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Proximity Chat: a terrible idea that it really worth considering

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Comments

  • NeurathNeurath Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I am a Roleplayer at heart and often used to play RP-PvP Servers. I would not benefit from Proximity chat because I'd rather stare at a female toon than a male toon, and, my female toon would sound male (I am male) on proximity chat. I don't mind in Groups/Raids or in my Guild, but, to random people I prefer kicking their asses in PvP with a female toon and have them believe I'm a female. It has been my preferred style for nigh on 20 years and I don't plan to change for 'the times'.

    I would disable proximity chat and many more like me would also disable proximity chat. You want numbers or seem to want numbers, but, you are the one asking for Proximity Chat so you should provide the numbers on how many people will use proximity chat in a MMORPG. We do not have to keep repeating our dislike for Proximity Chat. I had enough of Proximity Chat on Rust.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @angelicshiya

    Seeing a lot of: "Okay, that's fine." for most of my points.

    I'll address your responses that stand out.
    PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    1. okay and... not every facet of the games is going to be for you
    Part of the reason I backed, and support Ashes is the fact that PVC is not a facet of the game. If it were, I would seriously reconsider how much time and energy I am willing to spend on Ashes.

    I play Mortal Online 2 currently, and the reliance on PVC within the game in its current state makes me not want to spend as much time in the game. Because first person and Immersion are focuses of MO2 people do use discord and PVC at the same time, and it is awful to deal with. This is a result of the fact that coordinating world PVP and immersion through PVC are incompatible in a competitive environment.

    It is a common complaint that no one knows who is talking to who because both discord and PVC are required to do any serious in MO2. I have also experienced these complaints in the following games:
    ATLAS, ARK, Conan Exiles, Reign of Kings, Dark and Light.

    To me, competitive serious open world PvX environments and PVC are incompatible.

    Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    2. Okay, I'm not logging into discord to talk to my random bar patrons for quick RP (discord main for organized group content.)

    Then don't. RP is not the focus of Ashes. It is a competitive open world war zone.
    The game is not focused on immersion.
    10. yeah this is the kind of answer I would expect from a person who bought alpha in 2020. Go play WOW.
    WOW has zero competitive Open World PvX systems and thus has no value to me.

    hKBVnLk.png
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    Neurath wrote: »
    I am a Roleplayer at heart and often used to play RP-PvP Servers. I would not benefit from Proximity chat because I'd rather stare at a female toon than a male toon, and, my female toon would sound male (I am male) on proximity chat. I don't mind in Groups/Raids or in my Guild, but, to random people I prefer kicking their asses in PvP with a female toon and have them believe I'm a female. It has been my preferred style for nigh on 20 years and I don't plan to change for 'the times'.

    I would disable proximity chat and many more like me would also disable proximity chat. You want numbers or seem to want numbers, but, you are the one asking for Proximity Chat so you should provide the numbers on how many people will use proximity chat in a MMORPG. We do not have to keep repeating our dislike for Proximity Chat. I had enough of Proximity Chat on Rust.

    So we all have to suffer because you want to play a female toon. that is a horrible way to think, that's that conservative thinking I was just talking about. "because I can't benefit, no one should" you can be a female toon and still kick ass, shoot I did with soul caliber, mortal comebat. I was even peach and Zelda (main characters) in mash bros. But I won't suffer for you because you "use" to RP as a female and it would be.... GASP... awkward.

    "I would disable proximity chat and many more like me would also disable proximity chat." Speak for yourself, don't need to hear what you think other people will do to validate your point.

    "You want numbers or seem to want numbers, but, you are the one asking for Proximity Chat so you should provide the numbers on how many people will use proximity chat in a MMORPG. "
    I don't have to provide numbers for you in order for Steven to implement proximity voice chat, the burden of proof is on YOU, ESPECIALLY sense you invoke words like " and many more like me". You are the one arguing against it, Not me.

  • ShoelidShoelid Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Trying to make this short and sweet:

    -PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    -Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    -Discord will be required by all serious guilds.
    -PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    -PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    -PVC does not work in open world PVP.
    -PVC does not work in raids.
    -PVC is annoying in crowded towns.
    -Noaani is right, MMO Veterans do not want PVC.
    -The game is not even first person.
    -The game is not focused on immersion.
    -This is not XBOX live.

    Needless to say I am pretty against PVC in MMORPGs.
    Most of these points apply to regular VC as well.

    Cheers.

    I have little else to add except - I agree with Vhaeyne's List.

