Cosmetic concerns...

Hey all,

First of all: I am totally okay with cosmetics being in the ingame store for real money. We got a reasonable monthly fee and no box cost for that. Fine with me.

But I worry about the cash shop cosmetics being better that the cosmetics to be earned ingame.

Yes, yes I know that Steven said there will be similar cosmetics to the real money ones with a different color coloration or smth like that. The problem is one will be better that the other one. If you create similar cosmetics with just small differences one will be more desirable and the question is which one of them will it be.
The path of least resistance for money or the hard rocky way ingame with the journey of achieving the better one during a amazing battle or storyline to remember? Similarity kills the game value because the most people will choose the path of least resistance and the people with the ingame effort will have no reason to pursuit the similar, slightly different one. Why invest the time if I can just flip my credit card and get a almost identical cosmetic and look as awesome as the people who actually played the game to look the same?
In my humble opinion this is not much better as real money cosmetics better looking than the earned cosmetics. The result will be the same.

To prevent this from happening the cosmetics earned by playing the game without the cash shop have to be better looking, than the real money ones.
Again: don't get me wrong. I have no problem with ppl. buying amazing looking sets of armor and showing them of, enjoy the appearance during the game and simply be happy with it. But I have a problem with buying the absolute best looking cosmetic appearance with real money and devaluing the time invested in the character progression.

For example the cash shop cosmetic skin for a fighter has shoulder plate armor with barbaric, fierce looking spikes on it. Looks awesome, you can show off and new players will get a sense of fear when you charge at them and kind of impaling them with your shoulders. No problem with that.
But when you want to have a shoulder plate armor in the shape of a terrifying skull with barbaric, fierce looking spikes on it, you have to earn character progression ingame and feel the accomplishment of investing time in your character.

I hope my concerns and the example are understandable and this fear of mine will be proven unnecessary over time....

PS: I apologise for mistakes, English is not my first language.

Comments

  • AmmaAmma Member
    I dont get it. You are telling us that you dont want it and at the same time you have no problem with it!?!?!?!?
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    All we know is what Steven has said and the fact that he seems to really side with the players in all regards. I think that the in game cosmetics will be at least as good as the cash shop cosmetics.

    We’ll have to wait and see, but so far we have not been given any reason to worry.
  • Amma wrote: »
    I dont get it. You are telling us that you dont want it and at the same time you have no problem with it!?!?!?!?

    I have a problem with killing character progression on the cosmetic part. Not with cosmetics in general.
  • vmangman wrote: »
    All we know is what Steven has said and the fact that he seems to really side with the players in all regards. I think that the in game cosmetics will be at least as good as the cash shop cosmetics.

    We’ll have to wait and see, but so far we have not been given any reason to worry.

    As I am afraif that "at least as good as the cash shop" wont be enough :(
    Ofc I think Steven is on the side of the players but he also runs a business. Only time will tell where he will draw the line of playerside and cashflow from the shop......
  • If the Cosmetic Store items were worse than those gained in-game, why would anyone buy from the Cosmetic Store? Lol

    I think we can safely assume that the items bought with extra RL cash will be that little bit better than the ordinary ones.
  • daveywavey wrote: »
    If the Cosmetic Store items were worse than those gained in-game, why would anyone buy from the Cosmetic Store? Lol

    I think we can safely assume that the items bought with extra RL cash will be that little bit better than the ordinary ones.

    Yea... kind of sad. If this is the reality I hope the differences will at least be minmal.
  • sarkadosarkado Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    edited October 28
    daveywavey wrote: »
    If the Cosmetic Store items were worse than those gained in-game, why would anyone buy from the Cosmetic Store? Lol

    I think we can safely assume that the items bought with extra RL cash will be that little bit better than the ordinary ones.

    100% Agree with this statement. I've purchased a ton of the monthly cosmetic updates because they are very unique and will most likely not have entirely similar skins that will be available in-game for unlock. If I thought for a second I could get every one of these skins they release monthly for free there would be no point to their monthly cosmetic updates.

    I do agree that they will definitely do the obtainable armor in-game justice with what they've been showing so far from their updates. So, I honestly wouldn't be too worried unless you see cosmetic skins that you're in love with... You may have to pony up if that's the case.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    I just think with games today we are lucky not to have a cash shop or loot boxes and that everything is just skins
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Steven has already said that the best looking cosmetics will be the ones earnable in-game. For example, there are "legendary" cosmetics that can only be earned in-game that will apparently look way better than the shop ones.

    Now, if you're looking for a game where there is no transmogging and no costumes, then you're gonna be disappointed. Ashes will have less "visual progression" than most games because of the costumes obviously, but if someone has a sick piece of gear that is only earnable in-game, then they're probably gonna be more likely to show that off than the buyable stuff.
    nI17Ea4.png
  • CptBrownBeardCptBrownBeard Member, Warrior of Old
    I think it's also important to remember that aesthetics are subjective. It might be that one of us likes the cosmetic in the shop over the version in-game, while another person prefers the opposite.

