Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Fighter is my heart and soul. It hits most of the major itches from a class fantasy, it is 'relevant' but not 'overpowered' in any content, and is a relatively simple class to grasp, with a decent chunk of nuance to 'play well'
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
Functionally: Ranger; it plays like a 'worse' control mage, and really is only relevant/mandatory for it's low-risk high reward AOE engage. Obviously it HAS merits to it, especially in PvP, but people play it because they HAVE to, not because it's fun. It has two functionally identical skills in Barrage and Volley, it is NOT auto-attack based like many players would assume, and it's not "skill" based (in the sense of careful aim) like your New World-esque players would expect. It has NO meaningful regen, its hunter mark's are so niche that they're ignored in most situations.
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
Targeting as a whole needs refined, ESPECIALLY in action combat. (I know I know, just play tab target). There are issues with quickly changing targets, targets randomly shifting from enemy to friendly (as a dps)
I don't KNOW what a good solution would be, but I cannot stress enough that current Action Mode is an active detriment to a combatant, and it shouldn't be.
Physics need to be addressed as well, Fighter has a prolific bug on blitz that catapults the player in a random direction (oftentimes straight up, which is a death sentence in the PTR)
FIX TANK CHAIN HECTOR!
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
You may not consider this core gameplay, but melee combatants need tools in their toolkit that scale up with enemies hit, specifically group PVP. Guild War/Node War combat is very "zerg-ball" oriented and PvP guilds will literally force their players off of melee (specifically fighters in 2.5) because stepping out of the ball at all just leads to them immediately dying. A lot of people have theorized that ability-triggered 'mitigation buffs' based on targets hit might be a good solution. For instance, a fighter's leap strike could be changed to add a "X% mitigation per enemy player hit for Y seconds" and would instantly change the game for that archetype, rewarding a skillful Leap Strike engage. Not to make it all about fighter, obviously, but similar considerations could be considered as needed. PTR tank is pretty good as-is, but that may change in a live-game gear scenario.
Fighter feels very good intrinsically, I love the "weight" that big abilities have, I like the skills and the interaction that different Status Effects have on your rotation. I have an issue with the limitation that Weapon Skill trees have by not really being unique enough for each weapon (yet?) but I digress, this is an Archetype discussion. :P
I still love the feel of the combat in general even 10 months later, it is definitely a very solid foundation to go forward with, however I do have some fundamental issues that have manifested during this time:
What is Fighter? For PvP specifically, Melee is in a rough spot particularly in larger groups. I understand that Archetypes will be balanced around 8v8 but it still needs to be somewhat viable without ditching your entire class fantasy for spamming Longbow the entire fight.
- I would like Fighter to be more of the disrupting force it is supposed to be. A couple fighters should be able to jump into a group of casters and make them disperse simply by fear of getting AoE tripped and clobbered. This would allow Fighter to fill this specific role of breaking up large clumps of people. IMO this could be achieved by increasing Fighter Invulnerability while actively doing damage and the counter-play would be for people to have to move and kite-drain a fighter's Combat Momentum or focus them down, currently Fighters will run out of juice in 6-8 seconds and have to dodge roll spam just to get away from mages that easily face tanked them. Essentially its a one way trip against a competent team which does not feel very Fighter. Perhaps other Fighters can CC through a Fighter's Invulnerability with some abilities for more counter-play?? Idk throwing things out there...
I think Fighter is in an Almost-but-not-quite state in PvE as well, our status effects are largely useless since any Tank already applies them for free and we are basically locked to Ferocity Form always which doesn't feel super finished.
One footnote about the Rogue: I am a little concerned about free Healing in stealth. Especially since the addition of the rogue archetype, we have the ability for "resets" to happen. In these resets the rogue has the ability to disengage and heal for free. At the very least I feel like we should be able to eat Rations to heal, NOT in combat, but while having ACTIVE DoTs on us. Hit and run attrition tactics are very much a play style for sure, but combine them with no counter-play to force a player back into the fight it becomes this silly situational issue.
This is not just a rogue issue, but also when a Mage applies Burn and then dies and still kills you 8 seconds later simply because you cannot eat even though you are out of combat.
Also, I have a sneaking feeling Summoner will bring a slew of DoT effects with it that are going to be equally annoying.
Good job with the momentum changes, movement abilities feels much more important than in 2.5
- I love the overall feel of fighter.
- Momentum is a shitty class resource. Always starting empty is miserable, and the rate at which it drains when combat ends is far too fast. In PvP, it's hard to generate momentum whilst being constantly kited.
- Melee characters (fighters especially) are fucked in large group combat. The more hardcore guilds won't even slot a fighter in their siege teams.
Class balance should be a matter of taking say 30 design points and splitting them between DPS, Mitigation, Range, Healing, and Mobility. Every class gets the same budget to split. The way the game plays right now, you guys have left Range out of the points calculation. You're splitting the 30 points between DPS, Mitigation, Healing, and Mobility. Ranged classes just get Range for free and it fucks with balance. It also feels like you're not differentiating the classes much. Mage and Ranger are very similar in role, for example.
I also enjoy playing Tank. Not because of the mechanics, but in spite of them. I like being useful to my group, and Tank is very useful. It's just not a lot of fun mechanics-wise. Tank mitigation is pretty piss-poor. Having to hit grit every 18s is annoying as fuck. And everything else a tank gets mitigation-wise, so does every other class if they make the same gear choices. Tanks have a massively increased cost of repair compared to everyone else, and they die so often that they take home less glint and more xp debt too.
I like playing mage and ranger, though less than the two classes above. Maybe I'm a masochist. Ranger and Mage are easy to play, have great damage, everyone wants you in their PvP group, But they're both boring, possibly because they're too easy.
I like playing cleric solo - the self heals are fun, though I do wish there was a way to spec into a more offensive build for cleric. I'd like to be able to sacrifice some group heals for some dps, for instance. I don't like playing cleric in a group, but that's not a slight to AoC clerics in particular - I just don't like to play healers in any game.
I don't like rogue or bard. Both are extremely effective classes, and I like that they have a high skill ceiling. I just don't like playing stealth or support.
You need to raise the skill ceiling on the simpler classes, fix the range vs melee balance, and make every class feel more unique.
I wanted to take a moment to share my honest impressions of several archetypes I’ve played during the Alpha 2 phases. I’ve been active across P1, P2, and now into 2.5. My goal with this feedback is to help improve the experience while staying true to how each archetype currently feels in testing.
Mage:
This has been my most-played archetype across A2 P1 and P2. Early on, the Mage felt powerful, impactful, and fun to play. However, in P2 and especially 2.5, the reworks seem to have reduced its enjoyment and effectiveness. The changes to self-buffs, particularly those affecting mitigation, have left the Mage feeling noticeably more squishy and less rewarding to play. I’d love to see a balance pass that restores some of that earlier agency and survivability.
Tank:
The Tank felt in a really solid place throughout P1 and P2. I haven't played it as much in 2.5 due to the current lack of testing direction and new content, but overall, the archetype delivered a rewarding experience. It had a clear role, strong identity, and engaging mechanics.
Cleric:
Another strong archetype in my opinion. Up until 2.5, it felt well-tuned and meaningful in group content. Some recent balance changes seem to have made healing less impactful and a bit more frustrating, especially at higher content levels. That said, I still consider the Cleric to be in a generally good spot—though it does feel somewhat underwhelming in PvP scenarios.
Ranger:
The Ranger has a lot of exciting abilities and a versatile kit, but its overall damage output feels underwhelming—particularly in PvP. Despite strong potential, the class lacks the punch it needs to stand out.
