Tab vs Action for Ashes of Creation

The 'tab vs action' discussion has been going on forever as both sides fail to convince one another that theirs' is the better option. Tab target has been a staple in most MMOs as it's traditional and very easy to implement while action requires more money, time and technology. Tab target is successful and does work however, there's a growing number of people - especially young people think it is outdated.The most popular games of our time are the ones with engaging combat as they have fun and engaging combat, which draws young people who make up the majority of gamers today. However, we all know that there is more to MMOs than just the combat; it is a living world, and as the MMORPG community is somewhat diverse, many have different reasons to why they play MMOs. 'combat makes or kills a game' is still relevant tho. Ashes want to achieve a hybrid combat, and despite the fact they claim the player choice will determine play-style, the game will supposedly feel more like one or the other. So I ask you; what kind of combat would you like to see in Ashes; more tab or action-oriented?

(Please note that this is part of a small survey I've been conducting and your answers will be of great help 🧝🏻‍♂️)

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Wandering Mist

nagash wrote: »

Its funny as I can see the hybrid combat fail to grab the attention of both camps

It's impossible to have a system that pleases everyone, and there will always be players who will quit as soon as they find something in the combat they don't like. For me personally, I don't really mind where on the tab-action scale they land on, as long as it is responsive and functions properly.

One of the reasons why I stopped playing the Summoner class in FFXIV was because the devs had coded the pet combat in such a way that it was so unresponsive and clunky to use.

Magic Man

nagash wrote: »

Its funny as I can see the hybrid combat fail to grab the attention of both camps

It may happen, fellow guild member. Tho it depends on what they mean by 'hybrid' (choosing either action or tab skins or both etc isn't really what it is). People may choose almost full tab with only 1 action ability that deals more damage. There's also the plan to make hard CC abilities action and soft CCs tab target. I think as players who prefer tab target like yourself has nothing to worry about as you will be able to play Ashes in a very similar way with other MMOs with traditional tab target combat such as Archeage. Jeffrey even said in August 2018 'we aren't trying to reinvent the wheel. for instance people who come from different MMOs will find Ashes combat to be very familiar'. There's also the possibility of hybrid combat failing in which case Intrepid will switch back to tab target.

Micromegas

I don't have much experience in Mmorpgs, since I am new to this genre, but the tab-targeting combat system really pushes me away, mostly because I feel like, in this year where action combat is not uncommon, tab-targeting is old, archaic and not interesting type of combat, and I regard is as a "safe-bet" for a company because more experienced players in Mmorpgs don't mind tab-target since they are used to it.(it's like an old toy that you can't stop playing).

So far, from what I played I liked action combat more since I prefer to be in full control of my character so that fights were more dynamics, I mean attack skills used for evasion, closing gaps, positioning/smart plays not just for the damage. Smth like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0titepdEIE.

EvoW

I am a big fan of Xenoblade Chronicles, and I think that game nails a good mix between tab targeting and action based combat. I want there to be lock-ons and such, but I also want there to be a good deal of mobility and interactivity with the character you play. So, maybe something similar to the FromSoftware games combat system.

allusir

Personally, I think the hybrid system where people get to pick skills is an interesting idea. I imagine it will work great with group dynamics. I have a friend who will for sure be as pure action combat as possible and have to focus in on what's going on in his immediate area. For rogue/assassin type classes this will be awesome for getting in and out of combat.

Me, I tend to play healer, and the last thing I want to have to do is aim to heal. Especially if you have action combat, mobility-based characters zipping around... I want to be able to just heal them. I'll have 8 health meters to keep track of, plus the enemy trying to slaughter my bones first... I don't want to have to stop kiting, turn around, and aim at where I think an injured ally is behind me.

I do want all my get the heck out of dodge and oh crap teleports to be action combat....

Yes, the blend will be very nice is they can balance it well.

Pooka

Pooka favors TAB over action, but Pooka is pleased when certain abilities are skill based. However, Pooka has faith that IS has a good idea on how they want to make this hybrid system and is excited to see how they implement it.

Kotter

Tab for sure.

neuroguy

They have their pros and cons. I envisioned a soft tabbing system where certain abilities tag physical locations or physical parts of player/monster models and act as temporary soft "tab" targets. So if you hit someone's arm or some rock with a soft tabbing ability, you can then instantly target that position as if your cursor was pointing at it by holding shift or pressing f1 or something. There would still be latency, motion delay and projectile velocity which means you are not guaranteed to hit the arm that you tagged with your soft tab ability but on most NPCs, it will act like a tab targeting system.

I thought it synergizes well with the multiple hit boxes they already have set up, and with augments you can play around with how many soft tab targets you have up at a time, the duration which they stay up for, any bonuses or detriments for hitting skills/abilities through the soft tab system. The augments can make skills more or less soft tab friendly which would provide the promised customization of tab vs action. In general it would allow for an action combat feel while maintaining a lot of the tactical capabilities of tab target combat people like (especially in PvE)... at least that's how it looks in my head haha.

MrPancake

They have created a nice action system for apoc, makes me wonder how much of it they'll actually use. I always envisioned it as more tab than action though.

