Dear Intrepid, you are unnecessarily killing a lot of people's desire to test the game for you.

Its_Me

Sathrago wrote: »

Let me be clear when I say Narc completely lit the dumpster on fire here, and his use of "doesn't exist" was an absolutely idiotic way to argue this out. He was all over the place and I do not support what he did. With that being said, hear me out.

The whole drama stirred up by narc this time comes from a feeling of being mislead. This happened because the communication around showcases was, at least in my mind, portraying the showcase as the current progress of the development for the game.

The 2 main problem children of this are the desert and the freehold system. We were shown the showcases 2 years ago, and "freeholds/desert" are slated for the start of phase 2. They were given to us TESTERS (I really need to emphasize TESTERS here. its different from a new patch hitting a live game.) in a state that didn't live up to the expectations that their showcases set as the bare minimum with a 2 year gap of seemingly no development put into these features.

That explains why people are mad, but the root fault is intrepid not being clear that these specific things were not as far a long as the showcases, we got to hear reasoning finally from a pissed off Steven last night, but that stuff should have been said to the people that are paying to test the alpha for intrepid. Its an open development game and this sort of thing seems reasonable and needed to be articulated.

The showcases over the years have never been described as "vertical slices" or "proof of concept". It was always, "hey this is what we have now, tell us what you like and dislike." I am para-phrasing here.

Now I know the other side of this issue thinks its not a big deal and people are too emotional, yeah well you just have a different thinking process and you cannot deny what I have laid out. There are too many people that took those showcases as "current progress" when they were shown and this DID influence their decision to purchase a key as well as singing the praises of Intrepid's seemingly rapid-fire development.

So in conclusion I would like more communication when big features like this are going to come out in states that do not represent the original showcase of said features. Tell us why it has to be rolled out in pieces like the freehold. Tell us why the desert needed to release with nothing but mobs and nodes pasted in it for testing purposes. You don't need to give dates for when the rest comes out, just explain why it needs to be torn apart and put back together as you introduce it into phase 2.

People need to hear this reasoning otherwise they will look back at those previous showcases and future ones with extreme skepticism.

What are you wanting in the desert that is not there yet, are you wanting the statue that Narc told you should be there? It is not baren as narc lied about, there are trees (albeit they are bugged at the moment), cacti, grass, plenty of mobs to kill, ore to mine, gems to mine, functioning nodes you can go to for storage, auction ect.

Go watch the video I linked where a lot of narc's claims are debunked, you appear to still be regurgitating narc's crap.

Freeholds.... Let me guess, you do not own a freehold either, just like you have not been to the desert but felt qualified to comment that it was baren?

You can plant on your freehold and people are taking advantage of that currently in game with some bugs centered around acquiring the correct resources from trees. According to Steven when the correct building is upgraded in your node, you can start adding your chickens and pigs ect.

There is a difference between suggesting that not all features might yet be implemented (or even working correctly) and that the freehold does nothing. Claiming something doesn't do anything because you do not understand or heard some hearsay is silly. It is like saying there are not higher tier mounts in game because you do not have the leveled profession to tame one.

Otr

Sathrago wrote: »

Its_Me wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

if you read my post you would know whether I went to the desert. Also, my mind has been changed as new evidence came out. At the time I didn't see a reason for narc to flat out lie about what he was showing and I still agree with the underlying cause of this entire issue as detailed in the post above yours.

Narc was wrong to make that video. That does not mean that the cause of this is not there.

That was my point, you have not even been to the desert and came here to spread the propaganda that the desert is baren.

Someone attempted to explain to you how this was inaccurate and you refused to see the point and focus on the desert still being baren (which it is not) stating: 'this is not a good thing'.

Narc was not wrong to make the video, he was wrong for lying and misleading in the video. Claiming Steven stated that he should quit his job was a lie, stating Steven said that he and his followers had mental issues was a lie. The guy stooped to a new level of low during his exit tantrum.

