maybe not a dps meter but what about this...

What do you guys think about this idea that I just got...? There is a lot of people who do not want dps meters and there is a lot of people who want to improve skill rotation, right? What if we had a trainig zone were there are those Training Dummy which tells you how´s doing dps doing compare to other players? if ya want to see how you are actually doing so you must go to the training zone and check it out, these Trainig Dummy could copilate all the info from others players and let you know if your dps is low/medium or high (just lets us knows if very low,low, high,medium.etc)

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Dygz

Well, it's an RPG - so RP isn't really a waste.
It's not a Massively Multiplayer Raiding Game.

Vhaeyne

Dygz wrote: »

Well, it's an RPG - so RP isn't really a waste.
It's not a Massively Multiplayer Raiding Game.

And yet that does not seem to stop a large percentage of these games audiences from playing them like they are a "Massively Multiplayer Raiding Game" in the case of PvEers or a "Massively Multiplayer Rekting Game" in the case of PvPers...

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Well, it's an RPG - so RP isn't really a waste.
It's not a Massively Multiplayer Raiding Game.

And yet that does not seem to stop a large percentage of these games audiences from playing them like they are a "Massively Multiplayer Raiding Game" in the case of PvEers or a "Massively Multiplayer Rekting Game" in the case of PvPers...

I would say each of these groups is significantly larger than the RP community in any given game that has them.

Tragnar

Isn't it the most RP thing to simulate permadeath? That way wipe isnt a time waste, but a proper game over

Noaani

Tragnar wrote: »

Isn't it the most RP thing to simulate permadeath? That way wipe isnt a time waste, but a proper game over

I thought the most RP thing was the invisible letter E at the start of that term.

Tragnar

Dygz wrote: »

Well, it's an RPG - so RP isn't really a waste.
It's not a Massively Multiplayer Raiding Game.

Wait a second - Are you saying that personal RP is a valid reason for wasting time for your group/raid and thus they should not take your personal RP as a reason to exclude you from being in the said group/raid?

Vhaeyne

Noaani wrote: »

I would say each of these groups is significantly larger than the RP community in any given game that has them.

By a landslide.

Tragnar wrote: »

Isn't it the most RP thing to simulate permadeath? That way wipe isnt a time waste, but a proper game over

If you are not dressed as your character IRL while playing permadeath, are you really RPing?

Dygz

Wait a second - Are you saying that personal RP is a valid reason for wasting time for your group/raid and thus they should not take your personal RP as a reason to exclude you from being in the said group/raid?

What is "personal RP"? What types of RP do you perceive?
"Wasting time for your group/raid due to RP" is subjective.
But, yes, in an MMORPG RP should trump meta; not the other way around.

Dygz

Tragnar wrote: »

Isn't it the most RP thing to simulate permadeath? That way wipe isnt a time waste, but a proper game over

I would probably consider that hardcore RP, sure.

Tragnar

Dygz wrote: »

Wait a second - Are you saying that personal RP is a valid reason for wasting time for your group/raid and thus they should not take your personal RP as a reason to exclude you from being in the said group/raid?

What is "personal RP"? What types of RP do you perceive?
"Wasting time for your group/raid due to RP" is subjective.
But, yes, in an MMORPG RP should trump meta; not the other way around.

So you prefer that "following meta" and "creating pugs only to get loot asap" should be banned? There is a reason that RP in games isnt popular in mmos today - and in truth it was never really popular - it existed ofc, but with always a small minority of practitioners.

MMORPG RP is an optional way to play the game - if you try to force encourage it then ppl start leaving the game if you try to force it too hard on them. If you want Ashes to be more like GTA RP, but in fantasy settings then I am sorry, but no information suggests that to be the case - but still you can try to RP like that with your community inside the game, but you just cant make the whole playerbase to be subject to RP > meta

Dygz

So you prefer that "following meta" and "creating pugs only to get loot asap" should be banned?

I'd be ecstatic if we could put those players on separate servers. Sure.

The reason that RP in MMORPGs is not popular in MMORPGs is that gamers who didn't play RPGs jumped into playing MMORPGs.

