Balancing guilds with solo play

I have seen a lot about the exciting guild incentives and mechanics planned for AOC which I am all for. My only concern is that this may require an environment whereby you HAVE to align yourself with a guild to be relevant in the game. Personally as a solo player I'm of the opinion that joining a guild should always be out of choice, not necessity. In which ways do you think solo play can be balanced so that solo players/small teams of friends can still choose this path?

One idea I propose is that solo players could carry out as questline to become a mercenary. Mercenaries would be neutral alignment but could be hired by guilds to assist in seiges and bosses etc. This way solo players are not gated away from content but likewise are still able to enjoy soloplay when they choose to.

Just as guilds can acquire reputation, so could mercenaries. At higher reputation levels your price as a mercanary would automatically increase. Reputation would be based on successful "missions"(hires) and feedback from guild seniors (e.g. a simple rating system).

Just as there will be a leaderboard for guilds, there could be s leaderboard for mercenaries. Perhaps this system would be tied to military nodes.

What are your thoughts?

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derp

CROW3 wrote: »

I'll be in a guild with people I like playing with, and will still solo like 70% of the time. Solo play and guild association are not mutually exclusive.

Maybe I just had a bad experience with guilds in the past. My guilds were always hyper competitive and it turns playing a game for fun into a full-time job (less fun)

derp

NiKr wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

I'll be in a guild with people I like playing with, and will still solo like 70% of the time. Solo play and guild association are not mutually exclusive.

And I've known a ton of guild that never made their members do anything they didn't want. What they did do is help out each other way faster than you would've gotten help from some rando in chat.

Some's PKing you while you're out and about alone? Ask someone in the guild to help out. You're having problems crafting smth? Ask someone in the guild to help. You wanna fight some small boss? Same shit. All it takes is just finding a guild that'll be good for your playstyle.

Again - not against guilds, just don't want it forced upon me

Ludullu

derp wrote: »

Why is this good? :S 1v1 PvP can be the most exciting PvP. Again mass PvP will be really fun but why should it not be viable for solo player to 1v1 a guild player?

The whole game will be group-balanced. Most likely you won't enjoy 1v1 pvp because there'll be classes that will annihilate you even w/o guild skills.

derp wrote: »

Again - not against guilds, just don't want it forced upon me

Yeah, and you already have a choice. You play alone and have limited solo content or you play in a guild as the game was designed and meant to be played and you enjoy all of the content.

derp

NiKr wrote: »

derp wrote: »

Why is this good? :S 1v1 PvP can be the most exciting PvP. Again mass PvP will be really fun but why should it not be viable for solo player to 1v1 a guild player?

The whole game will be group-balanced. Most likely you won't enjoy 1v1 pvp because there'll be classes that will annihilate you even w/o guild skills.

derp wrote: »

Again - not against guilds, just don't want it forced upon me

Yeah, and you already have a choice. You play alone and have limited solo content or you play in a guild as the game was designed and meant to be played and you enjoy all of the content.

Do you think there will be any solo content? Some of my best experiences have been solo pve. Again, I know I'm harping on about solo stuff but I do love group content too. I'm only asking about solo stuff because I think it's important to have variety in gameplay

Ludullu

derp wrote: »

Do you think there will be any solo content? Some of my best experiences have been solo pve. Again, I know I'm harping on about solo stuff but I do love group content too. I'm only asking about solo stuff because I think it's important to have variety in gameplay

There'll be some solo mobs. Probably 50+% of the artisan profession could be done solo. But you won't be killing bosses, you won't win against stronger players in pvp. You most likely won't be able to defend your caravan alone. And even the artisan stuff will still require you to cooperate with other people because you'll need other professions to support you or other people to defend you if you decide to gather some rare resources alone.

Oh, and those solo mobs won't give you BiS and I highly doubt they'd give you pre-top either. This is an oldschool mmo that requires you to participate in social structures in the game. If everyone could just farm their shit solo - why would they be social?

Dygz

derp wrote: »

I think this approach would be a mistake

Liniker exaggerates greatly.
Ashes supports solo play.
Of course, solo is not the same thing as not being social - it just means you are adventuring while not joined systemically to a group.

It is possible to kill bosses while not joined systemically to a group.
It's also possible to acquire BiS gear, in several ways, without being joined systemically to a group.
Solo does not mean you do not have friends who will help you acquire BiS gear.

Mag7spy

Otr wrote: »

derp wrote: »

Otr wrote: »

I think being in a guild should offer advantages. And well organized guilds should have advantages over the weakly bound ones.
However if solo players forfeit those benefits, they should be able to survive.
But solo players should not demand to be able to fully experience all aspects of the game. Is like telling developers to not add content specific for guilds.