Bard:
The Bard currently feels overly complex. While I appreciate its design as a high-skill-cap archetype, it may be too demanding for players who just want to enjoy the class without deeply grinding its mechanics. It would be great to see the Bard become more approachable while still rewarding mastery.
Fighter:
Right now, the Fighter feels like the "forgotten class." It lacks a clear identity and purpose—it’s mostly "spin to win" with little depth. While a well-built Fighter can be quite overpowered, that strength doesn't translate into fun or fair gameplay. I believe the Fighter could benefit from a full rework to make it feel more engaging and cohesive.
Rogue:
The Rogue has some interesting tools and build options, but nothing seems to synergize well. It feels like a class with a lot of potential that hasn’t fully come together yet. While fun to play, it’s currently hard to find a clear build path or purpose in group content or PvP.
Summoner (Looking Ahead):
I’m genuinely excited for the Summoner archetype. I have high hopes that it will bring a fresh, unique experience to the game and I’m looking forward to testing it when it becomes available.
The Wolves of Verra
are recruiting: https://discord.gg/4bFySwxS
I started playing mage good class. Let's see what the earth skills bring to the table.
I'm addicted to bard. It's just my cup of tea. I really like the sheer amount of stuff to do.
I tried the rogue, right from the start I can see the hallmarks of a very good class.
I tried cleric, not for me, too static. Good class tho.
-Which archetype do you find the least fun to play?
I haven't played the other classes. I'm not a tank enjoyer in any mmo but, as it stands, I would not touch the tank with a 6ft pole.
-Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement?
I think Dark Lullaby was overnerfed. Sagas need work, they are gimmicky at best atm. In general the upper side of the bard's skill tree feels worse than the lower.
All the classes that I've tried need refinement but then again no class is complete.
-During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped?
Aside from an understandable general lack of polish, no.
P.S.
Give Bucky a raise.
CLICCA QUI PER UNIRTI ALL'ORDINE
General speaking I really enjoy the Fighters kit and fluidity of it during combat. However the fact during almost every single PvP encounter you just try to set up Stagger into Trip, into Stagger into Trip feels very lackluster and often literally forces you into using From of Celerity over all the other stances.
I think the class was designed with some form of "stance dancing" in mind but in reality nobody does it since it interrupts your weapon combo, wastes a GCD and the buffs you get are almost useless due to the fact you're almost always starving for combat momentum during PvP so the impact is minimal.
Berserk is supposed to be that ability which makes every enemy around you go into "oh shit" mode and try to leave melee range asap but atm it's just a button you press to reset your CDs. It's barely ever used for the dmg buff due to its laughable uptime in most situations.
Having the CC break on the same ability as the only real group buff/utility a Fighter brings plus it being a huge combat momentum builder which often gets "wasted" also feels horrible.
Overall the Fighter has almost zero group utility and there are few reasons to ever pick one over a Mage eg. Just looking at all the Guilds literally banning Fighters from their rosters should be proof enough something needs to be done in that area. Maybe this gets better once we can choose 2nd Archetypes like Fighter/Cleric but who knows at this point....
Ranger seems like a Mage with a bow, no real identity here. Imo Rangers should be the kings of mobility, maybe sharing that throne with Rogues. Right now even Bards are way ahead in terms of mobility.
Tanks and their Wall ability are a great addition to making them more viable in PvP imo and gives opportunity for skill expression. Since Margaret leaked her passion for Warhammer Online during the interview with Nyce tho I want to point out one thing that made Tanks absolutely crucial to any group in that game.... GUARD! The ability worked similar to Protect of the current AoC Tank kit but for whatever reason it doesn't even seem to have half of the impact here in AoC. A good Tank in WAR being on top of his Guard switch game whenever someone in the grp was being focused was a menace to deal with and resulted in the "guarded" ally becoming massively more tanky up to the point where you had to find ways to get rid of the Tank first before you could kill their DPS. I'd love to see the Tank archetype get the same kind of battlefield presence here.
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement?
In larger fights (Zerg v Zerg) melee often feels useless. The battles evolve into 2 big balls of people just pew pewing at eachother using ranged abilities and - even more - ranged auto attacks. The cleave potential melee has is minimal in PvP. I think most would agree using your melee autos in PvP rarely ever happens. Even if I'm in melee range, most of the time I'm better of just sticking to ranged autos due to uptime and overall steady "pressure" I can apply on the target. Melee autos in PvP just aren't viable apart from the zug zug moments. The fact Longbows have one of the "best" skill trees and the most range makes it even worse.
I think even Mages or Rangers should have some situations where using their melee weapons makes kind of sense (eg using Spear to zone or applying a quick snare with a 1h Sword), else what's the point of even allowing every archetype to use both?
Apart from this, currently every single weapon just feels like a stat stick. There is almost zero difference between using GS, Mace, Daggers, whatever. The only weapon that gives of a different "vibe" might be the Wand atm due to its unique finisher. I really really hope the current weapon skill trees are the absolute barebones implementations of what we're gonna get in the future.
1.Which archetype do you find the most fun to play? Why?
I was able to test only the Tank, Rogue, Cleric and little bit on Mage & Ranger for the whole Phase 2.
The most fun class from the 5 i listed bellow was def. the Rogue, because it really felt like the Base Rogue archetype with stealth, a lot of CC, movement and survive ability. I would also add some things i do believe could get improved and will make the class better. The stealth wasn't fully invisible or what i would to say it's that you could see where the rogue is if he had weapon enchant glowing, therefore you can reveal him with a damaging ability. I was really hoping the best weapons to use for a rogue would be dagger or dual-daggers. Since there was not difference if you have daggers or a 2 hand Sword everyone were using the 2 H swords for the highest damage output. The Mana Drain poisons feels broken against a Cleric because the Rogue can sustain/heal himself during the fight and start over. Where the Cleric constantly looses mana and there isn't anything you can do against a Rogue since you will get drained and loose all the mana you have very quickly. Regarding this i could suggest to give clerics bigger Mana pool as they don't have any passive abilities that boosts your mana bar, except mana regenaration from weapon attacks.
2.Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
Least fun was the Tank archetype. This is the first class i started with and by the time i got to lvl 25 i was already hating my class. It was very punishing playing a tank in group content where the first person to die it's almost everytime the Tank. And guess what happens when you die? You gear starts loosing durability, you loose most of your Glint which you have aquired for the last an hour or two. Then let's say you finish playing/grinding and you have died more then 5 times. All your gear needs repair, you already lost all your glint which was looted by people that wait for you to die. Your only option to continue forward was to kindly beg or ask other people to give you some silver in order to repair yourself. When you grinding with people you don't know they just leave the party and move forward to the next group. I also believe the whole Tank archetype needs some kind of rework. To me it doesn't feel like a class i would ever play again right now.
3.Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
Tank Grapple - it almost never works
Tank Wall - people can jump over it, you can use it to stop Caravans and Naval Ships from moving.
Tank Absorption Field skill - the visual effects are making everyone blind when used
Flagging up feels really bad - just make it easier to flag. For example last phase i moved away my keybind from Alt+F to - F1. This mechanic needs rework in my opinion - make it easier to use and avoid getting corrupt bait. There were a lot of people that after attacking you they just waited for the flag up mechanic to start fading away and lets you kill them to get corrupted. I believe you should stay flagged up for little longer then it currently is. If you attack a person with a 500-700 HP mount and you accidently target their mount you will get corrupted after 1 ability.