    Well his points are garbage
    PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    1. okay and... not every facet of the games is going to be for you
    Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    2. Okay, I'm not logging into discord to talk to my random bar patrons for quick RP (discord main for organized group content.)
    Discord will be required by all serious guilds.
    3. Okay that's fine. PVC and Discord for guild wars is understandable and unrelated.
    PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    4. Not your call to make, Steven will be the say on that, not some rando who bought an alpha pack in 2020.
    -PVC does not work in open world PVP.
    5. Okay that's fine, most people who will use PVC and RP aren't pvpers anyway. Not everything is about you and your playstyle.
    -PVC does not work in raids.
    6. Okay, use discord for that, makes perfect sense I agree. Not PVC. However I would counter and say if you are raiding and 80% of the raids are open world. I would say it would be a plus to have PVC if another raid group shows up, because you can't just invite an entire raid group on the final dragon boss, you would need to communicate with their leader and fast to defuse the situation.
    -PVC is annoying in crowded towns.
    7. Okay, like I have said for the umpteenth time, go to settings and turn it off, just like you would music, or FX setting for animations, not hard.
    Noaani is right, MMO Veterans do not want PVC.
    8. Number please
    The game is not even first person.
    9. :neutral: Okay...
    The game is not focused on immersion.
    10. yeah this is the kind of answer I would expect from a person who bought alpha in 2020. Go play WOW.
    -This is not XBOX live.
    11. :neutral: Okay...

    A few things:
    1)According to the wiki, VOIP can be enabled for taverns.
    2)Whenever there's a feature like PVC that might be useful many players feel a pressure to use it, even if they find it very annoying. It's not as simple as just turning it off.
    3)Please GTFOH with this "I bought in earlier than you so I'm better than you" stuff.
  • NeurathNeurath Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    I am a Roleplayer at heart and often used to play RP-PvP Servers. I would not benefit from Proximity chat because I'd rather stare at a female toon than a male toon, and, my female toon would sound male (I am male) on proximity chat. I don't mind in Groups/Raids or in my Guild, but, to random people I prefer kicking their asses in PvP with a female toon and have them believe I'm a female. It has been my preferred style for nigh on 20 years and I don't plan to change for 'the times'.

    I would disable proximity chat and many more like me would also disable proximity chat. You want numbers or seem to want numbers, but, you are the one asking for Proximity Chat so you should provide the numbers on how many people will use proximity chat in a MMORPG. We do not have to keep repeating our dislike for Proximity Chat. I had enough of Proximity Chat on Rust.

    So we all have to suffer because you want to play a female toon. that is a horrible way to think, that's that conservative thinking I was just talking about. "because I can't benefit, no one should" you can be a female toon and still kick ass, shoot I did with soul caliber, mortal comebat. I was even peach and Zelda (main characters) in mash bros. But I won't suffer for you because you "use" to RP as a female and it would be.... GASP... awkward.

    "I would disable proximity chat and many more like me would also disable proximity chat." Speak for yourself, don't need to hear what you think other people will do to validate your point.

    "You want numbers or seem to want numbers, but, you are the one asking for Proximity Chat so you should provide the numbers on how many people will use proximity chat in a MMORPG. "
    I don't have to provide numbers for you in order for Steven to implement proximity voice chat, the burden of proof is on YOU, ESPECIALLY sense you invoke words like " and many more like me". You are the one arguing against it, Not me.

    You seem to be a younger person without inhibition. The current state of the circumstance is there is no Proximity Chat at all in Ashes of Creation. You are asking for a fundamental change which I disagree with. You are the one which needs proof that your idea is a good fit for the game. Getting angry and offensive won't cut the mustard. It is true I look after my own priorities first and you are the exact same as me except you can't control your passions whereas I learnt to control my passions with arguments with Noanni. Your request will be seen by the devs but the devs don't have to act upon your request. It is not for me to say the devs should listen to your request. I'm simply defending the current state of the game and the reasons why I backed.

    If you wanted proximity chat why didn't you back New World instead of Ashes?
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    edited May 21
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    @angelicshiya

    Seeing a lot of: "Okay, that's fine." for most of my points.

    I'll address your responses that stand out.
    PVC will be ignored by anyone taking the game seriously.
    1. okay and... not every facet of the games is going to be for you
    Part of the reason I backed, and support Ashes is the fact that PVC is not a facet of the game. If it were, I would seriously reconsider how much time and energy I am willing to spend on Ashes.

