AzathothMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
For me it was the use of language to seemingly back peddle on some KS things after the fact.
Many have said this is just KS peeps being "elitist" or what not, and that's fine. It doesn't change the fact they doubled down on the thesaurus to make what seemed like pretty straight forward statements more broad. They have done this a few times, there is usually a slight upheaval from those that feel like they took the bait and got switched. However, it is usually over shadowed by the response from those benefiting.
There are several threads about this. So if you care enough to ask what types of things, I will refer you to looking. Otherwise take it or leave it.
+1 Skull & Crown metal coin
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I know we all paid to play, and I understand wanting more information. I even get not wanting to think about it or spend time 'following' it until release.
But a mass exodus of people leaving and never coming back would be odd.
As far as giving money now and wanting transparency in return, that makes sense too. I just don't think our dollars paid for that level of response.
It was nice when we had it, but as the game gets closer to play time and the community here and at large grows, there is greater chance for more negative publicity than positive with every thing they release.
We all know people are more apt to talk aboit things they don't like, than things they do. At least through media.
At this point, the devs have made so many mistakes and false promises that it's becoming a joke. Trust is the one thing intrepid should be working on gaining as everything they say is based on trust, but so far they have lost most of it.
In what way have they broken promises?
They made a launch date that got disrupted due to new information, that’s not breaking a promise. I’d argue most people were well aware it wasn’t going to happen even if IS was fully intending to have it done that quickly.
They said they don’t have plans to launch the MMO on steam, which is true, it can change in the future and that doesn’t make their statement now untrue. APOC is not the MMO, it’s a testing platform. The rewards are transferring over to the MMO anyway to reward people for testing
This is why I dont trust them.
They said the would self publish they then changed that to my.com.
They said before 2020 even if we know they would never make it its still a false promise
The monetised the testing ground (apoc)
they said they would not post on steam and now they are (they said this before Apoc with a thing)
and these are just the main things. If this was a AAA company like EA or Activision we would be up in arms
Where were any of those statements presented as promises? Where did they swear these things would for sure happen?
They told you plans, plans change, most people understand that.
Also, in what way is APOC being monetized? Are you referring to packages being sold for the MMO? I would think not but there hasn’t been anything involving real money sales in regards to APOC thusfar
APOC has a season pass
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
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Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I know we all paid to play, and I understand wanting more information. I even get not wanting to think about it or spend time 'following' it until release.
But a mass exodus of people leaving and never coming back would be odd.
As far as giving money now and wanting transparency in return, that makes sense too. I just don't think our dollars paid for that level of response.
It was nice when we had it, but as the game gets closer to play time and the community here and at large grows, there is greater chance for more negative publicity than positive with every thing they release.
We all know people are more apt to talk aboit things they don't like, than things they do. At least through media.
At this point, the devs have made so many mistakes and false promises that it's becoming a joke. Trust is the one thing intrepid should be working on gaining as everything they say is based on trust, but so far they have lost most of it.
In what way have they broken promises?
They made a launch date that got disrupted due to new information, that’s not breaking a promise. I’d argue most people were well aware it wasn’t going to happen even if IS was fully intending to have it done that quickly.
They said they don’t have plans to launch the MMO on steam, which is true, it can change in the future and that doesn’t make their statement now untrue. APOC is not the MMO, it’s a testing platform. The rewards are transferring over to the MMO anyway to reward people for testing
This is why I dont trust them.
They said the would self publish they then changed that to my.com.
They said before 2020 even if we know they would never make it its still a false promise
The monetised the testing ground (apoc)
they said they would not post on steam and now they are (they said this before Apoc with a thing)
and these are just the main things. If this was a AAA company like EA or Activision we would be up in arms
Where were any of those statements presented as promises? Where did they swear these things would for sure happen?
They told you plans, plans change, most people understand that.
Also, in what way is APOC being monetized? Are you referring to packages being sold for the MMO? I would think not but there hasn’t been anything involving real money sales in regards to APOC thusfar
APOC has a season pass
It does? That's news to me.
