PvX forms the basis of ashes of creation, this has been known right from the start, it will not change. All we will do as players and testers is refine the corruption system close any loopholes and try to balance it out.
Ashes of creation and the PvX system will not be for everyone.
All you have to do in the corruption system is have friends kill you until it is clear. You still lose some exp., but items this way will not be lost. Saw this many times in L2. This is a very bad system for PVP.
You forget that getting killed to remove corruption means you will suffer from death penalties, even more as a corrupted player. That's about 3x to 4x of penalties suffered by non-combatants. Items will be lost, EXP debt will be accumulated. You will also respawn at random locations. With no fast travel and flying mounts, good luck telling your friend to help you.
PvX forms the basis of ashes of creation, this has been known right from the start, it will not change. All we will do as players and testers is refine the corruption system close any loopholes and try to balance it out.
Ashes of creation and the PvX system will not be for everyone.
All you have to do in the corruption system is have friends kill you until it is clear. You still lose some exp., but items this way will not be lost. Saw this many times in L2. This is a very bad system for PVP.
In your opinion it is a bad system and you are quite entitled to your opinion. In my opinion it will work out just fine after some testing and tweaking.
Perhaps ashes of creation may not be the game for you as you do not seem to like some of the systems they will have. When I look at a game with systems I do not like I just move on to find another game. Maybe I am just strange or something.
Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
PvX forms the basis of ashes of creation, this has been known right from the start, it will not change. All we will do as players and testers is refine the corruption system close any loopholes and try to balance it out.
Ashes of creation and the PvX system will not be for everyone.
All you have to do in the corruption system is have friends kill you until it is clear. You still lose some exp., but items this way will not be lost. Saw this many times in L2. This is a very bad system for PVP.
You forget that getting killed to remove corruption means you will suffer from death penalties, even more as a corrupted player. That's about 3x to 4x of penalties suffered by non-combatants. Items will be lost, EXP debt will be accumulated. You will also respawn at random locations. With no fast travel and flying mounts, good luck telling your friend to help you.
Read. Do not skip. Don't reply if you don't read it.
Did read and is says: Corrupt players respawn at random locations in the vicinity of their death, not at regular spawn points.
And thank you for people that are staying on the main post.
Oops, I missed the vicinity part. However, we still don't know how large the "vicinity" is. It could mean the whole Zone of Influence, or within the node itself.
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NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I believe they are testing it in alpha 1 and onwards so it will be interesting to see any changes but as of now I agree with most people that intrepid version of corruption seems like a good thing
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
PvX forms the basis of ashes of creation, this has been known right from the start, it will not change. All we will do as players and testers is refine the corruption system close any loopholes and try to balance it out.
Ashes of creation and the PvX system will not be for everyone.
All you have to do in the corruption system is have friends kill you until it is clear. You still lose some exp., but items this way will not be lost. Saw this many times in L2. This is a very bad system for PVP.
In your opinion it is a bad system and you are quite entitled to your opinion. In my opinion it will work out just fine after some testing and tweaking.
Perhaps ashes of creation may not be the game for you as you do not seem to like some of the systems they will have. When I look at a game with systems I do not like I just move on to find another game. Maybe I am just strange or something.
The thing is the game looks really good. I just don't understand why a PVE player that gets killed by someone has to drop something on death. They want to kill me that is fine, but why do I have to be punished when I didn't even want to PVP? I don't mean there shouldn't be PVP,. PVP can be alot of fun done the right way.
You don't drop something as a whole on death. You only drop raw materials that should be easy enough to gather again and should also be easy enough for whoever that's thinking of ganking you to simply gather it themselves, unless it's a super rare material. If that's the case, bring someone to guard you. Only corrupted players will drop weapons and gears.
You aren't punished, per se. But it works a little bit like real life. If you get injured, there will be setbacks. If you died, then you lose everything except that in video games, we'll just think of it as getting injured.
As for the caravans - the risk to care the goods alone should be higher, or the rewards with caravans should be higher, or both. If that is not fulfilled the current caravan system simply will not work.
So removing the corruption system and implementing full loot will allow the caravans to work. But I doubt you want this
Destroyed Caravans drops a portion of the items inside it. How much is a portion? I don't know. 99% is a portion too. From their previous Caravan demo, the destroyed Caravan dropped tons of equipments. That depends on what items are being transported, of course.
Unless that Caravan is scripted and will not drop that many items, then only time will tell. Once Alpha 1 starts, we should hear more feedbacks regarding this.
