Dev Discussion #19 - Dungeon Scaling

13

Comments

  • uzialuzial Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 13
    Dungeon Scaling.

    What an opportunity to make AoC an amazing and challenging game. Scaling is an old method to add difficulty. I believe it is an incomplete model. WE NEED DYNAMIC Instances with Procedurally Generated maps and Creature placement. Bosses should roll a different set of skills on each load, and you will get different bosses and content.

    Ashes of Creation is a world based on Dynamic content and World Progression. All the Dungeons should be dynamic as well. Mobs will change, patrols will change, and difficulty can be unlocked by solving a mechanic and then defeating a Boss, which will grant you access to more content and loot and keep any instance no matter how old fresh and challenging. What an exciting world to adventure that has creatures that are intelligent enough to vary their behavior and tactics just as you would expect in a real-world scenario. I am so excited about this concept that I sincerely believe it would represent a revolution in Gaming. Is it a challenge, yes it is, but there has never been a team or creator like this before? Stephen and the team can make a glorious new history never seen before in the Gaming world. Let's do it. I am on board for it.
  • arodicusarodicus Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People
    I feel a wide scale dungeon like 30-50 is great. It keeps dungeons relative and allows players to test their boundaries as they are leveling
  • noaaninoaani Member
    To me, There are two major things to consider with a decision like this.

    The first is the level difference at which an encounter will no longer attack a player or group that runs past - if this is added to the game.

    If a level 30 encounter will attack a level 50 character that runs past, then you don't want level 50 characters running through your level 30 dungeons. This will just make life for level 30 players in that dungeon difficult, for no specific good reason.

    On the other hand, if a level 30 encounter will shy away from that level 50 character (perhaps only attacking if the character lingers in one area), then level 50 players are able to run through the area with minimal disruption to the gameplay of the level 30 players.

    The second thing to take in to account is the potential for griefing. If a level 50 group are running to their level 50 content, and pass by a level 30 group, they may well decide to attack that level 30 group just to make the trip to that level 50 content more enjoyable - something that is actually perfectly reasonable if there is a long way to run to get to that level 50 content.

    If the penalty for attacking a player 20 levels below you is significant enough, that will discourage this kind of thing.

    Personally, I'd rather see dungeons scale by difficulty, not by level. I'd like to see no more than 5 or 6 levels between the first and last encounter in a given dungeon, but where those first encounters are easy even for their lower level, and the last encounters are very difficult - even for the level they are.

    This would mean that players would be able to kill a few things at the start of the dungeon while waiting for the remainder of their group to arrive.

    The other big thing this would mean to me is that players have all of their dungeon content (for that day, at least) in one location. This means that when players go through the issue of putting together a group, then getting that group to that dungeon, they know they have a lot of content right there for them to take on. If dungeons are mixed range, that group would only have a half (or less) of a dungeons worth of appropriate content in front of them, and need to leave and go to a completely different dungeon to participate in any further content.
  • For me there are multiple uses of dungeons.

    The lower level ones need to be about tone, story and group play mechanics.

    Endgame and high level dungeons need to be challenging from a skill and gear perspective.

    Where dungeons succeed is that they should be repayable for the joy of running them rather than a loot grind. Whether that be a progression challenge, ie you can make the boss harder by not killing the mini bosses first. Or by making each run meaningful, ie that clearing a dungeon on a regular basis reduces the threat of attacks by its denizens on local towns or caravans.

    Most inportant is loot. There are many types of players in mmos. Some lack the skill or inclination to do end game content. I'm a big fan of using content to give rewards linked to that activity. So endgame should reward with progression gear and titles. Cosmetics such as skins and personalities etc should never be hidden behind the hardest content.

    Similarly on loot, individual loot is a must with voluntary sharing. The wow style loot pool and roll system encourages ninja thieves and makes the game reward grind not ability.
  • AzraelAzrael Member
    Dungeon Scaling

