What features you dislike in MMOs and hope Ashes won't have?

As each MMORPGs have some good features (GW2 mounts, crafting system of SWG, housing of Wildstar *RIP* etc), they have some bad ones as well. They tend to have very similar features to WoW and other traditional MMORPGs which most people dislike and think they're outdated. There are two features I see in MMOs and despise. One of them is the 'artificial' feel most of MMOs in which case you just click stuff to do things with the mouse pointer (kills the immersion and looks ugly tbh). The other is boring and non skill based combat (both action: spamming abilities in order and tab: pressing buttons at the right time...) So, what features you don't want to see in Ashes of Creation?

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Damokles

@Zorish
They could easily fix the Tank/Healer/DD ratio, if they make off tanks or healer viable in lower level dungeons^^ (Offtanks like Sirens(Bard/Tank), or Dreadnaughts(Fighter/Tank) and Off healers like Soubow(Bard/Cleric) and Paladin(Tank/Healer) They dont have to be as good as Tank/Tanks or Cleric/Cleric, but just able to tank/heal lower dungeons with the right gear.

OrcLuck

I don't mind minimaps, but only give one to the ranger. Their expertise should draw players to want them to help guide them.

Jubilum

Non-consensual pvp for obvious reasons. Also content overload. The game isn't even in alpha yet and I'm already feeling overwhelmed by the amount of content they are talking about putting in the game. When I play I want to play not spending 100's of hour figuring out how to play. I don't have the patience to learn another Eve Online which has taken me 11 years to even feel comfortable and I still suck.

Epy00

I think summoning your mount from your inventory is stupid. I think the concept of having to park your mount somewhere safe, keep it fed, etc. adds to the fun/danger potential.

noemad

hackerson wrote: »

lags! Shoutout to Lotro

Man I haven't thought of LOTRO in years. Is it still going? I only played for a couple of years but I still have my lifetime subscription.

Roko

Zorish wrote: »

4- Make tanking/healing characters experience fun. Many MMOs almost punish you for going Healer/DPS, having really hard time leveling.

OMG i agree with this so much

Wandering Mist

Epy00 wrote: »

I think summoning your mount from your inventory is stupid. I think the concept of having to park your mount somewhere safe, keep it fed, etc. adds to the fun/danger potential.

Be careful what you wish for. Just as too much convenience can take away from the immersion, so can too much "realism" take away from the fun. Red Dead Redemption 2 had horse care like you are describing and it turned that part of the game into a chore.

It's one of those things that sounds fun on paper, but when you actually have to do it regularly it becomes very annoying.

Jubilum

A mini map is helpful but not a necessity. But a world map showing your location, nodes, and points of interest is a must have. Nothing worse than wandering around for hours having no idea where you are or even what direction you are traveling.

Dygz

Endgame.
Non-consensual PvP combat.

Azryil

Dygz wrote: »

Endgame.
Non-consensual PvP combat.

This seems unlikely on both counts

StreetCornerPoet

1) I hate how newer MMOs have ditched the control and buff/debuff classes. I loved Enchanters in EQ and Skalds in DAoC. Give me a mezz/charm or a buff/debuff class.

2) This might be an odd one. I love story, I hate how MMOs don't ever have a story/ single player version of instanced dungeons and raids. I don't want loot, achievs, or anything for free, but I would love to see a version of content that I could hop into during an off time or maybe my guild isn't at a certain raid yet and I can pop in and see the story of whatever it is just to say I've seen it even if it is with different mechanics so I can't go in and figure out the mechanics single player and still have to learn the real raid/dungeon.

3) As others have said: Saying you won't have P2W items, then having them.

4) Mobs taking like 50 kills to drop that 1 fracking item you need for a "gather x" type quest. Not every mob has to drop it, but the majority should.

5) Saying you have exploration and yet having nothing really interesting to explore outside an achievement. I've seen so many empty/boring areas I had to visit to "explore" an area, at least give me an interesting vista.

6) I don't think this one can ever really be solved, because its partly based on the perspective of the player builds, but having the "This build of X class is the only viable build, if you aren't built like X respec or stop playing." With so many class variants you have planned its going to be important that each class/subclass can be effective, not the best, but just effective throughout the game. There will always be best builds that will change with patches, but there should be plenty of variety in good builds to play for each roll.

Wandering Mist

@GrimHarlequin regarding your last point, a lot of that comes down to community perception and blindly copying whatever the top players do. I've seen it in so many different games but here are a couple of examples:

One of the reasons why I quit raiding in GW2 was because I got sick of being told by the community "you need this exact set up in order to beat the boss" even though there were plenty of examples of groups who had beaten the bosses with non-meta set ups.

