Thoughts on the directors letter?

In my opinion I thought it was pretty good, we got the promised dates as well as showings of caravans and MMORPG systems like the mayoral system. I think the letter was a far step up from before, I'm glad to see systems in game even though they clearly aren't finished. Thanks again for the wonderful work from everybody at intrepid, the community believes in you and we'll be here august 20th for suree!!!

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Jahlon

wanderingmist wrote: »

nagash wrote: »

you want my honest opinion.

It was a waste of time and hype as always.

we have no new date for any of the other testing modes. we have nothing about the MMO and to top it off the are re-releasing the BR.

all I can say is **** you Intrepid

What do you mean "they are re-releasing the BR"? APOC isn't a finished product that they are re-releasing. It is a testing platform, nothing more, nothing less. Its sole purpose is to test the netcode, servers and basic combat mechanics in a controlled environment. The key word in there is "TEST". At this point in the development process we aren't really playing the game, we are helping the developers test it. Those are 2 entirely different things.

I honestly don't know what you expect from an mmorpg that has only been in development for 3.5 years.

It being a testing platform, nothing more, nothing less really depends on where the person is pulling their soundbite from. It has been everything from a testing phase, to a standalone product with its own monetization model.

neuroguy

jahlon wrote: »

It being a testing platform, nothing more, nothing less really depends on where the person is pulling their soundbite from. It has been everything from a testing phase, to a standalone product with its own monetization model.

It can be all of those things at different times. A testing platform now, then later a standalone product. As a standalone product it may have its own monetization scheme. No matter the intentions behind it, apoc will be helpful for AoC mmo. If the question is: is it the optimal way to help further AoC mmo? yeah, maybe not (I don't know) but does it really matter? People will demand things faster even if it is/were optimal.

Side note: truly worst case scenario (for most) is where the mmo is scrapped and IS tries to make money off apoc or w.e. I just don't get the point of worrying about it... will the feeling of "I knew it" or "I told you so" really matter at that point? You trusted an idea, the execution will hopefully satisfy you. Relax and enjoy the ride.

Azryil

neuroguy wrote: »

jahlon wrote: »

It being a testing platform, nothing more, nothing less really depends on where the person is pulling their soundbite from. It has been everything from a testing phase, to a standalone product with its own monetization model.

It can be all of those things at different times. A testing platform now, then later a standalone product. As a standalone product it may have its own monetization scheme. No matter the intentions behind it, apoc will be helpful for AoC mmo. If the question is: is it the optimal way to help further AoC mmo? yeah, maybe not (I don't know) but does it really matter? People will demand things faster even if it is/were optimal.

Side note: truly worst case scenario (for most) is where the mmo is scrapped and IS tries to make money off apoc or w.e. I just don't get the point of worrying about it... will the feeling of "I knew it" or "I told you so" really matter at that point? You trusted an idea, the execution will hopefully satisfy you. Relax and enjoy the ride.

I have faith that IS isn't going to scrap the MMO in favor of APOC, I think the larger issue with APOC is that regardless of whether it's a testing phase or a standalone product, the community backed an MMO, and giving us a BR is a tough sell for a lot of people.

neuroguy

arzosah wrote: »

I have faith that IS isn't going to scrap the MMO in favor of APOC, I think the larger issue with APOC is that regardless of whether it's a testing phase or a standalone product, the community backed an MMO, and giving us a BR is a tough sell for a lot of people.

The "community" at any given time consists of those who bitch the loudest. The "community" will never be happy, not if they had no information, a br or a complete mmo. This will continue into launch and beyond.

It's fine to be upset though, you need to represent your opinions for IS to see. I'm just expressing mine

Wandering Mist

neuroguy wrote: »

arzosah wrote: »

I have faith that IS isn't going to scrap the MMO in favor of APOC, I think the larger issue with APOC is that regardless of whether it's a testing phase or a standalone product, the community backed an MMO, and giving us a BR is a tough sell for a lot of people.

The "community" at any given time consists of those who bitch the loudest. The "community" will never be happy, not if they had no information, a br or a complete mmo. This will continue into launch and beyond.

It's fine to be upset though, you need to represent your opinions for IS to see. I'm just expressing mine .