    The idea of scaling is nice. As you delve deeper into a dungeon at each progression point there is a large boss. Letting the party know that going deeper things will increase and be harder with more mechanics, health, and damage. The problem I see is how that would tie into the node system. You have a system that increases as more people contribute to the area and it grows. As mentioned before not all servers will have the same outcome. Therefore I see not all servers will have the same dungeons. Now if there were a select few static dungeons that were extremely difficult as you scale them. To me that would be really nice. But again I am a type of adventurer that enjoys exploring, gathering materials, and crafting great weapons and armor. Scaling is awesome for levels of sophistication and puts more realism on how far the party wants to go and risk their lives.
  • kamroozkamrooz Member
    As someone who use to play Lineage 2, I love the idea of scaling dungeons. The Cruma Tower (Scaling Dungeon) days In L2 were some of the most memorable experience I've had in an MMORPG, and would love to see something like that once more. For those that didn't play Lineage 2, the Dungeon started roughly from level 30, till 50'ish, with a epic raid boss at it's core. But it really depends on how many dungeons plan to be in the game. If there are many dungeons, then there is probably less of a need for scaling.

    I would love to see a few dungeons that have a scaling element to them. Lower level mobs at the beginning, and the deeper you go, the higher the mobs. These dungeons would have to be very large though to accommodate a large amount of party groups, which will also add possible confrontation between parties if said area is considered prime leveling/loot. You also should not be able to push in deep and take on level 50 mobs when you are level 30. I'm hoping levels and gear progression need to be earned. Tired of seeing all these MMORPG's where you hit level cap in 2 weeks. Prefer the longer grind and a sense of achievement in getting your gear, levels, skills.

    In terms of higher level players preying on lower levels, I doubt this will be an issue. If there is a Karma system in place, and it becomes tedious to work off said Karma. Higher levels won't waste their time killing a lowbie. If it does happen however, there will be other higher level players traversing the dungeon to get to the higher level zones, a sense of balance will be established on it's own, as there will always be forces opposing each other.
  • I really need more information.
    That being said, having to go through the same area's time and again is just boring.

    Now what would be acceptable and possibly even fun. You complete the dungeon, not knowing there was more. Later in another adventure you come across a key or talisman that leads you back into that dungeon to a hidden wall you need to take down down.

    That would be OK, as long as the lower level dungeon is not disturbed for the newbs it was built for.
  • QuinQuin Member
    edited June 14
    A cave full of peaceful mushroom folk who reward you at the end if you don't kill any of them with a potion that makes you grow big!

    The loot scales to your character level so low level characters actually get a shrinking potion. :(


    Add* Of course if you drink the potion you'll get trapped inside but if shrink down maybe you can find your way into a high level room. Only low level players get the shrinking potion, but only high level player can defeat the bonus room ;)
  • HeartbeatHeartbeat Member, Founder
    It makes the most sense to me to have a dungeon match what its surrounded by, for example you wont find a bandit somewhere in a dungeon set in hell. As for how deep it goes, i think small dungeons should keep the enemies' level range narrow while really deep dungeons will have a wider array of enemies as well as an increase in difficulty the further down you go maybe even finding mobs that only spawn deep within specific dungeons.
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    Dare to be different. Do scaling in some, none in others. Make it completely random as to which is prevalent. Then no one knows what is coming.
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  • victisragevictisrage Member
    edited June 14
    I like the idea that my friends and I can delve as far as we can, wipe, then try new tactics to attempt to get further. Maybe we can't beat the dungeon completely on our first few goes, and that's okay. As far as a level range I think 5-20 is fine, but clearing the way to the higher level stuff when you come back MUST be rewarding in some way, whether the mobs drop nifty crafting mats or what have you.
    BUT!! Then the lower level players won't have anything to kill as they go through so there really won't be any point in them being there at all. So maybe instead of a large level range of the mobs you have a less artificial difficulty to the deeper parts of the dungeon. Make the mobs and bosses smarter, more varied abilities, group tactics, and so on. This would help to get dungeon groups going PLUS the promise of greater rewards appropriate to your level (assuming you get better gear the deeper you go).
    Out of the two options I prefer the smaller level range with greater mob difficulty.
    Thanks for reading!
  • S3V3NTHS3V3NTH Member, Braver of Worlds
    I agree with most. I think the difficulty should scale based on how deep you go. I also think several should connect with one another in the neitherrealm.
  • cosmicthundercosmicthunder Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 15
    If memory serves me correctly, the level range of creatures in Ashes of Creation will vary based on how large a particular node becomes. Or at least, that's the general idea. Additionally, as certain areas of the world get developed more it would open up content in the general vicinity (i.e. dungeons, events, who knows what else). As such--at least the way I think about it--the dungeons that become available would attract varied level ranges of denizens. So, when a dungeon initially becomes available it may attract a clan of goblins, then later maybe undead, and then even later--after the dungeon becomes more "famed"--it could attract the attention of more sinister beings like a dragon or similar significant threat.

