Monthly Locked FOMO cosmetic offerings need to end.

As a Backer I get the reasoning behind not opening cosmetics to general public sales so the "exclusivity" remains intact.
However the KS campaign has served it's purpose. Since then there have been many adjustments to allowing ongoing player driven funding/support.

But its been over a year now of monthly arbitrary locked cosmetic offerings and I feel it's time to stop with the FOMO marketing.

The monthly live steam mounts/skins pitch is starting to piss in the punch bowl of positive vibes regarding the general perspective of the game.

I believe Intrepid are aware of the monthly meme worthy context and it's cumulative negative impact.

I think 2022 would be a good time to acknowledged this fact and open all NEW ongoing cosmetic offerings to general sale with no time gating.

All prior cosmetics/backer rewards can and should retain their exclusive status as not offend those backers/customers.

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Comments

Happymeal2415

I can't believe people feel like it's intrepids responsibility to hold everyone's hand through how to spend money

Gaul_

I love how people complain like FOMO is some sort of crazy anti-consumer practice.

You are exposed to FOMO marketing constantly. Google "FOMO marketing" and you will get dozens of everyday examples like a product being on a limited time sale.

Intrepid is selling optional cosmetics so they can run a business and make the game. It's really not a big deal if you have self control. Don't like it? Then don't buy it.

Vhaeyne

Overthrow wrote: »

I love how people complain like FOMO is some sort of crazy anti-consumer practice.

You are exposed to FOMO marketing constantly. Google "FOMO marketing" and you will get dozens of everyday examples like a product being on a limited time sale.

Intrepid is selling optional cosmetics so they can run a business and make the game. It's really not a big deal if you have self control. Don't like it? Then don't buy it.

They make the self-control part really easy, too. We have not had a pack I like since June 2021. Every month I excited to see what the new pack is, and every month it's not my cup of tea.

If they went to quarterly sales, I don't think I would end up buying anything most years. It's already rare I like something in a given four-month period.

Tyranthraxus

Here's the SINGLE BEST REASON having so much work done in cosmetics is objectively good, for the game:

In a word: 'Variety'; There are variations on every Cash Shop set that is to come out. This means that the NPCs' in-game wardrobe is already FAR more-vast than most MMORPGs'. Not only does this ensure that a broader universe of personal customization is open to us as players - but it also means that our game world's NPCs will possess a richer, more-varied wardrobe. The knights and Captains giving out quests? Yeah, I'd like to remember them well, when they re-occur later in the story by their unique appearances - instead of vaguely recalling these characters based on a facial feature, since their armor is all nearly the same.

When people decry customization-type work versus other developmental processes? Just think about this: Are the graphic artists at Intrepid all also universally software-and-system engineers? Just because the people who have been outputting so much customization work over these years are *on* the Dev team, it doesn't mean that they are doing (or even *can* do) the same things that people like the engineers are doing. Yes: You might free up a couple dozen people by taking them off the Graphic Artists' team - but do you really think that they know how to code a UE5 game engine asset that will mark the border of a Node and report to the back-end that specific Node's to-the-minute activity metrics?

There's no need to wind-down the Art production of AoC in favor of advancing other areas. I know some of you are eager for the game to be out - but this effort really should be made to be worth the wait. It might feel like FOMO to have specific appearance gear only be available in Pre-Launch - but anytime this issue is raised, it feels like it's always from someone who hasn't had enough exposure to information on the topic. Case-and-point? The "best-looking" variant of each outfit is supposed to be in-game achievable through looting and deeds. We won't be able to color gear (beyond matching to a central piece's color-theme), either - which leaves plenty of opportunity for a slightly-different color or shade of the same piece of appearance gear to be epically earned via deeds and questing - instead of being bought.

TheDarkPaladin

I do believe that them locking the ability to buy specific cosmetics without owning a pack to be counterproductive and I think it should be dropped since it is likely to increase their income.
there were times I saw an item or 2 in some of their monthly packs but didn't purchase them because I didn't like the rest of the pack and couldn't justify spending 375 on a pack I'll only use a single item from.

Doing this would also be a show of good faith and act as a way to facilitate the marketing team's job and put ashes in a good light in front of the MMO community, in addition to deflecting some of the complaints that some people had while talking about ashes.

and just to clarify, I do own the dying of the light pack, so it's not as if I'm not interested in the cosmetics.