This is very true. Unfortunately games development is littered with examples of companies failing to deliver on their promises, lying to their players and generally just being complete assholes. The result of this is that many players have become very cynical and jaded, not trusting anything until it actually delivers what was promised.

We've just been burned too many times not to fear the fire, as it were. There are actually very few games companies whose word I trust anymore (Fromsoftware and Nintendo being notable examples).

Damokles

My reaction:

Jahlon

neuroguy wrote: »

jahlon wrote: »

It being a testing platform, nothing more, nothing less really depends on where the person is pulling their soundbite from. It has been everything from a testing phase, to a standalone product with its own monetization model.

It can be all of those things at different times. A testing platform now, then later a standalone product. As a standalone product it may have its own monetization scheme. No matter the intentions behind it, apoc will be helpful for AoC mmo. If the question is: is it the optimal way to help further AoC mmo? yeah, maybe not (I don't know) but does it really matter? People will demand things faster even if it is/were optimal.

Side note: truly worst case scenario (for most) is where the mmo is scrapped and IS tries to make money off apoc or w.e. I just don't get the point of worrying about it... will the feeling of "I knew it" or "I told you so" really matter at that point? You trusted an idea, the execution will hopefully satisfy you. Relax and enjoy the ride.

Except it has been called both a testing platform and a standalone product by Intrepid, which is what I meant by when you get your soundbite.

neuroguy

jahlon wrote: »

Except it has been called both a testing platform and a standalone product by Intrepid, which is what I meant by when you get your soundbite.

I'm unclear on your point. Whether it is labelled a "testing platform" or "standalone product" currently doesn't change its functional role for the AoC mmo, it only changes its own (apoc's) future. And again, it can be more than one thing over time.

Wololo

i still dont get the seasonpass. if someone found the br and wanted to play only the br and not the mmo and did buy the season pass now that person wouldnt be able to play for half a year alrdy xd

OrcLuck

Their hesitance to show us any of the flaws of the MMO, but their willingness to expose people to the APOC product in its unfinished state, and then taking away that product for a fix for the MMO shows their priorities. So that's nice....but...it also shows their willingness to give players an incomplete experience to cash in on a popular trend, that they were too late to capitalize on. So it sorta shows a schism in their thinking. When planning is going on thats supposed to be pretty far flung thinking, to see this scramble to get another product out, is kind of a terrible red flag for signs of health.
Critically thought out and deep insight is what we need from Steven and his vision. I feel that a desire for there to be less of a sunk cost for testing, is just kind of a pipe dream. The costs of doing APOC poorly will reflect on the marketing for the MMO, which when you think about it, is what all this radio silence is supposed to achieve. However word of mouth is the power they're hoping to utilize here and yet its the biggest risk they're taking by exposing people to APOC and then cutting access to APOC abruptly, is very disruptive to the players they'd hope to gain and this is a pretty niche genre with a tight community of media. Doing stuff like this again is really not a good idea.

Wandering Mist

zomnivore wrote: »

Their hesitance to show us any of the flaws of the MMO, but their willingness to expose people to the APOC product in its unfinished state, and then taking away that product for a fix for the MMO shows their priorities. So that's nice....but...it also shows their willingness to give players an incomplete experience to cash in on a popular trend, that they were too late to capitalize on. So it sorta shows a schism in their thinking. When planning is going on thats supposed to be pretty far flung thinking, to see this scramble to get another product out, is kind of a terrible red flag for signs of health.
Critically thought out and deep insight is what we need from Steven and his vision. I feel that a desire for there to be less of a sunk cost for testing, is just kind of a pipe dream. The costs of doing APOC poorly will reflect on the marketing for the MMO, which when you think about it, is what all this radio silence is supposed to achieve. However word of mouth is the power they're hoping to utilize here and yet its the biggest risk they're taking by exposing people to APOC and then cutting access to APOC abruptly, is very disruptive to the players they'd hope to gain and this is a pretty niche genre with a tight community of media. Doing stuff like this again is really not a good idea.

Again this idea that APOC is a "product" in its own right. Where exactly are you getting this impression from? Everything I have read suggests that it is nothing more than a testing platform. And quite frankly, if Intrepid need to test their servers and infrastructure, can you think of a better way of doing it?