I really hope combat is fluid and meaningful. tab vs action isn't as important imo.

Magic Man

SoulsOnFire wrote: »

They have created a nice action system for apoc, makes me wonder how much of it they'll actually use. I always envisioned it as more tab than action though.

I really hope combat is fluid and meaningful. tab vs action isn't as important imo.

Agreed. Action combat in APOC is quite good and with improvements we will see in this testing, it will be even better.Tho as you said, I don't see them using it much in the MMORPG unfortunately. I believe they're going for tab with some 'action' elements sprinkled - similar to GW2

seaber

Magic Man wrote: »

SoulsOnFire wrote: »

They have created a nice action system for apoc, makes me wonder how much of it they'll actually use. I always envisioned it as more tab than action though.

I really hope combat is fluid and meaningful. tab vs action isn't as important imo.

Agreed. Action combat in APOC is quite good and with improvements we will see in this testing, it will be even better.Tho as you said, I don't see them using it much in the MMORPG unfortunately. I believe they're going for tab with some 'action' elements sprinkled - similar to GW2

Except GW2 has an 'action' majority.

oegge

I personally would love a combat system like DarkSouls with a few tweaks so it is compatible with mass scale battles.

I´m on the action side.

Nagash

oegge wrote: »

I personally would love a combat system like DarkSouls with a few tweaks so it is compatible with mass scale battles.

I´m on the action side.

while that would be amazing I think the servers would have a meltdown

Undead Canuck

i always love seeing these threads. I am hoping the OP was just asking for opinions and not asking people to defend their preferred method.

The only issues I have with action combat is lag and relaxation. With a lot of lag (both internet and computer), you will miss way more often (i.e. living in the middle of the ocean or using a potato to run the game).
Some of the time, I want a nice relaxing jaunt through the wilderness, and want to tone it down a bit. Tab targeting helps with that as you don't have to concentrate as much as action.

For some people, tab is better, and for others, action. Luckily, we can pretty much tailor our game play the way we like (as they have said - hopefully that amount of customization is going to be in game).

Magic Man

Jahlon wrote: »

kayra wrote: »

@jahlon

Runescape's world record has nothing to do with the fact that League of Legends is the most popular game of our time. In the last 3 years things might have changed and Fortnite *might* have taken the throne of League but this does not disprove my point that young people enjoy engaging combat in fact it proves it even more.

You may think numbers weren't needed to ask people whether they prefer action or tab and I respect your opinion on that. However, I don't see how it would make the survey 'flawed'. I simply take the opinions of all people who comment here and jot it down. Thanks for your concern tho 😅

Here's the thing.

If you present a set of facts (in this case your numbers) and then those numbers are disputed, you either need to be able to double down and prove your numbers or you need to abandon them.

You say that the Runescape world record has *nothing* to do with the fact that League of Legends is the most popular game of our time. Except, by what standard?

I did just show you that there are more Runescape accounts than there are League of Legends accounts. So your fact is now disproven.

You also showed data from 2015 and 2016 about the popularity of League of Legends, however, Fortnite did not exist until September 26, 2017, which means using that data to claim "of our time" is likewise flawed. Now if you want to limit it to 2015 and 2016 Sure, that might work.

Except, then I'd have ask ask how PUBG had 229 monthly players as of June 2018 and Pokemon Go had 147 million players to League of Legends 100 million.

If you want to roll around and collect survey data, I personally thing that's GREAT. I love when people do data gathering.

However, I've pointed out the flaws in your data early because sometime in the future you are going to make a statement along the lines of "I polled people on the forums and what I got was....(fill in your responses" and you are going to get shut-down immediately when it gets pointed out that you started from a flawed position and therefore everything you gather from a flawed position is considered flawed.

The numbers you used are both inaccurate and irrelevant.

I do highly encourage you though to double back, rewrite the survey/question without the bias, give your starting point a solid foundation and then come up with some solid responses you can use.

@Jahlon oh boi I just saw your reply.. it is always fun arguing with you not gonna lie 🙃

I already said numbers are approximates (probably twice?) and provided data of Newzoo (marketing research for game industry) in which the first MMO that appears on the list is World of Warcraft with 10th place.

Yes, apparently Runescape had 4k more registered accounts - doesn't make it the most popular game of our time. By 'our time' I mean year 2019 if that bit wasn't clear, not 'of all time'. Soo my fact isn't disproven in any way.If you have any data that disproves the fact that League of Legends is the most popular game of our time and popularity of MMORPGs in 2019 are nowhere near any FPS\MOBA game, I'd like to see it.

You haven't really pointed out any flaws in my data as there is none. There were just approximate numbers which I removed in the end just to make you happy - also as you're the only person in the entire Ashes community that might come and say 'bla bla you started from a flawed position' 'your question was biased with inaccurate numbers' - 'shooting people down' as you put it, I didn't want to deal with it when I shared my results with everyone.

I believe you're doing this in good faith and I got used to it. Regardless, I thank you for your feedback and made changes so that you wouldn't think it's a 'flawed survey with flawed results'

seaber

League of Legends is also a hybrid combat game.

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