Okeydoke

I am very sympathetic to the OP's general feelings on cosmetics and I think the idea in his post is reasonable to consider. What if people could buy a skin every month or so and work their way up to a dollar amount equal to a package, and then be rewarded the benefits of that package?

In a sense maybe they already can, buy the 75 dollar package and just keep buying from there. But what if the skin sales were just opened up period, for anyone, at any amount?

I think we'd see more sales. But maybe less too because part of the exclusivity aspect of it would be gone. It's up to Intrepid to determine what makes for a better stream of revenue. I want Intrepid to make as much money as possible, with a strong caveat of as long as it's not in predatory or otherwise sketchy ways. Which I don't think it is right now.

I say I'm sympathetic to the OP, and I am. But at the same time I don't really care. And I thank God for blessing me to not care about skins.

But his post is a far cry from the constant nonsensical anti cosmetic posts we see on reddit. Worth at least thinking about I think.

Boanergese

I don't think the sales are limited as much as gated from an economic standpoint. I just ordered my voyager plus pack because I am interested in testing the game, believe in the vision of the game, and recently discovered the creation of this project. I can understand that $375 is a lot of money for the average family. For some people that could be near a month's rent for an apartment depending on where you live. If as some people suggested starting in 2022 they sold the items separately, then I think people would buy what they wanted, and sales would definitely increase. I think if you sold each item for $5 or $10 each, you would probably make a million sales.

As Margaret Khron said in the last livestream the cosmetic sales help the team spend resources in developing the world by adding more mobs, buildings, etc. You don't have to buy them. If they wanted them to be limited addition, they could sell the items individually for $1,000 each, given them only to the original kick starter backers who pledged $2,500 or higher. I did think this is a FOMO situation. Yes, would I like to go back and purchase some of the items from past releases which I think are awesome, sure. Right now they are attached to the preorder packet. All you can do is petition the company to not attach them and sell it individually starting in 2022. Get 5000 people to vote yes, we want it changed and maybe they would want to do it. If this was all about corporate greed it would be financially better for them to sell the items for $5 each to raise capital. Steven said in the last livestream that there are already a million preorders for the game and that we have a great community. At least they are not like Star Citizen making you buy the ship in order to use it.

Atama

I check every month, if I see something I like a lot I buy it.

I don’t buy most things and most of the time I don’t buy anything.

I don’t see what’s wrong or predatory about what they’re doing.

Okeydoke

It's not wrong or predatory at all. I'm fine with it the way it is. It does reward people who are bigger supporters, and that has merit in it's own right.

There is an argument that can be made to expand the tent though. My opinion is that that's a financial decision for Intrepid to make, which they pretty much already have. But they could reconsider it at times, which Steven probably does.

Gizban

Jahlon wrote: »

I am actually amazed at the lack of any business sense from the majority of the posts I saw in this thread.

#1 - Most of the first 5 people who responded clearly didn't even read the original post. You just felt it necessary to be on the opposing side of the argument, even though you didn't even understand the suggestion.

I did read the post and I was the first to reply. I did not agree with the OP nor did I find it necessary to enumerate my reasons.
His disdain is obvious and I didn't feel like discussing it with him and so I made my position plain.

Jahlon wrote: »

What really needs to happen with a change in the business model, is that the six individual cosmetics need to not be locked behind a minimum $375 pay wall. Allow everyone regardless of backer level to purchase any of the six cosmetics.

I was not aware of this.

In the details for the $75 Wayfarer Pre-Order it pack it states: In addition to the cosmetic items granted with the Wayfarer Pre-Order Pack at the time of purchase, you will also be entitled to purchase future monthly cosmetics as add-ons for the Wayfarer Level Pre-Order Pack and below.

Is this not the case? Are you not allowed to buy each and every monthly cosmetic as an Add-on if you own the $75 pre-order pack?

Noaani

pyreal wrote: »

Jahlon wrote: »

I am actually amazed at the lack of any business sense from the majority of the posts I saw in this thread.

#1 - Most of the first 5 people who responded clearly didn't even read the original post. You just felt it necessary to be on the opposing side of the argument, even though you didn't even understand the suggestion.