Maybe they plan on turning it into its own stand-a-lone product/game mode later on down the line, but right now they are using it to stress test the servers and the core combat systems. And yes, of course they are going to expose people to an unfinished product during the testing phases of development. How else are they supposed to stress test their servers and performance in a realistic setting?????

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, so with many games these days charging full price for early access and all that bullshit, which is simply an excuse for companies to release their game unfinished. That is NOT what is happening here with Ashes or APOC. Please, for the love of GOD stop judging Intrepid on the actions of the other shithole companies in this goddamn industry. This kind of stupid paranoia doesn't do anyone any good, so grow the fuck up and wait.

Azryil

@wanderingmist in the livestream when they announce that they were rebranding the A1 Phase 1 testing phases as as APOC they said that it would be a standalone product, and exist in tandem with the MMO even after the MMOs official launch. This was their reasoning for adding the cash shop to APOC as a way to cover the cost of the servers.
The plan for APOC is still to gather performance data for the MMO, but it will be doing it as a standalone product rather than a temporary testing ground like was the original plan.

cyanideinsanity

wanderingmist wrote: »

Again this idea that APOC is a "product" in its own right. Where exactly are you getting this impression from? Everything I have read suggests that it is nothing more than a testing platform. And quite frankly, if Intrepid need to test their servers and infrastructure, can you think of a better way of doing it?

From the apoc page on the website "Fight for your survival or die trying! Apocalypse is the standalone prequel to the upcoming epic MMORPG Ashes of Creation. It is both a testing ground for new systems and content in Ashes of Creation, as well as a unique last-man-standing action game where magic, steel, and chaos reign supreme. Ashes of Creation: Apocalypse is a high fantasy, Free-to-Play experience where no two battles are ever the same."

Its a testing ground AND a standalone game. And if I'm not wrong apoc is only going to be the action side of combat, and I believe they have said somewhere it will be balanced separately from the mmo.

neuroguy

zomnivore wrote: »

Their hesitance to show us any of the flaws of the MMO, but their willingness to expose people to the APOC product in its unfinished state, and then taking away that product for a fix for the MMO shows their priorities. So that's nice....but...it also shows their willingness to give players an incomplete experience to cash in on a popular trend, that they were too late to capitalize on. So it sorta shows a schism in their thinking. When planning is going on thats supposed to be pretty far flung thinking, to see this scramble to get another product out, is kind of a terrible red flag for signs of health.
Critically thought out and deep insight is what we need from Steven and his vision. I feel that a desire for there to be less of a sunk cost for testing, is just kind of a pipe dream. The costs of doing APOC poorly will reflect on the marketing for the MMO, which when you think about it, is what all this radio silence is supposed to achieve. However word of mouth is the power they're hoping to utilize here and yet its the biggest risk they're taking by exposing people to APOC and then cutting access to APOC abruptly, is very disruptive to the players they'd hope to gain and this is a pretty niche genre with a tight community of media. Doing stuff like this again is really not a good idea.

Wow that's extremely superficial analysis there. Yes, their greed is so strong that they kept apoc online despite its state and current purpose as a testing platform. Oh wait. And how dare they, a new gaming studio, ever think of funding themselves beyond what we paid them on kickstarter to do? What's that you say? But it's just an innovative idea to try and get some version of the game into people's hands earlier for them to be more engaged with the development process? That is indeed what we wanted BUT IN A BR? How could we possibly accept this?

People really need to stop giving them shit for this. You would be happy if more people supported IS by buying in game mmo skins but not if they did it through BR cosmetics? Wtf is the difference? Sure apoc could become its own thing later but right now, it is undeniable that it serves to better the mmo as well. There were talks originally that apoc might be in-game mmo content, kinda like battlegrounds of some sort. God damn, if they had only said that instead people wouldn't have lost their shit so hard, I have to say that was a marketing misstep. So why don't people just pretend that's the case? You wouldn't have a problem with an in-game mini-game BR would you? Using the same models, the same combat, the same engine, assets, server infrastructure etc (all of which are being tested in apoc)? No you wouldn't complain because if you don't like BR, you wouldn't engage in it, same fucking shit here. The BR cosmetic store could also have existed in-game as an mmo mini-game and people would not have bitched as much about it either.

The reality is that people are upset that they are not pumping out content and information about the game as if they were developing patches for an already existing game. People's expectations of turnaround time is absurd. Karthos has a nice comment on a post to put the speed in perspective (https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/42725/aoc-concerns#latest).

