noaani wrote: » halbarz wrote: » StevenSharif wrote: » Lostforever wrote: » StevenSharif wrote: » noaani wrote: » That reply was "fuck you". Not to me (nor from me), not the game, but specifically to the creative director. 👍 Hi Steven, I am hard core PvE player who loves to min/max my character and performance. I love going through my combat logs and analysis them to improve my performance. I understand there will be no in built dps meters but do you plan to log combat text to a log so that we can go through them at later time? I come from Everquest 2 (many of your developers worked on that game) and that game does not have in built dps meters but it has detailed combat log. So you plan to do something like this please? Thanks Hello friend, Yes there are combat logs So just to clarify @Steven Sharif the combat logs will reflect only the individual's output or also that of the group? In the case of the group, there is no difference between a meter and these logs. You can easily just use a log tool to analyze the information. Thank you in advance for your reply If it is the individual information only, combat trackers will just be run on servers that all members of the raid need to join. The end result is the same as if the suggestion I made months ago were enacted.
halbarz wrote: » StevenSharif wrote: » Lostforever wrote: » StevenSharif wrote: » noaani wrote: » That reply was "fuck you". Not to me (nor from me), not the game, but specifically to the creative director. 👍 Hi Steven, I am hard core PvE player who loves to min/max my character and performance. I love going through my combat logs and analysis them to improve my performance. I understand there will be no in built dps meters but do you plan to log combat text to a log so that we can go through them at later time? I come from Everquest 2 (many of your developers worked on that game) and that game does not have in built dps meters but it has detailed combat log. So you plan to do something like this please? Thanks Hello friend, Yes there are combat logs So just to clarify @Steven Sharif the combat logs will reflect only the individual's output or also that of the group? In the case of the group, there is no difference between a meter and these logs. You can easily just use a log tool to analyze the information. Thank you in advance for your reply
StevenSharif wrote: » Lostforever wrote: » StevenSharif wrote: » noaani wrote: » That reply was "fuck you". Not to me (nor from me), not the game, but specifically to the creative director. 👍 Hi Steven, I am hard core PvE player who loves to min/max my character and performance. I love going through my combat logs and analysis them to improve my performance. I understand there will be no in built dps meters but do you plan to log combat text to a log so that we can go through them at later time? I come from Everquest 2 (many of your developers worked on that game) and that game does not have in built dps meters but it has detailed combat log. So you plan to do something like this please? Thanks Hello friend, Yes there are combat logs
Lostforever wrote: » StevenSharif wrote: » noaani wrote: » That reply was "fuck you". Not to me (nor from me), not the game, but specifically to the creative director. 👍 Hi Steven, I am hard core PvE player who loves to min/max my character and performance. I love going through my combat logs and analysis them to improve my performance. I understand there will be no in built dps meters but do you plan to log combat text to a log so that we can go through them at later time? I come from Everquest 2 (many of your developers worked on that game) and that game does not have in built dps meters but it has detailed combat log. So you plan to do something like this please? Thanks
StevenSharif wrote: » noaani wrote: » That reply was "fuck you". Not to me (nor from me), not the game, but specifically to the creative director. 👍
noaani wrote: » That reply was "fuck you". Not to me (nor from me), not the game, but specifically to the creative director.
halbarz wrote: » Let's be honest now, having group combat logs would pretty much give everything they need for their meter. So you got what you wanted
StevenSharif wrote: » My decision is not to allow DPS meters nor add-ons. I feel we have adequate measures in place to prevent a majority of potential third party trackers.
StevenSharif wrote: » Yes there are combat logs
noaani wrote: » StevenSharif wrote: » My decision is not to allow DPS meters nor add-ons. I feel we have adequate measures in place to prevent a majority of potential third party trackers. and StevenSharif wrote: » Yes there are combat logs are mutually exclusive, if we assume that the common understanding of combat logs holds true in this case. I find it hard to believe that there would be a drastic 180° turn on this topic in less than a day.
Atama wrote: » noaani wrote: » StevenSharif wrote: » My decision is not to allow DPS meters nor add-ons. I feel we have adequate measures in place to prevent a majority of potential third party trackers. and StevenSharif wrote: » Yes there are combat logs are mutually exclusive, if we assume that the common understanding of combat logs holds true in this case. I find it hard to believe that there would be a drastic 180° turn on this topic in less than a day. My assumption is that Steven doesn’t want some meter announcing to everyone how much damage you are doing. But if you want to go through the trouble of taking the data, parsing it, and figuring out what happened it’s okay. I’m also uncertain if combat logs show what everyone did or just you. I assume the latter, in which case you can use the logs to judge your own performance but not to judge others. I wonder if in a cooperative setting (like a guild doing content together) if it will be possible for everyone to send their combat logs voluntarily to a person to evaluate them so they can get help about how to improve.
Isharya wrote: » You talk about guilds shaming and excluding you but do you want to be in a guild that would do that anyway? if the people you are guilded with a meter shamers do you really want to be IN that guild?