    Just as an example there have been some monthly cosmetics I had no interest in, but if I saw a slightly recolored version in-game I might find the change appealing then.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds
    I've said this before but it is literally impossible to satisfy what you are asking for here. Whatever appearances are "better" is a 100% subjective determination. I love the color blue, so if the cash shop has the blue version of an outfit that is gold in-game, then I'm going to think the cash shop has the better item. You may think the blue one is boring and the gold one looks fancier and is literally shinier, so you think that you are getting the better item by earning it in-game. We are both right and both wrong, because it all comes down to opinion.

    There have been many cash shop appearances that I have seen and thought "I MUST HAVE THAT!!!!" and I bought them. There have been many that I thought looked like torn garbage sacks rolled around in dead leaves and rotten moss and wondered who would be crazy enough to waste real money on them. And there have been many that I thought weren't awful but weren't worth the money or just weren't my "thing" and I passed on them but understand someone else wanting them. Either way, no two people will value different cosmetics the same way.

    The only objective way to measure cosmetics is through rarity. And the cash shop will always win there, because if an appearance is available only through Kickstarter or as a monthly cosmetic then never shows up again, then if you didn't buy it when you had a chance, you will never ever have it (aside from buying someone else's account). So from that objective viewpoint, the items you earn in-game will always be of lesser value. There's nothing you can do about that, but that's okay. As said before in this thread, if they didn't have some kind of value over items earned in-game, nobody would pay anything for them, and so we wouldn't have that additional revenue stream that lets us not have to buy expansions or pay similar game costs.
    U752vHP.png
  • Talents wrote: »
    Steven has already said that the best looking cosmetics will be the ones earnable in-game. For example, there are "legendary" cosmetics that can only be earned in-game that will apparently look way better than the shop ones.

    Now, if you're looking for a game where there is no transmogging and no costumes, then you're gonna be disappointed. Ashes will have less "visual progression" than most games because of the costumes obviously, but if someone has a sick piece of gear that is only earnable in-game, then they're probably gonna be more likely to show that off than the buyable stuff.
    That sounds veeeery good :smiley: do you have a source where he says that?
    Little visual progression in game is something I can deal with when the best (aka legendary) cosmetic can not be purchased in the shop. So I you can easy spot the biggest badass who cleared every content of the game to get the legendary skin. And you have something to strive to.
    Even one legendary skin for your items would be enough here I think.
    I think it's also important to remember that aesthetics are subjective. It might be that one of us likes the cosmetic in the shop over the version in-game, while another person prefers the opposite.

    Just as an example there have been some monthly cosmetics I had no interest in, but if I saw a slightly recolored version in-game I might find the change appealing then.
    Ofc "better looking" is subjective. Maybe I was not clear enough what I mean by that. With "better" I refer to the time end effort spent to make the cosmetic. Also being more polished more detailed and with more small features than others.
    Cosmetics with identical effort of polish and features are of course subjective to individual taste.
    Atama wrote: »
    I've said this before but it is literally impossible to satisfy what you are asking for here. Whatever appearances are "better" is a 100% subjective determination. I love the color blue, so if the cash shop has the blue version of an outfit that is gold in-game, then I'm going to think the cash shop has the better item. You may think the blue one is boring and the gold one looks fancier and is literally shinier, so you think that you are getting the better item by earning it in-game. We are both right and both wrong, because it all comes down to opinion.

    There have been many cash shop appearances that I have seen and thought "I MUST HAVE THAT!!!!" and I bought them. There have been many that I thought looked like torn garbage sacks rolled around in dead leaves and rotten moss and wondered who would be crazy enough to waste real money on them. And there have been many that I thought weren't awful but weren't worth the money or just weren't my "thing" and I passed on them but understand someone else wanting them. Either way, no two people will value different cosmetics the same way.

    The only objective way to measure cosmetics is through rarity. And the cash shop will always win there, because if an appearance is available only through Kickstarter or as a monthly cosmetic then never shows up again, then if you didn't buy it when you had a chance, you will never ever have it (aside from buying someone else's account). So from that objective viewpoint, the items you earn in-game will always be of lesser value. There's nothing you can do about that, but that's okay. As said before in this thread, if they didn't have some kind of value over items earned in-game, nobody would pay anything for them, and so we wouldn't have that additional revenue stream that lets us not have to buy expansions or pay similar game costs.
    Kickstarter and people who bought the early access packs are a part who made the game possible in the first place. I am ok with them having unique rewards for that. :)
    The rarity is the key here. The legendary cosmetics are available ingame and are not the most expensive item in the cash shop to make them the rarest.The legendary skin has to be rewarded for the most difficult content in the game obviously.
  • Talents wrote: »
    For example, there are "legendary" cosmetics that can only be earned in-game that will apparently look way better than the shop ones.

    On par, not better.

  • SathragoSathrago Member
    edited October 28
    Like was mentioned earlier, look at the shop items and then look at the ingame rare items. One will look a bit better but has no meaning while the other will broadcast to others that you are a big D who got an awesome piece of gear.

    We are not paying an initial cost for the game, only a sub of 15 a month and the cash shop pays the rest via cosmetics. I feel that it is a worth while trade.
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    Ravudha wrote: »
    Talents wrote: »
    For example, there are "legendary" cosmetics that can only be earned in-game that will apparently look way better than the shop ones.