You are drawing away from the core issue that started this all. The important part is the bad communication on intrepids side. I and many others wouldn't have had anything to react to if narc was not, and those around him, under the impression that they were mislead by intrepids communication.

Narc did not handle this well at all. it was a dumpster fire and he couldn't argue the point that needed to be argued when speaking to asmongold. I don't know what's wrong with narc and why he acted this way. He has been a good source of reliable information on ashes since he started and to act like its my fault for trusting that take when the underlying issue we agreed on exists, is just silly.

But you are going to keep harping on the reactions to the reaction right? Or will you actually engage with the core issue that started everything? The milk is spilt and at this point cleaned up. We should figure out who tipped it in the first place and how to make sure it doesn't happen again.

A comment on youtube said that Narc analyzed in his stream after the interview/discussion facts he mentioned.
I am watching the vod and from his perspective things things make more sense.
But I realize how this misunderstanding happened.

Wiki helps yet again. Below this picture is stated
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alpha-2_phase-2#/media/File:8.Phase_2.jpg

Doesn't mean all of the things we list as part of those phases are going to be at the start of the phase. It's what we intend to launch during the phase.[3] – Steven Sharif
[3] is a reference to a livestream from November 27, 2024

In Narc's stream I seen him analyzing each point on that picture and all except 3 of them "doesn't exist".
So he expected these features to be present from the start while Steven said yet again to Asmond that these features will be added over the next 5 months because Alpha 2 just started.

Now, if I would be a new customer and I would pay 110$, I would honestly not care if that desert part is in the game or not right now because I would be too busy leveling up in the starting area and then following the crowd and going where everyone goes.

Narc said a few times in the interview with Asmond that Alpha 2 (this desert "expansion") was sold for 110$ but I see actually this as a 10$ cheaper access to what A2 phase1 got. Just that they got this access 2 months later. And they rush right now there, they will see a desert biome, some creatures and 3 nodes already leveled up to lvl 3, with players hoping to get more citizens to vote there.

They will not care that right before the A2-P1 end wipe, the same desert was present and is not really new.
If they based their decision to buy A2-P2 expecting a full desert, then they should have informed themselves better because the desert is not mentioned at all on the store, where they pay
https://ashesofcreation.com/shop/product/alpha-two-second-wave-bundle
On the wiki and on youtube videos yes but I really doubt that this is a case of misleading customers as Narc wants to present it.

It is rather a mistake from his side and desire to have content to present or reason to go away.

I remember he was very desperate when the Alpha 2 launch date was announced one year ago and it was not Q1 2024 as he predicted. He was asking himself what will he do all these months. He ended up saying he will implement some biomes or the entire map himself in Unreal Engine.
I gradually lost interest to watch his videos last year so I cannot say how he did or felt during the year.

But I see he knows in deep detail a lot. And like many knowledgeable people who make few mistakes, when those mistakes happen, they have big consequences. I learned this in a Harry Potter book.

Aszkalon

Otr wrote: »

Doesn't mean all of the things we list as part of those phases are going to be at the start of the phase. It's what we intend to launch during the phase.[3] – Steven Sharif
[3] is a reference to a livestream from November 27, 2024

Indeed ... ...

Damn i need to read these Roadmap-Alpha Moments again.

Noaani

Its_Me wrote: »

I do agree with the suggestion that Narc is using the negative drama to gather viewers and subs (numbers were giving on viewers once drama started) and will also capitalize down the road again with his 'Return to Ashes tour'

Yeah, this.

I don't take any interaction between YouTubers or Twitch streamers seriously. The assumption has to be that its a show.

I could also see that Narc is in amposition to do a return to Ashes type thing if the game turns out to be different to what it currently looks, but I doubt it

Keep in mind, the streamer audience for any given game is usually less than 5% of that games player base. Ashes isn't going to be a big enough game to have large streamers playing it.

