pvp - full loot ?

anyone know if it will be full / partial loot? im really hoping they dont give into the carebears (+ nearly every mmo is designed around them), it ruins gaming i like the harsh penaltys on pvp but to put risks like that surely means high reward right? dont get me wrong ill still watch the developement if not but since i saw a post up about kickstarter id gladly pledge right now if there is finally a quality mmo with open full loot pvp.

stealing from houses?

also do we have any info on the combat system i saw it being tabtarget but more free to paraphrase. any idea if its more an assisted free aim? i just dislike how nearly all mmos use tab target, it removes most of the skill from the game :/

i apologize in advance if it any of theese have been answered but i dont have time to go digging recently.
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Comments

  • Full loot has it's pro's and cons.
    The biggest con is that it will invite gankers and grievers.

    Most MMO's have a penalty that's too hard, making PvP unrewarding. This game says it will allow meaningfull PvP. And without different factions, it might either mean Guild vs Guild or PvP during certain scenarios.

    I believe a rewarding PvP system with Full/partial loot is a great addition to any immersive MMO. But it has to be "regulated" in some way.

    You could allow PvP (No penalty) in certain zones, but that could mean that the zone could just be ruled by the biggest no-brainer guild.

    You could allow PvP during certain scenario's like city sieges, generated events. (Think of a NPC walking to a local towncrier, telling a certain "object" has been located nearby, filled with treasure. And then allow PvP around that spot.


    It requires a lot of balancing. But since the creator says he will combine the good elements of many MMO's, i believe he will create a PvP system that's Rewarding.
  • im all for full loot, i play both reds and blues so to speak, the system before tram in UO was glorious and adrenalin pumping regardless of the win / loose it was fun, if you loose stuff when you die you just run to the nearest town ask for help and usually it ended up as a witch hunt, that made moments worth playing (i like being on both sides of those, being hunted is a good skill test and being the hunter has its merit) that said i do like partial loot games also ( for those ware gear isnt easily replaced ) in the context of everything not equipped can be taken.

    and i saw the meaningful pvp but the downside is for good pvp it has to be everyware (outside of towns if your prefer) or you may as well make another wow. im just saying this because if not than everyone whos not the current strategy sites meta (and since this is likely not a skill based game ((tab-target)) will safe zone sit. strait out fights are great, but can get boring and limited, ambushes add to the flavor terrain helps alot in open world fights (like standing on a cliff shooting down at a melee class who has to run around) ware as in only certain areas makes it predictable and stagnant.

    as for regulations, the simple branding for murder is good enough in some games, and bounties add some more flavor, but game like the division that ping your location make it anoying because the only thing you can do is run when everyone in the region is coming down on you from all sides.

    but thats just my two cents

    anyway thankyou for your answer :)

    -forgot to add: the caravans pvp thing def sounds fun, if they pull it off right i know ware ill be
  • all the information that has been officially released can be found <a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/faqs-about-ashes-of-creation/">here</a> however from memory i do remember hearing that certain skills do require different methods of targeting, going to have to wait for "official" confirmation on that one though :)
  • full loot is needed if you want to create any type of real sandbox economy
  • thanks for the link, i did read it but hoped there was more info someware else. its pretty vague and at this point could mean anything, but i guess ill have to keep watching :)
  • [quote quote=772]full loot is needed if you want to create any type of real sandbox economy

    [/quote]

    Not really, armour and weapon durability can easily do that even without full loot.

    I've read so many times that full loot system makes games more intense and you feel the risk, but the be honest that's just full of hogwash, what you do is you craft or make other craft friend/guild plenty of backup armour and weapons you just stash in your bank so you can easily refit when you lose everything.
    There are no risk whatsoever with full loot system when you have plenty of backup gear in bank, so just let that one go.

    I know because I had a lot of backup gear in my bank in Darkfall, had a lot of ready to go fitted ships in EVE.
  • <blockquote>I’ve read so many times that full loot system makes games more intense and you feel the risk, but the be honest that’s just full of hogwash</blockquote>

    not everyone can play full time, and spending a few hours of the day gathering just to loose a shipment can leave an impact.. its not something you cry and quit over but its still enough to evoke some feeling



    <blockquote>what you do is you craft or make other craft friend/guild plenty of backup armour and weapons you just stash in your bank so you can easily refit when you lose everything.</blockquote>

    Most players dont get into crafting. then what they need is gold gold probably comes from ingame time, alot of people dont have all day to play. to those its risky. and that risk comes from lost time.