I'm not against guild content but they're talking about straight up stat buffs via enchantments and stuff. The moment this happens it makes it impossible for a solo/small team to be viable in PvP/pve, therefore making it MANDATORY to be in a guild.

What other benefits or game content would you give to a guild?

Literally nothing just wants the benefits of being in the guild for whatever amount of time, some reward and prob helps in some form of pvp.

derp wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

I'll be in a guild with people I like playing with, and will still solo like 70% of the time. Solo play and guild association are not mutually exclusive.

And I've known a ton of guild that never made their members do anything they didn't want. What they did do is help out each other way faster than you would've gotten help from some rando in chat.

Some's PKing you while you're out and about alone? Ask someone in the guild to help out. You're having problems crafting smth? Ask someone in the guild to help. You wanna fight some small boss? Same shit. All it takes is just finding a guild that'll be good for your playstyle.

Again - not against guilds, just don't want it forced upon me

Joining a guild isn't forced you will just have a ton of negatives if you don't. If you have a bad experience with a guild then join another guild it isn't hard to do that. Not everyone guild is try hard, but if you are joining a top guild that gives you a insane amount of perks and you don't want to do any kind of group things to help them its not surprising if one gets a boot.

You simply need to join a guild that is at your level with your play style.

As for me my guild will 100% have discord as mandatory as well as voice chat, because its easier to form groups and do things together and have fun. As well as how important it will be for pvp sieges. Besides that people are free to do whatever they want and people naturally group up and do content with each other when people are within voice and guild.

I understand being introverted because I am as well, but just because you are in a guild and in discord doesn't mean you need to talk much or be forced to do much. People simply want people to hang out around so the hard content is do able and have fun together. Elite guilds are trash though that force heavy things on you because they deem its effective / meta.

Dygz

Anyway... to answer the OP...
There will be some small, casual guilds that don't require members to do stuff - if you want guild perks.
Might be possible that Social Orgs or Religions will have something like your proposed Mercenary mechanic.
Might also be able to do something like that via Taverns.

George_Black

I disagree.
I dislike mmos where guild membership is optional, like eso and ff14.
I have completed anything I set my mind to do so in those games without joining a guild. It was boring. It was ez.

People should join a guild out of necessity. That would mean that the game has depth.

Mmos are not for solo players. People can play solo. The systems should not be for solo.
Ffs...

Dygz

If you dislike Ashes, don't play.

Mag7spy

Dygz wrote: »

If you dislike Ashes, don't play.

I agree if you don't like a game with a focus on guilds and social elements don't play ~~

Sarcasm off.

Its simply about managing expectations, if you don't want to do any kind of group content and guilds you will have less content for you. Forcing single player elements on having things scale to a solo experience or enjoying perks from guilds without having a big reason for it isn't going to make the game better, it take away from the content.

SirChancelot

Karthos wrote: »

"I don't want to be social in a game that at it's central core requires the players to interact with others and be social".

I've never understood what people with this mentality even see when they look at an MMO, what makes them want to play a game that basically all but REQUIRES you to get involved with other people, group up, be social, rely on other players, ect. There's other games that will cater to this style of game play much better, we don't need to water down games to accommodate these confused people.

Maybe you just don't want to play MMORPGs.... This is like going to a Mexican Restaurant and saying "I don't like Mexican food, please make me a hamburger".

I hear Bethesda is releasing Elder Scrolls 6 soon-ish, and I'm sure you can probably play Skyrim on your Apple Watch here soon.

I think you're missing the intent
Because some people love MMOs but their life doesn't allow for the regularity that some guilds want from members.
I want to be social and play when I can, but I'm not reliable to always be there for the group...

Personally I'd love to see some sort of system for this, either as a merc guild. Or through job boards in nodes.

Dygz

Or just don't join a group or a guild and still enjoy Ashes - since Ashes game design already supports that playstyle.
Solo play is not synonymus with singe-player - especially not in Ashes - since everything we do in the game contributes to Node progression.

Ludullu

SirChancelot wrote: »

Because some people love MMOs but their life doesn't allow for the regularity that some guilds want from members.
I want to be social and play when I can, but I'm not reliable to always be there for the group...

Find another guild? It's not like there's a single damn guild on the server. And even if you can't find a guild like that, make a guild like that. And then find people who play the same way you do. Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.

What I don't understand is coming to a game that doesn't appeal to your playstyle and instead of trying to adapt to its gameplay, you instead ask the whole damn game to change to your preference. I find that quite selfish.