Corruption system it's very punishing right now. I believe that you shouldn't loose any stats once corrupted, at the moment if you get corrupted few times you loose items and you get reduced - HP, Damage, healing.
Think Cleric could use some more party/raid wide healing abilities.
Held abilities feels really bad. I would never really want to hold certain skill in order get less% of it's value. Would suggest to change all the Held abilities in to a single keybind press like the rest, people can always stop their cast if they want to. If you are in PVP scenario where you want to use and hold down certain skill and move at the same time it's really messing up your gameplay. For example the Cleric Deliverance skill - you want to hold it while trying to move away from enemy or ability and additionaly you would like to press a 3rd keybind for the Divine Infusion in order to get the full benefit of it. Also the Cleansing Wave, it's really frustrating when you use it and accidently press it real quick and cancel it's full heal potential.
4. During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
Yes i do believe that mobs are chasing you for a very long distance and you can easly train group of mobs to other people. Visual effects kinda makes the Tanks blind and have no idea if there is anything he needs to avoid, would suggest to reduce the spell effects little bit. I've seen many mobs getting stuck inside a wall or fall through the ground. Then you could accidently pull mobs behind a wall with certain abilities as well. I feel like some more archetypes could use a passive group skill like the Tank - Iron Aura skill.
Thank you!
First off, I would like to change the name of the archetype from Tank to Guardian. It's just a better name.
I feel that I can see the broader plan for the AoC tank, but it also feels like it is missing a few key components to get there. Among these there are two that are essential to me and a few that are just conveniences.
The first big one is Blocking. Right now i AoC it feels like Blocking as a tank is just an afterthought with no real advantages. Active blocking doesn't feel right so blocking is just kind of a stat game where I block every 15th or 20th attack with really noticing. Here I see AoC could take one of two paths, one is to go heavily into Active Blocking and the other is to make Blocking a specc and stat game. Both could be viable if done correctly.
If you choose to go with active blocking, it has to feel rewarding and consequential to do so. This means that I want tools and options to customize my active blocking. This could be done by talents in the tanks talent tree that increase the effectiveness of blocking or reduces stamina cost or the like, or it could be by the choice of shield I make. One shield could be able to block higher amounts of damage and another could have better stamina regen or maybe spikes to deal damage to attackers. But there has to be options. Active blocking also needs to flow better with attack chains so that I can get the benefits of finishers somehow even if I'm raising my shield to block attacks.
If blocking is made in to a passive specc and stat game, then there has to be more abilities and talent choices to actually improve or specialize my blocks. This could be a defensive ability to increase my block rating or block chance for a few seconds, or it could be stats on the shield that make me acctually block a significant amount of the incoming attacks or that affect how much of the incoming attacks are blocked. Once again, make me have actual choices that impact the outcome of the encounter.
The second essential component I think is missing is the options to customize the feedback I get during combat. For example, I would like to be able to put certain buffs, like Grit, on a different spot in my UI than all the other buffs just so that it's easier to track. I would also like to be able to customize how incoming damage is displayed and I would really, really, really like to have a visual indicator on the nameplate of mobs if I have aggro or not.
I also think that the tank resource Courage is underwhelming. Right now it only acts as a secondary resource for a few abilities. I would much rather have Courage be a resource that you could either spend on abilities for offense or stack up for greater defence. This would give it a tactical component instead of just being a secondary resource. This could for example be done by have certain defensive abilities stay active as long as you stay above 50 Courage and the Cooldown starts when the effect is lost. That would mean that it's a choice, and a bigger impact, if you choose to spend your Courage on offensive abilities or if you want to manage it for defensive power.
Other than that I would like the tank to have a few more CC options and a few more defensive options. Not necessarily so I can have them all at the same time, just so that I can customize for playstyle and content.
Also, the ability Reflect is one of my favorites as a tank. I would just like if it not only did damage to the attacker, but also blocked incoming damage. Currently it doesn't.
Thank you for reading
1. Which archetype do you find the most fun to play? Why?
Bard, hands down. You have the ability to do multiple archetypes of skills and more. Have respectable damage, healing, shielding, buffs, CC, all of it. On top of that with proper execution you are the most mobile archetype in the game bar none. Without even getting into the more utility aspects of the kit there is so much value that it has the potential to render other archetypes redundant in many circumstances outside of the barest necessities (Dedicated tank, resurrect, etc).
2. Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
As many have said there are glaring issues across Ranger, Mage, Cleric. However out of those Mage definitely feels the worst. It is uninspired, uninteresting, and doesn't really bring anything to the table that makes it feel worth playing outside of diehard mage fans. In the current state it encourages mixed elemental gameplay due to lack of more skills within any individual element. While definitely an idea from somewhere, it prevents players from having the agency to focus on effects they like while preventing growth to more grand spells of a particular element. Fire spells for example only have a few basic effects with a standard fireball, instant, and ground effect. Those feel like techniques that a novice would use and there are no spells that feel like you've grown as a mage (No, prismatic beam doesn't count). You're as developed at level 6 as you will be at 25 for that fantasy. Other elements are largely the same and it eventually ends up your mage has a spread of spells that feel incredibly simple... You just know more of them. Never graduated mage school, I guess.
Ranger feels too similar to mage. There are multiple skills that lock down the ranger with long cast bars. Give rangers their own identity instead of the skills they are excited to use just feeling shoehorned in from another archetype. Ranger ammo infusions should be unique or interesting, not taken straight off the weapon skill trees. Your skills should not have less value than a weapon skill node. An example done better is on the fighter kit, where the fighter is able to take wound passives that apply to their abilities instead of weapon combos. While the debuff is the same, it adds variance by applying those effects in different circumstances.
Cleric is one-dimensional and needs more skill expression. This could include more pre-emptive healing such as barriers or alternate HoTs, buffs, something to feel like you're having a broader effect than staring at the battlefield fixated on the little bars. Bards do what clerics do and in many situations they do it better. Unless a group is inept doing deliberately stupid things or punching well above their weight class, a cleric is an afterthought unless you want to have a safety res available. It would be very interesting to see a split cleric where you are able to balance some offensive and healing magic together to have a more active role. Too many clerics just kinda exist to soak exp and pretend they're contributing when they aren't.
3. Rogues
A few words on rogue as well since we're already here. While there is a lot of cohesion in the kit and it is definitely with bard as being the most refined, there are a few things that haven't really been sitting right. The first is poison application, hitting a button every 10s that purely gives you class identity is incredibly cumbersome and not fun. This is an issue that I believe tank had previously with grit, having to mash a key for the simplest things is button clutter. It doesn't add anything to the rotation, it doesn't make sense that your poison vanishes so quickly. There are a lot of ways poison applicators have functioned historically to the point it feels like a kid in a candy store and the poison vanishes because our characters are licking it off the weapons before it gets used. Why? Rangers don't have to mash their ammo button to receive ammo buffs, mages don't have to mash a button to get enchant weapon buffs, even the large theme buffs from bard last 60s and those apply to the entire party.
Secondly, I would love to see Death Mark moved/changed to be a part of Shadow Step or something. Rogue feels a bit weird being a melee class with multiple minimum-range skills. Even ranger doesn't have that limitation and it's the one using distance attacks. Death Mark specifically has no function if someone is too close, unlike Shadow Step that still has diminished value since it will not provide advantage. I enjoy the risk/reward of Shadow Step and would LOVE to see Death Mark as an upgrade to it instead of a standalone skill. It would work largely how it does already, only triggering if you Shadow Step from beyond the minimum range. This sort of change would make Shadow Step have a split value, either you use it to initiate from a distance to mark your target(or punish runners) or hold onto it for your CC break. Risk vs reward for a more thoughtful playstyle. As it is now outside of specific circumstances Death Mark isn't worth considering as for PvP it is literally outing yourself and effectively breaks your own stealth by laughing at your target and dancing "i'ma come get yoouuu!".
