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Proximity Chat: a terrible idea that is really worth considering

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Comments

  • mobtekmobtek Member, Founder, Kickstarter
    I really like proximity chat. One of the best interactions I've had was chatting with a guy at a train station in Star Citizen (when prox vc was working) and we then met up with his mates (another bunch of aussies) and had a blast running about in vehicles on Daymar. Before we knew it 6 hours had passed everyone had a blast.
    My point being prox vc, opens up another dimension to a game and interaction with other players and playing with people you might not ever interact with. Being a former radio on-air jock prolly helps and I'm not shy.
  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Proximity voice chat been tried before in mmos and most players don't use it and turn it off. I guess I am old school in that I find voice chat in game immersion breaking for me. This is a mmorpg not Day Z or Fortnight.
  • SchmukySchmuky Member
    mobtek wrote: »
    I really like proximity chat. One of the best interactions I've had was chatting with a guy at a train station in Star Citizen (when prox vc was working) and we then met up with his mates (another bunch of aussies) and had a blast running about in vehicles on Daymar. Before we knew it 6 hours had passed everyone had a blast.
    My point being prox vc, opens up another dimension to a game and interaction with other players and playing with people you might not ever interact with. Being a former radio on-air jock prolly helps and I'm not shy.

    Right, so a radio jock.... had the pleasure to play with a few others awhile back and the hype they could create was crazy. We were playing Firefall i believe and before every raid they would get us pumped. Imagine doing that before a siege
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  • SchmukySchmuky Member
    Proximity voice chat been tried before in mmos and most players don't use it and turn it off. I guess I am old school in that I find voice chat in game immersion breaking for me. This is a mmorpg not Day Z or Fortnight.

    Counter argument: unless you play completely solo, you will need to use voice, either in game or discord. As a thing, i would not want to raid or even party with someone that dosen't use voice. You wound never use it, i would use as much as i can. So what do we do?
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  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I had a female assassin player that refused to used voice comms. She followed any orders I gave her though. She was the best assassin in my guild at the time. I never berated her for not wanting to speak. She had been harassed by male players before for being the solo woman in a raid group. Sometimes, people want to break free of the problems and just play the game.
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  • ThexBlackxKnightThexBlackxKnight Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Schmuky wrote: »
    Proximity voice chat been tried before in mmos and most players don't use it and turn it off. I guess I am old school in that I find voice chat in game immersion breaking for me. This is a mmorpg not Day Z or Fortnight.

    Counter argument: unless you play completely solo, you will need to use voice, either in game or discord. As a thing, i would not want to raid or even party with someone that dosen't use voice. You wound never use it, i would use as much as i can. So what do we do?

    People using discord with friends or a guild is completely different then wanting to talk to some random person with proximity voice. Most of the time proximity voice chat is used to troll others.
  • SchmukySchmuky Member
    Neurath wrote: »
    I had a female assassin player that refused to used voice comms. She followed any orders I gave her though. She was the best assassin in my guild at the time. I never berated her for not wanting to speak. She had been harassed by male players before for being the solo woman in a raid group. Sometimes, people want to break free of the problems and just play the game.

    yes, that is indeed a valid argument. I have been told the really shitty way in which assholes have treated others, especially women in gaming and unfortunately i don't think we are past it, not even close. The idea is not to force anyone to use the chat, its an option that they would have. I don't know the details, of course, but if someone in my guild did shit like they, they would would be kick instantly, mid-fucking-raid if I can. So its up the guild to make sure that all members are treated fair. But if she wasen't part of voice, how did you give orders? Stop and type it?

    Now, in non-guild content, this would indeed be way harder than "kick from guild and move on".... Frankly i dont have an answer... I've had my share part of toxic bs because of my accent (east europe) which is not the same, but i understand not wanting to deal with it and just mute yourself. But i never did, just moved from group to group until i found mature players. Not ideal, but its the only way i found to do it.