I do agree only dropping resources is alot better than dropping equipment. It also matters how much you drop again from not wanting to PVP. A whole stack or just a few.
Let's say you have 100 corns in hand. A player kills you to steal your corns. The game decided that you will drop 25% of your corns, which is 25 corns.
If you stay as unflagged, you will drop all 25 corns. If you fight back, you will only lose half of that 25 corns, which is about 12 corns.
If the penalty is too loose the attacked player will not have stimulus to fight back. So the OW PvP will not happen. And as all the systems are linked the whole game will become a very boring grind simulator like BDO. No matter how solo, noncompetitive, PvE focused and etc. player you are, I doubt you want that.
In my opinion, the current system that is planned is not too loose, nor is it too punishing. The attacked player will always have the incentive of halving their death penalties to fight back, if they have no chance of running away.
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AzryilMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Caravans will be used because it's the only reasonable way to transport large quantities of mats and crafted loot from one node to another. Because of how the nodes are structured crafting will work best out of a scientific node because that node type holds the legendary crafting benches at metropolis, and the best place to buy/sell goods will be an economic node because it has a AH that spans the ZoE of the node.
As far as I'm concerned the corruption system could be more harsh, anything to deter unnecessary ganking.
Caravans will be used because it's the only reasonable way to transport large quantities of mats and crafted loot from one node to another. Because of how the nodes are structured crafting will work best out of a scientific node because that node type holds the legendary crafting benches at metropolis, and the best place to buy/sell goods will be an economic node because it has a AH that spans the ZoE of the node.
As far as I'm concerned the corruption system could be more harsh, anything to deter unnecessary ganking.
Your statement is simply ridiculous - if there is a risk my mats to be looted, I will make many safe courses with smaller quantities. As if there is not ganking what will stop me?
The idea of different risk/reward for crafting over the map is pretty old. The newest game where it is very well implemented is Albion. Important thing is that Albion has many flaws, but still pretty much it is a standard for OW game. One of the flaws is the free ganking. At the same time it is maybe the most important part of the economy of the game.
So you have to deal with one simple fact - if the game is OW, everything is linked. More links - more open is the world. And the opposite - less links lead to instanced game.
And if there is not risk for the solo player who carries some goods, even very small quantity, nobody will use the caravans.
Except if they give additional rewards, and these rewards should be pretty big. But then you will have higher inflation, so you will need an additional money sink, which probably will annoy the players. In BDO that money sink is gambling for example.
Seriously many of you react like the AOC just invented the video games. The instanced WoW, ESO and GW2 are not the only MMORPGs out there. There are many OW games, most failed, as it is much harder to make such a game, but there are also some successful ones.
Your statement is ridiculous and is simply wasting time, just like you wanting to take multiple runs to get from point a to point b, if you want to do that it's fine but you're going to lag behind everyone else. Seriously though, you're reading way to much into something that you truly either do not understand, or refuse to understand. We've all given you as much as we possibly can in these situations information wise, and yet you keep dismissing everything because another game did such and such, or because you think it should be another way, Ashes is not that game. What YOU WANT, DOES NOT MATTER. WHAT THE DEVS WANT, DOES. You're beating a dead horse, I suggest moving on and finding something else to waste your time on...like planning your solo inventory runs.
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AzryilMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
How realistic it is to make multiple trips with small amounts of goods depends a lot on the over all travel time. If we take Noaani's example from earlier since we don't currently know how much players will be able to carry vs using a caravan.
The problem here is in volume, If you opt to use a mule, you would need to do 10 runs to make up the volume of one caravan. If you opt to use your backpack, you are looking at 100 runs to make up that same volume. With the probability that you won't have use of fast travel, attempting to carry resources across a few nodes without a caravan would be a full time endeavor in Ashes.
The world of Verra is fairly large compared to other MMOs out right now, so if you're trying to move from one Metro to another, lets say it takes you 30 minutes round trip, do you truly think players will make 100 trips just avoid the risk of having the caravan attacked, or do you think they would be better off getting a few friends or their guild to help defend a caravan to make a single one way trip of 15 minutes? In this case if the caravan gets attacked they lose a portion of what the caravan was carrying. Time will always be the most valuable resource.
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mcstackersonMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If you are not familiar with the crafting system, there are 3 crafting 'archtypes': gathering, processing, and crafting. Someone has to process raw resources before they can be used in crafting i.e. ore to bars.