    On par, not better.

    According to this quote from Steven (https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Obtaining_cosmetics) they will be better. Of course that’s subjective, but that is what has been said.
  • Sathrago wrote: »
    Like was mentioned earlier, look at the shop items and then look at the ingame rare items. One will look a bit better but has no meaning while the other will broadcast to others that you are a big D who got an awesome piece of gear.

    We are not paying an initial cost for the game, only a sub of 15 a month and the cash shop pays the rest via cosmetics. I feel that it is a worth while trade.
    I hope your scenario will be true.... The Trade is fine regardless of the cosmetics. No box costs are ok. But the extra flavor with the character progression on gear is needed. I hope they do not screw that up.
  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    Ravudha wrote: »
    Talents wrote: »
    For example, there are "legendary" cosmetics that can only be earned in-game that will apparently look way better than the shop ones.

    On par, not better.

    ingame.png
    south-park-rabble-rabble-rabbl-53b58d315aa49.jpg
  • PhyleXPhyleX Member
    edited October 28
    <3B) Sauber, so muss das sein :)
  • WarthWarth Member
    Ravudha wrote: »
    Talents wrote: »
    For example, there are "legendary" cosmetics that can only be earned in-game that will apparently look way better than the shop ones.

    On par, not better.

    incorrect
  • sarkadosarkado Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    edited October 28
    The argument of on par, not better is going to be subjective to the user once again. It may look amazing to 99 people, but garbage to 1 person. It's all a matter of opinion. Hands down there will be people looking for a theme and may end up transmogging the legendary skin to something else just because the stats on the piece are far above anything else.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    sarkado wrote: »
    The argument of on par, not better is going to be subjective to the user once again. It may look amazing to 99 people, but garbage to 1 person. It's all a matter of opinion. Hands down there will be people looking for a theme and may end of Transmoging the legendary skin to something else just because the stats on the piece are far above anything else.

    bingo you hit it on the head.
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    edited October 28
    Ravudha wrote: »
    Talents wrote: »
    For example, there are "legendary" cosmetics that can only be earned in-game that will apparently look way better than the shop ones.

    On par, not better.

    ingame.png

    Interesting, that sounds better - I was going off the AMA, which was 3 days before this quote, where he says on par at 1:56:55:

  • SorfSorf Member
    Every month when a pack is released there is always people that ask in discord etc, and every month people are reminded not too worry that the purchased skins are not going to make the in-game rewards less worthwhile.

    I'll copy the comment from 30/09/2020 AoC Discord by Steven since I can't upload screenshot:

    And we’ve shown some variants of the cosmetic skins in the past. But more importantly I’ve also stated that the cosmetic skins will not be like BDO where the achievable skins are trash by comparison.
  • SorfSorf Member
    edited October 28
    PhyleX wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    If the Cosmetic Store items were worse than those gained in-game, why would anyone buy from the Cosmetic Store? Lol

    I think we can safely assume that the items bought with extra RL cash will be that little bit better than the ordinary ones.

    Yea... kind of sad. If this is the reality I hope the differences will at least be minmal.

    Here's a quote from Steven 04/08/2020 AoC Discord also, it's like a monthly concern they should probably put it in the description of the packs :D

    Yes we offer cosmetics for players who wish to support the project early. The exclusive nature of the limited availability is something I think collectors value. If you buy cosmetics as an mmo player, I know I enjoyed if the cosmetic is rare and not every girl at the party is wearing the same dress.
    In addition, these cosmetics are used to populate the world through npc variants and color/texture changes so their offering aligns with our production schedule.
    The good thing about these packs is they contain no p2w advantages and there is no box cost, so from a mechanics standpoint you do not need to buy them to excel in the game on launch.

    And also, there are comparable and subjectively more grand cosmetics achievable in game as well.
  • My concerns are solved :)
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    PhyleX wrote: »
    My concerns are solved :)

    you have no idea how rare that is on the forums
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Nagash wrote: »
    PhyleX wrote: »
    My concerns are solved :)

    you have no idea how rare that is on the forums

    Well... sometime it happens :). The rest of the game looks fine to me. The Class balance can be a debatable issue, but that will start with the beta. Long time until then....
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    PhyleX wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    PhyleX wrote: »
    My concerns are solved :)

    you have no idea how rare that is on the forums

    Well... sometime it happens :). The rest of the game looks fine to me. The Class balance can be a debatable issue, but that will start with the beta. Long time until then....

    If only more people on the forums acted like you, I would still have some sanity left :D
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • Nagash wrote: »
    If only more people on the forums acted like you, I would still have some sanity left :D

    But, then you wouldn't be you!
  • Nagash wrote: »
    PhyleX wrote: »
    Nagash wrote: »
    PhyleX wrote: »
    My concerns are solved :)

    you have no idea how rare that is on the forums

    Well... sometime it happens :). The rest of the game looks fine to me. The Class balance can be a debatable issue, but that will start with the beta. Long time until then....

    If only more people on the forums acted like you, I would still have some sanity left :D

    Thanks for the praise, mate :)
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