Jahlon wrote: »

What really needs to happen with a change in the business model, is that the six individual cosmetics need to not be locked behind a minimum $375 pay wall. Allow everyone regardless of backer level to purchase any of the six cosmetics.

I was not aware of this.

In the details for the $75 Wayfarer Pre-Order it pack it states: In addition to the cosmetic items granted with the Wayfarer Pre-Order Pack at the time of purchase, you will also be entitled to purchase future monthly cosmetics as add-ons for the Wayfarer Level Pre-Order Pack and below.

Is this not the case? Are you not allowed to buy each and every monthly cosmetic as an Add-on if you own the $75 pre-order pack?

You can purchase up to Wayfarer cosmetics.

In other words, you can buy any cosmetic that is in a future Wayfarer pack, but not those that are in higher tier packs.

As an example, if you had previously purchased a Wayfarer pack, you could buy the Midnight mask, but not the Stars kind pet from this month.

George_Black

You ppl keep treating them cosmetics as products and not as a "thank you for the support" feature. Hence your misguided or intentional demands for a change.

Why should you be able to buy a cosmetic when the game is still on Development? They are exclusive to supporters. Deal with it.

Okeydoke

Even if Intrepid did everything the OP wanted, the vast majority of people that are anti cosmetic sales/exclusivity would still be bitching about the solution the OP wants. So I mean...it's just up to Intrepid and what they want their cosmetic sales business model to be. It really doesn't matter that much, to me at least. I know some people take skins pretty seriously though.

TheDarkPaladin

George Black wrote: »

You ppl keep treating them cosmetics as products and not as a "thank you for the support" feature. Hence your misguided or intentional demands for a change.

Why should you be able to buy a cosmetic when the game is still on Development? They are exclusive to supporters. Deal with it.

generating more income without risking bad PR or back lash ?

Noaani

TheDarkPaladin wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

You ppl keep treating them cosmetics as products and not as a "thank you for the support" feature. Hence your misguided or intentional demands for a change.

Why should you be able to buy a cosmetic when the game is still on Development? They are exclusive to supporters. Deal with it.

generating more income without risking bad PR or back lash ?

What bad PR?

Vhaeyne

Noaani wrote: »

TheDarkPaladin wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

You ppl keep treating them cosmetics as products and not as a "thank you for the support" feature. Hence your misguided or intentional demands for a change.

Why should you be able to buy a cosmetic when the game is still on Development? They are exclusive to supporters. Deal with it.

generating more income without risking bad PR or back lash ?

What bad PR?

Exactly, this has been going on for years now and the Ashes fan base has only grown.

Nerror

Yay this discussion again!

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

TheDarkPaladin wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

You ppl keep treating them cosmetics as products and not as a "thank you for the support" feature. Hence your misguided or intentional demands for a change.

Why should you be able to buy a cosmetic when the game is still on Development? They are exclusive to supporters. Deal with it.

generating more income without risking bad PR or back lash ?

What bad PR?

Exactly, this has been going on for years now and the Ashes fan base has only grown.

Come on now, the two are not mutually exclusive. People aren't coming to Ashes because of the cash shop. In fact, many are turned off by it. But more people like the game more than they hate the cash shop. The FOMO nature of the shop isn't helping drive interest to the game for sure. It's one of the main points of contention for people who aren't fans of the game right now, but who otherwise might view it positively.

I want to incentivize purchase in the cosmetic shop for sustainability of what expansions we have intended, since we are not a box cost. I want to incentivize purchase by offering limited items: limited time, limited quantity, so you have confidence that when you purchase them, they won't be offered later on in some other way.

Steven is straight up saying he is using artificial scarcity to incentivize sales. That's textbook FOMO marketing. And it does work in the short term to generate sales usually. However, there is evidence to suggest it lowers loyalty and reduces repeat occurences. In other words, they are hurting themselves in the long term, even when it comes to the people who've bought a pack.

Human beings are super easy to manipulate. Trillions of dollars are spent each year to manipulate us, because it works. FOMO is one of the methods. Not everyone is affected by the same things, but we all are by something, without exception. I am sure many are not affected much by the Intrepid cash shop tactics. There are probably people reading this who are in complete denial about FOMO affecting them in general though, and you should know this: You are more easily manipulated when denying it affects you, than you are by recognizing it and making a conscious effort to resist it. Anyways, it's easy to look on google scholar and find more info on FOMO.