I can't find the quote so take this with a grain of salt but I believe there are plans to have at least some processed goods, if not all, that need to be transported by caravan.
On top of this, you might not be able to craft a certain item in the same place you can process the resources so you are forced to use a caravan to move the processed resources to the node you are crafting in.
If the carrying difference is the same as the difference between a player and their mule, and you are content with travelling with a tenth of the goods of everyone else, mind you, with no additional protection, you will be a sub par crafter. Which is fine. Thinking other people will be ok with this is ridiculous.
If an activity or area can be entered by anyone walking by, it is open. if it is seperate to you or your group, it is instanced. There isn't a spectrum. It's either one or the other.
The risk is it is just as it is possible to have a caravan attacked, it is possible to be killed and looted walking through the hills with your mule. And unlike that caravan, you aren't inherently offering an incentive to anyone for defending you.
No one thinks your last ludicrous assertion. AoC has many intended mechanics that have existed to some degree in modern mmo's, as well as some from much older titles. While WoW, ESO, Guild Wars, and FF, are popular, so many people use that as a reference point. But there are also plenty of people from games like EQ, DAoC, SWTOR, EVE, Lineage, and more. From all the posts i've seen, you seem to have a very rudimentary understanding of the announced mechanics, for how sure you are in your claims.
I have never seen someone ask for instanced caravans. The dev team have already stated they intend for the vast majority of the game to be non instanced.
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AzryilMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If you are not familiar with the crafting system, there are 3 crafting 'archtypes': gathering, processing, and crafting. Someone has to process raw resources before they can be used in crafting i.e. ore to bars.
I can't find the quote so take this with a grain of salt but I believe there are plans to have at least some processed goods, if not all, that need to be transported by caravan.
On top of this, you might not be able to craft a certain item in the same place you can process the resources so you are forced to use a caravan to move the processed resources to the node you are crafting in.
If the risk is high, the player will not craft. Look at Albion - maybe half of the players stay in the low tier zones, they are relatively safe there, but they earn literally nothing. I could make a million for 20 minutes, they cannot do it for days. Still they do not take he risk.
So, yeah, the corruption system also should make the players feels safer at some degree. Hard task to solve.
Most of the best gear you will be able to obtain will come from crafting, If the risk is high the cost will go up, but it will still be crafted.
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unknownsystemerrorMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I have never seen "most." Instead there will be parity between crafted and dropped.
But this is OW game, the caravans will not be instanced. See if we make everything instanced all issues will be solved. And we will have another poor copy of WoW. But if its OW, as promised, all is linked.
You are missing the point. The question is not why the players will attack caravans, but why they will use them, as the caravans could be attacked and looted. And if the caravans cannot be looted then they will become only pointless fancy items - a different skin for your horse. This is the bad way of BDO.
As for the last one, I think the corruption system is too harsh. But that actually depends how fast you will remove the corruption for the first 1-3 PKs. And how much will be chance to drop gear. For the 4th and above - it does not matter, as that is already ganking. But if you have to suicide or to make some quests that take hours to clean the corruption from 1-3 PKs as meanwhile your gear could be looted - forget about any OW PvP.
And that will make the caravans very pointless as no one will risk his mats and items, as to care them solo will bring 0 risk.
Caravans are not merely a means of transportation. By design, it is meant to be a PvP content. Therefore, they will never be instanced.
There are some ways to participate in open world PvP without gaining, corruption. One of them is through attacking and defending Caravans.
What you've been saying is you want open world PvP. But you don't want the consequences. You also want non-PvP players to be safe, so you want to remove PvP. Guess what, there is such game already. It's called New World.
See what happens when a game try to please everyone.
What you've been saying is you want open world PvP. But you don't want the consequences. You also want non-PvP players to be safe, so you want to remove PvP. Guess what, there is such game already. It's called New World.
See what happens when a game try to please everyone.
You misunderstand me very bad. I like the consequences and the OW PvP. Just what you call consequences -are actually penalties, and they do not fit well with OW PvP. Put the PK penalties harsh and most player will not PvP. Put them loose, and the players will gank like crazy. What I'm talking is where is the right balance.
The penalties is made to prevent ganking on "meaningless" PvP such as PK to steal mobs. We will see how important or often PK players to steal mobs/resources/etc. will happen. I don't think the penalties are unfit for open world PvP. Without penalties, people will surely gank and PK like there's no tomorrow. With the right amount of penalties, you can still have fun as both PKer and non-PKer. Part of the reason why Corruption system exists is because they want you to focus on sanctioned, "meaningful" open world PvP activities, such as Caravans and Node Sieges, where you won't gain any Corruption.