    I play Mortal Online 2 currently, and the reliance on PVC within the game in its current state makes me not want to spend as much time in the game. Because first person and Immersion are focuses of MO2 people do use discord and PVC at the same time, and it is awful to deal with. This is a result of the fact that coordinating world PVP and immersion through PVC are incompatible in a competitive environment.

    It is a common complaint that no one knows who is talking to who because both discord and PVC are required to do any serious in MO2. I have also experienced these complaints in the following games:
    ATLAS, ARK, Conan Exiles, Reign of Kings, Dark and Light.

    To me, competitive serious open world PvX environments and PVC are incompatible.

    Discord is a dedicated program that is 1000x better than anything Intrepid is willing to develop.
    2. Okay, I'm not logging into discord to talk to my random bar patrons for quick RP (discord main for organized group content.)

    Then don't. RP is not the focus of Ashes. It is a competitive open world war zone.
    The game is not focused on immersion.
    10. yeah this is the kind of answer I would expect from a person who bought alpha in 2020. Go play WOW.
    WOW has zero competitive Open World PvX systems and thus has no value to me.

    okay and... not every facet of the games is going to be for you[/quote]
    Part of the reason I backed, and support Ashes is the fact that PVC is not a facet of the game. If it were, I would seriously reconsider how much time and energy I am willing to spend on Ashes.

    I play Mortal Online 2 currently, and the reliance on PVC within the game in its current state makes me not want to spend as much time in the game. Because first person and Immersion are focuses of MO2 people do use discord and PVC at the same time, and it is awful to deal with. This is a result of the fact that coordinating world PVP and immersion through PVC are incompatible in a competitive environment.

    That whole blob of words can be scratched out and thrown away because it is uselss when arguing for PVC, we don't want to hear about how people use PVC and disc, pick one and stick to it.


    Then don't. RP is not the focus of Ashes. It is a competitive open world war zone.
    RP is one of the focus and pillars of Ashes, hence why they are having hotels you can own, taverns, parlor games, freeholds, farming, over 100 emotes at start, the wand of many things, literally RP costumes and outfits, Songs players can play in the taverns. Back in 2018 during a livestream Steven said there is a role for everyone in Ashes and that RP would have a big role in Ashes just like the pvpers and pveres.
  • NeurathNeurath Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I can't help but think 'Leader of Men' is ironic for you Angelic.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Shoelid wrote: »
    A few things:
    1)According to the wiki, VOIP can be enabled for taverns.
    Yes, and I think all VOIP is a waste of time there too.

    I think those of you that are excited about taverns are overly optimistic and will be disappointed with what you get. Serious guilds will organize everything out of game and never have a reason to enter a tavern. People not in serious guilds are going to have slow progression and are going to be frustrated that the game is about Risk Vs Reward. They will likley go back to WOW or FFXIV after a month.

    My prediction at least.
    Shoelid wrote: »
    2)Whenever there's a feature like PVC that might be useful many players feel a pressure to use it, even if they find it very annoying. It's not as simple as just turning it off.
    It will not be "Useful", It will be a novelty for those who have not realized how bad it is yet.
    Shoelid wrote: »
    3)Please GTFOH with this "I bought in earlier than you so I'm better than you" stuff.
    I never said that. Read. I said it is not why I backed.
    hKBVnLk.png
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    edited May 21
    You seem to be a younger person without inhibition. The current state of the circumstance is there is no Proximity Chat at all in Ashes of Creation. You are asking for a fundamental change which I disagree with. You are the one which needs proof that your idea is a good fit for the game. Getting angry and offensive won't cut the mustard. It is true I look after my own priorities first and you are the exact same as me except you can't control your passions whereas I learnt to control my passions with arguments with Noanni. Your request will be seen by the devs but the devs don't have to act upon your request. It is not for me to say the devs should listen to your request. I'm simply defending the current state of the game and the reasons why I backed.

    If you wanted proximity chat why didn't you back New World instead of Ashes?[/quote]

    The reason for these discussions is so that we can voice our opinions. Margret even said they are considering it.
  • ShoelidShoelid Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Shoelid wrote: »
    A few things:
    1)According to the wiki, VOIP can be enabled for taverns.
    Yes, and I think all VOIP is a waste of time there too.

    I think those of you that are excited about taverns are overly optimistic and will be disappointed with what you get. Serious guilds will organize everything out of game and never have a reason to enter a tavern. People not in serious guilds are going to have slow progression and are going to be frustrated that the game is about Risk Vs Reward. They will likley go back to WOW or FFXIV after a month.