As for Intrepid in general, I gave them the benefit of the doubt regarding the initial release date, chalking it up to Steven's enthusiasm and inexperience in the game industry getting ahead of him, making him say things which were never going to happen.
I don't have any experience with my.com so I can't comment on that.
I know we all paid to play, and I understand wanting more information. I even get not wanting to think about it or spend time 'following' it until release.
But a mass exodus of people leaving and never coming back would be odd.
As far as giving money now and wanting transparency in return, that makes sense too. I just don't think our dollars paid for that level of response.
It was nice when we had it, but as the game gets closer to play time and the community here and at large grows, there is greater chance for more negative publicity than positive with every thing they release.
We all know people are more apt to talk aboit things they don't like, than things they do. At least through media.
At this point, the devs have made so many mistakes and false promises that it's becoming a joke. Trust is the one thing intrepid should be working on gaining as everything they say is based on trust, but so far they have lost most of it.
In what way have they broken promises?
They made a launch date that got disrupted due to new information, that’s not breaking a promise. I’d argue most people were well aware it wasn’t going to happen even if IS was fully intending to have it done that quickly.
They said they don’t have plans to launch the MMO on steam, which is true, it can change in the future and that doesn’t make their statement now untrue. APOC is not the MMO, it’s a testing platform. The rewards are transferring over to the MMO anyway to reward people for testing
This is why I dont trust them.
They said the would self publish they then changed that to my.com.
They said before 2020 even if we know they would never make it its still a false promise
The monetised the testing ground (apoc)
they said they would not post on steam and now they are (they said this before Apoc with a thing)
and these are just the main things. If this was a AAA company like EA or Activision we would be up in arms
Where were any of those statements presented as promises? Where did they swear these things would for sure happen?
They told you plans, plans change, most people understand that.
Also, in what way is APOC being monetized? Are you referring to packages being sold for the MMO? I would think not but there hasn’t been anything involving real money sales in regards to APOC thusfar
APOC has a season pass
APOC is completely free
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
yes APOC is free but it does have a season pass you can pay for
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
yes APOC is free but it does have a season pass you can pay for
There is no currently no season pass available for purchase, if there is please link it.
The only one I could find any mention of was a pass that would allow you to earn cosmetics and minor bonuses for playing a whole hell of a lot to reach high levels. And as mentioned before, these cosmetics are all transferring to the MMO.
@Caeryl This link "There will be an optional Legendary Path that players can purchase." And this one (second dot).
Come take a look at ashesofcreation.wiki!
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unknownsystemerrorMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
No payee, no tickee. If you want the cosmetics from the legendary path, you pay. Unless of course you have a package with A1 access. Those have a lifetime season pass. Everyone else that had testing in their packages gets season 1 for free. After that they pay. And anyone that doesn't have a package. They pay. Of course it is all cosmetic, and the exp boosts only apply to APOC, but hey, gotta make that scratch somehow.
@ Caeryl This link "There will be an optional Legendary Path that players can purchase." And this one (second dot).
Yes I saw that one, but given even the least expensive MMO pre-order packs include the APOC pass (Compendium Season 1 - The Exodus), that hardly seems like monetizing the testing platform. By now I'd guess most people would have purchased at least one pack of cosmetics for AoC. I can accept if someone wants to call the future passes another method of further funding development for the MMO, because it is, however those who toss out accusations that it's just to rake in more money are simply paranoid. We've already gotten a ton of confirmation that APOC rewards transfer to the MMO.
I agree the gaming industry hasn't done much to inspire confidence lately, but it'd be nice if people could just give IS a chance without throwing out "woo boy another EA" the second they mention putting a cost on a portion of cosmetic products.
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AzathothMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Most people that have really been burned are optimistic of IS at best. The studio as you point out is still compared to EA and the game is still compared to WoW and AA because those are things most people are familiar with. In some cases those things can be used to showcase an industry standard.