Isharya wrote: » But since Steve said he wants to avoid 3rd party i assume then the data wont be output to a log FILE but just be a tab in the chat window (like how other games have it). That's fine too, but that data is in a memory buffer on your computer somewhere.. someone will find it. And encrypting that data will be a lot of effort to have the game decrypt it later for someone to crack the encryption and get the data anyway.
Atama wrote: » Isharya wrote: » You talk about guilds shaming and excluding you but do you want to be in a guild that would do that anyway? if the people you are guilded with a meter shamers do you really want to be IN that guild? This, totally. I’ve seen these “hardcore” guilds and avoid them. If you don’t want to be judged and pushed don’t join them.
Valento92 wrote: » Well, to tell the truth there's always a barrier for some people. The bad part about DPS meters isn't the system per se but the people that surround it and display shameful behavior because of it, especially on non-premade scenarios where you don't even know the people that you are cursing for DPS thingies.
lokympg wrote: » GazerGrazer wrote: » StevenSharif wrote: » Hello friends! I love reading all of the comments and opinions here. There was also a very large thread on dps meters A little while back, where I felt Noanni articulated the position in favor of DPS meters very well. My decision is not to allow DPS meters nor add-ons. I feel we have adequate measures in place to prevent a majority of potential third party trackers. I know this subject has passionate voices on both sides and I respect the various opinions and positions many of you have expressed ❤️ This makes me the big sad. I will still try the game because I love MMOs, but this makes me worried. I'll go in with an open mind, and hope you prove me wrong. Imagine not playing an amazing game because it does not have a feature that shows a number on your screen telling if you are 'good' or 'bad'.
GazerGrazer wrote: » StevenSharif wrote: » Hello friends! I love reading all of the comments and opinions here. There was also a very large thread on dps meters A little while back, where I felt Noanni articulated the position in favor of DPS meters very well. My decision is not to allow DPS meters nor add-ons. I feel we have adequate measures in place to prevent a majority of potential third party trackers. I know this subject has passionate voices on both sides and I respect the various opinions and positions many of you have expressed ❤️ This makes me the big sad. I will still try the game because I love MMOs, but this makes me worried. I'll go in with an open mind, and hope you prove me wrong.
StevenSharif wrote: » Hello friends! I love reading all of the comments and opinions here. There was also a very large thread on dps meters A little while back, where I felt Noanni articulated the position in favor of DPS meters very well. My decision is not to allow DPS meters nor add-ons. I feel we have adequate measures in place to prevent a majority of potential third party trackers. I know this subject has passionate voices on both sides and I respect the various opinions and positions many of you have expressed ❤️
noaani wrote: » Atama wrote: » Isharya wrote: » You talk about guilds shaming and excluding you but do you want to be in a guild that would do that anyway? if the people you are guilded with a meter shamers do you really want to be IN that guild? This, totally. I’ve seen these “hardcore” guilds and avoid them. If you don’t want to be judged and pushed don’t join them. I "am" those hardcore guilds, but I don't judge, I attempt to help. It's far more productive.
GazerGrazer wrote: » noaani wrote: » Atama wrote: » Isharya wrote: » You talk about guilds shaming and excluding you but do you want to be in a guild that would do that anyway? if the people you are guilded with a meter shamers do you really want to be IN that guild? This, totally. I’ve seen these “hardcore” guilds and avoid them. If you don’t want to be judged and pushed don’t join them. I "am" those hardcore guilds, but I don't judge, I attempt to help. It's far more productive. I've literally never been in a guild where I've been benched for having low DPS. I've been bottom DPS while progressing through mythic content in WoW without fear of being benched. The only time you get benched is if you're FAR below average. If everyone on average is pulling 80-40k DPS, and you're pulling 20k DPS. Yes, You will get benched, but honestly, you deserve to get benched. Why do you expect 19 other players to carry you through content while you under perform? You're the toxic player in this situation not the 19 other people. You're the snowflake everyone is always complaining about. Practice, get better and contribute to the group instead of hold them back. You should feel bad that you're the reason 19 other people can't down the boss, but the problem is, in your world, they can tell you're holding them back. That mindset is the reason every MMO fails. Hopefully, the content in AoC will be classic Wow levels of easy, so the under performing players don't matter.
Neurath wrote: » You've just singled out the twentieth player for low DPS and claim 19 others can't complete the content because of 1 player? I would blame the raid as a whole, because, Raids aren't always about DPS. Do you refer to a point when a Boss has 60k Health left when the Boss wipes the raid, or just generally want to bad mouth low DPSers at any point. I do not see how a player with 20k Damage Done should be penalised in this manner. It would only mean 19 other players would need to do less than 4k extra DPS in total, but of course, the elitist Min/Maxers only want to top the charts, not actually perform to the benefit of all in a Raid Group. Thanks for the behind the scenes look at a DPS Meter Challenge.