LordManmode

I honestly wish we had two servers on EU too. Only thing I really miss.
Also I hate that caravans gets destroyed after they have been attacked :P

I kinda like that I see a crowded server. Loth is even feeling kinda dead now around the lionhold area.

ELWOW

Its_Me wrote: »

What are you wanting in the desert that is not there yet, are you wanting the statue that Narc told you should be there? It is not baren as narc lied about, there are trees (albeit they are bugged at the moment), cacti, grass, plenty of mobs to kill, ore to mine, gems to mine, functioning nodes you can go to for storage, auction ect.

Humm, I don't know, people probably want any content in the desert? Not just randomly placed mobs in groups (like a brush to make 5 mobs there, 5 mobs here and it's done). This game is about dungeons, PoI's, grind spots. If you expand to 6k+ players you HAVE TO implement more content, if you don't have more just don't force it. You are just blindfolded or too stupid to understand that Narc shown in this video their Phase 2 Desert Expansion that they announced in their livestream, on their website and on their discord. THIS WAS desert expansion. They didn't add anything new to the desert for phase 2 other than empty sand and copy-pasted nodes. Ore to mine and stuff are copy pasted from Riverlands, we don't have anything new implemented about the desert to make systems works or show us their design about unique resources. If you think placing some mobs or mining spots or trees or whatever are hard in UE5 then you will be happy about updates quality like these. It is 3+ months in and we still didn't get any major update, they were saying that these major updates will be every 6 weeks. What you gonna say in next months if we will still struggle with barely any new things added? Do you realize we will have phase 3 in 4.5 months? It is like another 1.5x time that they had since Alpha Two launch and we don't see any good progress. I can't believe that they have 200+ devs, I would be surprised if they got like 50 devs right now with that pace.

Teyloune

Look, this is an alpha - a real alpha, not some polished marketing build. It's not about delivering tons of content yet; it's about testing systems, fixing bugs, and gathering feedback to build the foundation for the full game.

When you say, "Where’s all the content?" it’s like asking why a house under construction doesn’t have furniture yet. The devs are laying bricks and installing plumbing, not decorating. If content is your main draw, it’s okay to step back and wait for later stages when they’re further along.

But right now, the focus is progress, not perfection. The devs are putting in the work; they’re not holding back some magical vault of content. This is just the reality of game development.

Vhaeyne

@Teyloune

I agree 100%.

I must add that it is crazy that this needs to be said over and over.

I can't recall ever seeing a live stream where Steven has not said:

"This is a true alpha."
"Everything you see can change."
"Do not buy a key if you want to play a game."
"Expect bugs" (Lately)

And yet the from my prospective the "Test" has been more fun than any MMORPG I have played since Wildstar.

I truly think anyone QQing about Ashes has just been ignoring everything Steven has ever said.

ELWOW

Teyloune wrote: »

Look, this is an alpha - a real alpha, not some polished marketing build. It's not about delivering tons of content yet; it's about testing systems, fixing bugs, and gathering feedback to build the foundation for the full game.

When you say, "Where’s all the content?" it’s like asking why a house under construction doesn’t have furniture yet. The devs are laying bricks and installing plumbing, not decorating. If content is your main draw, it’s okay to step back and wait for later stages when they’re further along.

But right now, the focus is progress, not perfection. The devs are putting in the work; they’re not holding back some magical vault of content. This is just the reality of game development.

which systems do you want to test? I barely see any system working or working as intended. They are either placeholders or not working properly. If they want some interest and keep players from dropping these alpha tests they need to implement new POI's frequently. This is not a hard part to do with assets and tools UE5 provide and it will keep us interested while they develop systems. Currently it seems like 180 degree different, we got nothing and they push systems to work while they clearly are not even close to being finished. The best example is newest freehold system which is barely working, player shops barely working (good luck finding something in decent price with 100+ pages of items and without option to search by item).