    <blockquote>I know because I had a lot of backup gear in my bank in Darkfall, had a lot of ready to go fitted ships in EVE.</blockquote>

    i never played eve but mostly what i get from when i looked at it is its a waste of time, alot of people complain because only the bigger people can get anyware within a decent time frame

    as far as darkfall - the gear is as basic as it gets. of course it was easy to replace. i didnt get to far into that one though, the lack of quality and the fact that devs deleted entire guilds wile QQing because thier hacks and imba updates in favor of thier build, couldnt save them and most people know it. on a side note i do miss stealing horses
  • This is a tough topic for me. With 100% loot on PKs, I'm afraid that 90% of people will have "generic" gear that achieves a certain ROI (return on investment). Gear that costs 50% of "elite" gear and yield 80-90% of the effect. There will, of course, be tiers of this generic gear based on levels, but nonetheless it will be generic. Think of Runescape, back in the day; milthril, adamantine, rune. In this case, gear becomes of little value or significance, except for the ultra-elite PKers on the hunt or siege based guild combat. While some would say this is what PvP should be, I believe it could alienate "carebears" or "casuals" who would just stop trying, since they couldn't compete. Implementation of a Mystic Forge as in Guild Wars 2 could perhaps lend value to masses of generic gear, and then elite gear could be had via crafting or Pking the generic gear, throwing it into a lottery, and winning a certain amount of time. Then again, this sounds like a boring version of gear recycling.

    With limited loot, say 75%, or perhaps certain levels of gear being "safe," players have a goal of of at least acquiring some elite pieces through grinding that they wouldn't lose in an instant to a higher level PKer. Perhaps players could select which pieces are "safe," but that number either disappears or is diminished when they flag. There would be the possibility of a player forgetting to secure certain gear, or having more nice pieces than can be protected. Or there might be even more PvP against those that are known PvPers that might have their spoils still on their character at any given time.
  • I am not an expert on PvP and personally have little interest in it.

    Full loot I think is not the issue, but getting ganked is!
    Maybe there is some way someone on the hunt for loot, could see if the target is worth the effort attacking and being marked as a murderer?
    If I am out picking herbs or something like that, the attacker should be able to see that my trowel is not made of gold and rubies.
    Also maybe have bounties on serial killers or something like that.

    There should be risk on both sides, but if you venture out in your shiny suit, you should expect someone to try and acquire it from you.
  • love the way you put it jace :)
  • [quote quote=883]I am not an expert on PvP and personally have little interest in it.

    Full loot I think is not the issue, but getting ganked is!
    Maybe there is some way someone on the hunt for loot, could see if the target is worth the effort attacking and being marked as a murderer?
    If I am out picking herbs or something like that, the attacker should be able to see that my trowel is not made of gold and rubies.
    Also maybe have bounties on serial killers or something like that.

    There should be risk on both sides, but if you venture out in your shiny suit, you should expect someone to try and acquire it from you.

    [/quote]

    Could not have said it any better. Kinda reminds me of the PK system from the first arc of SAO which I think would work great. Players that tend to love PvP/PK should be marked and the policing party which takes down the killer should be rewarded greatly too hence the full loot combat. This system would greatly enhance the caravan trading as the PvP/PK lovers can go at it to steal the loot but on the flip side the players can hire other player to defend their caravans which can also have ups and downs like betrayals. This would really make for an interesting system that can get anyone to participate. Lots of people like to roleplay as bandits as well as law abiding heroes.
  • I think best choice will be insurance for items. If someone kill, will gain 50% cash from insurance these items. If items are not insured its drops.
  • Any new information about this? The only MMOS I found enjoyable were UO, and eve online. Decent full loot games are few and far between.
  • There's almost zero chance this will be full loot. They're planning on having full size raids. I don't really think letting someone steal a raid boss weapon would go over to well.
  • [quote quote=6543]There’s almost zero chance this will be full loot. They’re planning on having full size raids. I don’t really think letting someone steal a raid boss weapon would go over to well.

    [/quote]

    Cool there is almost zero chance I will play this then. I would rather go to the weapons smith to get my high end weapons. Raiding and non full loot is pretty much the same thing as any of the tens of thousands of post WOW free to play titles on steam. Oh well, I will just keep waiting for something else.
  • As opposed too the tens of thousands of full loot pvp survival games? If you read up on this game a little bit you'll find its actually going to be quite a unique mmo
  • Cookie cutter survival games have nothing to do with the cookie cutter mechanics of this MMO, which I wont be playing. Nice deflection bro.
  • Bye then
  • Pretty sure the devs are going for a large massive game and sorry but free for all full loot pvp only appeals to a minority of players
  • UO and Eve online are both massive, and pull off full loot perfectly, in different ways. It's obvious by the failure rate of cookie cutter games in general that people find that stuff played out. There were a few full loot MMOS that came out and failed, they were't very good games though.

    I am totally not interested in this game. I saw a video on youtube, and this looked pretty good. It's just gonna be more of the same crap.
  • They said in an interview that it will be partial looting.