My main fear is they intend to keep using FOMO marketing in the cash shop after release, because I am convinced it will hurt the game compared to them not using those FOMO tactics, as per the study linked above. If they are serious about this game being fully funded already, and serious when they say "don't buy the packs", then I am sure there is a way that is less reviled by many than the current "pressure tactic-y" way, to use a Steven expression, they can do the cash shop cosmetics.

Vhaeyne

Nerror wrote: »

Come on now, the two are not mutually exclusive. People aren't coming to Ashes because of the cash shop. In fact, many are turned off by it. But more people like the game more than they hate the cash shop. The FOMO nature of the shop isn't helping drive interest to the game for sure. It's one of the main points of contention for people who aren't fans of the game right now, but who otherwise might view it positively.

It's like sure, fair enough.

Still, I can't help but think the Ashes model is not EA game's bad. If it was, I don't think Ashes would be growing. I have said in the past many times that philosophically I don't like cash shops of any kind. There is however a spectrum that goes from pure evil(Genshin Impact) to acceptable(Path of Exile).

Right now, many see POE as having the most acceptable cash shop in gaming. Well, POE has paid for convince in the form of "back space tabs". Ashes is pure cosmetic. POE also has all of its cosmetics look better than anything I have ever picked up in the game. Ashes is clearly better than what is already seen as the good guy in live services.

No box cost and cosmetic only is an insane amount of good will in my opinion. Asking for more just feels dirty. Especially when the risks of making an MMORPG are so high.

Gaul_

FOMO marketing is widely used in everyday life by businesses.

Mopy King

Nerror wrote: »

Steven is straight up saying he is using artificial scarcity to incentivize sales. That's textbook FOMO marketing. And it does work in the short term to generate sales usually. However, there is evidence to suggest it lowers loyalty and reduces repeat occurences. In other words, they are hurting themselves in the long term, even when it comes to the people who've bought a pack.

Human beings are super easy to manipulate. Trillions of dollars are spent each year to manipulate us, because it works. FOMO is one of the methods. Not everyone is affected by the same things, but we all are by something, without exception. I am sure many are not affected much by the Intrepid cash shop tactics. There are probably people reading this who are in complete denial about FOMO affecting them in general though, and you should know this: You are more easily manipulated when denying it affects you, than you are by recognizing it and making a conscious effort to resist it. Anyways, it's easy to look on google scholar and find more info on FOMO.

My main fear is they intend to keep using FOMO marketing in the cash shop after release, because I am convinced it will hurt the game compared to them not using those FOMO tactics, as per the study linked above. If they are serious about this game being fully funded already, and serious when they say "don't buy the packs", then I am sure there is a way that is less reviled by many than the current "pressure tactic-y" way, to use a Steven expression, they can do the cash shop cosmetics.

You're implying that the study is saying that people who give in to FOMO regret it and are less likely to do the same activity again when that's not at all what it's saying. The study essentially says that when people are doing something (attending summer school, working overtime, or at a museum) and they experience FOMO, that they are less likely to want to continue doing the activity they were currently doing.
Nothing mentioned in the study says that they participated in the activity that brought on the FOMO and then regretted it, so I feel that study has extremely minimal to no relevance to the ashes cash shop situation.

As for sticking with the same FOMO cash shop after release, I get why it's not great but I haven't seen any alternative I'd strongly prefer over the plan. The only preferable one is no cosmetic shop period, but that ship has long gone. Some alternatives:

-They could just permanently offer all offered cosmetics after release, but I think after a year or two the cash shop would start to look very bloated and seem like they are being greedy with how many cosmetics are being offered. A new player would be able to buy thousands of dollars worth of cosmetics right off the bat instead of being limited to say around $100 at a time.

-If they made the cosmetics still swap but not exclusive anymore I could be fine with that, but only if there were never any sales. Buying cosmetics and seeing them offered again later for way cheaper really sours the experience. Still wouldn't prefer this over the plan though.

I'll admit I'm pretty biased on the exclusives stuff though, as like Steven I really love having exclusive stuff.

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