maybe not a dps meter but what about this...

What do you guys think about this idea that I just got...? There is a lot of people who do not want dps meters and there is a lot of people who want to improve skill rotation, right? What if we had a trainig zone were there are those Training Dummy which tells you how´s doing dps doing compare to other players? if ya want to see how you are actually doing so you must go to the training zone and check it out, these Trainig Dummy could copilate all the info from others players and let you know if your dps is low/medium or high (just lets us knows if very low,low, high,medium.etc)

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Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Again, I'm pretty sure we disagree on the meaning of RP.
DEUCES

You can think it is what ever you want to think it is.

I dont care, and that has nothing at all to do with what I am saying.

I mean, you RP in an MMO, and I am talking about why many people that RP in other genres dont RP on MMO's, so obviously your opinion is going to be different to what I am talking about.

Dygz

That's not what I mean.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

That's not what I mean.

I dont really care what you mean.

The people that I am talking about that RP in other genres but not in MMO's are not you. They are the people I am talking about (and 'they' include me).

Since I am talking about their perspective, your perspective doesn't mean shit.

Your perspective isnt going to change their perspective, or make them want to RP in a game genre that really doesn't support it from their perspective.

Dygz

I know you don't care what I mean. Just as you don't care about what I mean.
But, you replied to my post when you didn't understand what I meant, so any response to what I've said is meaningless.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

I know you don't care what I mean. Just as you don't care about what I mean.
But, you replied to my post when you didn't understand what I meant, so any response to what I've said is meaningless.

I gave everyone my observations on why this genre has a LOT of people that play tabletop games, but has very few people that RP in the game.

Your opinion of what RP is has no bearing on that observation.

Stop thinking it is all about you.

Tragnar

Dygz wrote: »

I know you don't care what I mean. Just as you don't care about what I mean.
But, you replied to my post when you didn't understand what I meant, so any response to what I've said is meaningless.

Since I don't know where you might have posted your manifesto about MMO RP then I have just limited understanding of your perception on MMO RP.

So I'll go with non disputable facts only.
- RP in MMO has consequences only for player to player relations
- RP doesn't have gameplay consequences unless specifically coded for (usually just a dialog options that only influence the dialog that the NPC has)
- RP as a way to play believable character with suitable backstory that "could" fit into the game's lore is historically only a negative experience for other players in situations where good gameplay matters. This means that such RP is either ignored or looked upon as curiosity in places where gameplay DOESNT matter. The only time that such RP is accepted and encouraged is only with players that on some scale practice this RP themselves

Noaani

Tragnar wrote: »

So I'll go with non disputable facts only.
- RP in MMO has consequences only for player to player relations
- RP doesn't have gameplay consequences unless specifically coded for (usually just a dialog options that only influence the dialog that the NPC has)

While I agree with all of your post here, these two points are exactly that I have been saying are the reason many people that do enjoy tabletop RPG's don't RP in MMO's.

Even when just spending time around town or what ever.

One other point that a friend made to me just a few hours ago is that when playing an online game, you are often presented with people that are interesting in their own right, and talking to them as people is far more enjoyable and rewarding that trying to talk to them as characters.

This may not apply to people that don't play well with others though - I don't know. I can see the possibility that some people would prefer to hide behind a character persona and only interact with other character personas.

rikardp98

Dygz wrote: »

RP is just playing the game from the perspective of your character. Anything your character does in the game is RP action.
If I'm using someone's character name as I ask them about what's happening at the castle, that's RP. If I talk to players about their characters' skills without referencing numerical data, that's RP. If I ask for Mage's to come join a battle, that's RP.
If I talk to people about the football game or Start Trek, that's not RP. If I talk to people about their low DPS numbers or their gear score, that's not RP.

What limits RP in MMORPGs these days is that there's nothing to talk about because everyone does the exact same quests and the worlds are pretty much static.

How is talking about your characters gear and in-game damage not RP? Just like people in real life people talk about their score number in ice hockey or their hunting equipment, people in fantasy world would 100% talk about gear and how many difficult animals and bosses they have killed.

The real life equivalent of high end raiding is doing sports on a top end level. Athletes put their heart and soul in to their sport and try and improve every day, with meters and other equipment to measure their current strength. I feel like raiders have the same mentality to raids and their performance. They want to be the best at raiding, while also improving their performance as much as they can, just like real life athletes.

So this is not a RP problem, it's a you problem. You do not like the fact that there is hard proof that someone else is much better than you, and that is fine. Some people wants to be the best in raids, someone wants to be the best pvper, and some just play the game for fun. Find your place and let others play the game how they like to play it.

Ironhammer

It's pretty obvious those arguing for DPS meters are avid WoW players as DPS meters only exist in WoW and TESO. Most MMORPGs opt out of add ons due to the unfair advantages they give players, it's a WoW/Theme park mindset that makes people think they are required.

Also this is not a game with 30+ skills, complex rotations won't be needed, staying alive will be a bigger focus even as a dps, ect. DPS meters cause the e-sportsification of MMORPGs and take the players attention away from the loot and fun of combat to focus on min/maxing their damage.

Over all it's best to leave DPS meters out of MMORPGs, this isn't going to be like WoW raiding, cut throat DPS will not be required it's going to be about who's alive and who's not. If you need to min/max in your MMORPG i would suggest just staying with WoW as I imagine you're quite happy with the the E-sports environment that it has created.

