Threat assessment with cosmetics

This discussion was created from comments split from: Sub price, cosmetic shop and alternative rules server..

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Lithion wrote: »

I'm not super knowledgeable on the topic, but do we know if they have said if we can have a setting to turn off other peoples cosmetics or not? I thought i remember them mentioning it in one of the livestreams. Like enable a setting so you see everyone's actual armor instead of skins... But then with transmog and stuff i feel like that wouldn't work either, and people wouldn't like that haha

I looked through the wiki again but I couldn’t find any direct quotes stating they wouldn’t.

This is the closest thing I could find in remotely speaking about removing cosmetics:

A "default player appearance" may be automatically applied during sieges or other large scale battles to improve client-side performance.[107][108]

I’m sure some people would be upset about their transmog/costumes being disabled but it might be the correct way to silence the people who would claim cosmetics are p2w.

I’m on the side that an indicator displaying the most prominent gear type is a quicker way to assess gear type than looking at someone so I feel like it would be a option that wouldn’t actually effect either side negatively.

Sylvanar

HumblePuffin wrote: »

I’m on the side that an indicator displaying the most prominent gear type is a quicker way to assess gear type than looking at someone so I feel like it would be a option that wouldn’t actually effect either side negatively.

At the moment we know that the nameplate would display the name and class combination name. Since I don't want it to display too much information without it being an active inspection by players and how transmogs are going to cover the gears in their entirety (I didn't know this would be a thing), one way I think this can be achieved is by highlighting the nameplate by different colors depending on the primary gear type.

Ex: Plate wearers nameplate has silver border, Cloth wearers nameplate has green border and Leather wearers nameplate has red border. Well something of this sort.

Information conveyed and no extra clutter.

HumblePuffin

Sylvanar wrote: »

, one way I think this can be achieved is by highlighting the nameplate by different colors depending on the primary gear type.

Ex: Plate wearers nameplate has silver border, Cloth wearers nameplate has green border and Leather wearers nameplate has red border. Well something of this sort.

Information conveyed and no extra clutter.

I really like that. They will have an indicator in some way for most prominent gear type worn, as confirmed by Steven’s comments on such, but I always imagined a little buff/circle next to their name plate that represented it. I like outline of your name plate idea more though.

I really hope they are going to go ham on our UI flexibility so maybe make it a choice which version to use if it’s difficult for colorblind folks to have the colors.

SirChancelot

HumblePuffin wrote: »

Sylvanar wrote: »

, one way I think this can be achieved is by highlighting the nameplate by different colors depending on the primary gear type.

Ex: Plate wearers nameplate has silver border, Cloth wearers nameplate has green border and Leather wearers nameplate has red border. Well something of this sort.

Information conveyed and no extra clutter.

I really like that. They will have an indicator in some way for most prominent gear type worn, as confirmed by Steven’s comments on such, but I always imagined a little buff/circle next to their name plate that represented it. I like outline of your name plate idea more though.

I really hope they are going to go ham on our UI flexibility so maybe make it a choice which version to use if it’s difficult for colorblind folks to have the colors.

It is up on the wiki from Steven that the UI is supposed to be super customizable.

But I have to agree that the threat indication should be visible on the name plate not just gear.

I'm hoping they have the ability to hide pieces like helms, capes, maybe chest pieces to show off those body tattoos. And that would throw off the threat assessment even more than having a cosmetic outfit in my opinion.

Okeydoke

There is just nothing that beats the natural system of threat assessment which involves looking at a target and assessing based on what they're wearing.

But that's not in the cards for Ashes. I really like your idea Sylvanar, can't think of any drawbacks and it would make the problem better. Good idea.

Dygz

There's nothing "natural" about threat assessment based on clothing.
Especially in a setting where thieves/rogues and spies and illusionists are common.

Heartbeat

Cosmetics could be disabled in certain activities that would require visual identification of someones strength in order to asses the situation better.

For example cosmetics would be disabled by the game automatically during any sort of pvp activity that way you're not trying to guess what the enemy player is playing/wearing/wielding so you can react accordingly.

This is just something that will need to be addressed by intrepid later down the road.

Noaani

HumblePuffin wrote: »

I looked through the wiki again but I couldn’t find any direct quotes stating they wouldn’t.

Yeah, while the wiki is great to get people familiar with the game in general, it absolutely does not contain every statement about the game from Intrepid.

The discussion about it happened on these forums (or perhaps the old forums, or even the old old forums) and Intrepid basically said that if you pay to have your character look a specific way, that is how others will see your character.

This is the discussion that lead to Intrepid first talking about the icon to identify armor type, so it was a long time ago.