In conclusion: stop being so impatient and relax, take a cold shower or something. Also with this unoriginal, superficial analysis, we get it already, lots of people try to cash in with BRs. There are also people who enjoy BRs and those who try to make fun innovative BRs. There are also those you try to capitalize on the ease of making them for their own purpose. Which one is IS? Who fucking knows so exercise some patience and wait it out.

Dygz

arzosah wrote: »

@wanderingmist in the livestream when they announce that they were rebranding the A1 Phase 1 testing phases as as APOC they said that it would be a standalone product, and exist in tandem with the MMO even after the MMOs official launch. This was their reasoning for adding the cash shop to APOC as a way to cover the cost of the servers.
The plan for APOC is still to gather performance data for the MMO, but it will be doing it as a standalone product rather than a temporary testing ground like was the original plan.

APOC is a standalone in terms of branding (and story), but it's still a testing ground for the MMORPG.
What's changed from the original plan is that it's currently not intended to be temporary.

OrcLuck

neuroguy wrote: »

Wow that's extremely superficial analysis there. Yes, their greed is so strong that they kept apoc online despite its state and current purpose as a testing platform. Oh wait. And how dare they, a new gaming studio, ever think of funding themselves beyond what we paid them on kickstarter to do? What's that you say? But it's just an innovative idea to try and get some version of the game into people's hands earlier for them to be more engaged with the development process? That is indeed what we wanted BUT IN A BR? How could we possibly accept this?

Well done. You've gone an upset yourself.

We paid for an MMO first and foremost. Secondly. Do you need a change of pants? I feel like you're taking the piss.

neuroguy

zomnivore wrote: »

Well done. You've gone an upset yourself.

We paid for an MMO first and foremost. Secondly. Do you need a change of pants? I feel like you're taking the piss.

Nah, I always wear diapers just incase, don't you worry about me.

You in fact did not pay for an mmo. You paid to support the development of one. Development takes time, do something else with your time while the people you paid work on it. Perhaps growing some thicker skin so you don't devolve into insults when your repost analysis is called superficial.

Viymjr

I am very happy to see a date for recommencing of testing. I am very exited about this as it does take into account European times so we can all take part. It has been a long time to hold my breath waiting for this announcement. Now I can breath again

I do understand why Apocalypse BR mode will be the first round of testing as they need to see how their back end modifications hold up, but if Intrepid monetise this early stage of the testing it will back fire. They need to make it clear this is a test platform. By monetising that clarity is lost and invites the increased negative commentary. Once siege mode and horde mode is up and running by all means monetise the Apocalypse game as a stand alone.

Wandering Mist

@cyanideinsanity and @arzosah Thank you both, you'd think I would have noticed that. Still, the official word on the website does clearly state that it is being used to test systems that will be used in the mmorpg, so the whole notion that they are "re-releasing" an unfinished product is a weird mindset to me.

I'm going back through my emails and have found my initial invitation to take part in APOC back in October last year:

We're happy to announce that your account has been selected to participate in our upcoming Alpha One, Phase 1 testing! This phase of testing was created to help us develop combat for Ashes of Creation. We are focusing purely on action combat currently, using a battle royale game mode. We are collecting massive amounts of data from these tests not just relating to combat testing, that allow us to perfect back-end systems, server-side performance, matchmaking and account related features.

Over the coming weeks we will be inviting all registered users from Ashes to participate and help us test our infrastructure. From the bottom of our hearts, we would like to thank you for being a part of this incredible journey, we can't wait to make you proud.

Further emails regarding APOC have also made it clear that it is for testing purposes. Even the cosmetics that you can either buy or earn in APOC will transfer to your mmo characters when that game launches. I'm really struggling to see where all the hate and confusion regarding APOC is coming from.

cyanideinsanity

wanderingmist wrote: »

@cyanideinsanity and @arzosah Thank you both, you'd think I would have noticed that. Still, the official word on the website does clearly state that it is being used to test systems that will be used in the mmorpg, so the whole notion that they are "re-releasing" an unfinished product is a weird mindset to me.

I can't disagree there. Honestly I don't know why anyone would've thought it wouldn't return. I was just putting it out that it is to be a product in and of itself... eventually.

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