Since IS is going to be part of that industry, when they start doing things others have done before them, it speaks less to their originality and more to them following the industry standard.
I try to refrain from those comparisons and tend to be weary of most opinions that use those types of comparisons as facts. However, using those comparisons to form opinions makes sense.
+1 Skull & Crown metal coin
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@ Caeryl This link "There will be an optional Legendary Path that players can purchase." And this one (second dot).
Yes I saw that one, but given even the least expensive MMO pre-order packs include the APOC pass (Compendium Season 1 - The Exodus), that hardly seems like monetizing the testing platform. By now I'd guess most people would have purchased at least one pack of cosmetics for AoC. I can accept if someone wants to call the future passes another method of further funding development for the MMO, because it is, however those who toss out accusations that it's just to rake in more money are simply paranoid. We've already gotten a ton of confirmation that APOC rewards transfer to the MMO.
I agree the gaming industry hasn't done much to inspire confidence lately, but it'd be nice if people could just give IS a chance without throwing out "woo boy another EA" the second they mention putting a cost on a portion of cosmetic products.
the fact is they put a season pass in a testing ground I dont care if you say it fine its still monetizing a test
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
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Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@ Caeryl This link "There will be an optional Legendary Path that players can purchase." And this one (second dot).
Yes I saw that one, but given even the least expensive MMO pre-order packs include the APOC pass (Compendium Season 1 - The Exodus), that hardly seems like monetizing the testing platform. By now I'd guess most people would have purchased at least one pack of cosmetics for AoC. I can accept if someone wants to call the future passes another method of further funding development for the MMO, because it is, however those who toss out accusations that it's just to rake in more money are simply paranoid. We've already gotten a ton of confirmation that APOC rewards transfer to the MMO.
I agree the gaming industry hasn't done much to inspire confidence lately, but it'd be nice if people could just give IS a chance without throwing out "woo boy another EA" the second they mention putting a cost on a portion of cosmetic products.
the fact is they put a season pass in a testing ground I dont care if you say it fine its still monetizing a test
Yeah, when you put it like that it does seem pretty shady. I've been thinking about this whole situation a lot recently and it doesn't sit well with me at all. I'm perfectly fine with financially supporting the development of the game (I wouldn't have backed the kickstarter otherwise), but this seems a bit too greedy.
I'd love to give Intrepid the benefit of the doubt on this and believe them when they say they need the extra money to stay on schedule, but it's so hard when you see what the rest of the gaming industry is doing.
I'm honestly sick of the gaming industry right now. It used to be so simple: You bought a full game with no strings attached and played it. When you were done with that game you bought a new one. The only exception to this were the subscription-based mmorpgs but even they were very easy to understand. Your subscription paid to keep the servers running and that's it.
Now..... Now I don't know half the time what I'm paying for when I buy a new game. I wish we could go back to those simpler times, when developers actually released completed games instead of this "release it half-finished and patch it later" bullshit.
Sorry, I'm ranting now but it's just so frustrating to feel that every company only seems to care about getting as much money from the players as possible.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@ Caeryl This link "There will be an optional Legendary Path that players can purchase." And this one (second dot).
Yes I saw that one, but given even the least expensive MMO pre-order packs include the APOC pass (Compendium Season 1 - The Exodus), that hardly seems like monetizing the testing platform. By now I'd guess most people would have purchased at least one pack of cosmetics for AoC. I can accept if someone wants to call the future passes another method of further funding development for the MMO, because it is, however those who toss out accusations that it's just to rake in more money are simply paranoid. We've already gotten a ton of confirmation that APOC rewards transfer to the MMO.
I agree the gaming industry hasn't done much to inspire confidence lately, but it'd be nice if people could just give IS a chance without throwing out "woo boy another EA" the second they mention putting a cost on a portion of cosmetic products.
the fact is they put a season pass in a testing ground I dont care if you say it fine its still monetizing a test
Yeah, when you put it like that it does seem pretty shady. I've been thinking about this whole situation a lot recently and it doesn't sit well with me at all. I'm perfectly fine with financially supporting the development of the game (I wouldn't have backed the kickstarter otherwise), but this seems a bit too greedy.