    I legit sat here, looking at the screen for 10 min, trying to imagine a way for this to not happen and I got nothing more than "mute assholes"

    What I do want to say again is that this would supplementary to text and discord, another way for player interaction that I realize that many players will opt out as soon as they enter the game. But I still believe that a careful implementation will make it worth it. Don't know what else to say
    Schmuky wrote: »
    Proximity voice chat been tried before in mmos and most players don't use it and turn it off. I guess I am old school in that I find voice chat in game immersion breaking for me. This is a mmorpg not Day Z or Fortnight.

    Counter argument: unless you play completely solo, you will need to use voice, either in game or discord. As a thing, i would not want to raid or even party with someone that dosen't use voice. You wound never use it, i would use as much as i can. So what do we do?

    People using discord with friends or a guild is completely different then wanting to talk to some random person with proximity voice. Most of the time proximity voice chat is used to troll others.

    Maybe thats how you would use it, i've given examples of how and when I think it could be amazing in previous post. And if you think all of them are bs, i don't know what to say
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  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I can't go into too much detail in case we meet again but the woman in question would be on Ventrilo but she would type instead of speak. I often put her on the boss alongside me as the tank for the fight durations so orders weren't too frequent overall but she would listen to my voice comms to her and the rest of the raid throughout the encounters.
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  • SchmukySchmuky Member
    Neurath wrote: »
    I can't go into too much detail in case we meet again but the woman in question would be on Ventrilo but she would type instead of speak. I often put her on the boss alongside me as the tank for the fight durations so orders weren't too frequent overall but she would listen to my voice comms to her and the rest of the raid throughout the encounters.

    So what i am getting here is that she was still in voice with everyone, but chose not to speak. Proximity can account for this. You can listen but you respond in chat. Still better than just chat.
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  • SubZSubZ Member
    Just make the proximity of the voice chat really small and since there is collision there won't be 100s of people on top of each other talking on voice. What's wrong with that?

  • If you can mute anyone you want in the game. Then discord would not really be needed if the game offered all of the same features. Offering the option solely in game ensures that everyone is on the same communication level and that no one is at a communications disadvantage. You can also abuse discord since it's not an in game system. Banning from a discord puts people at an inherent disadvantage and it does not have to be for any reason at all. Whereas if you were muted in the game it could only be because you were acting like a moron with it.

    Having it in the game without discord increases the social aspect of the game without outliars that can potentially ruin it. So if you are a fan of being responsible for what you say on a server then only having VC in game encourages this even more. While Discord has inner circle issues. People aren't going to ban their friends no matter how stupid the shit is they say. So equal grounds.
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  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited May 2021
    PVC should be in Ashes, and franky, all mmos going foward.

    WHY: 1
    Because this isn't the 1990s early 2000's people. With the explosion of the internet heading into the turn of the 21st century and explosion of in game/out of game social squares, online chat rooms were booming and filling all corners of the internet. We need to advance like society always does and start doing new things to innovate.

    WHY: 2
    The second reason is that RP is a major part of mmos and regardless of whether you solely pvp/pve players want to admit it, denying a SWATH of the mmo community the joy and experience of RPing in ashes with regards to the mayoral system, owning a tavern and RPing as a bar keep, and so many other facets of life in Ashes would turn away and only hurt Ashes in the long run. Imagine owning your own tavern and serving your famous mead (alcohol) and meat pies with a hot roll and trying to RP with typing to the patrons that come in... :neutral: instead of PVC as they are all sitting on the wooden stool chairs at the bar, and we partake in local town gossip, or discuss the town's bill board of the new wanted monster or player killer bounty reward that was posted.

    WHY: 3
    I played New worlds alpha in August last year and they have PVC, and it is really enjoyable to talk with people and share in information with vc. As someone stated earlier, when you play solo for a while and just pass people without saying a word, or join a random 5 man dungeon, and do the entire dungeon from start to finish without saying a single word to each other (world of warcraft), you tend to start to feel like even the players are random npcs that have a programmed role and are only there to comply and get me to a certain point until I feel like logging off.

