Why should I continue to Support Intrepid Studios?

I ask my mentors like @BCG , perhaps @Jahlon , and @Lex why one should keep supporting Steven? Respectfully submitted not requiring Steven's answer. I am asking his Lieutenants. Please respond. Thank you.

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Birthday

Noaani wrote: »

Birthday wrote: »

What you are talking about isn't design. It's UX.

Don't assume things like this about people you do not know.

I don't give a shit about character customization. Not one little bit. Every one of my characters will be a default appearance - and I am fairly well on record on these forums for this opinion.

The reason it is a pointless design goal is because by the time players start equipping gear, the silhouette of races will fall by the wayside.

Why even have a design goal if that design goal ceases to be a thing the minute players get gear? Focus that attention elsewhere.

Why even have that design goal? Because having distinctive races is a big part of fantasy RPGs. If they make the races barely distinguishable from one another that makes for a poor fantasy RPG. If race options don't feel like choice of race matters visually then it defeats the purpose of having races.

Just because you play RPGs without regard to how your character model looks and how your race looks doesn't mean that's true for everyone. That's actually not true for a lot of people who play RPGs and it's especially not true for the role playing part of the community.

Noaani

Birthday wrote: »

Why even have that design goal? Because having distinctive races is a big part of fantasy RPGs.

I didn't say they shouldn't have distinct races, please don't insinuate or suggest that I said something unless I actually said the thing.

I said trying to have distinct silhouettes is a pointless design goal.

There is no reason at all why two races can't be distinguished purely via color palette, as an example.

Birthday

Noaani wrote: »

Birthday wrote: »

Why even have that design goal? Because having distinctive races is a big part of fantasy RPGs.

I didn't say they shouldn't have distinct races, please don't insinuate or suggest that I said something unless I actually said the thing.

I said trying to have distinct silhouettes is a pointless design goal.

There is no reason at all why two races can't be distinguished purely via color palette, as an example.

There is a reason. Same reason why Apple invested tons into making iPhone into a specific shape. Shape and thus inherently silhouette matters otherwise companies wouldn't be spending tons of money into these things. If it didn't matter then corporations wouldn't be spending the money to do it. They'd just find the most economical, in terms of money, shape and just color it different as per your suggestion but what you are saying isn't true and so they are forced to spend money not only on color but on shape as well in order to make their product stand out.

Anyway nice job derailing from the thread's original topic again Noaani the troll.

Birthday

Noaani wrote: »

Birthday wrote: »

There is a reason. Same reason why Apple invested tons into making iPhone into a specific shape.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if you were an Apple user - hope you enjoy using your product of modern slavery and systemic genocide, not to mention the abysmal environmental track record Apple have (lets make sure we use all cardboard packaging - in the computer we are sending out that is literally unable to be upgraded or repaired at all and so needs to be discarded at the first sign of fault or age!).

I never said companies shouldn't produce distinct items, nor even distinct silhouettes. I said it was a pointless design decision for Ashes to want distinct silhouettes for each race in Ashes.

You can't really compare that to anything else, because I am not saying anything else is pointless.

Edit; since this thread is a Skaff thread, it has no original topic.

Like you said before " please don't insinuate or suggest that I said something unless I actually said the thing."

I am not an apple user. Never had anything Apple.

Yes I can make those comparisons between what I said and what other companies are doing with their product because in the end Intrepid is a company, it's creating a product and just like any product it's sales depend on everything including it's visual esthetics. So yea distinct silhouettes being part of esthetics is a good design goal because the easier it is to recognize your product the easier it'll be for people to remember it, not to mention it'll be easier to advertise.

The thread has a topic and it's was easily recognized by the first 11 replies, excluding yours which again was aimed at derailing the topic.

Noaani wrote: »

I have to ask... what did he do to get kicked off Discord?

The topic is obviously "Reasons why to continue to support Intrepid Studios".

You are obviously a troll.

Noaani

Birthday wrote: »

Like you said before " please don't insinuate or suggest that I said something unless I actually said the thing."

I said I wouldn't be surprised if. I didn't say that you said you were.

Once again, you just said that I said something that I did not actually say.

If you want to go on about other products by other companies in other industries, have at it, I guess. I am unsure who you are in a discussion with at that point, because I am just saying that Intrepid wanting to make the races in Ashes have unique silhouettes is a pointless design decision - I don't much care about those other companies or their products.

BlackBrony

At this point I believe Noaani just wants a speadsheet simulator instead of a game.

Noaani

BlackBrony wrote: »

At this point I believe Noaani just wants a speadsheet simulator instead of a game.

Why would you think that?

Birthday

BlackBrony wrote: »

At this point I believe Noaani just wants a speadsheet simulator instead of a game.

hahahahaha nice one. You got it quite right.

Noaani wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

At this point I believe Noaani just wants a speadsheet simulator instead of a game.