I'd love to give Intrepid the benefit of the doubt on this and believe them when they say they need the extra money to stay on schedule, but it's so hard when you see what the rest of the gaming industry is doing.
I'm honestly sick of the gaming industry right now. It used to be so simple: You bought a full game with no strings attached and played it. When you were done with that game you bought a new one. The only exception to this were the subscription-based mmorpgs but even they were very easy to understand. Your subscription paid to keep the servers running and that's it.
Now..... Now I don't know half the time what I'm paying for when I buy a new game. I wish we could go back to those simpler times, when developers actually released completed games instead of this "release it half-finished and patch it later" bullshit.
Sorry, I'm ranting now but it's just so frustrating to feel that every company only seems to care about getting as much money from the players as possible.
That the same way I feel
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
@Caeryl This link "There will be an optional Legendary Path that players can purchase." And this one (second dot).
I have perhaps a different stance on this whole thing to everyone else.
To me, the reason to buy Legendary access here is not to get any more out of Apoc at all - it is to get what will no doubt be exclusive cosmetics in the MMO when it launches.
To me, the whole thing is nothing more than a different path by which to get cosmetics in the MMO - buying them outright is one path, and earning them in Apoc (including the $10 to get Legendary access if you want even more cosmetics) is another.
Put another way, to me, this is nothing more than the continuation of selling cosmetics for the MMO, they have just tied Apoc participation in to it.
Edit to add; I admit it's borderline in terms of their statement to not monetize Apoc, but to me it is on the acceptable side of that line.
@ Caeryl This link "There will be an optional Legendary Path that players can purchase." And this one (second dot).
Yes I saw that one, but given even the least expensive MMO pre-order packs include the APOC pass (Compendium Season 1 - The Exodus), that hardly seems like monetizing the testing platform. By now I'd guess most people would have purchased at least one pack of cosmetics for AoC. I can accept if someone wants to call the future passes another method of further funding development for the MMO, because it is, however those who toss out accusations that it's just to rake in more money are simply paranoid. We've already gotten a ton of confirmation that APOC rewards transfer to the MMO.
I agree the gaming industry hasn't done much to inspire confidence lately, but it'd be nice if people could just give IS a chance without throwing out "woo boy another EA" the second they mention putting a cost on a portion of cosmetic products.
the fact is they put a season pass in a testing ground I dont care if you say it fine its still monetizing a test
Yeah, when you put it like that it does seem pretty shady. I've been thinking about this whole situation a lot recently and it doesn't sit well with me at all. I'm perfectly fine with financially supporting the development of the game (I wouldn't have backed the kickstarter otherwise), but this seems a bit too greedy.
I'd love to give Intrepid the benefit of the doubt on this and believe them when they say they need the extra money to stay on schedule, but it's so hard when you see what the rest of the gaming industry is doing.
I'm honestly sick of the gaming industry right now. It used to be so simple: You bought a full game with no strings attached and played it. When you were done with that game you bought a new one. The only exception to this were the subscription-based mmorpgs but even they were very easy to understand. Your subscription paid to keep the servers running and that's it.
Now..... Now I don't know half the time what I'm paying for when I buy a new game. I wish we could go back to those simpler times, when developers actually released completed games instead of this "release it half-finished and patch it later" bullshit.
Sorry, I'm ranting now but it's just so frustrating to feel that every company only seems to care about getting as much money from the players as possible.
I dont really see any reason why you should think that they are "greedy"...
They are an independent studio, with expanding costs. Do they force you to buy all that? No. No they do not force you to buy anything. Do they give out skins if you buy sh*t? Yes. Yes they do. Is that a problem for you? No. No, it is not a problem for you specifically...
The "old times", where you knew what you where getting, are still there. Many developers just put extra stuff in other versions of the same game to get even more money.
