Gear adjustements are MUCH BETTER now! (but still not enough)

All the nerfs to gear are definetly a move in the right direction! 100x better then before patch... but its still not enough,

PvP TTK is still 2 to 3 seconds between DPS classes, and PVE is still way too easy because offensive stats are way too strong compared to defensive stats, we ran Tumok and Firebrand today with no issues at all, no one has legendaries its all green and blue pieces, we killed the bosses quickly enough not to worry about most mechanics, items are just way too powerful especially for early levels and the same issue will CONTINUE to scale up unless the team reworks the offensive stats and how strong item scaling is,

I want to refer to this post I made back in Oct all the reasons and arguments why I feel like developers should decrease character powers even more are there especially for PvP https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/61517/last-try-developers-please-consider-a-ttk-balance-pass-before-25th#latest

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Nathariel

Liniker wrote: »

All the nerfs to gear are definetly a move in the right direction! 100x better then before patch... but its still not enough,

PvP TTK is still 2 to 3 seconds between DPS classes, and PVE is still way too easy because offensive stats are way too strong compared to defensive stats, we ran Tumok and Firebrand today with no issues at all, no one has legendaries its all green and blue pieces, we killed the bosses quickly enough not to worry about most mechanics, items are just way too powerful especially for early levels and the same issue will CONTINUE to scale up unless the team reworks the offensive stats and how strong item scaling is,

I want to refer to this post I made back in Oct all the reasons and arguments why I feel like developers should decrease character powers even more are there especially for PvP https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/61517/last-try-developers-please-consider-a-ttk-balance-pass-before-25th#latest

the problem is not change, because they neft atk and defence stat, so you have less defence than before so you die near in the same time.
they must calibrate again, but they must find solution also for the crafting system.

nanfoodle

I would like to see PvP have gear be more towards the skill side then gear 30% power should be where gear sits for hard core PvP. Anything north of 40% makes it hard for people to defend themselves from top geared players. I personally like it when a top geared player needs to think against any player of the same level.

Liniker

nanfoodle wrote: »

I would like to see PvP have gear be more towards the skill side then gear 30% power should be where gear sits for hard core PvP. Anything north of 40% makes it hard for people to defend themselves from top geared players. I personally like it when a top geared player needs to think against any player of the same level.

this was their original intention that was previously mentioned, I'd love that... unfortunately, they went for 500% lol

LeonaEvangelica

This was a significantly good update for the current quality of the game, but I still believe there’s much more to be done. The game’s TTK (time-to-kill) is still low and needs to be balanced. After all, there’s hardly any merit in a PvP where you win against your opponent simply by pressing buttons faster and making them disappear.

Obviously, there are people who prefer this style of combat, but it’s not something that fits the proposal of Ashes.
An open-world PvP game where you lose part of your resources upon death, along with gained XP, is not the right setting for combat where someone can be killed using just three skills.

I deeply appreciate the new update to the items, but I kindly ask you to pay special attention to the combat mechanics.

Imnotkio

I agree. It was a move in the right direction for sure. But I also think it's not enough

Right now a legendary piece is ~90% better than a common gear (i.e. almost double the stats). It was lot more than that before this nerf. If you think of a scenario like 6~12 months into the game launch, players will be max level with a bunch of legendary gear, he will be what? 20x stronger than a guy that just reached max level and got all white lvl 50 gear? How will he be able to compete? When will a new player be able to participate in PVP content alongside older players?

Not to mention the offensive vs defensive scaling. Right now, the game trends towards an even lower TTK. Players with legendary lvl 20 weapons can kill a guy with blue legendary gear in like 5 seconds. A lvl 25 with legendary gear will one shot lvl 19 players that didn't equip lvl 20 gear yet. This same lvl 25 will participate in a node war where the lvl 19 has no choice but to fight this lvl 25. How will this work realistically? What will be new players' retention rate when they are just one-shotted or killed in 3 seconds every time they try to fight in an open-world PVP event scenario (caravans, node wars, node sieges, guild wars, etc)?

On the PvE side, I don't think the issue is the power scaling or the TTK. I think TTK in PvE is fine. I think the biggest issue is the 0 to 100 pve design where mobs don't do any damage at all to the party until they do a mechanic that one-shots people. It's a weird scenario where you're on autopilot for most of the fight and from time to time need to react to a big mechanic and go back to autopilot.

My suggestion would be:

Decrease base HP stat for 3-star mobs, decrease offensive stat scaling on gear so you keep PvE TTK around the same but increase pvp TTK, and then make it so mobs are more of a constant pressure encounter rather than a 0 to 100 scenario.

For the gear power issue, I would add more situational benefits rather than just a straight-up base stat increase. Something like "this weapon gives 20% extra damage to targets that are bleeding" instead of "300 more weapon power", or even something like BG3 and dnd itemization like "10% chance of proccing X buff, while this buff is active you can cast one spell for free with max benefits regardless of resource or cooldown. Once you do you can't receive this buff for the next 20 seconds". Stuff like this increases your situational power and adds a skill ceiling to your character without doing ridiculous power scaling

But aside from all that, I think intrepid is on the right direction with this change, and I just think you need to keep going that direction. Great job!

