Please Delay P3

Im gonna be honest, the vast majority I've seen isn't hyped for P3 Launch and I know many people who dont even wanna play when its launched in August (spare me the its not a game its a test argument).

If you compare P2 to the current Phase 2.5 it was an overall step backwards it was downright terrible to play with the reduced gear drop the inability to craft and the gold inflation (which to some fault is due to the hacking/rmt). This is not a good thing you want people to engage with your game and ideally push the limit to get the best testing results. To clarify I'm not saying "this game sucks" or anything I'm saying that I think they should delay the next Phase further to give themself more time so they can launch with more features ready and especially the Summoner class. They teased a lot of great things in their last Livestream however they are most certainly not ready for a while if they launch into P3 (based on exerpience from the past so far) especially since they announced that Summoner is 2 Months away after Launch, which bummed a lot of people out myself included and makes people not wanna participate in P3 (I am undecieded).

So in the end I do hope that Intreped allows themself for a bit more time at the least til Summoner is ready, since everyone has access to PTR now we have a great testing ground in the meanwhile.

PS: Personally I want 1 Megaserver again it was quite fun to play with everyone across the Globe. (Sorry flat earthers)

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Ludullu

Considering we still don't have dynamic gridding, and I'm almost sure we won't have it by P3 - I'd say we're still in P1 testing. Barely anything of what was planned for P2 is in the game (especially when it comes to systems) and we obviously ain't getting majority of P3 plans on release of that phase.

So, while I agree with a request for delay, I doubt Intrepid can really afford that. They've had issues with being called a scam for years now. They've had multiple delays of multiple things (including this P3 already). If they delay it again, they'll get even more shit poured onto them.

They're in a lose-lose situation. They'll release an incomplete P3 and people will complain. They'll delay P3 - people will complain. I'd say that releasing it would still be marginally better, cause Intrepid would still have the crutch of "it's all an alpha" (no matter how trite that sounds by now), while a delay will just be met with scorn from even outside of the community and for the worst possible reasons.

davenb

I mean many people say stuff on the Internet everytime someone called it a scam it pretty much always gets dismissed as everyone knows its not a scam. I dont understand what you mean they cant afford it, they dont have investors breathing down their neck and being behind schedule is something they certainly/should have planned in their timeline, so I wouldt say its a lose lose, they have been very clear that its an incomplete game and thats fine though when a Phase starts is when the most people engage with it and also where most lose interest and im gonna be honest I didnt saw people complain much about the first P3 Delay. P2.5 was actually quite hype as we got for the first time 1 Megaserver it just played out super poor and I hope they take it to heart

Ludullu

davenb wrote: »

I dont understand what you mean they cant afford it

There's only so much bad press a game can receive before people dismiss it completely. All the friends that I kept inviting and hyping up about Ashes for the past 5 years now laugh at me any time I even mention it.

The broader mmo community considers it a scam, due to how long it's taking. And any new delay is simply more ammo and "proof" for their claims.

And if they have too much of that proof by the time the game releases, all the newcomers will find on google is posts about the somewhat suspicious production of the game.

While releasing P3 "on time" would just upset some hardcore followers of the game, while still keeping them interested in the long run, exactly because all of those people already know that the game is not a scam.

davenb

This no where near the case the "hardcores" are the one that want the delay including me, they are very clear about how its an alpha and not a game that is about to release anything there is no rush and franky let people yapp

Caww

If a competent P3 can not be provided then cancel wipe but make servers 24/7 and update when possible until a wipe really is required.

daveywavey

As much as I'd love my EU server back, I just don't know that it's ready for P3 quite yet.

Noaani

davenb wrote: »

spare me the its not a game its a test argument

No.

This is not the game, you and your friends are not here to play.

This is a test.

If you do not wish to test right now, don't.

You are not supposed to be *hyped* about a test, because a test is not going to always be fun. It is not supposed to always be fun. If it were always fun, it would not be a test.

The reason the test should go ahead when Intrepid are ready for the test to go ahead is because Intrepid need the data they are intended on getting from the test.

You and your friends treating this test like a game and so not being hyped for it does not alter the fact that Intrepid need test data.

Burning out on an early stage test is nothing new. If you aren't wanting to test this time around, it is no great loss.

Take this one off.

davenb

What a silly person you are

effusivemind

when Intrepid suggests summoner will probably be ready around Oct. if history is any indication that likely translates to Dec. or Jan. realistically. delaying P3 by 4-5 months for summoner isn't practical.

there is much more to P3 than summoner

davenb

Its not only for Summoner though, fact is they are behind in schedule (thats fine thats how it goes), they have yet to this date implemented DG which was supposed to be in P2 and many other features and this will be the same case for P3. So point is to delay it til some of them are ready and esp some type of gameplay loop to keep some retention. In P2 we had caravans which was okay but in P2.5 we didnt even had that and thats not a positive thing. They are using the PTR now which is a good thing and can be utilized, for the most part, til P3 is somewhat ready. I could go on but im gonna be honest I have yet to see one argument that goes against it other than people getting upset because they may have taken vacation for the launch but thats an alpha development, might suck but its not a full on launch.