    My prediction at least.
    Shoelid wrote: »
    2)Whenever there's a feature like PVC that might be useful many players feel a pressure to use it, even if they find it very annoying. It's not as simple as just turning it off.
    It will not be "Useful", It will be a novelty for those who have not realized how bad it is yet.
    Shoelid wrote: »
    3)Please GTFOH with this "I bought in earlier than you so I'm better than you" stuff.
    I never said that. Read. I said it is not why I backed.

    i was replying to @angelicshiya there :open_mouth:
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    Sorry I can't take what you have to say seriously @Shoelid
  • NeurathNeurath Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Yes, you can voice your opinions, like I can voice my opinions. You have VOIP in taverns (which you said you wanted proximity chat for) but that does not mean proximity chat is a good fit for the rest of the game. A good teabag session says all I want it to say and I don't have to do any lip movements except smile.
  • ShoelidShoelid Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Sorry I can't take what you have to say seriously @Shoelid

    feeling's mutual
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    @Neurath What does it matter what age I am? I m 27 and Have my own business, hold a masters degree, own real-estate and will be retired by the time I am 40. I don't need a lecture from an old man who is probably working a 9-5 and is a conservative and hates progress.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    @Neurath Yes, your opinion is hot garbage and holds society back.
  • NeurathNeurath Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I don't work 9-5, I work whenever i feel like it and if i don't feel like it i don't have to work. I do have to post a letter in an hour or two but that's an exception rather than a rule. I merely felt you were younger because of your mannerisms. You seem very frantic in your posts, half the time your quotes are messy and half the time you make no response to quotes.

    The point remains, proximity chat will be bad for the general game. I already don't plan on sitting in Taverns, I don't want to have to consider whether I want to play the rest of the game after release.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    4. Not your call to make, Steven will be the say on that, not some rando who bought an alpha pack in 2020.
    This is 100% true.

    Steven has said there will be voice chat in game. That it will be for guilds, groups and raids, and that you can opt to turn on proximity voice chat in taverns.

    Since you say this is Stevens decision to make, not some rando who bought a whatever, does this mean that as far as you are concerned, the discussion is over?

    I mean, you said it is his decision to make, and he made it a while ago.

    If you have valid reasons as to why he should rethink his decision, go for it. Everyone here knows I am all about providing valid reasons to rethink decisions.

    However, if you don't have something to add that hasn't been considered, by your own logic, you should be considering the discussion over.
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    @Neurath Yea well, you try having a back and forth with 3 people at once and trying to quotes everyone's idiotic takes. I don't seem frantic, that's your hatred for diversity oozing out of you, latching on to me so that you can feel better about losing an argument.

    The point remains proximity chat will be good for the general game. I already don't plan on sitting pvpving and monster killing, but rather sitting in town RPing in Taverns.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @Neurath What does it matter what age I am? I m 27 and Have my own business, hold a masters degree, own real-estate and will be retired by the time I am 40. I don't need a lecture from an old man who is probably working a 9-5 and is a conservative and hates progress.
    @Neurath Yes, your opinion is hot garbage and holds society back.

    Easy there, tiger.
    hKBVnLk.png
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    Noaani wrote: »
    PVC is a waste of intrepid's time to develop.
    PVC is a waste of Intrepid's time to moderate.
    4. Not your call to make, Steven will be the say on that, not some rando who bought an alpha pack in 2020.
    This is 100% true.

    Steven has said there will be voice chat in game. That it will be for guilds, groups and raids, and that you can opt to turn on proximity voice chat in taverns.

    Since you say this is Stevens decision to make, not some rando who bought a whatever, does this mean that as far as you are concerned, the discussion is over?

    I mean, you said it is his decision to make, and he made it a while ago.

    If you have valid reasons as to why he should rethink his decision, go for it. Everyone here knows I am all about providing valid reasons to rethink decisions.

    However, if you don't have something to add that hasn't been considered, by your own logic, you should be considering the discussion over.

    I will argue till I am blue in the face if I have to. And Steven said, they are considering PVC in the general populace. The discussions is over either when they stop responding or I am tired of repeating myself, which is not anytime soon.

