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Mages with bows.

Hello everyone, I know all archetypes can use any weapons, but I don't like the idea that a mage can use a bow with the same ability as an ranger. It feels weird. I know there is still a long way to the game release but do you think in the final game we'll have the same situation as now where we'll see mages using bows? Ir really feels like out of place in a rol perspective.

Comments

  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    I hope/want that literally every weapon will have both a magical atk option and a physical atk option, not just bows or books.
  • Ludullu wrote: »
    I hope/want that literally every weapon will have both a magical atk option and a physical atk option, not just bows or books.

    Even wands..? Kind of afraid to ask how they would do the physical atk... Unless sharpened or weighed we'd have to, hmm, shov- well, that's getting inappropriate...
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • spawn33spawn33 Member
    edited December 2024
    Ludullu wrote: »
    I hope/want that literally every weapon will have both a magical atk option and a physical atk option, not just bows or books.

    I wish your wish never comes true.
    👀 Fellow AoC waiter who loves to play assassins in mmorpgs. 👀
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Percimes wrote: »
    Ludullu wrote: »
    I hope/want that literally every weapon will have both a magical atk option and a physical atk option, not just bows or books.

    Even wands..? Kind of afraid to ask how they would do the physical atk... Unless sharpened or weighed we'd have to, hmm, shov- well, that's getting inappropriate...

    Not all magic is powered by spells, sometimes magic manipulates the world to attack with physical force. One way would be to make air solid and flinging it. These ideas date back to DnD. Right down to using weapons on different classes. Having a Mage use magic to enchange arrows as they fire them. What do you think a Mage / Ranger or a Ranger / Mage would be like? These systems need to be in place right from level 1 building to something.

    There is limits, like some skills are tied to certain weapons. Can't as a Fighter, you can't spin to win with a wand.
  • nanfoodle wrote: »
    Percimes wrote: »
    Ludullu wrote: »
    I hope/want that literally every weapon will have both a magical atk option and a physical atk option, not just bows or books.

    Even wands..? Kind of afraid to ask how they would do the physical atk... Unless sharpened or weighed we'd have to, hmm, shov- well, that's getting inappropriate...

    Not all magic is powered by spells, sometimes magic manipulates the world to attack with physical force. One way would be to make air solid and flinging it. These ideas date back to DnD. Right down to using weapons on different classes. Having a Mage use magic to enchange arrows as they fire them. What do you think a Mage / Ranger or a Ranger / Mage would be like? These systems need to be in place right from level 1 building to something.

    There is limits, like some skills are tied to certain weapons. Can't as a Fighter, you can't spin to win with a wand.

    Oh yeah, or using the wand to telekinesis-ing / throw objects (from the environment: chairs, rocks, etc.) at a target à la Vader using the Force.
    Could make sense that way too.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Percimes wrote: »
    Even wands..? Kind of afraid to ask how they would do the physical atk... Unless sharpened or weighed we'd have to, hmm, shov- well, that's getting inappropriate...
    POKE DEM BISHES IN THEIR EYES >:)
  • Its kind of weird you don't think a wizard/mage could pick up a bow an use it in a fantasy setting.

    Your concern doesn't make sense logically
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Phase 1 My Bard was a short bow and sword and board. Was allot of fun.
  • Not a fan of it either. The result is something like Guild Wars 2 where every class is a healer. In Ashes case, everyone has a ranged slot so is a hybrid role at a bare minimum. It kills any sense of uniqueness or specialization each archetype should have and you can already see that happening live on the A2 Servers. It would be far better if each base archetype came with a set of usable weapons and more are unlocked depending on the secondary archetype you choose. For ex. a fighter primary can use melee weapons only but can unlock magic weapons with a mage secondary selected.
  • SmileGurneySmileGurney Member, Alpha Two
    Erdun wrote: »
    Hello everyone, I know all archetypes can use any weapons, but I don't like the idea that a mage can use a bow with the same ability as an ranger. It feels weird. I know there is still a long way to the game release but do you think in the final game we'll have the same situation as now where we'll see mages using bows? Ir really feels like out of place in a rol perspective.
    Leave my bard's spellbow alone. Thanks.
    My lungs taste the air of Time,
    Blown past falling sands…
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The physical book is more dumber-er.
    TVMenSP.png
    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    The physical book is more dumber-er.

    Magic can be used to move physical matter. Using magic to do physical damage. Compressed air, rocks and much more. This goes back to DnD. Even things like Star Wars had Jedi and Sith using the force to use physical items to do damage. Over hitting them with the force.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @nanfoodle

    Sure, you can invent any fluff you like to make sense of anything.

    I just think just throwing physical stats on the book is dumb and lazy.

    It could have been like throwing axes or something that is actually physical.
    TVMenSP.png
    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    @nanfoodle

    Sure, you can invent any fluff you like to make sense of anything.

    I just think just throwing physical stats on the book is dumb and lazy.

    It could have been like throwing axes or something that is actually physical.

    QFT
  • nanfoodlenanfoodle Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited January 1
    I think you need to read more fantasy stories it's everywhere. LOTR, wheel of time, DnD, Eragon.