People seem to argue just because they like to argue

Noaani

davenb wrote: »

What a silly person you are

I mean, you are obviously welcome to think that, but keep in mind when you do that I am not the one looking at a test that exists in order to get the game in to an enjoyable state, realizing that I am not enjoying said tests, and asking that they be postponed until the game is in an enjoyable state.

davenb

"To be honest, this is *why* I get in to discussions/debates with people here."
You quite literally argue just to argue, which I don't even mind but at least bring up an actual point to what I said and not this "Its not for you to enjoy nonsense". Otherwise Good Luck on the next Post

Noaani

davenb wrote: »

"To be honest, this is *why* I get in to discussions/debates with people here."
You quite literally argue just to argue, which I don't even mind but at least bring up an actual point to what I said and not this "Its not for you to enjoy nonsense". Otherwise Good Luck on the next Post

That is a mischaractarisation of that statement.

I get in to discussions/debates with people to get results and change. Moreso change in peoples thinking than change in game design, but both have happened.

My point here can be reduced down to one simple notion: running a test in an MMORPG is expensive, if Intrepid are running a test it is because they see value in it. Why should your preference for Intrepid to wait for no good reason take precidence over the value Intrepid assume they will get out of the next test?

You state they should wait for the summoner -but why? It can be added to the test when it is ready. You make statements that things "aren't ready", yet this is a test and things aren't supposed to be ready.

Your arguments boil down to what you want to play, not what Intrepid want to test.

You should stop.

Groggie

I am 100% behind delaying if the Econ changes are not in. I agree with that fully, because that is a huge deal. Im not saying "dont delay, release garbage" either.

However, consider that this "launch" of "P3" is really just "Fresh servers" and "New Alpha testing Build".

Alpha testing is not a theme park, its a construction site. Right now, it IS about breaking things, stress testing systems, and giving real feedback while its still early enough to matter. If we wait for it to be "fun" then really, we are just polishing the floors while the roof's still leaking.

Delays = less data. Less data = more delays and worse game. Every test phase gives Intrepid valuable info, not just buggy stuffs, but player behaviour, balance, econ, etc etc. Pushing back testing because some people are bummed or upset about "its not fun enough" makes no sense from a game development perspective.

Real Testers are WAY better than Hype Tourists. Asking Intrepid to delay to bring in more "hyped" players only really then brings in waves of people who dip out the second things are not shiny and perfect. I'd rather Intrepid keep moving the train forward with dedicated testers who actually understand what an alpha test pre-release build is supposed to be. Intrepid, and this game, needs people to log in when its messy and broken and "not fun", when gear is scarce, when things dont work, when crafting is janky. This is when the best dev work happens, and when the data flows like spice.... And they dont need 10,000 testers, most of whom are here to "have fun" and start whining when things break (which they do, in alpha, and beta testing)

I understand what you are trying to ask for. I just think you are approaching it too much from the position of a Hype Tourist and not enough from a Real Tester.

davenb

"That is a mischaractarisation of that statement.
I get in to discussions/debates with people to get results and change. Moreso change in peoples thinking than change in game design, but both have happened."

Yea no, you argue to argue, you dont even care for the context nor do you care for what Is even stated so again bring up an actual point or leave it at that.

"My point here can be reduced down to one simple notion: running a test in an MMORPG is expensive, if Intrepid are running a test it is because they see value in it. Why should your preference for Intrepid to wait for no good reason take precidence over the value Intrepid assume they will get out of the next test?"

Now who is mischaractarisation what I said, also your statement about costs makes no sense? Delaying a Phase does not mean delaying the overall testphase the "costs" remain the same/similar, what I said has nothing to do with them pouring more money into their project which Im gonna suspect you are not even familiar with? Granted there could be more servercosts due to more server workers needed to due high capacity of players, which I reckon is in their interest. There is also the PTR running which yes costs more money however that does not conflict with anything what I have said.

"You state they should wait for the summoner -but why? It can be added to the test when it is ready. You make statements that things "aren't ready", yet this is a test and things aren't supposed to be ready."

Now this is cherry picking, I said many features which granted I do not spelled out one by one, since I tried to keep myself short. I am not gonna reiterate myself as I already stated it however as I posted this in Discord and on Reddit as well you are welcome there to follow the discussion.