Second, in WoW players would only take classes that were used during the Mythic Dungeon International tournament. Nothing else was considered viable.

tarros

I just want to point this out about the LFG/LFM functions of a game. It is needed for people who either are casual enough that they do not fit into a guild because their hours will never work with others. There is also the people who just want to play solo and only once in a while want to be part of something bigger. I understand that some MMOs have ruined the LFG/LFM aspects of MMOs but at the same time I bet every single one of you have met a group of people and built a relationship due to the LFG/LFM functions of an MMO.

I am 100% on board with the lack of hand holding. One of things I LOVED soooooooo much about vanilla WoW was the difficulty of killings mobs. It made me want to go seek out other players to complete a task or quest. The most cherished memories of my MMO history was from the random groups that were picked up out in the wild due to a mutual goal of killing an elite or completing a quest faster. Just being like "Oh, hi there you are doing X quest also want to group up and help each other out?". It gives you that warm fuzzy feeling that the community is not lifeless zombies (besides Nagash) and the world is just empty.

One thing I HATE in any MMO is the endless hacking of a simple MOB like a freaking bunny rabbit! If I am going to be fighting something for more than 3 mins it better be something important.

noemad

Personally I like having a minimap if only to keep me from having to stop every 5 minutes to open my main map and see if I'm still going in the right direction. I tend to harvest a lot while on my way to where the quest is leading me so that can lead to a lot of wandering off my path if I see some node off in the distance.

I do like limited fast travel like how EQ2 did the fast travel and map. You had the wall of gray on your map and you had to explore the region to clear it. As you clear it you would discover griffin towers that were the hub of the fast travel system. You could only fast travel to the towers you had discovered. This made it so you had to explore the region on foot first but once you had done so you could fast travel. IMO it was the right amount of convenience. As you would progress in level and move farther and farther out into the world it could get tedious trying to get around without fast travel. I don't feel the need to run across 4 zones to get back to my home city (Qeynos) so I can craft and put things up for sale and then run back across the same 4 zones to get back to the area I'm adventuring in. I can remember going with people who hadn't explored some areas yet and we'd spend 20-30 minutes just running across the world to get to our quest area.

OrcLuck

LieutenantToast wrote: »

wanderingmist wrote: »

Escort missions where the person you are escorting moves slower than a snail and stops every few meters for some arbitrary reason.

Ha! I mentioned something similar in our recent Dev Discussion thread - I'm of the personal opinion that these kinds of quests should be nuked from orbit

Seems like there's a common theme in this thread and throughout our community in general that "hand-holding" is no fun - you'd rather be thrown in the deep end of an adventure, with all its challenges! This often means collaboration amongst the community is necessary to accomplish tasks, and I saw a few people bring up the fact that a "dungeon finder" or "LFG" tool can be a bit on the hand-holdy side. Thoughts?

I think part of the problem is that a LFG thing, isn't in game texture thing. If you want to find a group for a dungeon, having a meeting place for that to take place makes the game. I don't want any teleporting in that process.

Instead of needing to go out of your way and park yourself out in the boonies at the entrance of the dungeon, I feel if you grouped in town for that same dungeon, or were queued, and then had to meet up at the tavern, you would 100% not care about a queuing system.

LFR is literally toxic though, not only does it remove any incentive for you to go out of your way and meet someone, it basically anonymizing whom you're playing with. You're going to forget the past garbage group that collapses and go on to the next, essentially forgetting everyone in the last group, because the process was so streamlined you essentially go brain dead, and only do the most basic rout strategies to get things done. You aren't going to go through the process of fixing a bad group, you're just going to queue again after failing and blocking the last team so you don't get them again, or the few problem players again, in your queue.

BlackBrony

tarros wrote: »

I just want to point this out about the LFG/LFM functions of a game. It is needed for people who either are casual enough that they do not fit into a guild because their hours will never work with others. There is also the people who just want to play solo and only once in a while want to be part of something bigger.

In my experience most of the time, this turns in like this:

Player 1 joins, P2, p3, etc... kill boss, do dungeon, kill boss. Not even a single word unless you find issues.

It's not always like that, but it feels like taking the bus. You don't engage with strangers. Meanwhile you might talk to your uber driver, somehow there's some sort of rapport.

Also LFG doesn't help newbies either. The functionality is there, you use it, you're a new tank who never tanked, but the game let's you tank. So now you have 3-5 people teaching you to tank or raging at you.
I've seen this happen, and many people using LFG might want to do something fast.

Finally, I understand wanting to play solo, but we're coming back to "cater to every time of gameplay" and in my opinion this is what makes a game lose its identity.
If Dark Souls would have an easy mode, it's not DS anymore. If the game HELPS you isolate yourself and lets you do all content without any other players, it's losing its massive identity as well.