Finding the right balance, that will happen once Alpha 1 starts as people start killing each other to test the Corruption system. We do not have detailed feedbacks from the PI members who tested the pre-alpha, but I'm sure they have relayed their feedbacks or concerns to Intrepid. At least I. myself don't know about them.
What you've been saying is you want open world PvP. But you don't want the consequences. You also want non-PvP players to be safe, so you want to remove PvP. Guess what, there is such game already. It's called New World.
See what happens when a game try to please everyone.
You misunderstand me very bad. I like the consequences and the OW PvP. Just what you call consequences -are actually penalties, and they do not fit well with OW PvP. Put the PK penalties harsh and most players will not PvP. Put them loose, and the players will gank like crazy. What I'm talking is where is the right balance.
If you are not familiar with the crafting system, there are 3 crafting 'archtypes': gathering, processing, and crafting. Someone has to process raw resources before they can be used in crafting i.e. ore to bars.
I can't find the quote so take this with a grain of salt but I believe there are plans to have at least some processed goods, if not all, that need to be transported by caravan.
On top of this, you might not be able to craft a certain item in the same place you can process the resources so you are forced to use a caravan to move the processed resources to the node you are crafting in.
If the risk is high, the player will not craft. Look at Albion - maybe half of the players stay in the low tier zones, they are relatively safe there, but they earn literally nothing. I could make a million for 20 minutes, they cannot do it for days. Still they do not take he risk.
So, yeah, the corruption system also should make the players feels safer at some degree. Hard task to solve.
Most of the best gear you will be able to obtain will come from crafting, If the risk is high the cost will go up, but it will still be crafted.
In Albion all the gear, and I mean literally all is crafted by the players.
Caravans are not merely a means of transportation. By design, it is meant to be a PvP content. Therefore, they will never be instanced.
There are some ways to participate in open world PvP without gaining, corruption. One of them is through attacking and defending Caravans.
Sorry to say that, but this sounds stupid. Like - you say OW. But at the same time you think about it as instanced event.
If it is instanced event, it will work exactly like you say - PvP event.
But if it is OW, caravans are linked with the PK penalties, the corruption system, the crafting system, the trade system. So they are not simply PvP event anymore.
Corruption exists to deter meaningless PKing and griefing.
Obviously open world PvP events that Intrepid wants to encourage like caravans will not involve punishment systems.
That doesn’t mean they’re not open world PvP, it means they’re not the pointless open world PvP Intrepid wants to avoid. And yes, no matter what you claim about two players annoying each other, PKing someone over “grind spots” is meaningless PvP, especially when you’re trying to insist that the player specifically didn’t want anything but to annoy you.
Comments
You forget that getting killed to remove corruption means you will suffer from death penalties, even more as a corrupted player. That's about 3x to 4x of penalties suffered by non-combatants. Items will be lost, EXP debt will be accumulated. You will also respawn at random locations. With no fast travel and flying mounts, good luck telling your friend to help you.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_death
Read. Do not skip. Don't reply if you don't read it.
In your opinion it is a bad system and you are quite entitled to your opinion. In my opinion it will work out just fine after some testing and tweaking.
Perhaps ashes of creation may not be the game for you as you do not seem to like some of the systems they will have. When I look at a game with systems I do not like I just move on to find another game. Maybe I am just strange or something.
Oops, I missed the vicinity part. However, we still don't know how large the "vicinity" is. It could mean the whole Zone of Influence, or within the node itself.
You don't drop something as a whole on death. You only drop raw materials that should be easy enough to gather again and should also be easy enough for whoever that's thinking of ganking you to simply gather it themselves, unless it's a super rare material. If that's the case, bring someone to guard you. Only corrupted players will drop weapons and gears.
You aren't punished, per se. But it works a little bit like real life. If you get injured, there will be setbacks. If you died, then you lose everything except that in video games, we'll just think of it as getting injured.
Destroyed Caravans drops a portion of the items inside it. How much is a portion? I don't know. 99% is a portion too. From their previous Caravan demo, the destroyed Caravan dropped tons of equipments. That depends on what items are being transported, of course.
Unless that Caravan is scripted and will not drop that many items, then only time will tell. Once Alpha 1 starts, we should hear more feedbacks regarding this.
Let's say you have 100 corns in hand. A player kills you to steal your corns. The game decided that you will drop 25% of your corns, which is 25 corns.