My "Argument" boils down to that I ask them to delay as I dont see them not being ready to start a new phase, if they are then great, I dont believe but obviously I cant see behind the curtain, saying that is ok allowing themself some time however is hardly controvercial and trying to dispute that is comically nonsense.

You should take your own advise and just stop.

davenb

Groggie wrote: »

I am 100% behind delaying if the Econ changes are not in. I agree with that fully, because that is a huge deal. Im not saying "dont delay, release garbage" either.

However, consider that this "launch" of "P3" is really just "Fresh servers" and "New Alpha testing Build".

Alpha testing is not a theme park, its a construction site. Right now, it IS about breaking things, stress testing systems, and giving real feedback while its still early enough to matter. If we wait for it to be "fun" then really, we are just polishing the floors while the roof's still leaking.

Delays = less data. Less data = more delays and worse game. Every test phase gives Intrepid valuable info, not just buggy stuffs, but player behaviour, balance, econ, etc etc. Pushing back testing because some people are bummed or upset about "its not fun enough" makes no sense from a game development perspective.

Real Testers are WAY better than Hype Tourists. Asking Intrepid to delay to bring in more "hyped" players only really then brings in waves of people who dip out the second things are not shiny and perfect. I'd rather Intrepid keep moving the train forward with dedicated testers who actually understand what an alpha test pre-release build is supposed to be. Intrepid, and this game, needs people to log in when its messy and broken and "not fun", when gear is scarce, when things dont work, when crafting is janky. This is when the best dev work happens, and when the data flows like spice.... And they dont need 10,000 testers, most of whom are here to "have fun" and start whining when things break (which they do, in alpha, and beta testing)

I understand what you are trying to ask for. I just think you are approaching it too much from the position of a Hype Tourist and not enough from a Real Tester.

Great feedback, Im gonna be honest "Alpha testing is not a themepark" and whatnot is just semantics but I agree although the point is not to wait til its "fun" its to where we have something actually to test, when a new Phase launches you have the most player densitity and my request is there to retain them in order to get more "testing done" I am sure you understand what I mean by that.

"Delay = less-data" I dont fully agree on, you have still the live server and the ptr where you potentially could do those tests, obviously those tests that needed a higher capacity could not be done, though I dont think they are in need to rush those. Just wanna to point out that it reinforces my argument.

"Real Testers are WAY better than Hype Tourists" This is where I dont agree on, any form of Tester is valuable in my eyes even the "tourist" it justs points out where and when people lose interests, though I understand what you mean and as Real tester I wanna keep people on the servers and not leaving immediatly which means features that roll out in the future doesnt get the attention that it could. Lets take dynamic lawless zones for example which comes at some point in P3 if the server died out like it does currently you dont have enough people to test the friction within those zones, just to give an example.

If I were to make the choice I would launch in P3 with the new Economy System in Place and the Nodes System functional with Vassal Nodes, Node Deaths and so on, also of course Summoner which people seem hung on, I tried using it as reference point but yea. Good Feedback

Noaani

davenb wrote: »

Yea no, you argue to argue, you dont even care for the context nor do you care for what Is even stated so again bring up an actual point or leave it at that.

No, if this were the case, I would be involved in far more threads than I am. I pick and chose which discussions I get involved in, based on if I think there is a valid point to make that isn't already being made.

We already know there are economic changes to this next beta phase from what 2.5 had. We know that because 2.5 was essentially a surprise beta phase, and the econ team basically threw together something just to see how players would react.

Players reacted badly, they are aware of that. There was never any real intention for the 2.5 economy to be how things are with the live game - it was literally just a test to see how players would react. This is what testing is for.

However, the fact that there will be economic changes in phase three compared to 2.5 doesn't mean the economy will be "fixed", it will just be different.

While the summoner may not be ready there are plenty of other things that will be. There are fixes to the client, the server and the network that all need to be tested. There are changes to some classes, to some mobs, to some quests. There are improvements to the game world, to textures, lighting and probably a few minor adjustments to some aspects of player character models (i don't expect major changes here though).

These things all need to be tested. Delaying it for no good reason is not worth entertaining.

Lark Wyll

Prepare for more wipes. They are inevitable as they'll need players to go back through all of the funnels for systems they haven't built out (nearly all of them).

A3 won't have the character permanence players are expecting.

SmileGurney

I have taken a break and didn't bother with Phase 2.5, but closer we get to the supposed start of P3 less I'm sure if I actually want to go back. Missing milestones is part of the reason for sure. Luckily, at least for now, Intrepid has time to work on this.

Lark Wyll wrote: »

Prepare for more wipes. They are inevitable as they'll need players to go back through all of the funnels for systems they haven't built out (nearly all of them).

A3 won't have the character permanence players are expecting.

Whatever grind Andys think repeating the same boring grinding loops, contributed quite a bit to the general population burnout.

davenb

What a whole lot of nothing

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