    From the interview:

    "In any case, all this comes to a head via death penalties. A Non-Combatant who dies suffers normal penalties, which includes experience debt, durability loss, as well as dropping a portion of carried raw materials (which can then be looted). A Combatant who dies suffers these same penalties, but at half the Non-Combatant rate. A character who has a Corruption Score on the other hand, suffers penalties at three times the rate of a Non-Combatant, and has a chance to drop *any* carried/equipped items based on their current Corruption Score."
  • currently they are entertaining different mechanics for the loot system however in regards to looting players Steven has said this

    "Currently when players die to other players, the death penalties incurred will include a portion of the deceased player's resources/gatherables dropping. Player's will have a very limited space for these types of items in their inventory, as we intend the caravan/mule system to be the primary mode of transportation in regards to these goods." - Steven #ask_intrepid
  • Well if the devs of this game vision doesn't do it for you good luck on finding your next mmo, I know first hand how frustrating it can be. Hopefully one of the other upcomming mmos will better suit your needs
  • [quote quote=6570]Well if the devs of this game vision doesn’t do it for you good luck on finding your next mmo, I know first hand how frustrating it can be. Hopefully one of the other upcomming mmos will better suit your needs

    [/quote]

    Thanks, I am sure something will pop up sooner or later. I'm even finding single player games don't catch my interest as much anymore. Maybe I just need a break from gaming lol.
  • yeah steven confirmed what i already assumed in another thread a great way to pvp will be the caravans ganking a caravan killing the mates and stealing the goods from their mules
  • There should be open world PVP, but full loot becomes really frustrating in time, or is it just me who does not like it? I like the way where developers are going with PvP more, I like these death penalties which are going to decrease our drops and Caravan mode sounds really promising, let's see what they will come up.
  • [quote quote=772]full loot is needed if you want to create any type of real sandbox economy

    [/quote]

    False. SWG didnt have any PVP looting and the Sandbox Economy worked fine. They are not going to do Full PVP loot no matter what because they know that; that group of players is such a small portion of the MMORPG population that the game will be like live support the entire time.
  • [quote quote=6544]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/pvp-full-loot/#post-6543" rel="nofollow">Darthaden wrote:</a></div>
    There’s almost zero chance this will be full loot. They’re planning on having full size raids. I don’t really think letting someone steal a raid boss weapon would go over to well.

    </blockquote>
    Cool there is almost zero chance I will play this then. I would rather go to the weapons smith to get my high end weapons. Raiding and non full loot is pretty much the same thing as any of the tens of thousands of post WOW free to play titles on steam. Oh well, I will just keep waiting for something else.

    [/quote]

    The move along and know that outside of survival games you will not have a populated MMORPG with Full PVP loot because it is such a small portion of the MMORPG population there is no way to develop and keep a game running around that. Albion online is one game like that and that has a low population.
  • [quote quote=827]
    not everyone can play full time, and spending a few hours of the day gathering just to loose a shipment can leave an impact.. its not something you cry and quit over but its still enough to evoke some feeling

    [/quote]

    I fully support a partial loot system, but this is truly one of the big problems with full loot. Not everyone's game time is equivalent, and so full loot creates an overly punitive structure for lesser gametime players who can't get the resources to buy multiple backups and doesn't really affect those who have logged the hours to have multiple sets of gear. You could make it less punitive by making equipment not mean as much, but then you also kill much of the risk/reward in a full loot system since your rewards don't really mean as much (plus you lessen one of the areas of customization in any MMO).

    However, I'd love to see a full inventory loot system (anything you've picked up farming or from other players drops) while also having some kind of equipped items durability loss (without ability to repair). I think those partial loot systems strike a good balance between the incentive/thrill of risk with open world pvp while also not being overly punitive/requiring other game mechanics to compensate.
  • [quote quote=743]anyone know if it will be full / partial loot? im really hoping they dont give into the carebears (+ nearly every mmo is designed around them), it ruins gaming i like the harsh penaltys on pvp but to put risks like that surely means high reward right? dont get me wrong ill still watch the developement if not but since i saw a post up about kickstarter id gladly pledge right now if there is finally a quality mmo with open full loot pvp.

    stealing from houses?

    also do we have any info on the combat system i saw it being tabtarget but more free to paraphrase. any idea if its more an assisted free aim? i just dislike how nearly all mmos use tab target, it removes most of the skill from the game :/

    i apologize in advance if it any of theese have been answered but i dont have time to go digging recently.

    [/quote]

    Please dont tell me that action combat requires any kind of skill over tab-target. Action combat is just as easy as any other combat system unless you're missing 80% of your brain cells. BDO was the best example of how bad action combat actually is, since it's just braindead aoe spam simulator.
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