I will sacrifice Flurry from the entire kit for the Death Mark idea above. Seriously though, Flurry feels bad and doesn't mesh into other rotations well. Even trying to utilize it for PvE it has lesser value than doing nearly anything else. Once you start getting more stable stats you are able to clip its animation and prevent the second strike from finishing, negating any purpose for its existence. One idea I had for it is to remove it as an active skill and turning it into a passive or auto-attack style of skill. Something that will cause the 'Flurry' effect once every Xseconds or something. That way it happens naturally without worrying about where it has to go or sharing hotkey space with skills you actually want to use.
I will also sacrifice Thump from Doublestrike's proc list for Death Mark changes (To be clear, I love it there. It makes people mad.). Everyone wants us to have less CC anyways, right??
Although I am and always will be a mage main, I would without a doubt say the most fun/well rounded/well designed classes are Bard, Rogue, and fighter. They all have good (rogue great) kits with lots of interactions with one another, and a high skill ceiling to separate the average player from a good player. Specifically the bard and rogue have good class fantasy/mechanic that makes them unique and engaging to play. As mentioned by other respondents, all classes should be as well designed/well rounded as the rogue at a minimum.
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
I would say the rest of the classes need reworking/heavy refinement: Mage, Ranger, Tank, Cleric. I think their class mechanics are uninteresting and don't have enough synergy with the rest of the kit. Aside from mage, the ranger/tank/cleric just have basic builder/spender class mechanic that pretty much does the same thing - this needs reworking/heavy refinement.
As mentioned, I main mage and the class mechanic is uninteresting and needs more flare/synergies woven into the kit overall (or completely reworked). Shatter is cool and a no-brainer, but aside from that everything is lacking. At current max level, mages don't have much in terms of utility/flavor spells outside of slumber and invis eye; Give us more options to create unique builds focusing more on the elements (fire/ice/arcane/earth?), give us more class synergy and interested abilities/mechanics that allow for high skill play and not just straight damage (COUNTERSPELL PLS).
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
I have to say, i really dislike the shared debuff mechanic. When in a group bigger than maybe 5 people or with 2-3 classes that share the slow/immobilize debuff, it makes it extremely difficult/impossible to successfully execute your rotation even if you play perfectly. You will never be able to take advantage of the frozen/shatter/thermal equilibrium/fuse talents because it will always get DRed instantly when grouped with a few classes that overlap the debuff; even more so in a raid. This feels AWEFUL and makes you not want to try and maximize your dps or care about how you even play your class, as we haven't experienced any content yet where knowing how to play your class even matters anyways. I understand that shared debuffs has a place, but there needs to be a middle ground where you can still focus on personal performance - IE a certain amount of stacks of shock/burning/freeze produced by you are only usable by you, or something to that effect. In addition, i think there should be an option for button prompts or better visual ques for consuming stacks of a debuff that aren't just watching the tiny squares on enemy health bars!
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
As touched on in previous paragraph, better visual ques for stacks would be nice so we aren't staring at the tiny debuff squares constantly. I also think adding more interclass synergies would truly make this a next gen combat experience. The same way the new caravan system added the ability to opt-in via clicking an icon, maybe small visual indicators to use an ability with another player in your group/raid. I think this could possibly be a better way to have party/class synergy without disrupting your own buffs/debuff/rotations and still maintain the same reactive gameplay. Imagine a ranger charging a kill shot, and for a brief period, a visual indicator becomes available to your class (there would be unique class interactions available only to said class combos/abilities ) to empower their kill shot with fire to give it more damage and apply burning by clicking the icon before it disappears! I think there is so much you can do with class/party synergies that is still left on the table with everything so far.
I enjoy cleric immensely because I prefer to play healers. It has the core kit for healing that I really enjoy. I do believe the damage tools are a bit bare and lack a design that lends itself to a "war of attrition" playstyle though. Something like a mana burn, a slowly building damage that punishes someone for not killing the cleric quickly.
I also think cleric's mobility is awful presently. PVP isn't a cat and mouse game presently. Just a cat and unmoving cat toy game. I'd love to see some kit choices that allow clerics to lean into damage and unholy themes but have it be a compelling choice in the talent tree. Also, something that is more "miraculous" and "big" that feels like a god intervening on their behalf. Big bonus points if it can be augmented by their religion.
That might be a big way to help clerics out with flavor, is through religious augments to their abilities.
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
I have not played much of other classes because I am not interested but I did enjoy them when I dabbled. I have seen fighter and tank suffer the most as far as player count as compared to earlier iterations of the game, so they likely need some love.
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
Discriminators for friendly v. unfriendly abilities would be great. Meaning tinge the abilities with red around the edge of it if it is a harmful ability. Friendly abilities can be left alone visually.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
For higher levels I hope there's a few more interaction between abilities archetypes/class. I'd love for there to be some sort of team up abilities that take time to charge to create a significant ability (think like a mage and a summoner conjuring a golem or cleric and bard to create an impactful buff.) I'd love some longer cooldown abilities that are compelling when you use them that have a bigger impact that require another class or character to do it.
That and augments (not just subclass, but racial and religious as well.)
I would love to play the archer but, so boring. It has no true range. ranger should be able to be snipers. close up sniper is not a sniper. No color abilities to arrows, you should not be able to see where it came from, an oh shit were did that come from moment.
Mage also feels like it's missing roughly 3-5 spells for each type (fire, ice, lightning). If I want to play a fire mage I want to feeling like I'm burning people to the ground. When I'm playing ice I want to feel the freezing of enemies. When playing lightning I want to feel like I'm casting impactful spells that arc between enemies.
Mage Fixes:
Innate Abilities:
Arcane Volley - Only Arcane spell but gets outpaced in terms of damage output by about level 10. Only has early use
Elemental Empowerment - Feels pointless, I cant remember a single time I've actively needed to use this outside of Prismatic Beam
Illuminate - I can only assume this is intended feature that has yet to be implemented.
Arcane Eye - Serves a great purpose
Tier 1:
Lightning Strike - Never seen a slower built up Lightning Strike in my life. Wild that this isn't an instant cast I don't know but boy howdy is it slow.
Frostbolt - Good early game spell but it being outclassed later by Hoar Frost into Cone of Cold is sad. It needs to freeze if the target is chilled this would allow for a lot more flexibility.
Firebolt - Simply a must take. 8 second recharge with 3 charges combos great into Combust no reason to ever not take this spell especially since it's effectively instant cast.
Fireball - Cannot find a reason to take this spell when Firebolt does everything you could want plus stagger. The cast time + cooldown make it a bad choice. Should be a separate spell from Firebolt that way it can serve another purpose.
Bombardment - Good spell would be even better if Firebolt and Fireball were separate spells.
Shattering Shards - Not a bad combination spell need more of these.
Tier 2
Combust - Great spell for burst damage If Fireball was it's own spell I would say using Fireball on a burning target should reset Combust cooldown. No real fix needed just a good fire spell.
Amplified Lightning Strike - Good passive attached to a horrific spell. I almost never cast Lightning Strike a full charge so rarely ever take advantage of this.
Cone of Cold - Good CC spell freeze enemies feels great to use.
Tier 3
Blink - Feels so good to cast. It's what I imagine blink would feel like.
Shell - Feels like it could last slightly longer.
