Dolyem wrote: » Just to reiterate how silly these weapons are for an MMO. Heres a guy standing still and calm doing a demonstration for loading and firing a musket... 3 shots in roughly a minute, standing still without anything happening to them...with a musket designed in 1853, so roughly 350 years after the medieval period. Go ahead and toss this in the game with this fire rate and the lack of accuracy and misfires. lmao. I love guns myself but this romanticizing of old school black powder in high fantasy is just silly to me when magic is an option.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXxEkZ6yuA0
bloodprophet wrote: » They used to do competitions for speed loading. They stopped because there would still be hot spots in the barrel and as people were pouring powder down the barrel it would ignite and hurt or worse the shooter. Load times are important. Shooting black powder is fun but also very sketchy at times. Not exactly a consistent effect every time. sometimes works or sometimes get a delayed fire 3-10 seconds. Sometimes get a complete misfire and need to clear it. Also not as accurate as some people think. Pre-rifling the ball could drift a lot really quickly. Not what they show in the movies. Personally I am happy Intrepid said no gun powder.
Vvess wrote: » bloodprophet wrote: » They used to do competitions for speed loading. They stopped because there would still be hot spots in the barrel and as people were pouring powder down the barrel it would ignite and hurt or worse the shooter. Load times are important. Shooting black powder is fun but also very sketchy at times. Not exactly a consistent effect every time. sometimes works or sometimes get a delayed fire 3-10 seconds. Sometimes get a complete misfire and need to clear it. Also not as accurate as some people think. Pre-rifling the ball could drift a lot really quickly. Not what they show in the movies. Personally I am happy Intrepid said no gun powder. dude i literally suggested those same effects and brough up fucking rifleing already as muskets, blunderbuss', and flintlock pistols didnt have that and said they should be innacurate because of that and honetly if they add a misfire feature than i think that offers the chance to make guns do EVEN MORE damage and often times be 1 shots because its kinda like either a rng back maybe you save yourself and have both good aim and luck or perhaps a ranger at distance can do serious damage and make vital picks or just deal absurd damage to bosses or clusters of players like say a lot of grouped up tanks
Noaani wrote: » Vvess wrote: » bloodprophet wrote: » They used to do competitions for speed loading. They stopped because there would still be hot spots in the barrel and as people were pouring powder down the barrel it would ignite and hurt or worse the shooter. Load times are important. Shooting black powder is fun but also very sketchy at times. Not exactly a consistent effect every time. sometimes works or sometimes get a delayed fire 3-10 seconds. Sometimes get a complete misfire and need to clear it. Also not as accurate as some people think. Pre-rifling the ball could drift a lot really quickly. Not what they show in the movies. Personally I am happy Intrepid said no gun powder. dude i literally suggested those same effects and brough up fucking rifleing already as muskets, blunderbuss', and flintlock pistols didnt have that and said they should be innacurate because of that and honetly if they add a misfire feature than i think that offers the chance to make guns do EVEN MORE damage and often times be 1 shots because its kinda like either a rng back maybe you save yourself and have both good aim and luck or perhaps a ranger at distance can do serious damage and make vital picks or just deal absurd damage to bosses or clusters of players like say a lot of grouped up tanks The problem here is, as inaccurate as those weapons are, they still only came after damn near 1,000 years of innovation in guns. The weapons you are talking about are only any good against a dense mass of targets. You can aim all you want, but you will almost never hit a single person if they are more than about 20 paces away. However, if you are firing at 100 people, you're probably going to hit someone. A weapon that had an innate chance to just miss your target most of the time isn't exactly a great fit for an MMO, regardless of the technology.
Dolyem wrote: » I love guns myself but this romanticizing of old school black powder in high fantasy is just silly to me when magic is an option.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXxEkZ6yuA0
Vvess wrote: » daveywavey wrote: » Vvess wrote: » aww man really? i mean i have literally 0 idea why EVERYONE seems to hate the idea of like a bolt action rifle or hell a musket or blunderbuss of flintlock weapons Because it's High Fantasy. Think Medieval-style weaponry along with magic. No guns! You want guns, go back to World Of Borecraft! newsflahs, there are reports of firearm type weapons being used all the way back in the mid 1300's sooooo when you say 'medieval-style weapons' that does include guns....
daveywavey wrote: » Vvess wrote: » aww man really? i mean i have literally 0 idea why EVERYONE seems to hate the idea of like a bolt action rifle or hell a musket or blunderbuss of flintlock weapons Because it's High Fantasy. Think Medieval-style weaponry along with magic. No guns! You want guns, go back to World Of Borecraft!