    WHY: 4
    I think it should be incorporated in as well because Asmongold, not saying he is all knowing/seeing, but he even agrees after playing new world last year in August that all mmos should have VC going forward into the 2020s and 2030s... Also Grand Theft Auto RP servers is one of the biggest things, and it wouldn't be nearly as big if people had to RP with typing.

    CONCLUSION
    I want to wrap up by saying that I hear you all, the naysayers, who would rather shun or reject an entire community because they may hear someone's music, or bad mic, or troll... :neutral: but in all honesty the benefits out way the bad, especially in the long run. I have an entire RP guild from Final Fantasy that are planning on joining Ashes solely for the RP and limitless potential to play as someone we aren't in real life, own a tavern, shop, or hotel. One of my guildies would like to run for mayor in the scientific node and actually hold elections with a debate in town square with the whole spectacle and whatnot. To deny people this joy and long lasting memories because YOU don't want to hear it, simple.... mute me.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    This thread seems to be getting confused between voice chat and proximity voice chat.

    The game is confirmed to have voice chat built in for group, raid and guild, so this is not up for debate. Voice chat is in.

    However, this thread is about proximity voice chat, not voice chat.

    I find it interesting that none of the games the OP has talked about have been MMORPG's. They have all been other forms of multiplayer games.

    Since 95% of the posters on these forums are MMO veterans, they are going to have a very, very different view of things compared to someone that is a multiplayer veteran, as opposed to an MMO veteran.

    Very few MMO veterans would think it is a good idea to have proximity based voice chat in an MMO. Other forms of voice chat (the ones that Ashes is confirmed to have) are enough of a hot topic among some people.

    Any situation in which a game adds in voice chat creates an expectation that players will interact with you via that voice chat. If a game has voice chat for groups, guilds and raids, it will be the expectation that it is used (assuming it has an acceptable level of functionality).

    Add proximity to that, even if players are able to opt out of using it, others still have that expectation that since it is a part of the game, people should be using it. All of a sudden you have created a situation that many MMO players (specifically many female MMO players) simply will not put themselves in.

    Basically, proximity voice chat will cost subscriptions for any MMO with it.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2021
    Yuyukoyay wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind banning the use of out of game chat programs
    Fun fact, according to the current EULA, DIscord is not allowed to be used.
    The relavent quote
    You may not use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Platform, Services, or in-Game experience
    The game allows voice chat with people in your group, guild or raid, while discord allows voice chat with non-guild allies.

    It also does many other things, but just this one aspect is clearly a modification to the in-Game experience.

    So, taking the above clause from this games EULA and removing the irrelevent parts, we have this.
    You may not use ...any ... unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the ... in-Game experience
    Until Intrepid specifically autherise the use of Discord, it is technically against the EULA to use.
  • Well.... I'm a bit torn here.
    On the one hand I like the idea of naturally talking to someone near me. That adds to immersion and I think it's a good thing in that aspect...

    But it also means I'll hear them playing Lady Gaga or Tailor swift when their blaring that IRL and I run past, and that there's going to be cat calling and taunting during PVP.

    IDK that there's really a great option to be had here.
    If it's toggleable and I have it off then I won't know if someone nearby is trying to talk to me or not. If I leave it on then I'm subject to curses and taunting by players and, honestly I don't really want players knowing my daughter is a young girl when she's playing due to her voice.

    Probably best to just not include it.
  • Why not, instead of implementing it directly in the game, make a teamspeak plugin (I think this exists for GTA RP) so that people from e.g. the same node, if they want to, just have to download it, put it in a TS server and can interact? That way only a group of people who really want to play with proximity chat can use it, if a player is Trolling he can be kicked, and the game doesn't have to manage proximity chat. I'm sure there are problems with this solution, but why not?
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    If I recall correctly, when I was playing New World, it had proximity chat.
    It was quite useful to actually hear someone who was not smart enough to mute themselves leading up to pvp.. and equally enjoyable to hear and interesting converstation going on softly in the distance and get closer and join.