Tier 4
Unyielding Blink - Removes disables is just good
Accelerative Blink - Either you use Blink for damage or Blink to keep you alive. If you use it for this spell you deserve to have your character die. Should be it's own spell not attached to Blink.
Slumber - Good CC hard to always find right time to use it.
Enchant Weapon - Don't really know what this does never really took it.
Hoarfrost - Must take for AOE Chilled for Cone of Cold Freeze.
Shatter - Best combo spell for mages. To bad you basically can only use this once every 20 seconds unless someone else freezes if there were more freezes in game this would be even better Alas there's only 2.
Tempestuous Cone of Cold - Enemies are frozen what's a push back gonna do?
Tier 5
Magma Field - Long cast time to add a mediocre burn effect that enemies will run out of.
Ball Lightning - Massive range but resoundingly only really good for adding Volatile in an AOE. Chain lightning is just better even though ball lightning can hit more than 5 enemies.
Chain Lightning - Bread and butter AOE spell for lightning class. Great damage and great for proccing AOE freeze and shatter damage. Generally take this as soon as it becomes available.
Tier 6
Pyromania - Better Cast Speed and Faster ticks. Since you can just walk out of Magma field with almost no issues doesn't feel great.
Fuse - Combo for fire on shocked target. Must take for Magma really good to drop it targets that have just been hit by a HF>CoC>CL combo. This will mainly hit a few targets at best more likely to be used on a single target to add a metric ton of burst.
Arcane Circle - Ah yes let's stand still as a glass cannon - great for PVE not great for PVP.
Prismatic Beam - Great spell and pretty much the only reason to ever cast Elemental Empowerment
Blizzard - Massive CD, Minimal Damage, Good way to chill and freeze people. More for CC than anything else.
Thermal Equilibrium - Unless I've missed something the only way to use this is if you use combust on someone so ya likelihood of this coming into play is not high. (EX - Fireboltx3>Combust>Hoarfrost>Cone of Cold) If there was a way to get conflagration on more targets would be much better. Unless I'm just forgetting something.
Aftershock - Stagger is always good just more damage.
Ideas for Fixes:
Fireball and Firebolt should be their own spells not on the same slot
Lightning Strike (Rework) - 1.5 Second Cast Time - apply Shocked and Staggered to primary target
Arc Lightning (Replace Amplified Lightning Strike) - Lightning Strike arcs to other targets in a 5m range adding 5 additional stacks of Shocked and Staggered to all targets and dealing 50% base damage
Frostbolt (rework) - Frostbolt now can freeze chilled targets.
Combust - All Targets that are burning receive conflagrating - This would allow for a lot more combos with Thermal Equilibrium.
Accelerative Focus (Replace Accelerative Blink) - Spell allows you to cast next Fireball, Frostbolt or Lightning Strike within 3 seconds instantly.
These changes would add additional combos and spells to be used in a much more friendly manner creating a lot more combos. They aren't all entirely perfect but it feels like we're kinda shoehorned into a very specific route and we should have a lot more combinations. The skill ceiling on Mage should be one of the highest in the game and those that learn it should be rewarded but it seems like right now a lot of spells in general are segmented or they are basically pick or pass. I'm all for someone correcting me if I'm mistaken in any of this but at least for me it feels like we're short about 5 spells for each element.
Spell Book:
Someone posted it earlier that I don't feel like a fire mage, ice mage, or lightning mage I just feel like I got a sprinkling of spells. I should have probably a spell book at least twice the size that I have now and still have the same skill points. Let me choose if I want to focus in on only one type of spells or be a generalist and have a little bit of everything. It's ok for the mage to have choices and not be able to take every spell. It's not ok for a mage to feel like he has a little bit of everything but not really be good at any of it.
- Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
I played all archetypes to level 25 at some point. I think they're all fun to play in their own ways, but I also think that there's a lot missing from every archetype as well.
Cleric: Healing is too damn OP. Look at the numbers you give this class with the amount of buttons to press for healing and you will see why this class can soak up all the damage AoE, over-time, clutch moments, etc. Purify being no cooldown for wiping debuffs is massive. Turned a support class into a piano key class and that's fun. Please for the love of god tune the numbers down. Cleric, like a lot of archetypes suffer from lack of archetype depth.
Fighter: This archetype has the most fluid rotation out of them all. It's extremely fun and people love this class. It has zero durability and revolves around blood fusion to exist and when that cooldown is down it is no longer good. The damage coming from them is not enough to burst in the current meta which makes them extremely weak as well. While it may be one of the most fun classes with one of the best kits, it is lacking in utility, durability, sustain, and damage for what it is meant to be. Fighter, like a lot of archetypes suffer from lack of archetype depth.
Mage: Mage is probably the most OP damage class at the moment on PTR. With lack of magic resist in the gearing options they do a lot of damage to physical classes since light armor is not currently in the game giving bonuses to physical users. The lack of gear diversity is making Mage the best class in the game at the moment to play. They have the ability to make big plays, do tons of damage at range, and are relatively safe with all their damage and have a huge defensive with Shell making them tanky as well. This has to be the absolute best archetype at the moment. Mage, like a lot of archetypes suffer from lack of archetype depth.
Ranger: This is by far my favorite archetype in every MMO and has always gotten shafted due to power in range/mobility. Ranger currently is less mobile than immobile while supposedly it is supposed to be the second most mobile next to Rogue. So far, Bard is the most mobile class. Ranger is the brain dead drop vine field, snipe, lightning reload, snipe headshot get a pick class. Reign of death for wounds, and scattershot to spread big dick damage... but does less than mage and isn't really that much damage to be fair. You're not getting picks solo anymore with increased TTK and the cast time of snipe is not a fast kill and will probably get healed through. Having movement speed decreased while shooting as a ranger feels really bad and should have a passive that allows Rangers to auto without decreasing movement speed. Strider is good, but not that good. Disengage being your only real way to get out of anything and bear traps are so niche they're not that great. Focus as a class resource is good and is a good way to bump damage but it is still lacking in terms of magic archetypes. Ranger, like a lot of archetypes suffer from lack of archetype depth.
Rogue: My baby. My one true love that I walked away from Ranger for. True invisibility is amazing... when it works. It's by far the most overloaded kit in the game outside of bard. It ALSO has the worst damage in comparison. It doesn't fulfill the burst class. Poison stacking feels like a mechanic that's good for extended fights for PvE but in PvP it's an afterthought and also not really applicable. I also don't want Rogues to feel forced into Poisons--which it is. It's by far one of the coolest archetypes in Ashes of Creation but is severely underloaded in numbers due to it's overloaded kit and that feels bad. A lot of it's "overloaded kit" comes from the amount of CC it grants that makes people upset, but in reality, you're not hitting major CC for a long time in group PvP. It's hardly worthwhile in PvE. It's no mesmerizing dance and marionette class, that's for sure. It's relatively weak in comparison to other archetypes all around... does good in 1v1s though. Which, to be fair, does not exist in Ashes of Creation outside of dueling with all of the group play mechanics and gets gimped by the over-tuned corruption system for those that want to fight people in the open world. Rogue, like a lot of archetypes suffer from lack of archetype depth.
Tank: This has to be the strongest physical based archetype. Good mitigation, good damage, good support skills, good utility, and has some good mobility. This archetype is probably really good if not for the constant clicking of grit whenever it's off cooldown (which is not long). The grapple has to be the most frustrating part of playing tank. Having control in PvP and in PvE, you are the archetype that everyone wants in their party. However... Tank, like a lot of archetypes suffer from lack of archetype depth.
- Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
YES. Archetype depth. Every single archetype currently is a well-rounded archetype that can do everything. Depth into the trees will create meaningful choices. Do I want to be a frost mage, fire mage, DoT archetype, burst rogue, mobility rogue, stealth rogue, bomb-class fighter, sustain fighter, immobile juggernaut tank, mobile gap closing tank, support cleric, radiant cleric, utility bard, damage bard, healing bard, mana bard, mobile auto attacking ranger, snipe burst ranger, AoE ranger, utility ranger, etc.
There's a lot of ways to play these archetypes that may be unlocked with secondary archetypes but currently there's not a lot of depth that makes the players make choices. There is only "you have all the skills available once you hit level 25" and I don't think that's a good thing. More choices, more skills, more adaptability, more playstyles, more diversity in general will make balancing harder... good. When games are too balanced then they start feeling stale and metas form. We can look at Phase 2.5 PvP tourney for that. When everyone had the same DR then the fights lasted longer, sure, but once you take down one person the fight was completely over for most scenarios. When healing is too strong, mitigation is too high, and TTK takes forever, you cannot turn the tables in a fight.
Bard was also pretty fun to play. Tank was okay but I felt like it was too much of a normal fighter in an armor hitting things with a sword for my liking. Maybe with the 2nd class it gets a little more flavour. Mage I didnt play that much in real combat yet but atleast the animations are pretty and blink is fun skill.
I am still waiting for Summoner to see how it works. Might pick that one if it the pet controls are not all over the place (or just learn to use them if they are) since I personally like to be able to adjust my role in a party to fit the needs and learn to play different roles.
Bard, because you actually can do different things/adjust to the group, have movement, if overall more engaging to play and got more resources to manage. I wouldn't say it's perfect but it's ahead of other classes for me.
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
I would like to mention specific aspects for all classes that are lacking something for me and what makes it less fun to play because of it.
- Mage
Basic ideas with different elements and combos are there but poorly implemented. There is no such thing as actual class fantasy with going ice mage or fire mage. I hope this gets better with improved skill trees but right now it's one of the most simple and boring mages I've played.
- Cleric
The main issue I have with the cleric is tied to the overall gameplay loop especially in PvE. Asides from maybe cleansing sometimes you are literally just standing there waiting for your tank's hp to drop and spam the same buttons over and over again, it's insanely boring. This is why I think the bard is much better as you have much more to do and pay attention to. But again this is tied to the gameplay and mechanics in general as it's the PvE combat design, it's just super static. For healer classes and their skill kit there is only so much you can do as it's a healer after all and it's supposed to heal, but that's where the combat design on the monster side becomes really important and impactful. And right now the only reason I am playing cleric is the convenience that comes with the healing, not because the gameplay is fun. Cleric is also missing mobility.
- Tank
I've wrote about this here
The tank doesn't really feel good to me because of the active block feeling terrible in it's current state.
Detailed explanation in the linked post.
- Fighter
Feels like dealing too little damage OR being too squishy for being melee. As a melee you are taking on a much higher risk than ranged classes, especially with how the gameplay currently is. There has to be some sort of upside to it, like more damage or more tankiness
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
- Active block, again as I described in detail here
- PvE gamplay being way too static. For me PvE has to feel satisfying and fun in at least one way. If the fights are really long like they are in ashes right now, that can be fine, if the combat is really fun and engaging in return. Right now that is not the case, as mentioned above with cleric this is especially bad. The combat is really slow, static and not really engaging. The other option would be that the fights are much shorter and you get the fun and satisfaction through making a good pull and bursting the enemies. That doesn't mean this has to be easy, it can still require everybody to combo their skills well, for the mobs to be pulled in a specific way and a specific number. This was possible with the scorpion broodlings in p2 for example.
- Healing with hybrid combat mode, detailed description here
- Personally not a big fan of the current implementation of stamina and dodge roll. Feels clunky and not like a fully thought through implementation. Is it supposed to enhance your evasion? Is it supposed to be an iframe? Is it supposed to just be movement? Right now it's the weirdest mixture. Overall really just half-baked.
If it's supposed to be an iframe, I would recommend taking inspiration from games that implemented this really well like Tera. If it's supposed to be a movement only skill, you gotta make sure it works well and feels good with the rest of the gameplay, more skill shots, less lock on and so forth.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
Basically the same as I mentioned above.
Additionally I would love to finally see a reason to have all classes in a group, for example in form of a luck buff for each different class in the group. This was something I was really looking forward to for ashes as I believe it was stated that this was the intention for group gameplay at least in the long run. But right now the lack of AoE or other issues are still pushing people to only play certain classes and there isn't really any incentive to play a less popular class atm.
Other
I am currently worrying about whether you will add more skills for level 25-50 or if you will just try and stretch it and not really adding anything new. I think that would be terrible, as one thing that really appealed to me about Ashes was the idea about a lot of individuality when it comes to your playstyle and class. If we basically only keep the same skills that we have now already for the final version of the game and only get the possibility to put more skill points into one skill, I think it simply wouldn't offer enough individuality for any of the classes.
Similar with the secondary classes, I know we're far from that, but all the players I've talked to expect a lot of individuality coming from the secondary archetype choice, where I also feel the impact might be not as big as people are looking forward to, which then might be resulting in disappointment for many many people
Which archetype do you find the most fun to play? Why?
So far the most fun archtypes I have played for me are Bard, Mage. These classes seem to be set apart from others with the kits they have and how playing them feels. Just overall a fun experience.
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
So far for me the least fun to play archtypes have been Ranger, Tank, Cleric. These archtypes seem to just have this generic feel to them from gamplay movement to have the skills interact in combat, they just seem too linear or have a manufactured feel to them instead of a uniqueness to their respective archtypes. For ranger you just feel as those you are a stationary auto turret with different auto attack animations. Cleric is pretty much the same for me as ranger, it just feels like that stale copy pasted of what the class has always been. As for tank it took a step in the right direction but just has this feeling that something is missing and you can't quite tell what, like eating food you know is missing some type of seasoning but you can't quite tell what. Tank for me is in a weird middle ground, sometimes it feels great and others not so much.
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
In my opionion there is only one that needs a little more love and that is the combo system for skills. In this regard looking at it from a new player standpoint it would be difficult to tell what spells/skills combo with another or break your auto attacks keeping you from triggering finishers, that being said it could easily be fixed with a little more attention and discription to the skills and spells to know exactly how they work and what combos off of another attack or skill.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
This is a touchy subject for me as it is somehting that is gonna flare some hate, SO SAYING THIS I AM AWARE THAT AOC IS STILL IN DEVOLPMENT!!! Its just a personal irritaiton. For solo play sessions the questing system and bounty bords need ALL THE LOVE! Most quests in the current state are broken or are so vague in the quest description that they get bypassed and people just go straight to grinding mobs, which is sad because the quests that do work are fun! As for bounty boards they would benifit from staying with player lvl/zone lvl. What I mean by this is when you pick a bounty up from the kill board it should be withing your lvl range so you can actually bennifit from it, as it is now they don't do that and once you hit lvl 10-15 much like the quests it becomes more efficent to just kill mobs and again its sad because they could be great for the solo players out there. As for group sessions right now the mid-late game grind is more of just mindless mob killing and just has no dept or substance. I can't really explain it but just aimlessly killing mobs in ROS for 5 lvls is just not exciting gamplay. We need group content, quests, objectives something to pull that group in and work together to give it that group feel. IDK but that is my opion and just that.
Keep up the good work you all!
Every other class
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
Ranger.
