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Do NOT Hire ANY Blizzard rejects....especially Class Design.
DaRougaroux
Member
*********Just want to point out I made this post a while ago and look how it has aged. I was spot on. Look at Blizzard now. Shadowlands is a epic failure and Blizzard is in a lawsuit.*******
If you dont want your game to die from the inside.. If ANY Blizzard devs, particularly WoW devs who were in the upper decision making such as, PvP or Class design or had any final say in game development. DO NOT HIRE THEM OR THIS GAME WILL ROT FROM THE INSIDE. Just dont do it. Dont. They have created a TEDIOUS game, not a FUN game. They are hell bent on time gating rather than making fun content. Classes are the worst they have ever been right now with people in PvP dying inside a single stun or interupt. Classes like Druids and Paladins are represented in the top 15 in Arena BUT....IT'S ALL 3 SPECS~! Retribution, Protection AND Holy Paladins, ALL in the top 15. Druids too. There are classes where not even ONE spec is in the top 15. Not ONE.
Classes that are S Tier damage are also hard as hell to kill AND have top tier mobility and CC. Its completely absurd and any sign of balance is LONG GONE. Dev bias and incompetence is at an all time high right now. Yo have Tank specs like Prot Paladin that are out healing full spec'ed healers in PvP and still doing stupid damage. You have WW monks that have ALL the tools for damage but also self heal and have some of the best mobility in the game on top of constantly stunning, slowing and CCing anything you throw at them. Ret Paladins are constantly healing to full with little cost to mana at all and bursting people to death inside one of the longest stuns in the game. You have druids that are convoking people into oblivion in seconds and full mooning people to 0% health in one spell. Its so absolutely disgusting right now.
You cannot by definition, have balance when you have Tanks, healing OTHER PLAYERS better than a dedicated healer. You cannot have balance if you have damage dealers with self heals, high mobility AND near constant slows and CC, making it impossible for you to react to their damage. You cannot have healers, able to tank 5 to 6 players at once...they never die. Please do not hire any of these people. Let them destroy their own game, but dont let these Activision cooperate baffoons come to AoC and destroy it as well.
Don't do it. DO NOT HIRE ANY WoW upper devs for ANYTHING. Not Class design, not rewards and gearing, not scaling, not quest design, and DAMN SURE NOT PROFESSIONS. Dont do it.
The upper leadership is ego maniacal, doesnt listen to the player base at all and does what ever the hell they want, regardless of the repercussions.. In short, they know whats best for you, you dont know what you want, they will tell you. For over 5 years, an inflation of secondary systems, over bloated amounts of currencies and borrowed power has killed the game. They put in crap alpha and beta testers tell them wont work and dont address it until after 6 months in the game when people are leaving. Then to recover the loss of player revenue, they sell a mount in the store. Pathetic.
*****So after the AWC this past week, no one should be doubting me. Paladino in every match and the overwhelming predominant healer. In several matches, they accounted for 3 out of the 6 players in a signal match. Mages were healing better than any Warlock and were only behind Ret Panadins....The singles highest burst class in game, with STier CC and Mobility, was healing. For ridiculous amounts. PASSIVELY.
Nope. No Blizzard rejects. EVER.
If you dont want your game to die from the inside.. If ANY Blizzard devs, particularly WoW devs who were in the upper decision making such as, PvP or Class design or had any final say in game development. DO NOT HIRE THEM OR THIS GAME WILL ROT FROM THE INSIDE. Just dont do it. Dont. They have created a TEDIOUS game, not a FUN game. They are hell bent on time gating rather than making fun content. Classes are the worst they have ever been right now with people in PvP dying inside a single stun or interupt. Classes like Druids and Paladins are represented in the top 15 in Arena BUT....IT'S ALL 3 SPECS~! Retribution, Protection AND Holy Paladins, ALL in the top 15. Druids too. There are classes where not even ONE spec is in the top 15. Not ONE.
Classes that are S Tier damage are also hard as hell to kill AND have top tier mobility and CC. Its completely absurd and any sign of balance is LONG GONE. Dev bias and incompetence is at an all time high right now. Yo have Tank specs like Prot Paladin that are out healing full spec'ed healers in PvP and still doing stupid damage. You have WW monks that have ALL the tools for damage but also self heal and have some of the best mobility in the game on top of constantly stunning, slowing and CCing anything you throw at them. Ret Paladins are constantly healing to full with little cost to mana at all and bursting people to death inside one of the longest stuns in the game. You have druids that are convoking people into oblivion in seconds and full mooning people to 0% health in one spell. Its so absolutely disgusting right now.
You cannot by definition, have balance when you have Tanks, healing OTHER PLAYERS better than a dedicated healer. You cannot have balance if you have damage dealers with self heals, high mobility AND near constant slows and CC, making it impossible for you to react to their damage. You cannot have healers, able to tank 5 to 6 players at once...they never die. Please do not hire any of these people. Let them destroy their own game, but dont let these Activision cooperate baffoons come to AoC and destroy it as well.