The problem with the current gaming industry lies not with the developers (okay, yes there are also bad developers), but rather with the publishers. Look at Bungie, they didnt want Destiny 2 to develop that way, but where "forced" by Activision to go a bad route.
Publishers want the devlopers to push out games as fast as possible, even though many games are only half finished. Look at WoD for example. They had to cut 3/4 of content out, because the publisher relocated tons of resources to the NEXT EXPANSION.
@ Caeryl This link "There will be an optional Legendary Path that players can purchase." And this one (second dot).
Yes I saw that one, but given even the least expensive MMO pre-order packs include the APOC pass (Compendium Season 1 - The Exodus), that hardly seems like monetizing the testing platform. By now I'd guess most people would have purchased at least one pack of cosmetics for AoC. I can accept if someone wants to call the future passes another method of further funding development for the MMO, because it is, however those who toss out accusations that it's just to rake in more money are simply paranoid. We've already gotten a ton of confirmation that APOC rewards transfer to the MMO.
I agree the gaming industry hasn't done much to inspire confidence lately, but it'd be nice if people could just give IS a chance without throwing out "woo boy another EA" the second they mention putting a cost on a portion of cosmetic products.
the fact is they put a season pass in a testing ground I dont care if you say it fine its still monetizing a test
Yeah, when you put it like that it does seem pretty shady. I've been thinking about this whole situation a lot recently and it doesn't sit well with me at all. I'm perfectly fine with financially supporting the development of the game (I wouldn't have backed the kickstarter otherwise), but this seems a bit too greedy.
I'd love to give Intrepid the benefit of the doubt on this and believe them when they say they need the extra money to stay on schedule, but it's so hard when you see what the rest of the gaming industry is doing.
I'm honestly sick of the gaming industry right now. It used to be so simple: You bought a full game with no strings attached and played it. When you were done with that game you bought a new one. The only exception to this were the subscription-based mmorpgs but even they were very easy to understand. Your subscription paid to keep the servers running and that's it.
Now..... Now I don't know half the time what I'm paying for when I buy a new game. I wish we could go back to those simpler times, when developers actually released completed games instead of this "release it half-finished and patch it later" bullshit.
Sorry, I'm ranting now but it's just so frustrating to feel that every company only seems to care about getting as much money from the players as possible.
I dont really see any reason why you should think that they are "greedy"...
They are an independent studio, with expanding costs. Do they force you to buy all that? No. No they do not force you to buy anything. Do they give out skins if you buy sh*t? Yes. Yes they do. Is that a problem for you? No. No, it is not a problem for you specifically...
The "old times", where you knew what you where getting, are still there. Many developers just put extra stuff in other versions of the same game to get even more money.
The problem with the current gaming industry lies not with the developers (okay, yes there are also bad developers), but rather with the publishers. Look at Bungie, they didnt want Destiny 2 to develop that way, but where "forced" by Activision to go a bad route.
Publishers want the devlopers to push out games as fast as possible, even though many games are only half finished. Look at WoD for example. They had to cut 3/4 of content out, because the publisher relocated tons of resources to the NEXT EXPANSION.
I have to agree.
In general, I've always looked at it as the developer of a game being the people that actually give a shit, and the publisher of the game being faceless suits that care about nothing at all other than the bottom line - I mean; why would you be a publisher otherwise?
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Wandering MistModerator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@ Caeryl This link "There will be an optional Legendary Path that players can purchase." And this one (second dot).
Yes I saw that one, but given even the least expensive MMO pre-order packs include the APOC pass (Compendium Season 1 - The Exodus), that hardly seems like monetizing the testing platform. By now I'd guess most people would have purchased at least one pack of cosmetics for AoC. I can accept if someone wants to call the future passes another method of further funding development for the MMO, because it is, however those who toss out accusations that it's just to rake in more money are simply paranoid. We've already gotten a ton of confirmation that APOC rewards transfer to the MMO.
