Makinoji wrote: » I like dailies. It eliminates the need to find a starting point when you log in. Especially if it's a game with tons of content, it can be quite overwhelming. So I generally will start with dailies and then find my way to other content naturally after, since my head isn't spinning about what I should do. One thing I do like about ESO is that they rotate the dungeon dailies every day, so technically it's the same content just a different aesthetic.
Dygz wrote: » Dailies can contribute towards long term goals.
Dygz wrote: » In Ashes, Dailies might very well encourage me to participate in an activity I might normally ignore. I might choose to work on pet breeding on a day where I know I can get a bonus for pet breeding, whereas I'd normally be focused on exploration or smithing or some other activity. I might make it a point to travel to a temple to pray on a day that has a Religion bonus for the Daily, whereas I would normally just stay out exploring the wilderness...(depends on whether I thought the reward was worth the travel time). Dailies -especially in Ashes- are designed to be a bonus; not something that is necessary or obligatory.
Caeryl wrote: » Dailies are a symptom of low attention spans that demand instant gratification for little-to-no effort You can easily do something meaningful with ten to twenty minutes, what you’re asking for is to have rewards thrown at you for basically nothing.
noaani wrote: » If a daily task that requires me to do something I wouldn't otherwise want to do were offered to me, I wouldn't do it unless the reward compelled me to do it. If this were true, then the statement that daily quests are just a bonus would no longer be true.
noaani wrote: » If the reward is compelling enough to do something you wouldn't otherwise do (or travel somewhere you wouldn't otherwise travel) then daily quests are not a bonus, they are dictating your activity.
noaani wrote: » If that statement were true and daily quests were just a bonus, then if one came up requiring me to do something I wouldn't otherwise do, then I still wouldn't do it.
noaani wrote: » You claim to have worked for a game developer. Assuming this is true, and assuming you worked on games rather than like HR or something, you would know full well that daily tasks are only ostensibly about the task.
noaani wrote: » Their purpose is the reward, and making sure it is as evenly spread around as possible.
noaani wrote: » What I am saying is that there are FAR better ways of doing this than daily quests, and I have outlined a better way earlier in this thread.
Dygz wrote: » noaani wrote: » What you're saying is not at all convincing. If you read the suggestion I made for a better way to implement a similar concept, you would notice striking similarities to what you have talked about in Wizard 101. It isn't the same, as the system in that game still has glaring issues. However, it is similar. Perhaps before attacking an argument, you should understand said argument.
noaani wrote: » What you're saying is not at all convincing.
noaani wrote: » If you read the suggestion I made for a better way to implement a similar concept, you would notice striking similarities to what you have talked about in Wizard 101. It isn't the same, as the system in that game still has glaring issues. However, it is similar. Perhaps before attacking an argument, you should understand said argument.
noaani wrote: » The first is making weekly quests rather than daily. Rather than allowing players to do a given quest once, and then resetting that at midnight, allow them to do it 5 times and reset it with the weekly server maintenance. This allows players to do their weeks worth of daily quests at a time that best suits them. This almost totally clears up the issue with having to log in every day or being punished for it. The other mechanic is to make all daily tasks gated with a token. It may be an exploration task, a PvP task, PvE task, a gathering task, a crafting task, a dungeon crawl task, a node specific task, what ever.
noaani wrote: » It seems to me that there are only two perspectives from a players point of view on wanting daily quests in games. Either they want to be given a range of easy tasks to do each day so that they don't need to think about what to do, or they want to get free shit for various tasks that they would likely do anyway. Neither are overly good arguments from a developer point of view - if a task they have added to the game isn't enjoyable enough and doesn't reward enough for players to want to do that task without the addition of a daily quest for it, then that task needs to be re-evaluated.
Dygz wrote: » Caeryl wrote: » Dailies are a symptom of low attention spans that demand instant gratification for little-to-no effort You can easily do something meaningful with ten to twenty minutes, what you’re asking for is to have rewards thrown at you for basically nothing. That is just an unsubstantiated assertion and assumption. Meaningful is subjective - sure. Meaningful is going to be defined by the impact on the player and the impact on the world. Effort and whether or not a task can easily be accomplished in ten to twenty minutes depends on what the task is, how good the individual player is at the task and how long it takes the player to travel to and from the task/quest location. I don't think I've asked for anything. Rather, I have stated that the purpose of Dailies is to give players something to do that can typically be accomplished in a matter of 10-20 minutes. You yourself have just stated that something meaningful can be accomplished in that span of time, so... we seem to be in agreement there. Easy enough for the Ashes devs to make individually trivial tasks accrue to have a meaningful impact on a node, a region, a religion or a social org, etc. Likewise, Daily Rewards can be trivial individually - as they are in Apoc and in Wiz101- but, they accrue into something meaningful over time.
Caeryl wrote: » Ashes has dailies because they are meant to push you into doing different activities so they can get testing feedback. They’re not meant to make the game more immersive, or more rewarding in general.
Caeryl wrote: » When I say meaningful I’m talking about making progress toward a goal. You can craft armor, vote on an issue or for a mayor, you can set up a caravan, you can take part in a story quest for a religious or social or scientific organization. Those things give progress toward whatever other major goals you have, but they do not and should not give you random unrelated rewards like exp or buffs unless they are directly related and in proportion to the amount of time spent.
Caeryl wrote: » People are rightly against dailies, they’re a sign of a shallow game.