    But any proximity chat always needs a quick mute for either global and/or individual as there is always someone that says, plays things that are better off not heard!
  • SchmukySchmuky Member
    I looked it up now and New World will have proximity chat, i remember i even saw it on some stream last year. So let's just wait and see what the reaction is from that. If it is good, they can add in Ashes, if not, no.
    I honestly don't know if it will work how i imagine it will (in Ashes), but i don't want the conversation to end at "its been shit in other games, no need to have it"
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  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    One of the earlier testing I had proximity chat enabled by accident, which is what described.

    Was a whole different experience of being killed indiscriminately as a newbie by a high level player when your actually able to stand and verbally chat about it! Quite a game changer and quite fun!

    Later testing with a different test update, I was not able to find how to get it to work, so not sure if it was the update, my pc or something else.
  • JoemarJoemar Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I believe that VC is not a need in today's video games, with programs such as discord becoming such a daily thing many gamers use. This is a hard pass for me as I believe that text also helps RP as you can decide the voice of the person talking in your head; my voice wouldn't match a dwarf. Good idea on first thought, but it turns into toxicity and ruins many RP moments in practice.
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  • ShabobShabob Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I think VPC could be fine, but only if it has the ability to be moderated. I don't want the trolls have a free pass to do troll things.
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  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited May 2021
    Noaani wrote: »
    T

    Very few MMO veterans would think it is a good idea to have proximity based voice chat in an MMO. Other forms of voice chat (the ones that Ashes is confirmed to have) are enough of a hot topic among some people.

    Add proximity to that, even if players are able to opt out of using it, others still have that expectation that since it is a part of the game, people should be using it. All of a sudden you have created a situation that many MMO players (specifically many female MMO players) simply will not put themselves in.

    Basically, proximity voice chat will cost subscriptions for any MMO with it.

    Unless you have hard data on "Very few MMO veterans would think it is a good idea to have proximity based voice chat in an MMO" then useless argument against it.

    "Add proximity to that, even if players are able to opt out of using it, others still have that expectation that since it is a part of the game, people should be using it."

    Also not true, there is pvp, crafting, RP, treasure hunting, sea content... etc. We are not monoliths and one sided thinkers. I can decide I don't want to use/play something just because it's in the game, and you can expect other people as rational self-governing adults to also not expect the same. Where not mindless frogs.


    Blackford wrote: »
    Well.... I'm a bit torn here.

    But it also means I'll hear them playing Lady Gaga or Tailor swift when their blaring that IRL and I run past, and that there's going to be cat calling and taunting during PVP.


    If it's toggleable and I have it off then I won't know if someone nearby is trying to talk to me or not. If I leave it on then I'm subject to curses and taunting by players and, honestly I don't really want players knowing my daughter is a young girl when she's playing due to her voice.

    Probably best to just not include it.

    "But it also means I'll hear them playing Lady Gaga or Tailor swift when their blaring that IRL and I run past, and that there's going to be cat calling and taunting during PVP."
    Then turn it off in setting when you make your character

    "If it's toggleable and I have it off then I won't know if someone nearby is trying to talk to me or not."

    Chat box is still an option if they want to reach/notify you if you have it off...

    "If I leave it on then I'm subject to curses and taunting by players and, honestly I don't really want players knowing my daughter is a young girl when she's playing due to her voice."

    This is not some rolblox or minecraft or maple story. You have options. Report, mute, kill them. that easy. As for your daughter playing isn't this like R rated or M for mature rating, especially if there is boob sliders. Simple fix don't give her a mic to talk to people online if people online are scary and big and bad. If she doesn't know better or mature enough, then maybe she shouldn't be online.

    I'll be dammed if I can't RP PVC because your daughter won't stop giving out personal information to gamers online HECK take away her social media too!
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Unless you have hard data on "Very few MMO veterans would think it is a good idea to have proximity based voice chat in an MMO" then useless argument against it.
    Look at this thread.