Noaani

Ironhammer wrote: »

It's pretty obvious those arguing for DPS meters are avid WoW players as DPS meters only exist in WoW and TESO.

Well that is a load of crap.

Combat trackers existed in MMO's before WoW was released.

Learn what you are saying before you say it.

Ironhammer

Noaani wrote: »

Ironhammer wrote: »

It's pretty obvious those arguing for DPS meters are avid WoW players as DPS meters only exist in WoW and TESO.

Well that is a load of crap.

Combat trackers existed in MMO's before WoW was released.

Learn what you are saying before you say it.

Lol you're just making shit up, eh?

Nagash

Ironhammer wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Ironhammer wrote: »

It's pretty obvious those arguing for DPS meters are avid WoW players as DPS meters only exist in WoW and TESO.

Well that is a load of crap.

Combat trackers existed in MMO's before WoW was released.

Learn what you are saying before you say it.

Lol you're just making shit up, eh?

You do know there are many MMOs before WoW right? WoW is not the center of the MMO world

Noaani

Ironhammer wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Ironhammer wrote: »

It's pretty obvious those arguing for DPS meters are avid WoW players as DPS meters only exist in WoW and TESO.

Well that is a load of crap.

Combat trackers existed in MMO's before WoW was released.

Learn what you are saying before you say it.

Lol you're just making shit up, eh?

No, I was using combat trackers well before WoW came out.

Most of the combat trackers from back then are no longer active, but since you also said that combat trackers only exist for WoW and ESO, this in itself just proves you are full of shit.

Ironhammer

No, I was using combat trackers well before WoW came out.

Keep pulling shit out of your ass man. It'll get you some where. UO, Darkfall, Runescape, PW, WHO, MO1&2. Most legit MMORPGs do not have meters. Looking at logs after the fact isn't the same and not something i have a problem with if the game keeps logs that can be pulled later.

Nagash

Ironhammer wrote: »

No, I was using combat trackers well before WoW came out.

Keep pulling shit out of your ass man. It'll get you some where. UO, Darkfall, Runescape, PW, WHO, MO1&2. Most legit MMORPGs do not have meters. Looking at logs after the fact isn't the same and not something i have a problem with if the game keeps logs that can be pulled later.

I mean I used them in lineage 2 and that game came out before World of Warcraft

Tragnar

Ironhammer wrote: »

It's pretty obvious those arguing for DPS meters are avid WoW players as DPS meters only exist in WoW and TESO. Most MMORPGs opt out of add ons due to the unfair advantages they give players, it's a WoW/Theme park mindset that makes people think they are required.

Also this is not a game with 30+ skills, complex rotations won't be needed, staying alive will be a bigger focus even as a dps, ect. DPS meters cause the e-sportsification of MMORPGs and take the players attention away from the loot and fun of combat to focus on min/maxing their damage.

Over all it's best to leave DPS meters out of MMORPGs, this isn't going to be like WoW raiding, cut throat DPS will not be required it's going to be about who's alive and who's not. If you need to min/max in your MMORPG i would suggest just staying with WoW as I imagine you're quite happy with the the E-sports environment that it has created.

My guess is that you are exWoW player that got fed up with bs changes to wow and quit and you tried a few other MMOs, but are most likely just waiting on a truly big and popular MMO

Nagash

Tragnar wrote: »

Ironhammer wrote: »

It's pretty obvious those arguing for DPS meters are avid WoW players as DPS meters only exist in WoW and TESO. Most MMORPGs opt out of add ons due to the unfair advantages they give players, it's a WoW/Theme park mindset that makes people think they are required.

Also this is not a game with 30+ skills, complex rotations won't be needed, staying alive will be a bigger focus even as a dps, ect. DPS meters cause the e-sportsification of MMORPGs and take the players attention away from the loot and fun of combat to focus on min/maxing their damage.

Over all it's best to leave DPS meters out of MMORPGs, this isn't going to be like WoW raiding, cut throat DPS will not be required it's going to be about who's alive and who's not. If you need to min/max in your MMORPG i would suggest just staying with WoW as I imagine you're quite happy with the the E-sports environment that it has created.

My guess is that you are exWoW player that got fed up with bs changes to wow and quit and you tried a few other MMOs, but are most likely just waiting on a truly big and popular MMO

I mean he only joined ashes today

Ironhammer

My guess is that you are exWoW player that got fed up with bs changes to wow and quit and you tried a few other MMOs, but are most likely just waiting on a truly big and popular MMO

I stopped playing WoW in MoP, i've been playing sandbox MMORPGs ever sense. But i was more into Darkfall when darkfall was running.

Over all my best memories come from Darkfall, that was the highlight of my gaming experiences. I've seen the direction WoW has gone and over the years and feel bad for those who remain, but most of my anger about WoW comes from how it's trained players to think about MMORPGs. Everything gets viewed through WoW lens when there's so many other good MMOs that exist and have existed, currently I play Albion which I enjoy but I would rather something that isn't isometric.

Noaani

Ironhammer wrote: »

Keep pulling shit out of your ass man.

Ironhammer wrote: »

DPS meters only exist in WoW and TESO.

Noaani wrote: »

this

I don't feel any need to add to this.

Ironhammer

I don't feel any need to add to this.

Thank god.

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