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How Solo Players (Basically) Saved MMOs From Going Extinct

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Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Ludullu wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Even back in 2004, if you were in a guild that was organized, you didn't need to use in game chat at all. You could complete quests, dungeons, raids, everything that is the core of an MMORPG, all without needing to use chat at all.
    True, I should've been clearer in that statement. By "single word in chat" I meant "no interaction with any other player in any way, including the forums, social media, audio apps, etc". You literally only log into the game, say nothing, but still clear the game just fine.

    This is what it took what you said to mean. I understand thst from a certain perspdcrive this is just a rewording of the same notion, but to me, the difference is quite major.
  • SunScriptSunScript Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Eh? There's definitely people out there making meaningful progress discussing how to save MMOs. They all understand solo players are how we got groupfinder and they remember how rage inducing solo players can be in those groups. Going to save my energy for talking to them.
    Bow before the Emperor and your lives shall be spared. Refuse to bow and your lives shall be speared.
  • LaetitianLaetitian Member
    edited August 9
    TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »
    Volgaris wrote: »
    I disagree. Solo players haven't kept genre alive, the success of games like WoW and FFXIV have kept publishers trend chasing trying to grab a market share. I won't say solo players have no affect, but I'd say little affect. If a game is good I'll play it. Pre OG WoW I was playing mmos, Pre EQ I was too. Post WoW we started to see cash shops, RMT, mass exploits, casino style reward systems, ect... All those things had much more impact on the health of MMOs than solo players. Then we players were hit with scam after scam and trash game after trash game. We became jaded. There were some good ones. Asherons, FFXI, DAoC, and so on, to be fair. But it only takes being burned once to make someone hesitant to try another.

    I'm confused to on what you're actually asking for. It all reads as platitudes. There's no details. You're just asking for more, or "widen the doors a little". But what do you want actually? A questing system with ? and ! and quest hubs that power level you to 50 in 2 days? Access to all content with auto queues to dungeons/raids ect? You said you want to explore, gather, craft, and engage in the economy, and you can even as a pure soloist. But will you be as good as a blacksmith that's in a guild that spends just as much time in the game as you do? Probably not. I'll feed my blacksmith materials and patterns just like everyone else in the guild. There's no way you can keep up with that pure solo. You could get lucky and find a rare pattern that others don't have, but then do you sell it or use it? What materials does it take to make it, can you get them all? Crafting is going to be interwoven, so armor smithing might rely on tailoring for some recipes. This will be a big focus in P3 (I think). A lot of these "accessibility" things like quest hub power leveling, or auto queue dungeons and raids, people are actively against. I think about the success of WoW classic. Blizzard kept telling players they didn't want vanilla wow, but they were dead wrong. Classic was massively successful, and I still think WoW is carebear difficulty. No perma death, no corpse run, no full loot drops, quest hubs and quest markers, fast travel?!? Easy easy easy.

    In the end, no (pure) solo players didn't save the genre, it would be fine without them. The genre has always been in trouble with the exception of peak WoW era. This is just my thoughts on it. But if you actually got something to add, ideas, mechanics, ect for solo activities make a post about those. They might in the queue and if it adds value to the game without sacrificing other aspects of the game maybe they'll add it. They're always looking for ideas. But make sure you know the core pillars the game stands on. Check out the wiki for what their take on PvX is, the balance of instance vs open world content and so on. No game is for everyone, it's not a bad thing to say, 'this game might not be for you", it might not be for me either. Can't please everyone.

    I’m also not asking for WoW-style power leveling or insta-queue dungeons. I’m talking about making sure people who start solo don’t just bounce because they’re not in a massive guild on day one. That doesn’t mean making the game “easy”, it just means giving them a way to feel useful and make progress until they find their crew.
    As someone who has played several solo-unfriendly MMOs that lasted for decades (admittedly niche, but a big part of that is due to the genre mainstream dominated player expectations as Volgaris pointed out above; a point you will continue to ignore), I need you to understand that solo levelling and insta-queue dungeons are only the surface of the issue.