    Thinking back to the original EQ, the dungeons had a range of levels (i.e. 1-15, 20-30, 30-40, 40-50, etc) which was okay'ish, but like other posters have said: Killing trash to get to desirable content is no fun, especially an inordinate amount of trash. If this approach on dungeon scaling exists in Ashes, either reduce the amount of lower level denizens at the earlier areas of the dungeon or allow for creative ways to bypass the trash based on party composition (not just simply going invisible or getting the group's mage further into the dungeon and summon the rest of the party; that method is unoriginal, boring, and rote).

    Also, as players effect events in the world, I would hope to see greater threats near lower level areas, both open world dungeons and elsewhere. That would ensure the need for higher level players to revisit earlier places in their adventures. It would also help knit the lower and higher level range of players together and not be in "clicks" like so many other MMOG's.
  • clockulaclockula Member
    This question really brings me to my days in Everquest 2. To this day I feel the dungeons of Everquest 2 were better than anything I've experienced since and I think a big part of it is that they were not a narrow band level wise but instead things became more difficult and challenging as you pushed deeper. I think it allows a more flexible narrative within each dungeon and allow a more enjoyable progression. In D&D terms, the uppermost floors of Undermountain are less dangerous as a result of the easy access to adventurers who keep those floors somewhat clear. Delve deeper however and you can find challenges and treasure unlike anything dreamt of.
  • TaiTai Member
    edited June 15
    I big hope your dungeon and raid system :3
    First: It would be nice to go from easy to difficult, but the thing I want most is to drop some having a unique items dungeons or drop unique craft material ( hard mode .. )


    Second: First Craft İtems < Dungeons items < Raid's items < Hard Mode Drop Materails(dungeon's and Raid's) Crafting Uniqe Set, dungeon&raid does not lose its effect in such a system

    it would be a good progress for our guild
  • Moving toward the center and moving to the deepest depth are not the same thing.
    Why not both ?
    That way less developed players can have the surface areas, where the more skilled players will actively seek out that greater threat for greater reward.

    I like the idea of moving off the beaten track to get more threat. But at then end of the day, many tracks actually give you islands between the tracks too.
    Also off the beaten track is only really thinking in 2D. You have altitude and depth which is also off the beaten track. Although whether you have to tie threat rather than succour to either is any bodies guess.
    Balance is good. Especially as exceptional threat/damage may require exceptional healing/repair, that the party is simply not capable of repairing.

    Should open world dungeons scale up in difficulty significantly as you go deeper (ex. level 30-50), or should the difficulty band of a given dungeon be more narrow from top to bottom (ex. level 45-50)?
  • DeliaszDeliasz Member, Settler
    I would approach it a bit differently.
    Firstly I have not read all posts ahead of me. It's based on my pure sick mind ;)

    I would divide this into 3 different dungeon types. All of them are open-world dungeons.

    1. Standard level orientated dungeon 10-15 LVL for example. Deeper you venture the level and ai of the mobs' increase. The standard one, not much to dwell on it.
    2. Challenging one / epic dungeon LVL 40-60. The dungeon could be divided into level zones with possible teleport feature. People who can complete part from 40-45 will be able to respawn from LVL 45 NPC inside of the dungeon. It would be of course after paying a certain fee for it. If you don't want to pay just run again from the start.
    After that, you would have 45-50, 50-55, and 60. All mobs and AI would need to adjust as well.
    3. Legendary dungeon level 60+ without any NPC to transport you. The dungeon should scale with the party composition and with the level of the gear. The dungeon should be with layers/levels and on each floor a boss. Every 3rd or 5th floor you would have a Legendary Boss witch respawns like once every so often (24h or more) but from the last kill not like scheduled one.
    All the above dungeons should be a PvP open as well. Challenging one could have some safe zones besides teleportation NPC.

    To sum up. The dungeon should be an adventure to gain items and to tie people's bonds closer.

    Thanks :D
    Time goes fast. Time is a speed freak :D
  • ireriireri Member
    Please have dungeons scale in difficulty through different levels or areas (ex. lvls 30-50.) Having played MMO's back when there were no group finders, dungeons were a more exiting, dynamic experience for it.

