before any Secondaries do.

    So, they're putting in the final 2 Primary Archetypes before they put in the Secondaries, is the short answer. After Summoner is in, Secondaries will be the next step.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I don't see the fuss. We getting more. They will tell us info when they are ready and we are here to test what they give us when IS needs it tested. My guess this will be a big update when we get Secondary Classes. Why easter egg anything?
  • AuldrakarAuldrakar Member, Alpha Two
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    I don't see the fuss. We getting more. They will tell us info when they are ready and we are here to test what they give us when IS needs it tested. My guess this will be a big update when we get Secondary Classes. Why easter egg anything?

    Nanfoodle my good man, it''s not too much to ask for them to give us clarification on what they mean by Cleric & Tank Secondaries. One sentence of clarification is all that we are asking for.

    There's no easter egg, they already revealed it. They just weren't clear in their wording, that's it.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Auldrakar wrote: »
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    I don't see the fuss. We getting more. They will tell us info when they are ready and we are here to test what they give us when IS needs it tested. My guess this will be a big update when we get Secondary Classes. Why easter egg anything?

    Nanfoodle my good man, it''s not too much to ask for them to give us clarification on what they mean by Cleric & Tank Secondaries. One sentence of clarification is all that we are asking for.

    There's no easter egg, they already revealed it. They just weren't clear in their wording, that's it.

    I get asking but this thread is not fresh. Some posts are upset we have not gotten an answer. That's what I don't agree with. Ask away but don't get upset you don't get an answer. Especially when one has a date on it.
  • AuldrakarAuldrakar Member, Alpha Two
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    I get asking but this thread is not fresh. Some posts are upset we have not gotten an answer. That's what I don't agree with. Ask away but don't get upset you don't get an answer. Especially when one has a date on it.

    Well, to be fair, you resurrected it this morning. I have a preference, but would be okay with either answer, I was just looking for some clarity.
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