Why would you think that?

Jokes aside you Noaani are either a very very top-end hardcore competitive player and care mostly about the parts that are vital to top-end competitive players or don't understand simple things like the fact that a lot players nowadays still base their decision on whether to buy a game or not on if the game is visually appealing to them.

Distinct silhouettes are part of that and also like I said they help with product recognizability and marketing. So if you are a top-end player I admire your zeal but in the end it's not top-end hardcore players that keep a game alive. It's the casuals due to them being the majority. So Intrepid has to make the game desireable and marketable for them too.

TrUSivraj

Birthday wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

At this point I believe Noaani just wants a speadsheet simulator instead of a game.

hahahahaha nice one. You got it quite right.

Noaani wrote: »

BlackBrony wrote: »

At this point I believe Noaani just wants a speadsheet simulator instead of a game.

Why would you think that?

Jokes aside you Noaani are either a very very top-end hardcore competitive player and care mostly about the parts that are vital to top-end competitive players or don't understand simple things like the fact that a lot players nowadays still base their decision on whether to buy a game or not on if the game is visually appealing to them.

Distinct silhouettes are part of that and also like I said they help with product recognizability and marketing. So if you are a top-end player I admire your zeal but in the end it's not top-end hardcore players that keep a game alive. It's the casuals due to them being the majority. So Intrepid has to make the game desireable and marketable for them too.

To add to this, I am apparently a rare gamer species, "The Hardcore Casual"? My main goal will be to become the top 1% of PvPers (and one of the good ones that'll protect you, not kill you! ;D) I did this in the MMO before this, and honestly don't feel that motivation and drive would've existed if the game didn't look/play good and my character didn't standout in some way, skill alone got me noticed, but my character is what people recognized even when I'm idle.

I get nameplates are a thing, but when you see someone wearing the same set of their favorite gear/costume/hairstyle/pose/mount/pet all the time, you start to see that character as the player themselves without even needing to read the name, and I love that in mmos.

Keeping this response post relevant, I'd keep supporting the game specifically because even without them having launched yet, I personally already have a rare, distinct, and visually appealing look for my character and their accessories (mount/pet/etc.) To look forward to, that will allow players to recognize me as a player and not just a character the moment i log in for the first time and make myself known ( vine vestment costume exclusive for a pyrai elf).

As to better explain the "hard-core casual" bit, I'm someone who loves competitive pvp, but also loves to get lost in the world I'm in through activities and roleplay. I don't ignore any part of the game and respect casuals and hard-cores alike, because I fully understand you need BOTH for an mmo to thrive.

Sylvanar

Lets say IS achieves "distinct silhouettes" for every race. Now you equip any gear and the silhouette changes. As a character you will be wearing gear from the moment you login till the end of time. Considering the PvP nature of the game, players won't ever remove their gear and roam around cuz of the fear of being killed without being able to do anything. Hence, the "distinct silhouettes" thing becomes moot from level 1 itself.

High level gear having distinct silhouettes is entirely reasonable. But I cant imagine a scenario where I am only able to see the silhouette of a person and not their color, except for maybe when a rogue is employing stealth as Steven has said that stealth wouldn't completely make someone invisible.

Tbh implementing distinct silhouettes for every race is a relatively simple thing but its real application wouldn't be in game but rather in the cinematics which will be made as part of the lore of Verra.

TrUSivraj wrote: »

you start to see that character as the player themselves without even needing to read the name, and I love that in mmos.

Considering the level of uniqueness possible, I am pretty sure this is implicit in AoC.

Shoelid

Noaani wrote: »

unknownsystemerror wrote: »

"Recognizable silhouette for all races" was also given as a reason.

As a design goal, I do have to say this is one of the most pointless I have ever seen.

Noaani wrote: »

Birthday wrote: »

What you are talking about isn't design. It's UX.

Don't assume things like this about people you do not know.

I don't give a shit about character customization. Not one little bit. Every one of my characters will be a default appearance - and I am fairly well on record on these forums for this opinion.

The reason it is a pointless design goal is because by the time players start equipping gear, the silhouette of races will fall by the wayside.

Why even have a design goal if that design goal ceases to be a thing the minute players get gear? Focus that attention elsewhere.

Ehhhh idk from what I've seen "recognizable silhouette" is a pretty common design goal. And my understanding is that the point of a silhouette is to be recognizable even after players start equipping gear. An orc and a dwarf will look different no matter what gear they wear. That design goal wont "cease to be a thing the minute players get gear" because the Py'Rai horns will stick through any helmet they put on.

I think players like you who don't care about character appearance create all the more reason to have unique race silhouettes, so that a bunch of characters in full BIS don't all look the same like in OSRS.

Noaani

Birthday wrote: »

a lot players nowadays still base their decision on whether to buy a game or not on if the game is visually appealing to them.