I agree the gaming industry hasn't done much to inspire confidence lately, but it'd be nice if people could just give IS a chance without throwing out "woo boy another EA" the second they mention putting a cost on a portion of cosmetic products.
the fact is they put a season pass in a testing ground I dont care if you say it fine its still monetizing a test
Yeah, when you put it like that it does seem pretty shady. I've been thinking about this whole situation a lot recently and it doesn't sit well with me at all. I'm perfectly fine with financially supporting the development of the game (I wouldn't have backed the kickstarter otherwise), but this seems a bit too greedy.
I'd love to give Intrepid the benefit of the doubt on this and believe them when they say they need the extra money to stay on schedule, but it's so hard when you see what the rest of the gaming industry is doing.
I'm honestly sick of the gaming industry right now. It used to be so simple: You bought a full game with no strings attached and played it. When you were done with that game you bought a new one. The only exception to this were the subscription-based mmorpgs but even they were very easy to understand. Your subscription paid to keep the servers running and that's it.
Now..... Now I don't know half the time what I'm paying for when I buy a new game. I wish we could go back to those simpler times, when developers actually released completed games instead of this "release it half-finished and patch it later" bullshit.
Sorry, I'm ranting now but it's just so frustrating to feel that every company only seems to care about getting as much money from the players as possible.
I dont really see any reason why you should think that they are "greedy"...
They are an independent studio, with expanding costs. Do they force you to buy all that? No. No they do not force you to buy anything. Do they give out skins if you buy sh*t? Yes. Yes they do. Is that a problem for you? No. No, it is not a problem for you specifically...
The "old times", where you knew what you where getting, are still there. Many developers just put extra stuff in other versions of the same game to get even more money.
The problem with the current gaming industry lies not with the developers (okay, yes there are also bad developers), but rather with the publishers. Look at Bungie, they didnt want Destiny 2 to develop that way, but where "forced" by Activision to go a bad route.
Publishers want the devlopers to push out games as fast as possible, even though many games are only half finished. Look at WoD for example. They had to cut 3/4 of content out, because the publisher relocated tons of resources to the NEXT EXPANSION.
From the player's point of view it really doesn't matter if the fault lies with the developer, the publisher or the investors behind the scenes. The result is the same. And no, you absolutely DON'T know what you are getting half the time. There are so many options, from paid DLC to season passes to entirely different versions of the same game. And none of it is consistent. Sometimes a season pass gives you free access to all the DLC produced in that year, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes a different version of the game has different content included in it, sometimes not. It's all a complete mess, and for those with the tin foil hats in place, it is specifically designed to confuse the players as much as possible.
When I bought Super Smash Bros on the N64, I went to the store, bought the game, went home, put the cartridge into my console and played it. Simple as that. No patching or updates required, no need to log in to check my identity, no being bombarded with adverts for microtransactions, nothing. And of course, absolutely nothing locked behind a pay-wall. In Super Smash Bros I had full access to all the characters programmed into the game, assuming I had the skill/dedication to unlock them.
That's what I mean by knowing exactly what you are buying. In Mortal Kombat X there were a bunch of fully functional characters that were either locked behind a pay-wall or locked off completely.
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AzathothMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If they implement micro-transactions in Ashes it will be a f*ing mess.
The only way I could see them remotely justifying it would be going F2P, but that would also be a f*ing mess.
I don't think IS plans this for Ashes, as things like this have been treated as bad mojo by IS in the past. But all that damn word smithery...
+1 Skull & Crown metal coin
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If they implement micro-transactions in Ashes it will be a f*ing mess.
The only way I could see them remotely justifying it would be going F2P, but that would also be a f*ing mess.
I don't think IS plans this for Ashes, as things like this have been treated as bad mojo by IS in the past. But all that damn word smithery...
they already have its called embers
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
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AzathothMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Wait, we buy embers and use them to unlock content?
I thought it was more of an in game way of earning 'credits' for the store. Which, last I checked, was cosmetics only.
+1 Skull & Crown metal coin
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Wait, we buy embers and use them to unlock content?