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
auto attacks range for rangers using BOW.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
i think its better if Ranger ammo do like Explosion, Snare to stun 0.5segs when u have 20 stacks of that ammo etc..
The ranger feels underwhelming. Other classes can use bows too, yet the archer doesn't get any real advantage from it—not even a meaningful range difference (just 5-10 meters more). On top of that, basic attacks and some abilities slow you down. Why? That doesn’t happen to mages or bards. Why slow down the archer, the one class that’s supposed to be agile?
I've only played fighter as I find the dreadnought archetype appealing.
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
Havent played anything else
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
Berserk is really strong, but it only lasts ~6seconds with max momentum i'd like to see this extended to ~8-10secs as most engagements/ability rotations dont allow for ability expression during this time.
Fighters are currently stagger dependent for their trip mechanic and alot of players end up with mace or warmace, extending berserk would help with this.
If Berserk was 20% phys power for ~8-10secs it would feel better.
Berserk having an impairment break and either disable evasion or cc immunity for duration would help
The forms should be combined into one as well, stand alone they dont add any additional gameplay adjustments
Snare was pretty useless in 2.5, but i think itll have more value in p3. would also like to see it increase to -40%movement speed, as people were just walking away in 2.5.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
In group PvP the value add from fighter is very minimal. In PvE i get blown up at melee range. build like a glasscannon to level, then end up building tanky for endgame pvp and pve, while still not being valuable. Its been rough, been rough.
I would like to see Fighters with more shout skills which could be defining for the class and make it more viable in large scale PVP.
Cleric
Skill types feedback
I prefer direct healing styles so the lack of preventative shields and HoTs is a pro for me, not a con. I could go on a huge rant on why those skill types are a problem and they should be minimized at best. Protective shielding and HoT-based heals are a balance nightmare - either underpowered and useless or overpowered and broken. And personally I find them extremely unfun - I enjoy the power of a big direct heal and saving lives with it, and watching those health bars go up and down, knowing I really made a difference. Whereas preemptive HoTs and shields you lose the fun of that life-saving moment and you lose the skill of needing to use the right skill at the right second, and reacting quickly. It's too easy to press buttons and prevent all that damage. Not to mention, it's impossible to interrupt someone using instant cast HoTs/Shields, or catch up to them since they can move and cast at the same time, or borderline useless to silence them when they have HoTs ticking or shields up that make your silence pointless. Please look to the mistakes of other games and don't repeat them. If you get nothing out of this wall of text, please for the love of god, remember this.
Pros/Cons of Cleric
So overall I enjoy the skillset and feel like I have a good variety of spells at my disposal. With the addition of more active and passive skills as well as augments, I can see this becoming something really cool. I also think the additional skills and augments are what will introduce more variety into the playstyle of Cleric that a lot of people seem to be looking for. It's very unfinished and people seem to forget that. But the foundation you've started with right now is an amazing start compared to other games out there (and I've played and healed in nearly all of them).
I do see people playing Cleric in a few different ways which I think greatly colors people's perception of the class and can make it feel powerful and busy or weak and ineffective. That being said, I don't feel like we just spam skills off CD. We have a great filler spammer spell with Deliverance and although the charge up mechanic could use some refining to feel less awkward, this spell does have a lot of skill potential with the various ways you can use it. I'd say this is true of many of our skills actually and can make a Cleric shine when played right, allowing your team to pull more and faster, or allowing us to offer more offensive support.
I also love that we have so much offensive potential although it doesn't feel obvious how much were helping in party, so these skills could perhaps use some tuning so they feel more impactful when you're using them, and so you feel the loss when you're not. But I love the idea that we can silence enemies, provide magic mitigation, debuff mobs so they take more magic damage, dispel them, can snare/root/stun targets, all while providing bits of damage on all these skills, and mana regen to one party member (and free mana return to ourselves). It's an entire offensive support rotation that keeps me busy when I don't need to be saving lives from overly large pulls (and I love the focus required to pull that off because we have the skillset to make it happen).
I will also say that aside from the Cleric having the ability for some amazing skill expression, it also doesn't appear obvious enough while playing. A Cleric can be played poorly and get by just fine as far as their team is concerned which makes it really disheartening to those of us trying to make the most of it. Sure there are differences, but they're not impactful enough to the untrained eye.
Bard
I think Bard is OP and skills like healing and cleansing should be Cleric skills. Just remove them from Bard completely, although they can keep stuff like +healing buffs, they just don't need to actually provide healing or cleansing of any kind. Those are always distinctly Cleric roles. Bard is the buff/debuff/CC/dps class, which is already way more than enough. Giving those skills to Cleric - or where appropriate, some of the heals to Summoner's heal pet - would make the balance feel better for the Cleric. It would reduce the amount of unnecessary healing going on in the game and make balance easier, while also reinforcing the need for a Cleric in a party in addition to a Bard. And when we have Summoners, you're going to want to design the game to actually need the occasional heal from a Summoner too.
Also in regards to Bard, I feel like the ideas behind some of the skills seem cool, but from what little I played I felt like I was limited in my ability to make decisions on the fly with longer cooldowns and some of the class mechanics locking me into certain playstyles and combos. I played Chanter in Aion and loved that I wasn't locked into a rotation but could choose what type of support my team needed at any given second and adapt on the fly (it's one of the reasons Cleric in this game is so fun). I'm also just not a fan of musical themes. I prefer more martial styled support, like the Cleric-Monk chanting theme of Chanter. Standing around playing music just kind of sucks the fun out of being a badass support.
Intrepid has the opportunity to deliver something no MMO has achieved: a true hybrid combat system. That does not mean giving players a choice between tab and action mode. It means designing the entire combat system with a deliberate mix of both. Some abilities should use action targeting, others should use tab, depending on their purpose and feel. That blend should be natural, seamless, and core to every archetype. Right now, action cam feels like a bolted-on feature, and it shows. Bard and Cleric are barely playable in it, which makes the system feel incomplete. If Intrepid builds combat around this hybrid logic from the ground up, not as a toggle but as a balance of input and intention, they have a real chance to lead the industry. Hybrid is not a UI setting. It is a design philosophy.
Intrepid is on the right track with how they are approaching weapons. There is clear intent to give them identity and presence, which shows real design talent. But if weapons lack mechanical depth, they will fall flat and become nothing more than proc sticks. A weapon should not just trigger effects. It should have rhythm, reach, and flow. It should shape how you engage, how you move, and how you think in combat. Every swing or shot should be deliberate. That is why the auto-attack system needs to be removed entirely. Any feature that automates the game or removes decision-making goes against the foundation of skill-based combat. A great example of the right direction is Outward, which used right and middle mouse button combinations to change the behavior and sequence of weapon attacks. Systems like that give weapons identity through input, not just stats. If Intrepid commits to fully manual, physically expressive weapons, they can create something that truly respects and rewards player control.
Rogue feels the most complete in terms of a functional kit. The abilities flow well, make sense together, and support an actual playstyle. There is cohesion and intention behind what the Rogue can do, and that makes it feel satisfying to use. Bard is the next closest in terms of kit design, but it completely falls apart in action cam. That breaks the experience and makes it hard to enjoy despite its potential. Outside of those two, the rest of the archetypes either feel incomplete or disconnected from their core identity.