Malva

I agree, certainly the change is in the right direction.
Higher TTK is much better.

lucio125

Agreeded

Malva

I agree, certainly the change is in the right direction.
Higher TTK is much better.

lucio125

You're right. No one likes to be blown up and not understand from where.

kadimir

Yeah but the average player will not be in whites.

If you look at a mix of green/blue it probably is closer to 40% from the median.

Gearing full legendary is exponentially more effort than a green/blue.

If the players don't accept that crafted should be the baseline than they haven't been reading the writing on the wall.

As far as the TTK, what classes? Before nerfing gear further might want to make sure that every dps class is killing each other in 2-3 seconds.

If not equally geared, who cares? It's an mmorpg not an esports title. You have to grind for gear, it should be good.

Chicago

I think they need to re work classes not just nerf stats, even with the nerf the ttk is under 10 seconds for most duels in blues, even classic wow had a more balanced PvP system, imo add a /duel, gather the data, and start doing some tuning based on the results

Uncommon Sense

GW2 gear scaling is vastly better. I don't think the stat power creep goes more than 25% from same level common white label gear.

I'd prefer to see TTK around the 10-15sec mark.

Itzme

Disagree, changes made made combat feel underwhelming and less enjoyable. IMO it's the stat nerfs, but could be in combination with the elite buffs as well.

Grouping and partying with greens and blues the combat felt great, it was engaging, you felt like you could do much more than what you can do now. A bad pull was salvageable.

Now, if you aren't wearing the high end crafted rarity gear, you don't get any of that feeling. That gear isn't' on 90% of the player base. So this feeling has been removed from the majority.

Did the rarity power spikes need adjusted, yes. But I think the lower end gear was good were it was at. IMO, tighten the gap on the heroic thru legendary gains. The leveling up process is supposed to be fun and engaging. It is no longer that. Everyone decided to log early and call it because no one was having fun. This coming from someone that has well over 100+ levels in this alpha so far. It's a bit concerning.

Nathariel

First I’m a crafter.
Then, it’s true, before the scaling of item was too high, in most of the game, to increse the ttk the damage in pvp is reduce, you must balance pvp and pve. The pg has less life of the moster you can’t have a balace between pvp or pve, if you nerf all the damage the poeple can’t even more make pve content. I think the reduce damage in pvp can be a good solution.
Now there are a new problem, the difference between the quality of the items is very low tha give no meaning to craft them. A green lvl 20 weapon is more strong of any legendary weapon of lvl 10. We can’t craft lvl 20 items, even you don’t wipe we need another month or 2 to can craft lvl 20 item because we must upgrade all the building.
There are no reason to craft, player can found more fast better item. Why spent weeks to craft item that anyone will use bacause the found better? No meaming and not tell is a end game part i tell no, how i can pay all the craft if all the stuff i craft are useless?!? With the wipe the city will start at lvl 0, when the city will be lvl 3 most of the people will be lvl 14/17 and you can craft only lvl 0 items, to creatr apprendice station will ask another month and most of the people will be 20/25, and now you can craft lvl 10 item useless, if there are no reason to craft except mount or food or potion maybe most of the gather and crafter will no spend time to build the city and also the time to evolve the city will be more long.
You are try to resolve the problem of the pvp but for now because you reduce the damage, and you redure also the defence the ttk is always too low. But sure the think that you have done is destroy the crafting comunity.

Liniker

Nathariel wrote: »

First I’m a crafter.
Then, it’s true, before the scaling of item was too high, in most of the game, to increse the ttk the damage in pvp is reduce, you must balance pvp and pve. The pg has less life of the moster you can’t have a balace between pvp or pve, if you nerf all the damage the poeple can’t even more make pve content. I think the reduce damage in pvp can be a good solution.
Now there are a new problem, the difference between the quality of the items is very low tha give no meaning to craft them. A green lvl 20 weapon is more strong of any legendary weapon of lvl 10. We can’t craft lvl 20 items, even you don’t wipe we need another month or 2 to can craft lvl 20 item because we must upgrade all the building.
There are no reason to craft, player can found more fast better item. Why spent weeks to craft item that anyone will use bacause the found better? No meaming and not tell is a end game part i tell no, how i can pay all the craft if all the stuff i craft are useless?!? With the wipe the city will start at lvl 0, when the city will be lvl 3 most of the people will be lvl 14/17 and you can craft only lvl 0 items, to creatr apprendice station will ask another month and most of the people will be 20/25, and now you can craft lvl 10 item useless, if there are no reason to craft except mount or food or potion maybe most of the gather and crafter will no spend time to build the city and also the time to evolve the city will be more long.
You are try to resolve the problem of the pvp but for now because you reduce the damage, and you redure also the defence the ttk is always too low. But sure the think that you have done is destroy the crafting comunity.