    Edit: it's not much diffence when you have a melee weapon made magically and does magic damage. That's equally the same thing.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    nanfoodle wrote: »
    QFT

    More Dumber-er
    TVMenSP.png
    This is my personal feedback, shared to help the game thrive in its niche.
  • ErdunErdun Member
    Smork1 wrote: »
    Its kind of weird you don't think a wizard/mage could pick up a bow an use it in a fantasy setting.

    Your concern doesn't make sense logically

    It doesn't have sense seeing a mage who is a user of magic arts be as able to a ranger in terms of using a bow. You would expect in logical terms that a ranger is more skilled in using a bow.

    Like Voeltz said: "It kills any sense of uniqueness or specialization each archetype should have"
  • lukedawukelukedawuke Member, Alpha Two
    magical bows and enchanted arrows are cool. you dont have to be a frail white haired wizard with no muscle to use magic
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I loved Bowplar Ranger/Templar. Can't even remember the game though.
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • VolgarisVolgaris Member, Alpha Two
    The power types only being magic and physical really limit the weapons, feels kind of MOBA, simple, plain, ect... A bow with magic power stats will do magic power base damage when shot. Feels a little blasphemous. The real difference is the weapon trees and the attack speeds. So you end up picking a weapon based off the perks you want in the tree and the speed of attacks you want. Or which one is a stat stick. It'd be nice to see attribute requirements, but we'd need selectable attributes for that to matter.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Volgaris wrote: »
    It'd be nice to see attribute requirements, but we'd need selectable attributes for that to matter.

    Can you elaborate here?
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • PodgnilPodgnil Member, Alpha Two
    I wrote it in another thread, I'll repeat it here. Unfortunately, weapons don't feel like weapons at all, they're just another piece of gear with the biggest stat. Weapons don't have an attack type, attack speed, damage... And this leads to tanks running around with wands and mages with bows. That moment when they wanted to give freedom of choice, but in pursuit of stats, it leads to absurdity. Yes, it's possible that some bows can have a magical attack, but it should be part of a very specific build. And not like a bow with mag stats dropped at 290 and any mage drools.
  • VolgarisVolgaris Member, Alpha Two
    Songcaller wrote: »
    Volgaris wrote: »
    It'd be nice to see attribute requirements, but we'd need selectable attributes for that to matter.

    Can you elaborate here?

    I guess think Diablo 1. Or any number of old school RPG.
    To use a Claymore you'd need say 20 points in your strength attribute.

    As it is now when you level you get an ability point. Yay.....lame really. So character customization to tailor to your play style or your chosen RP if you RP and ain't meta chasing has no depth. It's simple, each player will basically be encourage to chase the meta and you'll swap weapons based of your situation, or stats of those weapons. Not bad, just simple.

    You can scale these things out on what matters most. Player skill, character gear, character level, skill tree, weapon tree
    So far skill tree is flat so there's nothing to compare. A lvl 25 mage will have all abilities.
    Player skill can matter, but honstly most pvp is ganking or mob training.
    Character Gear. Probably matters the most. I've decked out a lvl 1 tank with blues and greens and holyballs it was OP at lvl 1.
    Character Level. Matters for sure, but pvp at endgame all levels will be equal. so it's pretty flat too like the tree.

    So what matters for the things you have control over?
    Gear > Player Skill > Weapon Skill > (Skill Tree == Character Level)

    IE. You are what you wear style of game.

    Since you don't select Attributes at level up those are flat too. If you did get to select them then it's another thing you get to control about your character. You can tell a lot about the intended play style of a game based off this. It leans more towards a MOBA IMO than an MMORPG, character progression wise at least. It's shallow, mile wide, inch deep. It's not "bad" there's lots of other things in the game to make up for it. But disappointing to me.

    side note: "Mages with Bows" would be a really cool stringed quartet band name.
  • OrcLuckOrcLuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    If I can use a book in melee I think I will allow mages to use bows. Fair trade.
  • VolgarisVolgaris Member, Alpha Two
    OrcLuck wrote: »
    If I can use a book in melee I think I will allow mages to use bows. Fair trade.

    Lol I never tried that. Does that actually work? It'd be so cool if you smacked them with it.
  • SpifSpif Member, Alpha Two
    All classes can use all weapons. But weapons are limited to auto-attacks and the skill tree passives. All of your class skill don't use a weapon really. So I'd say that weapons are more than stat sticks. The auto attacks and passives are pretty important.

    Letting all classes use all weapons allows for variation on class fantasy. Tanks with sword/shield and magic book for the paladin feel. It also allows physical classes to have a ranged auto-attack AE via a physical spellbook that you just can't get with a bow. Bow and wand auto attacks are single target. All melee weapons are AE so far

    I think it will also be important later on once we can pick secondaries. Mage/Ranger or Mage/Fighter will probably have some synergy with bow.

    There is a downside to being a mage using a bow or a melee using a book. The weapons apply debuffs via passives that are tuned more to their "native" damage type. IE, wands and books can apply volatile, which increases magic damage taken by 15%. Bows apply snare, bleed and wounded I think.
  • a archer mage is an absolute must and should be as skilled as a ranger, the only difference should be how they operate and which skills/spells they have at hand, both should be equally powerful

    nuff said
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
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