    If this genre is ever meant to persist as something other than a continuously declining set of WoW clones, someone needs to change the way people approach the genre. A big part of that is moving away from the "log on to pass your sparetime" mindset towards a "log on to find someone to have an adventure with" mindset. You won't get that if you continue to bombard players with solo time waster opportunities.

    When people logged into Regnum Online or DaoC, they didn't log in to level up or see what the game had in store for them that night. They logged to drum up a group to make a dent in the enemy's defences with and work towards strengthening their realm together.

    When people logged into Dark Swords, they didn't log in to grind boars 10 levels higher in the village next to their spawn point.
    They logged in to find a group of adventurers that could safely escort them through swamps and mountains filled with unavoidable insta-wipe opponents, so they could reach distant quest objectives, take down high-xp encounters that required expensive buff potions and reliable coordination around the group's strengths and weaknesses, and finally to train at unique skill schools that could only be accessed in those perilous destinations.

    If you weren't in the mood to do those things, you just didn't log in at all.
    Or if you were genuinely so bored of your life that you did log in without socialising, you didn't do it to keep up with others' leveling pace or equipment - so the comparatively tiny XP reward wasn't an issue.

    *Those* are the types of gameplay loops and expectations we need to move towards if you ever want it to fulfil its potential instead of popping out more lifeless WoW clones as coping mechanisms for neckbeards who hate real life. Autogrouping is so far removed from where the genre needs to be, it's hardly even worth talking about.
    The only one who can validate you for all the posts you didn't write is you.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Laetitian wrote: »
    *Those* are the types of gameplay loops and expectations we need to move towards if you ever want it to fulfil its potential instead of popping out more lifeless WoW clones as coping mechanisms for neckbeards who hate real life. Autogrouping is so far removed from where the genre needs to be, it's hardly even worth talking about.
    GW2 might be the closest to what you're talking about. A horizontal game with equalized arena pvp that gives you gear (afaik). You'd pretty much just play it to hang out and enjoy the game, rather than to race towards something or outcompete someone.

    But I do find it interesting that I haven't really heard of other mmos attempting to do the same. Maybe it's exactly cause GW already exists and it's taken up the entire niche already, while the WoW-clones part of the industry isn't really niche, as was shown by WoW itself.
  • AszkalonAszkalon Member, Alpha Two
    I dare say no matter how many "Guild-Clips" you see -> for example WORST - OF - WARCAFT (since BfA) was definitely saved during Shadowlands by all the Solo Players.

    Or should i better say ... ... ... ... ... the GREED of Activision-stealmybreastmilk-LIZZARD was saved by them.

    Otherwise - i would have been really curious if the Game would have still made Plus Numbers regarding finances - during THE. LOWEST. PLAYER. COUNT. apparently recorded in WoW History up to date by then.

    Yes.
    Indeed.
    The Story Writing was indeed THAT bad.

    We are approaching a new Low like that since the last big Update however :D and i don't mean Spirits of Ka'resh. I mean the Return to Arathi-Update. lol
    a50whcz343yn.png
    ✓ Occasional Roleplayer
    I am in the guildless Guild so to say, lol. But i won't give up. I will find my fitting Guild "one Day".
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Ludullu wrote: »
    But I do find it interesting that I haven't really heard of other mmos attempting to do the same. Maybe it's exactly cause GW already exists and it's taken up the entire niche already, while the WoW-clones part of the industry isn't really niche, as was shown by WoW itself.

    This is exactly it.

    The core of the MMORPG genre is getting some friends, and running a dungeon. This is the gameplay loop the genre was built on. This is your WoW, both EQ's, FFXIV (from my understanding), ESO, Rift, LotRO, etc. Each of these games do this loop a little differently, but they all have that core.

    MMORPG's that are based around anything else are niche (which doesn't necessarily mean unpopular). A game like GW2 can only really be a one off within the genre - there isnt really scope for more games with that specific type of deviation from the core of the genre.
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