If you stay as unflagged, you will drop all 25 corns. If you fight back, you will only lose half of that 25 corns, which is about 12 corns.
Note that this is merely an example. Shameless stolen from Ashes101. https://www.ashes101.com/pvp
I don't know if the game will have a cap of percentage of materials dropped. Perhaps that's a number that should always be kept secret.
In my opinion, the current system that is planned is not too loose, nor is it too punishing. The attacked player will always have the incentive of halving their death penalties to fight back, if they have no chance of running away.
As far as I'm concerned the corruption system could be more harsh, anything to deter unnecessary ganking.
Your statement is ridiculous and is simply wasting time, just like you wanting to take multiple runs to get from point a to point b, if you want to do that it's fine but you're going to lag behind everyone else. Seriously though, you're reading way to much into something that you truly either do not understand, or refuse to understand. We've all given you as much as we possibly can in these situations information wise, and yet you keep dismissing everything because another game did such and such, or because you think it should be another way, Ashes is not that game. What YOU WANT, DOES NOT MATTER. WHAT THE DEVS WANT, DOES. You're beating a dead horse, I suggest moving on and finding something else to waste your time on...like planning your solo inventory runs.
The world of Verra is fairly large compared to other MMOs out right now, so if you're trying to move from one Metro to another, lets say it takes you 30 minutes round trip, do you truly think players will make 100 trips just avoid the risk of having the caravan attacked, or do you think they would be better off getting a few friends or their guild to help defend a caravan to make a single one way trip of 15 minutes? In this case if the caravan gets attacked they lose a portion of what the caravan was carrying. Time will always be the most valuable resource.
I can't find the quote so take this with a grain of salt but I believe there are plans to have at least some processed goods, if not all, that need to be transported by caravan.
On top of this, you might not be able to craft a certain item in the same place you can process the resources so you are forced to use a caravan to move the processed resources to the node you are crafting in.
If an activity or area can be entered by anyone walking by, it is open. if it is seperate to you or your group, it is instanced. There isn't a spectrum. It's either one or the other.
The risk is it is just as it is possible to have a caravan attacked, it is possible to be killed and looted walking through the hills with your mule. And unlike that caravan, you aren't inherently offering an incentive to anyone for defending you.
No one thinks your last ludicrous assertion. AoC has many intended mechanics that have existed to some degree in modern mmo's, as well as some from much older titles. While WoW, ESO, Guild Wars, and FF, are popular, so many people use that as a reference point. But there are also plenty of people from games like EQ, DAoC, SWTOR, EVE, Lineage, and more. From all the posts i've seen, you seem to have a very rudimentary understanding of the announced mechanics, for how sure you are in your claims.
Caravans are not merely a means of transportation. By design, it is meant to be a PvP content. Therefore, they will never be instanced.
There are some ways to participate in open world PvP without gaining, corruption. One of them is through attacking and defending Caravans.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP
What you've been saying is you want open world PvP. But you don't want the consequences. You also want non-PvP players to be safe, so you want to remove PvP. Guess what, there is such game already. It's called New World.
See what happens when a game try to please everyone.
Why it will work= great testing
How to change it = testing feedback tweaks
why steven will get rid of it? He won't, it'll just be tweaked.
The penalties is made to prevent ganking on "meaningless" PvP such as PK to steal mobs. We will see how important or often PK players to steal mobs/resources/etc. will happen. I don't think the penalties are unfit for open world PvP. Without penalties, people will surely gank and PK like there's no tomorrow. With the right amount of penalties, you can still have fun as both PKer and non-PKer. Part of the reason why Corruption system exists is because they want you to focus on sanctioned, "meaningful" open world PvP activities, such as Caravans and Node Sieges, where you won't gain any Corruption.
Finding the right balance, that will happen once Alpha 1 starts as people start killing each other to test the Corruption system. We do not have detailed feedbacks from the PI members who tested the pre-alpha, but I'm sure they have relayed their feedbacks or concerns to Intrepid. At least I. myself don't know about them.
Corruption exists to deter meaningless PKing and griefing.
Obviously open world PvP events that Intrepid wants to encourage like caravans will not involve punishment systems.
That doesn’t mean they’re not open world PvP, it means they’re not the pointless open world PvP Intrepid wants to avoid. And yes, no matter what you claim about two players annoying each other, PKing someone over “grind spots” is meaningless PvP, especially when you’re trying to insist that the player specifically didn’t want anything but to annoy you.