While things do change in game development, I can not see them changing this. As much as I think we should be able to see players basic gear type by just looking at them, I fully understand why Intrepid would want people to know that others will see their character the way they have paid to display it.

This absolutely does leave things open for in game cosmetics to be restricted to the same base item type, but if costumes from the store don't follow this, there is no real point to that.

Arguably though, Intrepid would be better served by allowing in game cosmetics to be applied to any item type of the same slot - otherwise store cosmetics have a definite (albeit small) actual in game benefit to them that can't be found any other way.

HumblePuffin

Noaani wrote: »

*snip*

I don’t doubt it was said, just curious if you had a quote somewhere about it. I know it’s my personal standard as far as AoC information goes and can’t expect others to feel the same, but if it’s not on the wiki somewhere I’m far more likely to assume it is an unknown.

Steven has definitely said some random off the cuff stuff when let loose into the environment. Margaret joining the team was such a positive addition to help lessen that.

Atama

HumblePuffin wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

*snip*

I don’t doubt it was said, just curious if you had a quote somewhere about it. I know it’s my personal standard as far as AoC information goes and can’t expect others to feel the same, but if it’s not on the wiki somewhere I’m far more likely to assume it is an unknown.

Steven has definitely said some random off the cuff stuff when let loose into the environment. Margaret joining the team was such a positive addition to help lessen that.

I searched through the forums and I've found hints but no quotes. It may have been a livestream Q&A if it was somewhere, but I'm not sure which one. I found that someone asked about it for the March 26, 2021 Q&A but I haven't looked it up to see if there was an answer.

bloodprophet

53ish minutes in. In regards to turning off cosmetics.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=54m10s&v=KtVUiS7yAHE&feature=youtu.be

HumblePuffin

bloodprophet wrote: »

53ish minutes in. In regards to turning off cosmetics.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=54m10s&v=KtVUiS7yAHE&feature=youtu.be

Thank you thank you! Noaani seemed sure so I figured it had to be somewhere. I feel much better discussing with that question answered.

bloodprophet

HumblePuffin wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

53ish minutes in. In regards to turning off cosmetics.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=54m10s&v=KtVUiS7yAHE&feature=youtu.be

Thank you thank you! Noaani seemed sure so I figured it had to be somewhere. I feel much better discussing with that question answered.

Your welcome. Took a minute as it is hidden under another link on the pvp page.

Noaani

HumblePuffin wrote: »

bloodprophet wrote: »

53ish minutes in. In regards to turning off cosmetics.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=54m10s&v=KtVUiS7yAHE&feature=youtu.be

Thank you thank you! Noaani seemed sure so I figured it had to be somewhere. I feel much better discussing with that question answered.

To be fair, I am the first to say "find the first party source" rather than listening to anyone. Myself included.

I just don't have the time to go hunting for it myself. In fact, my time is so short (or, more specifically, my time is always being used to perform multiple tasks) that I've not listened to the above link as yet, and am just assuming it is the discussion I remember - or at least the livestream part of the forum discussion I remember.

The part that annoys me is that while I do want to see armor types in game, I do agree with his reasoning. This is why I consider the icon thing to be a middle ground rather than anything else.

I'm not happy about it, but I also don't have a better solution based on the parameters.

HumblePuffin

Noaani wrote: »

*snip*.

To paraphrase, ‘no there will not be an option to turn off player cosmetics, the default character appearance will only be used and present in activities that may be taxing on performance’.

So as of now, you are correct in that option not being on the table as a solution.

Tbh I don’t know how I feel about that which is why I didn’t continue the discussion. There’s a big part of me that views cosmetics/transmog as just something for myself to enjoy my character more so I personally don’t care if there’s an option to turn them off. Fashion in games isn’t as big of a deal to me or my circle of people I play with, but I also don’t know many people I play with that distain cosmetics either.

That just puts me at this ‘meh’ point with the topic. The only horse I have in this race is to not split up the populations into different server types.

Noaani

HumblePuffin wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

*snip*.

To paraphrase, ‘no there will not be an option to turn off player cosmetics, the default character appearance will only be used and present in activities that may be taxing on performance’.

So as of now, you are correct in that option not being on the table as a solution.

Tbh I don’t know how I feel about that which is why I didn’t continue the discussion. There’s a big part of me that views cosmetics/transmog as just something for myself to enjoy my character more so I personally don’t care if there’s an option to turn them off. Fashion in games isn’t as big of a deal to me or my circle of people I play with, but I also don’t know many people I play with that distain cosmetics either.

That just puts me at this ‘meh’ point with the topic. The only horse I have in this race is to not split up the populations into different server types.

Yep, that's the reply I remember.

If your major concern is not splitting up the population, you can be rest assured that this won't happen, as any alternate ruleset server has also been completely shut down.

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