Karthos

SirChancelot wrote: »

Karthos wrote: »

"I don't want to be social in a game that at it's central core requires the players to interact with others and be social".

I've never understood what people with this mentality even see when they look at an MMO, what makes them want to play a game that basically all but REQUIRES you to get involved with other people, group up, be social, rely on other players, ect. There's other games that will cater to this style of game play much better, we don't need to water down games to accommodate these confused people.

Maybe you just don't want to play MMORPGs.... This is like going to a Mexican Restaurant and saying "I don't like Mexican food, please make me a hamburger".

I hear Bethesda is releasing Elder Scrolls 6 soon-ish, and I'm sure you can probably play Skyrim on your Apple Watch here soon.

I think you're missing the intent
Because some people love MMOs but their life doesn't allow for the regularity that some guilds want from members.
I want to be social and play when I can, but I'm not reliable to always be there for the group...

Personally I'd love to see some sort of system for this, either as a merc guild. Or through job boards in nodes.

I'm really not missing any intent. There's just some things you can't engage in given your life style, or the choices you've made for your life.

I'll never be a deep sea welder. I've made choices that would no longer allow me to have the time or physical ability to be welding deep at sea.

Now, do I just accept this and move on with my life, and try other activities that I do have the lifestyle for? Or do I demand they make deep sea welding more accessible to me by bringing it to the surface, sticking it on dry land, and alter it from welding to sanding?

Mag7spy

SirChancelot wrote: »

Karthos wrote: »

"I don't want to be social in a game that at it's central core requires the players to interact with others and be social".

I've never understood what people with this mentality even see when they look at an MMO, what makes them want to play a game that basically all but REQUIRES you to get involved with other people, group up, be social, rely on other players, ect. There's other games that will cater to this style of game play much better, we don't need to water down games to accommodate these confused people.

Maybe you just don't want to play MMORPGs.... This is like going to a Mexican Restaurant and saying "I don't like Mexican food, please make me a hamburger".

I hear Bethesda is releasing Elder Scrolls 6 soon-ish, and I'm sure you can probably play Skyrim on your Apple Watch here soon.

I think you're missing the intent
Because some people love MMOs but their life doesn't allow for the regularity that some guilds want from members.
I want to be social and play when I can, but I'm not reliable to always be there for the group...

Personally I'd love to see some sort of system for this, either as a merc guild. Or through job boards in nodes.

Why having a system for Mercing is bad for a mmorpg.

1. Mercing is already a thing within a mmorpg without needing it, you form alliances, you talk to people, make deals if you need to do such, talk to other guilds and groups.
2. Having a Merc system is a casual element that simply allows people to be solo while at times gaining the perks of a guild. Having more incentive for people to stay as solo and not join guilds does not help the overall social economy
3. It doesn't tie any risk or responsibility to the players as they jump into pvp attacking places and people without having consequences for themselves (ie if you are part of a siege or pvp someone, people often remembers your guild)
4. System toxic people often use because they cause issues for other people and can't stay in a guild.
5. Rather then pushing people to form guilds and getting into a good one (hopefully at some point) it further pushes them to stay solo and not interact with people. This also can be harmful to smaller guilds having a harder time to recruit more people with a large pool preferring to stay solo rather then experience a more fitting guild.
6. Solo players don't add as much interesting content as guilds and would reduce the amount of meaningful guilds, the drama, fun times, and good content that comes with it all.
7. Guilds can try to use the merc system to destroy guilds for their own benefit and get additional rewards. It can be used in a good amount of ways (in a bad sense)

Mag7spy

Long story short this is what I see.

Mmorpg with millions of players, and out of every single person and group I can't work any single one so ima just play solo.

-___-

superhero6785

Your Node Citizenship will honestly be more important than any Guild. You are by no means required to join a guild to enjoy all that Ashes has to offer. Now, you likely WILL need to play in a group from time to time as the game will be balanced for parties, not solo, so you may find some content difficult (or impossible) completely solo.

SirChancelot

I've said this before on a different thread. The reason I would want an adventures guild or mercenary guild where I can join in and work with different guilds is because I don't want to settle down in a specific node.
I play MMOs to explore and see different things. So something that allows me to go to a different continent and sell my services as a body guard or something while I'm there sounds like it belongs in the game.

But maybe there will be a way to run a world wide guild or something? so if the game doesn't have the function, someone can make a guild to fill in the missing spot.

CROW3

Karthos wrote: »

I'll never be a deep sea welder. I've made choices that would no longer allow me to have the time or physical ability to be welding deep at sea.

There's a whole stand-up routine somewhere in the wings there...

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