Vvess wrote: » aww man really? i mean i have literally 0 idea why EVERYONE seems to hate the idea of like a bolt action rifle or hell a musket or blunderbuss of flintlock weapons
Tyranthraxus wrote: » If Intrepid doesn't allow at LEAST Grapeshot cannons, then I don't know how we're going to get this wily thread back under control.
Ironhope wrote: » Lore-wise, training a half-decent mage might take years and cost 50.000 gold coins. Meanwhile, training a half-decent musketeer will take a few weeks and cost 200 gold coins. Supplying a mage on the front might also cost far more than supplying a musketeer. Yes the reload time is great... but so is the damage. And that's what I think could make guns such a unique weapon. Regarding primitive pistols, you would carry many, already-loaded, on you. As many as a dozen. To compensate for the very long reload rate. Could be an interesting possibility in AOC as well. I'd like to see muskets and pistols because I think you can't have the pirate and naval explorer fantasy to the full extent without cannonsa and primitive guns.
Vvess wrote: » you do know that the way bows are supposedly going to work is that you take shots from ACTUAL range right? the devs kinda of wnat this exact thing for rangers anyway and i would agree since you cant use your distance abilities if your too close to your target meaning that the long reload time would work as you take one shot and if you miss because the guns would also be inaccurate while dealing a lot of damage than you should have the time to reload the rifle and take all 3 shots and perhaps only need 2 if your target is by themselves and beyond when it comes to blunderbuss shotguns and flintlock pistols it again isnt a issue because they are weapons i think would work better as naval back up weapons to either deal a lot of damage and maybe 1 shot boarding parties or for a fighter for example they could run into the backlines with the blunderbuss and blast a fuckin healer clerics ass out in 1 shot than switch to a sword to continue their flank assault or perhaps that same fighter instead could go in and do the burst damage and say the miss 1 of the 2 abilites they tried and so the person is only low but managed to get on a mount with the pistol could offer a single shot to try to finish them before they get away.
bloodprophet wrote: » Tyranthraxus wrote: » If Intrepid doesn't allow at LEAST Grapeshot cannons, then I don't know how we're going to get this wily thread back under control. Kind of won't.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guns_and_gunpowder Gunpowder (black powder) weapons will not be present in Ashes of Creation.[3][4]
Voidwalkers wrote: » Tyranthraxus wrote: » If Intrepid doesn't allow at LEAST Grapeshot cannons, then I don't know how we're going to get this wily thread back under control. (Somewhat off-topic) I have a theory that all forum threads would go out of control as soon as ppl started typing very long replies that weren't properly divided into paragraphs
Dolyem wrote: » Ironhope wrote: » -That being said, why would a gun be even dwelled upon when in high fantasy, you have magic commonly used and far more effective than a bunch of grapeshot when you can just literally melt somebody. simple and honestly its the last time im gonna say it... in a world where there are fucking 100ft flying lizards that breathe fucking fire that literally you can see from the castle battlements are you seriously going to tell me that people wont want the best easiest ways to deal with that shit and secondly are you telling me the common person who wants to defend themselves and their families and the cities that obviously wont likely be able to make a town guard purely of the strongest of strong magic casters and hell wont even be able to make a guard fully of just moderatly ok magic casters with magic taking time, effort, and skill to learn and eventually master on top of its likely not being something everyone and their baby can use, let alone something they wanna try to develop especially when you consider that as far as i could tell from the lore it was likely magic itself that caused the worlds downfall and forced everyone to haveta leave vera with ultimatly a gun doesnt take to much to teach someone to use and again a musket even if it in OUR world with the worst threats being bears, wolves and coyotes, and the occasional bandit or army raiding the town with 2 of those 4 things being uncommon for the most part anyways its a matter of the fact black powder and firearms initial sparks of existence being around as early possibely as the 13th century means people with more reason that us to make weapons can easily do it.