I don't know what you mean by force it. I don't know what you mean by encourage it.
And I'm not even sure we have the same concept of RP.
I also don't know what you mean GTA RP.

I don't know about making the whole playerbase being subject to RP > Meta...
But, I'm pretty confident the devs can leave combat trackers out if they want to. As in, not implement combat trackers.
Which moves us closer to an RP experience.

rikardp98

Why can't I delete a comment? xD

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

The reason that RP in MMORPGs is not popular in MMORPGs is that gamers who didn't play RPGs jumped into playing MMORPGs.

No it isn't.

I know a lot (like, a LOT) of people that play MMO's and also do tabletop raiding. I've had raid guilds that have tabletop sessions weekly, on days we weren't raiding.

The reason people don't RP in MMO's is because games limit what you can do - heavily.

If you are playing a tabletop game and you decide to - say - flirt with a person working behind a bar, the person running things can make that happen. They can work out if you are successful or not, decide on the reaction various groups of NPC's will have, and through out some consequences of that action your way.

Try that in WoW.

In games, you can only do the things the developers specifically code for. This means player imagination is basically not a thing. Sure, you can have conversations and throw in the occasional prop or emote, but that isn't roleplaying.

Asgerr

Noaani wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

The reason that RP in MMORPGs is not popular in MMORPGs is that gamers who didn't play RPGs jumped into playing MMORPGs.

No it isn't.

I know a lot (like, a LOT) of people that play MMO's and also do tabletop raiding. I've had raid guilds that have tabletop sessions weekly, on days we weren't raiding.

The reason people don't RP in MMO's is because games limit what you can do - heavily.

If you are playing a tabletop game and you decide to - say - flirt with a person working behind a bar, the person running things can make that happen. They can work out if you are successful or not, decide on the reaction various groups of NPC's will have, and through out some consequences of that action your way.

Try that in WoW.

In games, you can only do the things the developers specifically code for. This means player imagination is basically not a thing. Sure, you can have conversations and throw in the occasional prop or emote, but that isn't roleplaying.

To be fair in pen and paper RPGs, some of what you describe as possible is only so if your Game Master allows for it. This is the same, but digital

Noaani

Asgerr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

The reason that RP in MMORPGs is not popular in MMORPGs is that gamers who didn't play RPGs jumped into playing MMORPGs.

No it isn't.

I know a lot (like, a LOT) of people that play MMO's and also do tabletop raiding. I've had raid guilds that have tabletop sessions weekly, on days we weren't raiding.

The reason people don't RP in MMO's is because games limit what you can do - heavily.

If you are playing a tabletop game and you decide to - say - flirt with a person working behind a bar, the person running things can make that happen. They can work out if you are successful or not, decide on the reaction various groups of NPC's will have, and through out some consequences of that action your way.

Try that in WoW.

In games, you can only do the things the developers specifically code for. This means player imagination is basically not a thing. Sure, you can have conversations and throw in the occasional prop or emote, but that isn't roleplaying.

To be fair in pen and paper RPGs, some of what you describe as possible is only so if your Game Master allows for it. This is the same, but digital

For sure, I am assuming a decent person is running things.

If the person is decent, literally anything at all is possible.

In a game, literally only the things that are coded are possible.

Dygz

Noaani wrote: »

I know a lot (like, a LOT) of people that play MMO's and also do tabletop raiding. I've had raid guilds that have tabletop sessions weekly, on days we weren't raiding.

The reason people don't RP in MMO's is because games limit what you can do - heavily.

I am pretty sure what you mean by RP and what I mean by RP is not the same thing.
If my character flirts with another person's character, rather than flirting with the player - that is RP.
Doesn't matter what the result is. The other character may ignore my character - people don't always respond to flirting.
So... I don't agree that games limit what people can do with regards to RP. Games can't really limit my RP.
Gamers can choose to play from a player's perspective rather than the character's perspective.
And, since tons of gamers who did not play RPGs flooded into MMORPGs - those gamers don't care anything at all about character perspective - they just want to win as much as possible as quickly as possible.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I know a lot (like, a LOT) of people that play MMO's and also do tabletop raiding. I've had raid guilds that have tabletop sessions weekly, on days we weren't raiding.