Cleric is by far the least fun to play. The kit feels obnoxiously repetitive, with bland healing abilities and almost no meaningful mitigation outside of ground-based effects. It plays like a bot, and there is nothing dynamic or engaging about it. Ranger is next. It has one of my favorite abilities in the game, Scatter Shot with the passive that turns it into a line ability. That skill hits the sweet spot for what hybrid combat should be: mechanical, strategic, and skill expressive. But then the rest of the kit contradicts that, especially Snipe, which roots you in place with an awkward cast time and fails to match the feel or function of a proper ranged archetype. Thematically, the fantasy version of Ranger is also confused. A real Ranger, like the U.S. Army’s elite infantry, is defined by mobility, precision, and high-impact engagements. The current design instead feels like a poor man's druid with a bow, forced into a nature mage aesthetic that is clunky and unfocused. It misses the mark on both gameplay and identity.
Tank suffers from the same core issue as Ranger. It has one of the best anti-zoning gap closers in the game with Charge, but then it also has Grapple, which feels completely redundant and out of place. The Tank should be designed as an anti-zoning field controller first, not just an aggro magnet for mindless mob grinding. Most of its skills do not support that role at all. Charge, Intimidating Aura, and Ground Pound are the strongest parts of the kit, but everything else feels like a placeholder pulled from older tab-target MMOs. It needs to move away from the passive "stand there and get hit" design and instead be rebuilt around controlling space, denying movement, and enabling allies. Intrepid should be looking at Lancer from TERA, Engineer from Asheron’s Call 2, or control-heavy kits from games like Smite and Predecessor. That is the direction that fits both the game and the physics engine, not another face-tank template.
Mage has the same problem most ranged abilities do. It feels clunky and awkward to use in action combat, though not nearly as bad as Bard or Cleric. The kit itself is mostly fluid and combos together well enough, so it is not terrible to play. The bigger issue is its performance once time to kill is raised to a proper pace. As soon as fights slow down to where they should be, Mage starts to fall off completely. It lacks staying power and consistent impact over time, which makes it feel weak and outpaced once combat moves beyond burst trades. That disconnect makes it hard to see the Mage as viable in sustained or group-focused fights.
Fighter has a decent kit, but nothing in it stands out. It does not reach the level of Tank or Ranger when it comes to action combat, and none of the melee kits really do. They all lean too hard into basic cleave spam with no real sense of precision, control, or tactical use. Fighter is also extremely basic in how it functions. The Momentum mechanic is just Rage under a different name, and that kind of flavor text does nothing if it is not actually tied to the physics engine. If it is not going to interact with movement, inertia, or impact, then calling it Momentum is just dressing up a standard resource system. The whole archetype feels serviceable but uninspired.
All of the archetypes need to be looked at again after Intrepid fully commits to the physics layer. That is where the real potential of Ashes combat lives. Until that foundation is fully developed and understood, every class is being designed in a vacuum. Rogue works because it already leans into movement and timing. Ranger has flashes of brilliance but is stuck between two conflicting styles. Tank has the right idea in a few abilities, but most of the kit is outdated. Mage and Fighter are passable but fall short in impact and depth. Cleric simply plays like a bot. None of them will truly reach their potential until the core of the game — the physicality, force, momentum, and presence — is what drives their design. If that does not happen, Ashes will fall into the same trap as every other MMO and waste the opportunity to be something greater.
Group combat and grinding right now just feels flat. Ranged classes mostly set up auto attacks and stay stationary. Melee just stack next to the tank. The tank stands there and gets hit in the face. It is boring and plays out like every MMO I have already played. There is no real change, no evolution. The mobs are just mobs. Nothing stands out, and nothing challenges the group beyond basic aggro management. That is a huge miss considering how much emphasis is being placed on group content. Without more engaging AI and real combat mechanics, it just becomes a dull, linear race to the finish line. It is more of the same, and that is not what Ashes should be.
Rogue and Bard have great versatility and are just a joy to play. The movement, utility and synergy of these classes are outstanding. The class does the job it is intended to do. Bard are a jack of all trades and meet a huge need. Rogues move in and out of stealth, chose their engagements, have builds to do multiple things I.E mana drain/Poison/CC and great "get out of jail" abilities.
Which archetype do you find the least fun to play? Why?
I want to love Tank, but I can't. I have been a tank since 1996 in every single MMO I have ever played. Currently, this version of the tank is just not a fun experience. Aegis might actually be something people use if the mitigation change I mention below was implemented. The change to grit to make it spamable "busy work" is simply not fun. Iron Aura is 10 meters with no way to improve the range and the 5% defense is not worth the AoE root/DPS bombs that the game is built around. I'm not protecting anyone I'm just luring them in to die.
Node sieges are just a nightmare if you are allowed in. If you change mitigation to increase effectiveness based on the number of additional sources, you might make melee viable. It would also increases TTK for all classes in large scale combat instead of the instadeath madness we have now. I propose using mitigation similar to the way Albion Online uses resilience. https://wiki.albiononline.com/wiki/Focus_Fire
Wall is okay but it's too low. Grapple, Hector for the love of the 7 please be a hero and fix this!! Reflect does not actually appear to double you mitigation rating. Oh and it can be used without a shield for the same impact anyway and you can keep the DPS of a 2hander.
Also why isn't there an ability for tanks to spec into immediately that increases the mitigation/armor of the shield so that using a shield on the tank is something Tanks can spec into better than other classes?
I also believe Intimidating aura should apply humiliated.
Are there any combat systems or mechanics you feel need more development or refinement? Please explain.
As stated above mitigation could be changed so that effectiveness increases with additional sources. Currently melee is not even welcomed on the battle field for large scale combat. It's a major issue that's already been solved in other games I.E. Albion, that share the same problem. Range standoffs are boring for everyone.
During group combat or grinding sessions, do you feel any core features or gameplay elements are missing or underdeveloped? If yes, please describe.
PvE is pretty solid. The biggest combat issue I see is melee just being irrelevant and guilds not wanting them for PvP scenarios. Again, look at the 8v8, or node war data for characters impacting the battle field and it's very clear there is a problem. The solution should not be to play a better designed ranged character. When Summoner hits and we can use those as ranged Tanks for PvE the reason to ever play a tank will be greatly diminished.
The best, most well rounded classes are Bard and Rogue. They have a lot of options and play styles, a fluid kit, and unique mechanics to play around. They are the gold standard all other classes should aspire to be.
Warrior is fluid, but bland. It runs up and hits things. It doesn't do anything particularly unique or interesting, and isn't really the best at anything, or really have anything in the way of a core identity. Maybe if it had different skill lines based on weapons, like Sword, Axe, Hammer. Right now, it all bleeds together as indistinct 'melee'. It has a weak identity. Edit: Something I'd like to see added, would be an alternate stamina system for warriors. Which they can expend in the same ways, in addition to using for skills instead of MP, and can generate through a number of means. So that warriors a physical masters, that can run for longer, block and dodge more, and can wield a wide assortment of weapons.
Ranger likewise, is just the 'I have a bow' class. It's very one note, and lacks any kind of core class mechanic. It needs more to do the just bows and traps. Like animal companions, and more melee options such as kicks and short swords.
Clerics are bland as bland can be. And I typically love healers, and this just ain't it chief. All it does is heal, and occasionally throw out a holy spell. It has no breath or depth. Personally, I would take a page out of Guild Wars, with the Protection Monk. Ie spells that focus around damage mitigation, rather than healing.
Mage blows things up well, but lacks variety. Each of the elements don't really have enough depth to use to the exclusion of other elements, nor is there really enough difference between them. They all do damage, they all have minor additional conditions. It's all just color coded magic, rather than actual different studies of magic. Also, where the hell is Earth magic?
Tanks.... eh. I've never liked playing tanks, and this does nothing for me. The name sucks.