Don't do it. DO NOT HIRE ANY WoW upper devs for ANYTHING. Not Class design, not rewards and gearing, not scaling, not quest design, and DAMN SURE NOT PROFESSIONS. Dont do it.
The upper leadership is ego maniacal, doesnt listen to the player base at all and does what ever the hell they want, regardless of the repercussions.. In short, they know whats best for you, you dont know what you want, they will tell you. For over 5 years, an inflation of secondary systems, over bloated amounts of currencies and borrowed power has killed the game. They put in crap alpha and beta testers tell them wont work and dont address it until after 6 months in the game when people are leaving. Then to recover the loss of player revenue, they sell a mount in the store. Pathetic.
*****So after the AWC this past week, no one should be doubting me. Paladino in every match and the overwhelming predominant healer. In several matches, they accounted for 3 out of the 6 players in a signal match. Mages were healing better than any Warlock and were only behind Ret Panadins....The singles highest burst class in game, with STier CC and Mobility, was healing. For ridiculous amounts. PASSIVELY.
Nope. No Blizzard rejects. EVER.
3
Comments
We do not know who presses the buttons but it won't be Mr. Programmer, or Mr. Designer, it tends to be Mr. Executive, or Mr. Chairman. I think the design outlook for Ashes won't be changed by WoW Devs even if WoW Devs are hired. Devs develop the game design, I doubt the game design will be changed so close to Alpha 1.
Sometimes, you take the best from a bad batch, sometimes you take the best from the best batch. Sometimes you take the whole batch and sometimes you take a partial batch. It all depends on the needs of the moment and the quality of the applicants. Refer people you like if you can, it is better to refer than to blacklist.
Alpha 1 will cause changes, no doubt about it, Alpha 2 will cause changes, no doubt about it. Beta 1 will see refinement and beta 2 should be close to a finished product. It would take new hires time to get up to speed. I doubt WoW Devs are anything to worry about. Just don't play WoW.
Balance is a massive issue for any MMORPG when you expand the playable races, playable classes and the additional skill advancements. There are more people who have tried WoW and left WoW than there are people playing WoW.
Those who claim WoW is a Gold Standard for Balance and Combat are either fools or liars. Some expansions have narrowed the balance issues and some expansions have widened the balance issues. Such is the nature of the beast.
The funny side remains that Ashes will have Hard Counters, balance will be present and balance won't be present at the same time.
The only people I have seen say this are people that have never played any other MMO's.
He was employed by blizzard and quit because he wasn't happy with how the game turned out.
So, yeah blizzard made a lot of mistakes...
He was also the same guy that came up with that trash tier "War Mode" pvp setup. (at least I think it was him) i'm good on him not being involved.
I feel like this is somewhat aimed at me, so I guess I'll answer. I have previously said that WoW is the gold standard when it comes to smoothness and responsiveness of combat animations. That has nothing to do with class design or balance.
Agreed, @maouw.
The best place for a WoW rant thread is in the WoW forums ...
I can't think of any time you have claimed WoW was balanced in any way, class design or otherwise.
You and I both agree that WoW has polish - it is by far the most polished MMO on the market, and always has been. This is why the game feels the way it does. It is nothing at all to do with mechanics, or with combat, or with anything that makes a game at all good itself.
Animations are a part of game polish, so are obviously something WoW has above any other MMO out there.
For good time:
Read OPs post in this guys voice, and imagine the eyeball popping out every time he uses CAPs.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
If Intrepid feels someone has the passion, skills, and mindset to follow the vision of the game then previously working at one of the most successful game companies on the planet shouldn't be considered an immediate disqualifier.
Personally think the problem with WoW is not that it is a bad game. One player said this about Black Desert that it was like a Mona Lisa and the developers were taking lipstick and drawing well...something on it not saying what. Think it is more of a one of the best MMOs ever created and seeing it become what it is now is kind of gut wrenching.
I do not kow about the hiring part, but would have to agree with the Original Post about problems with game balance. That game has hundreds of changes for class and nothing to show for it. And yes classes did seem to get worst and fun factor lost. Former Blizzard employess Created Guild Wars.....Not really into making blanket statements about groups of People.
But really their dungeouns as static as they are are pretty good. Expansions come out and millions of people start playing to get their fill of dungeon s and raids. Plus WoW classic dungeouns are considered by many have kind of legendary status. They are just too repatative so expansion comes out subs soar people get their fill of fun and wait till next expansion.
One of the problems with MMOs is that they are WoW clones and they do not realize they are cloning huge design mistakes when they do that. Does not look like Ashes of Creation is going to have this problem.
Oh man, you're an optimistic person! Please don't let us taint you!
I felt like, after Legion significantly tightened up spec identity, WoW does a pretty good job delivering 36 different playstyles. They are not all balanced in terms of difficulty (and indeed, playing a more difficult class does not mean your numbers are better) but, numbers aside, the few dozen I have played have fun rotations/priority systems. And in the traditional blizzard way, eventually every spec has its turn on top of the DPS pile - and for the majority of casuals, numeric difference between the specs is imperceptible anyway (Feral druid #1 to upper middle of the pack DPS for the first time in an age, who could have seen it coming).