I thought it was more of an in game way of earning 'credits' for the store. Which, last I checked, was cosmetics only.
embers are intrepid in-game cash currency with it you can buy cosmetics, levels in the battle pass in the BR and the battle pass its self. All of which is classed as micro-transactions
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
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AzathothMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Agreed, but if they don't effectively make the MMORPG easier to play, I am not worried. When/if they transition into an Embers-to-Win style of credit I will let loose my rage!
Agreed, but if they don't effectively make the MMORPG easier to play, I am not worried. When/if they transition into an Embers-to-Win style of credit I will let loose my rage!
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If IS wanted to get as much momey as possible the BR would have been up 24/7 since Dec 2018...
All these months while they worked on fixes.
And it would still be live right now.
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AzathothMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If IS wanted to get as much momey as possible the BR would have been up 24/7 since Dec 2018...
All these months while they worked on fixes.
And it would still be live right now.
While true, that doesn't mean they won't later transition Embers into that role. But also, if they needed to focus on Ashes and they were having back end issues, maybe they couldn't keep it up. Maybe the cash flow in from the BR couldn't out pace the cost of servers and server fixes.
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Many have said this is just KS peeps being "elitist" or what not, and that's fine. It doesn't change the fact they doubled down on the thesaurus to make what seemed like pretty straight forward statements more broad. They have done this a few times, there is usually a slight upheaval from those that feel like they took the bait and got switched. However, it is usually over shadowed by the response from those benefiting.
There are several threads about this. So if you care enough to ask what types of things, I will refer you to looking. Otherwise take it or leave it.
APOC has a season pass
It does? That's news to me.
As for Intrepid in general, I gave them the benefit of the doubt regarding the initial release date, chalking it up to Steven's enthusiasm and inexperience in the game industry getting ahead of him, making him say things which were never going to happen.
I don't have any experience with my.com so I can't comment on that.
APOC is completely free
There is no currently no season pass available for purchase, if there is please link it.
The only one I could find any mention of was a pass that would allow you to earn cosmetics and minor bonuses for playing a whole hell of a lot to reach high levels. And as mentioned before, these cosmetics are all transferring to the MMO.
This link "There will be an optional Legendary Path that players can purchase."
And this one (second dot).
Come take a look at ashesofcreation.wiki!
Yes I saw that one, but given even the least expensive MMO pre-order packs include the APOC pass (Compendium Season 1 - The Exodus), that hardly seems like monetizing the testing platform. By now I'd guess most people would have purchased at least one pack of cosmetics for AoC. I can accept if someone wants to call the future passes another method of further funding development for the MMO, because it is, however those who toss out accusations that it's just to rake in more money are simply paranoid. We've already gotten a ton of confirmation that APOC rewards transfer to the MMO.
I agree the gaming industry hasn't done much to inspire confidence lately, but it'd be nice if people could just give IS a chance without throwing out "woo boy another EA" the second they mention putting a cost on a portion of cosmetic products.
Since IS is going to be part of that industry, when they start doing things others have done before them, it speaks less to their originality and more to them following the industry standard.
I try to refrain from those comparisons and tend to be weary of most opinions that use those types of comparisons as facts. However, using those comparisons to form opinions makes sense.
the fact is they put a season pass in a testing ground I dont care if you say it fine its still monetizing a test
Yeah, when you put it like that it does seem pretty shady. I've been thinking about this whole situation a lot recently and it doesn't sit well with me at all. I'm perfectly fine with financially supporting the development of the game (I wouldn't have backed the kickstarter otherwise), but this seems a bit too greedy.
I'd love to give Intrepid the benefit of the doubt on this and believe them when they say they need the extra money to stay on schedule, but it's so hard when you see what the rest of the gaming industry is doing.
I'm honestly sick of the gaming industry right now. It used to be so simple: You bought a full game with no strings attached and played it. When you were done with that game you bought a new one. The only exception to this were the subscription-based mmorpgs but even they were very easy to understand. Your subscription paid to keep the servers running and that's it.