you shouldn't be wasting VALUABLE legendary mats to craft lvl 10 or 20 gear regardless

just because you CAN it doesn't mean you SHOULD and it definetly doesnt mean it should be viable either, it makes zero sense... "but why allow it if its not worth doing"

Ashes is a game of decision making... you CAN play a tank with cloth gear using wand as a weapon.... is it viable? worth it? hell no, but you still can make that stupid decision if you want to lol

find out the min maxes, plan your crafting, be smart, start with greens at lvl 10, purple for lvl 30, and save mats for end game thats how the system should work

or just waste legendary mats doing lvl 10 stuff..
just dont expect it to be worth it it would be impossible to balance

Gizban

Am I the only one who thinks it's silly to have lvl 10 legendary gear?!

Liniker

pyreal wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks it's silly to have lvl 10 legendary gear?!

no lol I like that the option is there, but I 100% expect it to be silly and a waste of rescources to make

Nathariel

Liniker wrote: »

pyreal wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks it's silly to have lvl 10 legendary gear?!

no lol I like that the option is there, but I 100% expect it to be silly and a waste of rescources to make

\i see you know 0 from the crafting so before talking try the crafting. The material for lvl 10 item are different from mat for lvl 20 items. WE CAN'T CRAFT LVL 20 ITEM, after the wipe we will can do lvl 20 ITEM after about 4 month, when all the city will have all the journey workbench , after 4 month all the player will be at max lvl and most of the people will have rare o better item.

Before came to talk about thing you never try spend 80 hour on crafting and you will see how many time you need to craft. So there are no waste of resource because the material is different this show again how much you don;t know about the crafting and you only play to kill monster.

Imnotkio

Itzme wrote: »

Disagree, changes made made combat feel underwhelming and less enjoyable. IMO it's the stat nerfs, but could be in combination with the elite buffs as well.

It is the combination of both. But that doesn't mean the stat nerf was bad. You're talking about this from a PvE perspective, grinding elites. Elites are now an even bigger damage sponge and take longer to kill, which is bad. But for PvP the stat nerfs were necessary, and for world bosses designed for 40 people the bosses are still easy and you can ignore mechanics and complete the bosses without losses.

This game is designed to work with 1 stat system for every type of content. When changes in this stat system occur, it will affect all PvP and PvE content. It doesn't mean you need to reverse the change when 1 of the content type becomes bad because of that stat change. You can fix the elite issue without reverting the stat changes. But you can't work with PvP with the way stats were before (they aren't even ideal yet with the changes).

Chicago

Liniker wrote: »

Nathariel wrote: »

First I’m a crafter.
Then, it’s true, before the scaling of item was too high, in most of the game, to increse the ttk the damage in pvp is reduce, you must balance pvp and pve. The pg has less life of the moster you can’t have a balace between pvp or pve, if you nerf all the damage the poeple can’t even more make pve content. I think the reduce damage in pvp can be a good solution.
Now there are a new problem, the difference between the quality of the items is very low tha give no meaning to craft them. A green lvl 20 weapon is more strong of any legendary weapon of lvl 10. We can’t craft lvl 20 items, even you don’t wipe we need another month or 2 to can craft lvl 20 item because we must upgrade all the building.
There are no reason to craft, player can found more fast better item. Why spent weeks to craft item that anyone will use bacause the found better? No meaming and not tell is a end game part i tell no, how i can pay all the craft if all the stuff i craft are useless?!? With the wipe the city will start at lvl 0, when the city will be lvl 3 most of the people will be lvl 14/17 and you can craft only lvl 0 items, to creatr apprendice station will ask another month and most of the people will be 20/25, and now you can craft lvl 10 item useless, if there are no reason to craft except mount or food or potion maybe most of the gather and crafter will no spend time to build the city and also the time to evolve the city will be more long.
You are try to resolve the problem of the pvp but for now because you reduce the damage, and you redure also the defence the ttk is always too low. But sure the think that you have done is destroy the crafting comunity.

you shouldn't be wasting VALUABLE legendary mats to craft lvl 10 or 20 gear regardless

just because you CAN it doesn't mean you SHOULD and it definetly doesnt mean it should be viable either, it makes zero sense... "but why allow it if its not worth doing"

Ashes is a game of decision making... you CAN play a tank with cloth gear using wand as a weapon.... is it viable? worth it? hell no, but you still can make that stupid decision if you want to lol

find out the min maxes, plan your crafting, be smart, start with greens at lvl 10, purple for lvl 30, and save mats for end game thats how the system should work

or just waste legendary mats doing lvl 10 stuff..
just dont expect it to be worth it it would be impossible to balance

I mean to be fair alot of the LVL 10 legendary gear mats won't be used in high end legendary gear, what else would you use it for

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