Ironhope wrote: » -That being said, why would a gun be even dwelled upon when in high fantasy, you have magic commonly used and far more effective than a bunch of grapeshot when you can just literally melt somebody.
McMackMuck wrote: » I'm familiar with several medieval black powder weapons because I've used replicas or seen them used. They are great against stationary targets or dense units of soldiers because you can light the fuse, wait a few seconds for the bang (partially cover your ears, open your mouth!) and see an effect. The kind of anti-personnel black powder weapons present in the 14th century were limited to small cannons on a long stick or on a small carriage. They had the reputation of being almost more risk to the users than to the enemy. All of them were muzzleloaders, taking A LOT of time (30 seconds?) to run through a swab, charge ram, shot ram, (stand clear), give fire cycle for 2 or 3 crew. Running through the cycle too quickly could lead to a charge ram being ignited in the barrel removing the arm of the person ramming the charge home. Even the idea of late medieval arquebus (15th century) being a sniper weapon is madness. The flight of the projectile was wildly inaccurate and only useful in large numbers of troops against dense troop formations. Rifling barrels for accuracy wasn't common practice until several hundred years later. This is when the idea of marksmen or snipers started to develop. /quote] how many fucking times do i have to repeat that i under-fucking-stand that when flintlocks and matchlocks were the best guns around they still didnt have rifling and that made those guns very inaccurate but the fucking point is that is just another intresting mechanic to add to them to make them more realistic and unique and not just 'it bow but it no need to be drawn back! just pull trigger and arrow go fly!' but rather a weapon that is unreliable but with the promise of potential reward big time and on the front of it taking a long time to load a musket i fucking know and are you telling me that games havent made for example firearms from the midwest able to be reloaded in less than fucking 6 seconds for balance reasons? like that argument is as fucking dumb as saying "EvEn ThE fAsTeSt PeOpLe IrL tO sHoOt CrOsSbOwS cAnT ReLoAd ThEm In 3 SeCoNdS wItH a 1 HaNdEd GrIp!!!" and forgotting games doing semi unrealistic things for balance like making it possible for a 6ft dude with a fucking club to do serious damage to a massive fucking dragon or making people apparently the godliest gods of reloading because it makes the game more balanced. seriously i have no fucking clue why you all hate the idea with a burning passion
Vvess wrote: » simple and honestly its the last time im gonna say it... in a world where there are fucking 100ft flying lizards that breathe fucking fire that literally you can see from the castle battlements are you seriously going to tell me that people wont want the best easiest ways to deal with that shit and secondly are you telling me the common person who wants to defend themselves and their families and the cities that obviously wont likely be able to make a town guard purely of the strongest of strong magic casters and hell wont even be able to make a guard fully of just moderatly ok magic casters with magic taking time, effort, and skill to learn and eventually master on top of its likely not being something everyone and their baby can use, let alone something they wanna try to develop especially when you consider that as far as i could tell from the lore it was likely magic itself that caused the worlds downfall and forced everyone to haveta leave vera with ultimatly a gun doesnt take to much to teach someone to use and again a musket even if it in OUR world with the worst threats being bears, wolves and coyotes, and the occasional bandit or army raiding the town with 2 of those 4 things being uncommon for the most part anyways its a matter of the fact black powder and firearms initial sparks of existence being around as early possibely as the 13th century means people with more reason that us to make weapons can easily do it.
Vvess wrote: » last thing i will say cause im tired of reapeating the exact same thing i said but to someone who seemingly has only read the first fucking post of this thread is that if guns were added than the most you would likely EVER see them is that occasionally there will be a dude walking by with a gun and if they add crossbows and espeically if those crossbow's bolts have say a white or yellow trail than that makes it to the fucking point that you literally have guns already but they just funciton slightly differently than a gun would mechanics wise and really they just have a bow sticking in the front of them. like you all fucking sound like those sorta fucking evangelical preachers that say that homosexual people need to fucking die because homosexuality is wrong espeically in how you seem to not even realise i already responding to the same exact comment your gonna make when talking to a different person in the SAME FUCKING CONVERSATION...