Where did I say to not make the game visually appealing?

I said that each race having a unique silhouette is a pointless design goal.

If you want to talk about appealing to players vs not appealing to them, what you don't do is put horns on your wood elves.

Noaani

Shoelid wrote: »

Ehhhh idk from what I've seen "recognizable silhouette" is a pretty common design goal. And my understanding is that the point of a silhouette is to be recognizable even after players start equipping gear. An orc and a dwarf will look different no matter what gear they wear. That design goal wont "cease to be a thing the minute players get gear" because the Py'Rai horns will stick through any helmet they put on.

I think players like you who don't care about character appearance create all the more reason to have unique race silhouettes, so that a bunch of characters in full BIS don't all look the same like in OSRS.

Having the base race (Orcs Elves, Dwarves and Humans) all have specific and unique silhouettes is great - it would happen with normal development. Having a design goal that requires each of the two human races to require a different silhouette, each of the Elven races to have a different silhouette etc - this is a pointless design goal.

As to your point about the horns showing through helms - consider a look like Wrath's Legacy. Are Py'Rai going to have two sets of horns now? How distinct is their silhouette going to be when standing next to an Empyrean wearing this set?

Shoelid

Noaani wrote: »

Shoelid wrote: »

Ehhhh idk from what I've seen "recognizable silhouette" is a pretty common design goal. And my understanding is that the point of a silhouette is to be recognizable even after players start equipping gear. An orc and a dwarf will look different no matter what gear they wear. That design goal wont "cease to be a thing the minute players get gear" because the Py'Rai horns will stick through any helmet they put on.

I think players like you who don't care about character appearance create all the more reason to have unique race silhouettes, so that a bunch of characters in full BIS don't all look the same like in OSRS.

Having the base race (Orcs Elves, Dwarves and Humans) all have specific and unique silhouettes is great - it would happen with normal development. Having a design goal that requires each of the two human races to require a different silhouette, each of the Elven races to have a different silhouette etc - this is a pointless design goal.

As to your point about the horns showing through helms - consider a look like Wrath's Legacy. Are Py'Rai going to have two sets of horns now? How distinct is their silhouette going to be when standing next to an Empyrean wearing this set?

To be clear, the silhouettes don't have to be super unique. My expectation is that the human races and the Empyrean elves will likely look very similar to each other. Other races might look similar depending on how they're customized/the armor they're wearing. I'd actually thought about the Wrath's Legacy set with the Py'Rai. What about the Muscarian Marshals set? I don't know whether or not horns should show through either of those sets. Personally, I would have horn show through Wrath's Legacy and not through Muscarian Marshals. Point being, I agree that doing things blindly in the name of the "design goal" would be dumb.

IMO, there's a sweet spot with how many races look similar, and I think the horned wood elves lets them hit it. The humans should look largely the same. The Empyrean are shaping up to look just like humans, too. I think that adding a fourth race to the lookalike gang would be a tad too much. The Py'Rai sprouting horns sets them apart, even if they might conditionally look similar. I expect the Vek to be similar. With a full set of armor and a face-covering helmet, you probably couldn't tell the difference.

I'm aware many people dislike the Py'Rai design but I'm pretty happy with it. Probably because I never got into Everquest/Neverwinter.

Noaani

Shoelid wrote: »

Point being, I agree that doing things blindly in the name of the "design goal" would be dumb.

IMO, design each race as each race should be, and if two of them end up with the same silhouette, who actually cares?

There are so many other means to differentiate a race (color palette, lore, stats, abilities, even runes or some such).

There's just no need for it.

unknown

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Karthos

Send your money to me. I'm saving up to buy a sweet dune buggy.

Veeshan

didnt have an issue with horned woodelfs in crowfall, sooo im not gonna have an issue with them in ashes

Also arnt there 2 elves arnt empyream more traditional looking elfs just go them if u want a traditional elf its good to have options here if you dont like traditional elfs u have these one for a different look and so on.

Humans we have europeans/Arabs
"Dwarfs" we have drawfs and halfings/gnomes (Atleast thats whay they remind me of)
"Orcs" we get orcs and trolls
Elfs we get high elfs and wood elfs (or horned elfs depends on how u see it ive played game where the woodelfs get horns so thats why they resemble woodelfs for me)

2 species of the "Same race" with exception of humans are all quite a bit different although with humans not much you can do to humans to make them very different from eachother and still be seen as human :P

daveywavey

skafftaruss wrote: »

I ask my mentors like @BCG , perhaps @Jahlon , and @Lex why one should keep supporting Steven? Respectfully submitted not requiring Steven's answer. I am asking his Lieutenants. Please respond. Thank you.

You shouldn't. The rest of us should. Have a nice life!

RazThemun

Considering the amount of Money steven and company has.... they do not need your support as an individual. Either pay to support or don't game will launch either way

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