    Mixing the levels of PCs though the dungeon allowed for folks to meet different levels of experience, push their boundaries based on each group's expertise and get tips from veterans passing by. To use the example of levels 30-50 in the dungeon, if you have a good group at level 30, maybe you could go one or two rooms deeper and try level 35 mobs. At level 40, maybe you could talk a level 45 PC into your group to help you kill the named boss you keep wiping to.

    Coming in at level 50, there were so many times you ran into a train heading for the zoneline while you were waiting for your entire group to get there. It was exciting to see if you could handle ten level 30 mobs with only 1/2 a group there and rescue others. (MMO's used to be harder; more than three mobs your level in camp used to almost always result in wipes without good enough crowd control.) Reputations were made and folks talked based on who was helpful to lower levels and who was competent to run with. If you kept killing other groups because you ran from mobs you shouldn't have tried to take at your level, your infamy spread too. Everyone knew who was prone to causing trains of mobs through the zone.

    Having trouble figuring out how to pull a room without bringing the next one? Watch how some of the higher level groups clear their way through without wiping as they head deeper into the dungeon.

    Also, by having more groups in a dungeon working on different content, it made it faster at high levels to get to the content you wanted. If you have to go through four floors of mobs to get to the area you're trying to kill, if helps if the first three floors are mostly clear because of lower groups working their way through them. You didn't have to spend 30-45 minutes killing your way to where you want to be. Designers could also make it where mobs wouldn't attack you if you were so many levels above them. Or, designers can layout the dungeon different. How the dungeon is laid out determines what content higher level folks have to go through before reaching their destination. Give them a hole in the floor to drop through the different levels and they won't bother with the floors that are level 30, 35, 40 and 45; they can go straight to the level 50 area at the bottom.

    With a mix in levels, it also allowed you to find folks that were eager to try the content. Maybe today would be the day you would get into a higher level group as a healer that's a few levels too low since they are desperate for a healer. It wasn't assured that the group would survive, but it made it exciting and memorable. The longer folks spent in the dungeon (weeks to months) the more you got to know everyone that was working that dungeon. Folks knew which healers could heal higher level groups than their level and which didn't pay attention all the time and wiped groups because they were distracted for a few minutes. (For anyone whose jaws dropped when I said months, yes MMO's used to take more than 50 hours of exp per level at times.)

    If the loot dropped is equal to the level of the mob, then level 50's won't want to farm a level 30 mob that drops level 30 gear that they can't use or trade. In regards to crafting material drops, make them less common the bigger the difference in levels between the mob's level and the level of the group.
  • QuinQuin Member
    I always imagined that the loot should be scaled with the dungeon, but that would probably wreck the economy.

    If dungeon loot was to scale up with stronger monsters perhaps a random epic item generator could be built to factor the increased value of loot.

    For instance killing a high level boss might reward a player with an Efreet comb that predicts the exact time a character will die when they use it. This of course would add a scripted debuff that would automatically kill a character when the timer reaches zero unless the player can drop or sell the item.

    I do like the above suggestions of making the dungeons a bit random. Having them fixed for casual farming and scale when preforming a quest might not be a bad compromise.
  • For open world based on the question I don't think the entire zone/area would be scaled just the part of that zone where the "dungeon" is located. If that is the case i like the wider range for scaling. In instanced dungeons i like a tighter window so you don't waste time clearing stuff you don't need, but in open world hopefully you could just walk by that part of dungeon b/c lower level player groups will be in that area. This would bring more players to more zones, and options are fun. Higher level group might save you as they run by and then in turn the lower level group maybe close to a difficulty jump sees the higher group engage the group and learn in turn from other players in the community. Or instead of helping the opposite could happen as well =(

    Thanks for the topic. Cheers.
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    Ahsoka, out
  • ilisfetilisfet Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 15
    This ones a hard one. It depends on what a dungeon is.

    Is it something to conquer? Or is it something to explore?
    Is it consumable content? Or a zone in its own right?

    If a dungeon is something where you're supposed to reach the end in one run, then the level range should be short. It's supposed to be run through afterall.

    If a dungeon is something you're supposed to explore bit by bit, exiting when you run out of supplies and coming back later -- a slow burn -- then it makes sense to increase the level range.