    The bulk of people with MMO experience are against it.

    The bulk of people for it are people with experience in other online games.

    You dont need hard data on observable truths.

    "Add proximity to that, even if players are able to opt out of using it, others still have that expectation that since it is a part of the game, people should be using it."

    Also not true, there is pvp, crafting, RP, treasure hunting, sea content... etc. We are not monoliths and one sided thinkers. I can decide I don't want to use/play something just because it's in the game, and you can expect other people as rational self-governing adults to also not expect the same. Where not mindless frogs.
    You can decide what ever you want.

    What you cant decide is how others will react to your decisions.

    Not replying to someone that says hello as you walk past is - to many people - as rude as not replying to someone that says hello when you walk past in real life.

    Proximity chat being on or off is not a factor to these people - they said hello, you didnt reply. As such, people have the option of being perceived as rude, or having proximity on.

    This doesnt bother me, I am quite happy for people to think I'm being rude. However, it does bother many people.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Noaani wrote: »
    Unless you have hard data on "Very few MMO veterans would think it is a good idea to have proximity based voice chat in an MMO" then useless argument against it.
    Look at this thread.

    The bulk of people with MMO experience are against it.

    The bulk of people for it are people with experience in other online games.

    You dont need hard data on observable truths.

    "Add proximity to that, even if players are able to opt out of using it, others still have that expectation that since it is a part of the game, people should be using it."

    Also not true, there is pvp, crafting, RP, treasure hunting, sea content... etc. We are not monoliths and one sided thinkers. I can decide I don't want to use/play something just because it's in the game, and you can expect other people as rational self-governing adults to also not expect the same. Where not mindless frogs.
    You can decide what ever you want.

    What you cant decide is how others will react to your decisions.

    Not replying to someone that says hello as you walk past is - to many people - as rude as not replying to someone that says hello when you walk past in real life.

    Proximity chat being on or off is not a factor to these people - they said hello, you didnt reply. As such, people have the option of being perceived as rude, or having proximity on.

    This doesnt bother me, I am quite happy for people to think I'm being rude. However, it does bother many people.

    "Not replying to someone that says hello as you walk past is - to many people - as rude as not replying to someone that says hello when you walk past in real life."
    Your joking if you believe someone not saying hi in a video game is the equivalent of someone not saying hi in real life. For fuck sake people literally join dudgeon groups (ya 'know the thing that requires teamwork and cooperation to make it out alive in one piece). If we are equating that to real life then people would be dead in an instant because even now in mmos people join random groups, which depend on each other to stay alive and they don't say diddlysquat to each other from start to finish. Who cares what some random online thinks because they didn't get a hello back, WELCOME TO THE INTERNET BUDDY, PLEAS DON'T JOIN TWITTER.

    "The bulk of people with MMO experience are against it.
    The bulk of people for it are people with experience in other online games."
    I'm not even going to address this because clearly you have not gone to college and taken statistics. Once you get your masters in financing/accounting come holla at me.


  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Trying to make this short and sweet:

    -PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    -Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    -Discord will be required by all serious guilds.
    -PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    -PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    -PVC does not work in open world PVP.
    -PVC does not work in raids.
    -PVC is annoying in crowded towns.
    -Noaani is right, MMO Veterans do not want PVC.
    -The game is not even first person.
    -The game is not focused on immersion.
    -This is not XBOX live.

    Needless to say I am pretty against PVC in MMORPGs.
    Most of these points apply to regular VC as well.

    Cheers.
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    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Trying to make this short and sweet:

    -PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    -Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    -Discord will be required by all serious guilds.
    -PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    -PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    -PVC does not work in open world PVP.
    -PVC does not work in raids.
    -PVC is annoying in crowded towns.
    -Noaani is right, MMO Veterans do not want PVC.
    -The game is not even first person.
    -The game is not focused on immersion.
    -This is not XBOX live.