Now..... Now I don't know half the time what I'm paying for when I buy a new game. I wish we could go back to those simpler times, when developers actually released completed games instead of this "release it half-finished and patch it later" bullshit.
Sorry, I'm ranting now but it's just so frustrating to feel that every company only seems to care about getting as much money from the players as possible.
That the same way I feel
I have perhaps a different stance on this whole thing to everyone else.
To me, the reason to buy Legendary access here is not to get any more out of Apoc at all - it is to get what will no doubt be exclusive cosmetics in the MMO when it launches.
To me, the whole thing is nothing more than a different path by which to get cosmetics in the MMO - buying them outright is one path, and earning them in Apoc (including the $10 to get Legendary access if you want even more cosmetics) is another.
Put another way, to me, this is nothing more than the continuation of selling cosmetics for the MMO, they have just tied Apoc participation in to it.
Edit to add; I admit it's borderline in terms of their statement to not monetize Apoc, but to me it is on the acceptable side of that line.
I dont really see any reason why you should think that they are "greedy"...
They are an independent studio, with expanding costs. Do they force you to buy all that? No. No they do not force you to buy anything. Do they give out skins if you buy sh*t? Yes. Yes they do. Is that a problem for you? No. No, it is not a problem for you specifically...
The "old times", where you knew what you where getting, are still there. Many developers just put extra stuff in other versions of the same game to get even more money.
The problem with the current gaming industry lies not with the developers (okay, yes there are also bad developers), but rather with the publishers. Look at Bungie, they didnt want Destiny 2 to develop that way, but where "forced" by Activision to go a bad route.
Publishers want the devlopers to push out games as fast as possible, even though many games are only half finished. Look at WoD for example. They had to cut 3/4 of content out, because the publisher relocated tons of resources to the NEXT EXPANSION.
In general, I've always looked at it as the developer of a game being the people that actually give a shit, and the publisher of the game being faceless suits that care about nothing at all other than the bottom line - I mean; why would you be a publisher otherwise?
From the player's point of view it really doesn't matter if the fault lies with the developer, the publisher or the investors behind the scenes. The result is the same. And no, you absolutely DON'T know what you are getting half the time. There are so many options, from paid DLC to season passes to entirely different versions of the same game. And none of it is consistent. Sometimes a season pass gives you free access to all the DLC produced in that year, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes a different version of the game has different content included in it, sometimes not. It's all a complete mess, and for those with the tin foil hats in place, it is specifically designed to confuse the players as much as possible.
When I bought Super Smash Bros on the N64, I went to the store, bought the game, went home, put the cartridge into my console and played it. Simple as that. No patching or updates required, no need to log in to check my identity, no being bombarded with adverts for microtransactions, nothing. And of course, absolutely nothing locked behind a pay-wall. In Super Smash Bros I had full access to all the characters programmed into the game, assuming I had the skill/dedication to unlock them.
That's what I mean by knowing exactly what you are buying. In Mortal Kombat X there were a bunch of fully functional characters that were either locked behind a pay-wall or locked off completely.
The only way I could see them remotely justifying it would be going F2P, but that would also be a f*ing mess.
I don't think IS plans this for Ashes, as things like this have been treated as bad mojo by IS in the past. But all that damn word smithery...
they already have its called embers
I thought it was more of an in game way of earning 'credits' for the store. Which, last I checked, was cosmetics only.
embers are intrepid in-game cash currency with it you can buy cosmetics, levels in the battle pass in the BR and the battle pass its self. All of which is classed as micro-transactions
@Nagash think you for the clarification.
You and me both ^^
All these months while they worked on fixes.
And it would still be live right now.
While true, that doesn't mean they won't later transition Embers into that role. But also, if they needed to focus on Ashes and they were having back end issues, maybe they couldn't keep it up. Maybe the cash flow in from the BR couldn't out pace the cost of servers and server fixes.
Not that I expect IS would do that.