    In my own experience, when I hear "dungeon" I expect something like ESO, where they are 15-20 minute romps through a place with some bosses. But upon reminiscing further, I recall RuneScape's dungeons... those tended to be expansive, lengthy cave networks, with multiple entrances and vast level ranges (13 to 129 in some cases!). RuneScape's underground was a frontier to explore, rather than content to consume. It was go as far as you can and delve deeper when you're better prepared. Despite not being what first comes to mind at the term "dungeon," these RuneScape style long haul expeditions are what I prefer ...and remember.

    ESO dungeons only stick out in memory for their spectacle or teammate's ineptitude; RuneScape's dungeons stick out for their slow crawls, never knowing if the next enemy is beyond you, and mad dashing through places you have no hope of surviving to the one little pocket of safety so you can gather some resources ...then mad dashing back out while praying not to get one-shot.

    There was one instance of RuneScape underground, the cave beneath Lumbridge Swamp. I climbed down once out of curiosity and was met with pitch blackness and my health rapidly ticking away as tiny somethings continually nibbled at my flesh. Later, I came back with a lantern and was able to take my first proper step. The path was winding, narrow, hands sprouting from walls and the constant worry of my lantern oil running out, leaving me to be eaten alive in that noir cavern. After retreating once more, unable to pass the wall hands, I trained Slayer and came back with a spiky helmet. Now any time a hand tried to grab me, it got stabbed instead. I was able to progress further, and with a bit of Agility, squeeze through some gaps and scramble up some walls. And... deep within the cave I found something I was never expecting: a goblin village. A friendly one. So began one of the longest quest chains I've ever been on, helping in and around that underground village so deep in the darkness.

    That adventure was 12 years ago.
  • janusjanus Member, Braver of Worlds
    If there are very many dungeons, might as well make them narrow. But if you don't want to see a dungeon around every corner, probably have to make them wider in order to provide content to all types of players.

    By the way... you might want to think (for maybe a small portion of the dungeons) about something deviating from the usual hack-and-slash type usually encountered. Sure, big nice boss-fights are awesome, but maybe a few dungeons should focus on something "different" (crafter dungeons, lore-related riddles, minigames, (timed) tests regarding exploration or trade)?? Just an idea.

    Then it's not "lvl 30-50" but "lvl 20+, Professional cook and professional alchemist required, fast mount recommended". :-)
  • Having multiple level rooms/zones would be a massive bonus for exploration, and keeping dungeon area relevant. I would say if that's the path that's taken, there should be multiple entrances for different content, or some type of travel in dungeon.
  • If you guys are planning on doing dungeons similar to how WoW does it then go for it!
    It's fun to be able to attempt the harder stuff and get crushed, or get lucky and get the better loot.

    It'd be nice to be able to explore a dungeon, but oh... don't go over there till you are higher level, that mob will kill you.
    and that way we have a reason to go back!

    Honestly with the way AoC is gonna play, this style of dungeon would fit pretty nicely.
  • THIS IS A HUGE DESIGN DISCUSSION TO HAVE! Challenges per level range is just the tip of the iceberg, I believe there can be a higher degree of flexibility that can be used to adapt to the threat level of the players who engage. So yes it can be 30-50 level enemies, but they are presented as 30 initially, and ramp up based on the players they are fighting. Heck they could be 10 to 50. Read on...

    So an enemy can be designed with an adaptive level range. Fight them with a party average of 10 and 8 players, and you fight the normal version of the enemies with normal behaviors. For every 2.5 to 5 levels average above 10, the behaviors and capabilities change. Suddenly they're blocking more shots, they're lunching coordinated heals, they're ignoring the tank and rushing the back line support folks, using ranged attacks when they used to only melee, using an aura of protection to reduce the damage they take, etc. So by the time the players are up to level 50, the level 10 enemies are now exhibiting powerful behaviors, each one has a pet and a summon, and defensive buffs with coordinated healing to make their level 10 health and armor last longer. Each layer of adaptive scaling would increase experience or loot as well, or pulling a quickie out of my EQN/LM era suggestions, the QUALITY of the loot is better, so you get pristine enchanted copper daggers and marbled bear butts from the high level versions of what can be a low level enemy.

    An example I use--and for all I know this was built int an existing module--was a friend's explanation of a D&D campaign event many years ago, where their high level characters were screwed over by a teeming mass of goblins or kobolds, who individually couldn't hurt the players, nor tried, as they were just coming in to steal an item and run off. Suddenly a buncha mid-to-high level characters found themselves looted of potions and other important goods. Alternatively, a lower level party could have gotten to fight SOME non-thieving standard goblins in the same space, but not a massive thieving horde.