Dygz wrote: » noaani wrote: » It seems to me that there are only two perspectives from a players point of view on wanting daily quests in games. Either they want to be given a range of easy tasks to do each day so that they don't need to think about what to do, or they want to get free shit for various tasks that they would likely do anyway. How things seem to you rarely conforms with reality. Of course there are more than those two reasons for players to enjoy Dailies. I like having an option for an easy thing to do each day so that I have the option to jump in and get a tangible reward for completing something in 10-20 minutes and jump back out. Because I don't always have 30+ minutes to complete a quest everyday. That's not about not wanting to think about what to do - that's about not wanting to waste a very limited amount of time.
noaani wrote: » It seems to me that there are only two perspectives from a players point of view on wanting daily quests in games. Either they want to be given a range of easy tasks to do each day so that they don't need to think about what to do, or they want to get free shit for various tasks that they would likely do anyway.
Dygz wrote: » I'm not asking for quick bursts of rewards for 15 minutes of effort. It's not like the devs have said "Ashes won't have Dailies" and I've asked the devs to add Dailies. The OP asks if we want Dailies - why or why not? I've responded that it depends on how the Dailies are implemented. If Ashes Dailies are implemented like Wiz101 or Apoc, it's fine with me. Great for casual gameplay on days when people only have casual time to play. If they are implemented like NWO - that would be awful. We know that the devs don't Ashes Dailies to be like NWO. And we can expect to be like Apoc Dailies in terms of not feeling obligatory to complete. I've discussed what kinds of Dailies I find acceptable and what kinds of Dailies I don't find acceptable. Caeryl wrote: » Ashes has dailies because they are meant to push you into doing different activities so they can get testing feedback. They’re not meant to make the game more immersive, or more rewarding in general. I think you mean Apoc in the quote above; not Ashes. Apoc has Dailies so that we have a variety of activities to do while testing, besides just combat. They also provide incentives for PvE players who don't enjoy PvP combat to participate in the testing. And the Dailies are meant to make the testing more rewarding in general, especially on days when we only have time for a match or two, rather than hours to play. Caeryl wrote: » When I say meaningful I’m talking about making progress toward a goal. You can craft armor, vote on an issue or for a mayor, you can set up a caravan, you can take part in a story quest for a religious or social or scientific organization. Those things give progress toward whatever other major goals you have, but they do not and should not give you random unrelated rewards like exp or buffs unless they are directly related and in proportion to the amount of time spent. I dunno why you're using the word random. Also, not sure what you mean by unrelated rewards like xp. I expect to get xp for crafting, participating in caravan raids, taking part in curated stories related to religions and social organizations. Buffs , to me, are not a good reward for Dailies since I consider Dailies to be primarily about providing opportunities for casual players who only have 10-20 minutes to play. Buff is unlikely to help with that. In my Fractured example, buff as a reward would be pointless. Caeryl wrote: » People are rightly against dailies, they’re a sign of a shallow game. MMORPGs have diverse playstyles. Some people in this thread are OK with Dailies - others are not. There is no right or wrong perspective. Everyone, including the devs, seems to agree that Dailies should not be designed to be obligatory, as they are in NWO - as in, making players feel that they're missing out if they skip a day because they are sent back to Day 1 on a calendar of rewards with increasing value. Shallow game is subjective. Meaningful is subjective. Ashes Dailies will almost inherently be meaningful because the results of having multiple players participating in Dailies will have a significant impact on the world - rather than just affecting the individual player. In Ashes, if I kill 1 Earth Elemental near my town, that has insignificant impact on the world. But, if a bunch of people in town kill 1 Earth Elemental nearby, that's likely to have a lasting impact on the Earth Elemental population. And, it might even mean that people have a few minutes left over to kill several Greater Earth Elementals.
noaani wrote: » Unless you are going to try and suggest to me that without daily quests, there is nothing at all that can be done in an MMO in 20 minutes, then you fit exactly and perfectly in to the first group of people I talked about above - you like daily quests because they give you something to do without having to think about it. I know you claimed at the end that this isn't the reason, but just because you said it isn't - without qualifying that statement - doesn't mean it's true.
Dygz wrote: » noaani wrote: » Unless you are going to try and suggest to me that without daily quests, there is nothing at all that can be done in an MMO in 20 minutes, then you fit exactly and perfectly in to the first group of people I talked about above - you like daily quests because they give you something to do without having to think about it. I know you claimed at the end that this isn't the reason, but just because you said it isn't - without qualifying that statement - doesn't mean it's true. I've repeatedly qualified that statement. Reading comprehension apparently is not your friend. In my Fractured example, I stated that there is plenty I can do in 20 minutes. I can kill Rabbits, Saplings, Woodland Wisps or Earth Elementals, I just won't get any rewards whatsoever for doing so - not even xp. I can take 20 minutes to travel to the Treant hunting grounds today, log out and then wait for my 20 minute game session tomorrow to hunt Treants, which will give me xp. But, then I would have to spend 20+ minutes running back to the Greater Earth Elementals hunting grounds Thursday and Friday. I'm not willing to waste 40 minutes running through already explored areas for no reward; it's not worth the time and effort to do so without some tangible reward. I'd rather spend those 40 minutes playing Life Beyond. I always think about whether or not I want to do a Daily based on how it's going to affect my game session plans. I never do Dailies without a significant amount of consideration.