  • NeurathNeurath Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited May 21
    I have lost no argument, I've made some posts and you've made some posts. You make emphatic statements and then don't even back those statements up. I told you I wouldn't recommend Proximity Chat to the devs and I've not done that. You seem to be misguided in the belief that somehow you've won the argument but you were having the argument alone. I haven't stooped into the argument, I've maintained my line and maintained the respect. My tongue in cheek jibes were perfect for the occasion. I hope you're more accommodating to the general populace when you run your tavern.

    Edit: Spelling mistakes
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    Neurath wrote: »
    I have lost no argument, I've made some posts and you've made some posts. You make emphatic statements and then don't even back those statements up. I told you I wouldn't recommend Proximity Chat to the devs and I've not done that. You seem to be misguided in the belief that somehow you've won the argument but you were having the argument alone. I haven't stooped into the argument, I've maintained my line and maintained the respect. My tongue in cheek jibes were perfect for the occasion. I hope you're more accommodating to the general populace when you run your tavern.

    Edit: Spelling mistakes

    Of course I will be a hospitable host when I run my own hostel. But on this thread you will not shut down a good idea because you don't wanna hear people yell in 250v250 because that's an easy fix.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 21
    I will argue till I am blue in the face if I have to.
    Or until you get a forum ban, which some of your posts are fairly close to warranting.
    hold a masters degree
    I find this hard to believe when you don't know the difference between where and we're, among other such things.

    I don't really care too much about things like this (the volume of misused, similar sounding words on these forums make me weep for humanity, and I have even had a few mistakes due to my phones auto-correct), but don't go making claims like this when they are clearly not true.

    All you are doing is degrading the value of such degrees to those that really do have them.
  • NeurathNeurath Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I stated my issue in the first page or second page of this thread. I don't want two push to talk buttons and I don't want to echo in groups and raids. There are talkers, and there are fighters. Talkers can talk the talk but fighters will win the fight. Silence can unnerve opponents and silence can be a valid tactic. Time to kill will be around 30-60 seconds, not sure if there will be a GCD (I hope not) but if you split your focus in PvP you will often end up defeated.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Neurath wrote: »
    I stated my issue in the first page or second page of this thread. I don't want two push to talk buttons and I don't want to echo in groups and raids. There are talkers, and there are fighters. Talkers can talk the talk but fighters will win the fight. Silence can unnerve opponents and silence can be a valid tactic. Time to kill will be around 30-60 seconds, not sure if there will be a GCD (I hope not) but if you split your focus in PvP you will often end up defeated.

    Why have two push-to-talks when you can have all the fun of two open mics!
    hKBVnLk.png
  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    Noaani wrote: »
    I will argue till I am blue in the face if I have to.
    Or until you get a forum ban, which some of your posts are fairly close to warranting.
    hold a masters degree
    I find this hard to believe when you don't know the difference between where and we're, among other such things.

    I don't really care too much about things like this (the volume of misused, similar sounding words on these forums make me weep for humanity, and I have even had a few mistakes due to my phones auto-correct), but don't go making claims like this when they are clearly not true.

    All you are doing is degrading the value of such degrees to those that really do have them.

    I find this hard to believe when you don't know the difference between where and we're, among other such things.
    Common mistake, I can also tell you the difference between There, They're and Their. if ya want kiddo.


    All you are doing is degrading the value of such degrees to those that really do have them.

    LOL, I worked my ass off for my degree, My end of the year 100 page research paper was no joke. Just because I'm shooting off at the mouth at 1am doesn't mean I didn't work hard. Hey! I can even show you I have my own business at 27 yr old if you want.
  • NeurathNeurath Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited May 21
    Vhaeyne wrote: »
    Why have two push-to-talks when you can have all the fun of two open mics!

    I could have two open mics and blare my heavy metal and opera music at my foes. I have a liquid cooled pc so the old issue of fan whirl would no longer be a problem. Of course though, I'd rather not have proximity chat.

    Edit: Quote added for reference.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One
    Who knows what will result form all these discussion,; maybe we do end up jumping in game and come across a roaming back flipping, short, slender transmogging tanking (but not a tank) dwarf that comes equipped with area of proximity chat, runs a tavern and has handy little combat tracker while sporting a long, but not so long pole.!

    (have I missed any other hot topics)?

    Seriously though, sporting chat by all means, but lets keep it civil.

  • angelicshiyaangelicshiya Member, Leader of Men, Alpha One
    Yes lets keep this conversation civil.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I should add lack of civility to my list and site this forum thread as an example of why we should not have PVC.

    If we can't moderate ourselves in text, what chance do we have in PVC.
    hKBVnLk.png
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