The reason people don't RP in MMO's is because games limit what you can do - heavily.

I am pretty sure what you mean by RP and what I mean by RP is not the same thing.
If my character flirts with another person's character, rather than flirting with the player - that is RP.
Doesn't matter what the result is. The other character may ignore my character - people don't always respond to flirting.
So... I don't agree that games limit what people can do with regards to RP. Games can't really limit my RP.
Gamers can choose to play from a player's perspective rather than the character's perspective.
And, since tons of gamers who did not play RPGs flooded into MMORPGs - those gamers don't care anything at all about character perspective - they just want to win as much as possible as quickly as possible.

I'm not talking about RP between players, or between characters. You can do this kind of RP using IRC or what ever.

I am saying that your RP in an MMO has no interaction at all with that MMO. It is chat with the occasional prop and emote, nothing more. Your RP in an MMO is limited to talk between players, there is no RP discussion between you and NPC's, and there is very limited RP action (other than emotes).

You can imagine what you like in terms of talking to other players/characters, but that isn't really RP - or at least not a good RP experience.

This is why RP in MMO's is not that popular.

Dygz

Noaani wrote: »

I'm not talking about RP between players, or between characters. You can do this kind of RP using IRC or what ever.

I am saying that your RP in an MMO has no interaction at all with that MMO. It is chat with the occasional prop and emote, nothing more. Your RP in an MMO is limited to talk between players, there is no RP discussion between you and NPC's, and there is very limited RP action (other than emotes).

You can imagine what you like in terms of talking to other players/characters, but that isn't really RP - or at least not a good RP experience.

This is why RP in MMO's is not that popular.

RP is just playing the game from the perspective of your character. Anything your character does in the game is RP action.
If I'm using someone's character name as I ask them about what's happening at the castle, that's RP. If I talk to players about their characters' skills without referencing numerical data, that's RP. If I ask for Mage's to come join a battle, that's RP.
If I talk to people about the football game or Start Trek, that's not RP. If I talk to people about their low DPS numbers or their gear score, that's not RP.

What limits RP in MMORPGs these days is that there's nothing to talk about because everyone does the exact same quests and the worlds are pretty much static.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I'm not talking about RP between players, or between characters. You can do this kind of RP using IRC or what ever.

I am saying that your RP in an MMO has no interaction at all with that MMO. It is chat with the occasional prop and emote, nothing more. Your RP in an MMO is limited to talk between players, there is no RP discussion between you and NPC's, and there is very limited RP action (other than emotes).

You can imagine what you like in terms of talking to other players/characters, but that isn't really RP - or at least not a good RP experience.

This is why RP in MMO's is not that popular.

RP is just playing the game from the perspective of your character. Anything your character does in the game is RP action.
If I'm using someone's character name as I ask them about what's happening at the castle, that's RP. If I talk to players about their characters' skills without referencing numerical data, that's RP. If I ask for Mage's to come join a battle, that's RP.
If I talk to people about the football game or Start Trek, that's not RP. If I talk to people about their low DPS numbers or their gear score, that's not RP.

What limits RP in MMORPGs these days is that there's nothing to talk about because everyone does the exact same quests and the worlds are pretty much static.

I'm not arguing what RP is, or how people should RP, I am saying why, in my experience, RP'ing in MMO's isnt popular, even among people that play table top games.

I play table top games, many in my guild do as well. None of us RP in MMO's because the experience is a hollow shell of what it is during a good tabletop session, because in an MMO there is no interconnect between RP and the bulk of the games systems, meaning the RP doesn't matter in regards to any outcome.

Sure, people dont RP during quests or anything, but that is because the outcome of the quest is the same regardless. A good DM with a tabletop game can alter the outcome of events based on RP that happens, which makes that RP far more interesting.

Dygz

Again, I'm pretty sure we disagree on the meaning of RP.
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