    Needless to say I am pretty against PVC in MMORPGs.
    Most of these points apply to regular VC as well.

    Cheers.

    I have little else to add except - I agree with Vhaeyne's List.
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  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited May 2021
    Neurath wrote: »
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Trying to make this short and sweet:

    -PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    -Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    -Discord will be required by all serious guilds.
    -PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    -PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    -PVC does not work in open world PVP.
    -PVC does not work in raids.
    -PVC is annoying in crowded towns.
    -Noaani is right, MMO Veterans do not want PVC.
    -The game is not even first person.
    -The game is not focused on immersion.
    -This is not XBOX live.

    Needless to say I am pretty against PVC in MMORPGs.
    Most of these points apply to regular VC as well.

    Cheers.

    I have little else to add except - I agree with Vhaeyne's List.

    Well his points are garbage
    PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    1. okay and... not every facet of the games is going to be for you
    Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    2. Okay, I'm not logging into discord to talk to my random bar patrons for quick RP (discord main for organized group content.)
    Discord will be required by all serious guilds.
    3. Okay that's fine. PVC and Discord for guild wars is understandable and unrelated.
    PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    4. Not your call to make, Steven will be the say on that, not some rando who bought an alpha pack in 2020.
    -PVC does not work in open world PVP.
    5. Okay that's fine, most people who will use PVC and RP aren't pvpers anyway. Not everything is about you and your playstyle.
    -PVC does not work in raids.
    6. Okay, use discord for that, makes perfect sense I agree. Not PVC. However I would counter and say if you are raiding and 80% of the raids are open world. I would say it would be a plus to have PVC if another raid group shows up, because you can't just invite an entire raid group on the final dragon boss, you would need to communicate with their leader and fast to defuse the situation.
    -PVC is annoying in crowded towns.
    7. Okay, like I have said for the umpteenth time, go to settings and turn it off, just like you would music, or FX setting for animations, not hard.
    Noaani is right, MMO Veterans do not want PVC.
    8. Number please
    The game is not even first person.
    9. :neutral: Okay...
    The game is not focused on immersion.
    10. yeah this is the kind of answer I would expect from a person who bought alpha in 2020. Go play WOW.
    -This is not XBOX live.
    11. :neutral: Okay...
  • ShoelidShoelid Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Trying to make this short and sweet:

    -PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    -Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    -Discord will be required by all serious guilds.
    -PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    -PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    -PVC does not work in open world PVP.
    -PVC does not work in raids.
    -PVC is annoying in crowded towns.
    -Noaani is right, MMO Veterans do not want PVC.
    -The game is not even first person.
    -The game is not focused on immersion.
    -This is not XBOX live.

    Needless to say I am pretty against PVC in MMORPGs.
    Most of these points apply to regular VC as well.

    Cheers.

    all good points but have you considered how cool it would be to enter a siege have 500 people yelling into your headphones all at once?
  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Trying to make this short and sweet:

    -PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    -Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    -Discord will be required by all serious guilds.
    -PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    -PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    -PVC does not work in open world PVP.
    -PVC does not work in raids.
    -PVC is annoying in crowded towns.
    -Noaani is right, MMO Veterans do not want PVC.
    -The game is not even first person.
    -The game is not focused on immersion.
    -This is not XBOX live.

    Needless to say I am pretty against PVC in MMORPGs.
    Most of these points apply to regular VC as well.

    Cheers.

    I have little else to add except - I agree with Vhaeyne's List.