Azryil

Zorish wrote: »

tarros wrote: »

I just want to point this out about the LFG/LFM functions of a game. It is needed for people who either are casual enough that they do not fit into a guild because their hours will never work with others. There is also the people who just want to play solo and only once in a while want to be part of something bigger.

In my experience most of the time, this turns in like this:

Player 1 joins, P2, p3, etc... kill boss, do dungeon, kill boss. Not even a single word unless you find issues.

It's not always like that, but it feels like taking the bus. You don't engage with strangers. Meanwhile you might talk to your uber driver, somehow there's some sort of rapport.

Also LFG doesn't help newbies either. The functionality is there, you use it, you're a new tank who never tanked, but the game let's you tank. So now you have 3-5 people teaching you to tank or raging at you.
I've seen this happen, and many people using LFG might want to do something fast.

Finally, I understand wanting to play solo, but we're coming back to "cater to every time of gameplay" and in my opinion this is what makes a game lose its identity.
If Dark Souls would have an easy mode, it's not DS anymore. If the game HELPS you isolate yourself and lets you do all content without any other players, it's losing its massive identity as well.

Just because we want some soloable content doesn't mean that we want to be able to complete all content solo without having to talk to anyone. Not all content has to require a group to complete.
The leveling process should be largely soloable, though it could be faster and more efficient if you had a group of friends to quest with, throw in the some dungeon and group quests here and there to get people to work together. Once we reach level cap I think most content should require some level of cooperation but there should still be a handful of smaller items that can be soloable.

tarros

Zorish wrote: »

tarros wrote: »

I just want to point this out about the LFG/LFM functions of a game. It is needed for people who either are casual enough that they do not fit into a guild because their hours will never work with others. There is also the people who just want to play solo and only once in a while want to be part of something bigger.

In my experience most of the time, this turns in like this:

Player 1 joins, P2, p3, etc... kill boss, do dungeon, kill boss. Not even a single word unless you find issues.

It's not always like that, but it feels like taking the bus. You don't engage with strangers. Meanwhile you might talk to your uber driver, somehow there's some sort of rapport.

Also LFG doesn't help newbies either. The functionality is there, you use it, you're a new tank who never tanked, but the game let's you tank. So now you have 3-5 people teaching you to tank or raging at you.
I've seen this happen, and many people using LFG might want to do something fast.

Finally, I understand wanting to play solo, but we're coming back to "cater to every time of gameplay" and in my opinion this is what makes a game lose its identity.
If Dark Souls would have an easy mode, it's not DS anymore. If the game HELPS you isolate yourself and lets you do all content without any other players, it's losing its massive identity as well.

How does that not help a newbie? You either learn through assistance of other people or through being thrown to the wolves. At that point if you did not learn anything than maybe MMOs are not for you.

If dark souls was an MMO it would not be the DS you know now. DS is a single player game and people are purchasing it understanding that there is a set guide line. With ZERO chance of missing out on content since only you the single player can progress the game. On top of that from a business point of view the developers put out a game and whatever happens happens after the game is published. There is no continues large development and loss of resources once it is out there.

Success requires to cater to multiple play styles and you can still obtain the identity of the game. Being a solo player especially in AoC you are already going to miss out on a lot of content. So why make it harder? If AoC is not even remotely casual friendly content wise it will fail. It is a common trend with games that aren't casual friendly. There is FAR more casual players than hardcore players.

OrcLuck

tarros wrote: »

How does that not help a newbie? You either learn through assistance of other people or through being thrown to the wolves. At that point if you did not learn anything than maybe MMOs are not for you.

If dark souls was an MMO it would not be the DS you know now. DS is a single player game and people are purchasing it understanding that there is a set guide line. With ZERO chance of missing out on content since only you the single player can progress the game. On top of that from a business point of view the developers put out a game and whatever happens happens after the game is published. There is no continues large development and loss of resources once it is out there.

Success requires to cater to multiple play styles and you can still obtain the identity of the game. Being a solo player especially in AoC you are already going to miss out on a lot of content. So why make it harder? If AoC is not even remotely casual friendly content wise it will fail. It is a common trend with games that aren't casual friendly. There is FAR more casual players than hardcore players.

It might be a trial through fire...but this is a video game. I've long since lost my patience to deal with annoying people, whom expect the world of you, but won't put in the effort to teach you.

If they don't spend any effort in grouping or in communicating about skill levels or anything they're going to not care about your feelings either and just ditch you after running you through a gutter.

Ya you learn, or you learn that, the game doesn't mean enough to you, to have to put yourself through the grinder of nasty people.

Amist

Raid- and dungeon finders

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