  • CheesyCheesy Member, Pioneer
    I think that an increasing difficulty the deeper you go into dungeons sounds like a great way to make dungeons more interesting. It's possible that this would bring players more choices regarding dungeons instead of the singular choice of completing them at once, maybe you start by checking the beginning of the dungeon to grind and as you get more confident/level up or if you choose to group up you can try to finish the more difficult part of the dungeon for the juicy loot and increased experience gain. I dont think that this should be the only type of dungeon and that the other slow scaling type of dungeon can exist as well. But I do think that the significant scaling dungeons should be way more common as it is a more cool and interesting concept in my opinion.
  • crownofthornscrownofthorns Member, Settler
    I think some level of scaling can be useful. I think of Old School Runescape like - you can go farm the beginning of a cave for hours, eventually you find out theres some stuff deep in the cave that are good to farm you didn't realize or couldn't make it to before. I'm not sure I like it for ALL dungeons, but having a few dungeons with separate wings or deep secrets that you can come back to at a later level is cool. Especially if its good loot/materials to farm. It increases the "knowledge ceiling" in my opinion.
  • HartwellHartwell Member, Braver of Worlds
    I think it would depend on the dungeon. I do like the idea of dungeons with wide level ranges, although I think somethings should be considered when it comes to the dungeon layout.

    Some dungeons you could have several wings that players could quickly identify and say "Haunted Cavern, lvl 35 wing." or "Fortress of Doom, Bunker." Then those players going into the level 35 wing wouldn't have any issues. That's all they are there for. It would be easy for players to understand and not create any tension. Maybe a level 50 group would do it on the side, but those level 50 players would be heading over to the level 50 wing where all the evil generals are.

    However, if it's a linear experience, low level players might bump into some trouble. Say the end boss is level 50 and the first boss is level 30. Why would level 50 players want to play with a level 30 if they would need to later boot them? They would need to travel back to town to get another player to progress deeper into the dungeon. In this kind of dungeon, it would be better to not waste time with a large range of levels. The high levels would try to plow through the low level stuff as fast as possible, leaving nothing for the low levels, as they progress through bosses too high level for those below them.

    Maybe an otherwise linear dungeon could have secret passage ways, revealed by high level class mechanics, that could be used to skip past low level content and straight to high level stuff? That way a dungeon could be somewhat linear, but it would still act like a dungeon with different branches.
  • EvachEvach Member
    edited June 17
    Normally I'm used to having the experience "handed to me", if I'm within the level range then I can clear all the content of the dungeon. Though historically there would be attunements to qualify for different sections of dungeons, which is cool (hardcore) but if it becomes meta to respec for 1/2 1/3 1/4 of a dungeon that'd be ridiculous (ESPECIALLY as a gold sink). If respec or gear change is required, then free respec or unlimited inventory is a must, and that would ruin economy and travel risk/reward gathering systems. Overall I prefer clearing a dungeon as I meet the "level" requirement in 1 trip.

    Applying this to AoC, open world dungeons may be even larger scale, and their sections for attunement/level variation may be very obvious or even a trap for players. Trap would be cool and hardcore, but I side towards clear demarcations such as environment or character variations, walking into the next room a seeing woah this looks different.
    If player levels range 30 - 50, then 50's will likely godlike gank the lower levels and ruin the content that is meant for them. Yes this will happen anyways, but guiding players to the same location will encourage this and it will cause a disparity between levels, meaning firstcomers get an edge, and latecomers will need to avoid the content or get whipped constantly in attempting it and have an even more difficult experience sans initial dungeon gear pass. Overall I prefer players to be guided to proper level "zones", so dungeons should be divided as well.

    If it was a skillcheck further in the dungeon, rather than gear or level check, then that would be best. Since it's open world, then players can just zerg and add more members to bypass skill check; downside would be zergs have to share same loot on more members. Lols.
  • LieutenantToastLieutenantToast Moderator, Staff
    Thanks everyone for joining in with your feedback on our latest Dev Discussion! While I'm reading through all your notes now to compile them for the team, please feel free to keep sharing your thoughts here in the meantime <3

    Can't wait to see what you've got for our next Dev Discussion topic!
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