    Well his points are garbage
    PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    1. okay and... not every facet of the games is going to be for you
    Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    2. Okay, I'm not logging into discord to talk to my random bar patrons for quick RP (discord main for organized group content.)
    Discord will be required by all serious guilds.
    3. Okay that's fine. PVC and Discord for guild wars is understandable and unrelated.
    PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    4. Not your call to make, Steven will be the say on that, not some rando who bought an alpha pack in 2020.
    -PVC does not work in open world PVP.
    5. Okay that's fine, most people who will use PVC and RP aren't pvpers anyway. Not everything is about you and your playstyle.
    -PVC does not work in raids.
    6. Okay, use discord for that, makes perfect sense I agree. Not PVC. However I would counter and say if you are raiding and 80% of the raids are open world. I would say it would be a plus to have PVC if another raid group shows up, because you can't just invite an entire raid group on the final dragon boss, you would need to communicate with their leader and fast to defuse the situation.
    -PVC is annoying in crowded towns.
    7. Okay, like I have said for the umpteenth time, go to settings and turn it off, just like you would music, or FX setting for animations, not hard.
    Noaani is right, MMO Veterans do not want PVC.
    8. Number please
    The game is not even first person.
    9. :neutral: Okay...
    The game is not focused on immersion.
    10. yeah this is the kind of answer I would expect from a person who bought alpha in 2020. Go play WOW.
    -This is not XBOX live.
    11. :neutral: Okay...

    Angelic by name, not Angelic by nature :pensive:
    2a3b8ichz0pd.gif
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Neurath wrote: »
    Neurath wrote: »
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Trying to make this short and sweet:

    -PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    -Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    -Discord will be required by all serious guilds.
    -PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    -PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    -PVC does not work in open world PVP.
    -PVC does not work in raids.
    -PVC is annoying in crowded towns.
    -Noaani is right, MMO Veterans do not want PVC.
    -The game is not even first person.
    -The game is not focused on immersion.
    -This is not XBOX live.

    Needless to say I am pretty against PVC in MMORPGs.
    Most of these points apply to regular VC as well.

    Cheers.

    I have little else to add except - I agree with Vhaeyne's List.

    Well his points are garbage
    PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    1. okay and... not every facet of the games is going to be for you
    Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    2. Okay, I'm not logging into discord to talk to my random bar patrons for quick RP (discord main for organized group content.)
    Discord will be required by all serious guilds.
    3. Okay that's fine. PVC and Discord for guild wars is understandable and unrelated.
    PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    4. Not your call to make, Steven will be the say on that, not some rando who bought an alpha pack in 2020.
    -PVC does not work in open world PVP.
    5. Okay that's fine, most people who will use PVC and RP aren't pvpers anyway. Not everything is about you and your playstyle.
    -PVC does not work in raids.
    6. Okay, use discord for that, makes perfect sense I agree. Not PVC. However I would counter and say if you are raiding and 80% of the raids are open world. I would say it would be a plus to have PVC if another raid group shows up, because you can't just invite an entire raid group on the final dragon boss, you would need to communicate with their leader and fast to defuse the situation.
    -PVC is annoying in crowded towns.
    7. Okay, like I have said for the umpteenth time, go to settings and turn it off, just like you would music, or FX setting for animations, not hard.
    Noaani is right, MMO Veterans do not want PVC.
    8. Number please
    The game is not even first person.
    9. :neutral: Okay...
    The game is not focused on immersion.
    10. yeah this is the kind of answer I would expect from a person who bought alpha in 2020. Go play WOW.
    -This is not XBOX live.
    11. :neutral: Okay...

    Angelic by name, not Angelic by nature :pensive:

    Yeah, just get annoyed with people who think what they think is best for everyone. You seem like these conservatives I debate on a regular who think the public option or M4A are communistic manifestos and don't want it but think everyone should be forced to participate in our current price-gouging for profit healthcare system because "the majority of mmo veteran" (replace with private insurance plans) are what they are use to and don't want to expand or change. Don't want to progress, don't want to include or be inclusive to everyone. That what I get from you. A selfish person who would rather have a segment of the population struggle (not enjoy their RP with PVC) than adapt and change with the times, even given with the option for you to stay the same, or what you're use to by simply turning it off. "NOOOO, I don't want it in the game at all because I'm not used to it, and I'm a real gamer, and we real gamers get what we want, regardless of what other people are saying they would enjoy as their main aspect of the game"
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