Maybe issues with respect to utility? My mage has a lot of personal defensive tricks, my druid and paladin partners can shape entire encounters by themselves, but my warrior is mostly just along for the ride. Mobility is pretty good, but not a lot of tricks I can pull on to shape encounters.
In short I suppose I'm pretty happy with the 'feel' of Warcraft - the animations, as mentioned, and clean and evocative, the rotations/priorities are rewarding to learn, most classes have enough utility for me to feel like I can make interesting decisions as events unfold, and eventually every class/spec gets its turn to be 'top dps' for what that is worth.
Can anyone else share their thoughts on combat 'feel' from other games? I am admittedly a casual with respect to PvP but I'm interested in learning.
Bro. Your avatar. I'm crazy jealous. Freaking Danger Mouse! What a champ. You win the internet bro. /kowtow
I disagree. OP might as well say that b/c I worked at a Burger King I should be disqualified from working at a proper restaurant.
More times than not post like these just start a "WoW Sucks" echo chamber that brings little conversation that's actually relevant to AoC and creates an us vs them mentality, I've actually had people try to use the fact that I play WoW as a basis for dismissing my opinions and it's utterly ridiculous.
WoW has it's issues but by and large they are bred from the fact that it's a purely profit driven publicly traded company first and foremost, which has nothing to do w/ the developers themselves as they very likely have little to no say of anything as big picture as class design.
For AoE, I though they had no desire to have character to character game balance (or at least not do the constant Nerfing to try to create a perfect balance), and instead are focused on group balance where there isn't a dominant strategy.
Their archetype/class set up appears to allow for combinations of character classes, where there is bound to be one or more that's considered OP from an individual character perspective, while others may be viewed as trash. However, in a group setting it appears that the so-called trash character could play a greater role in the success or failure of the group than what the individual character is perceived to have. I believe that's an intentional design decision. So I think you'll see less of these "can do everything better than the specialist classes" that you see in WoW.
As for personnel. Pretty harsh declaration to make. I think it really comes down to the individual and whether or not they buy into the overall design of this game. You're going to do the same thing regardless of where they used to work.
Most of the time developers are also just people who do their job and follow orders from the people who decide to implement something. I think as long as the person is capable and shows that it can follow the design and mindset of ashes, it will be fine.
I thought the same but was stuck for words to put as politely. All the better to have a pool of talent from a range of complementary backgrounds to enrich the project.
Your not enriching your project when hire people that have proven themselves incompetent at their job at another company. You dont hire people who in the face of Classic WoW being monumentally successful, say when asked if Vanilla servers would ever be considered, "you dont want that...you think you do but you dont" proving how out of touch he is. Most upper echelon employees would have been fired for making such a disaster of a statement but no they made that fool the freaking President of the company!! Classic WoW saved Blizzrds WoW IP, period. You dont hire people when at Blizzcon, when faced with boos from the greatest of WoW fanboiz over diablo going mobile, state with absolute arrogance, "you guys dont have phones?"
Most of Blizzards lead devs are ALL of this mindset. They dont make games for the fans. They are corporate yes men that are only interested in money. Ask yourself why, when at the lowest point of BFA, instead of making the game better, instead of listening to the players, they threw together some pixels are started selling mounts at record pace, for 6 month subs?!
Nah, what you guys are saying sounds like sober reasoning, but in the face of the facts, it's just platitudes that have no substance in reality.
NO BLIZZARD REJECTS.
First, you can't blame anything in regards to a project the size of WoW on any one single developer.
Second, even if a developer was proven incompetent in one scenario, that doesn't mean they didn't learn from what happened.
Third, WoW is an undoubted success, financially. Any company in the world making any product would love to see their product have the success WoW had.
Fourth, even the people making the top level decisions for WoW are not necessarily people to avoid. The decisions they made were made for reasons that were specific to that project. Activision has shareholders that need to make a profit - that is the most important thing for that company. The decisions the people in charge of WoW made were made in order to facilitate that prime directive (if you will), and clearly, they succeeded in that.
Should those same people that made those specific decisions then end up working at Intrepid, where the prime directive is the game, not the shareholders, then those same people would make different decisions. Since they did such a good job with the previous game, clearly making decisions that provided the desired outcome, there is no reason at all to think they would not make decisions for Ashes that gave Intrepids desired outcome for this game. This applies to what you are saying.
You are speaking from a purely emotional perspective. You dislike WoW (as do I), and don't want Ashes to have anything to do with it (nor do I). The thing is, you are failing to understand how a project like this operates, and that most of the high level decisions are made to facilitate a specific goal.
If you change that goal, you change what decisions get made.
Since Ashes has a different goal to WoW, if those same people were making the same decisions, the result would be different.
Instead of being so negative, how about being positive? It is a lot more fun!
Or, this may not be the game for you.