Guild/node should be tied to accounts

I feel being in a guild as well as a citizen in a node should be tied to an account akin to how black desert online does it. Since guilds will have limited slots it will make it more fair swapping between your alts as they will all be in the game guild if one joins it. Else you get the issue with people in a bunch of different guilds if they start having alt characters without being able to grow a unique community in the guild and it just turning into a bunch of alts in a single guild. Rather then making multiple guilds for alts it will be easier to manage in one so communities can more easily grow.

Also think if you can be in multiple guilds that cause some issues with people trying to use that to their advantage on being apart of a larger guild but then create smaller guilds for the buffs they can get to boost their character so they have more of an advantage in fights. So have their alt run a smaller guild and their main in the small guild for the boost. As well as the node system when it comes to voting for people and just being able to have a bunch of alts vote you in to being mayor of a node.

If you are going to be in a guild and node you shouldn't be able to make a character and be apart of every guild and every node on the map to use it to your advantage. If you are committing to node and guilds it should be account wise.

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Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

Not everyone will think like that with smaller more casual guilds. Yes top tier guilds will only try to get the best and committed members. This helps the smaller guilds by having people that will stay with them and give them a fair chance atleast. Then smaller guild being more so like dead leaves full of a bunch of random alt characters that don't care about their guild. But they just take whatever they get since they don't have much choice. It just create more of overall importance on the guild you are apart of since you can only be in one. This isn't stopping you from doing whatever you want its just making a more lively guild system.

And a small guild that doesn't care about being super strict about their memebers won't care that one of their members doesn't play 10h every day. And they won't be spied on because they're just a small/casual guild.

What would happen though is the owner of that alt can just relax with another group of people w/o worrying about constantly doing smth beneficial to the guild. And those who care about spying, can still do so.

In other words, you're limiting player choice while not providing any benefits with this change. What it would provide though is more toxicity in hardcore guilds. I can already see smth like "I see you have a crafting alt. Why are you not crafting stuff for free for the guild? Wtf man?!" or "I see you have a healer alt. Have you maxxed it out yet? We gonna need it for the next raid cause we already have enough of your main class. Go do it asap".

Mag7spy

bloodprophet wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Not a fan. I want the freedom to play my alts differently, which includes different guilds. I don't see any advantage to an account being locked into a guild.

Who said anything about your individual advantage? How can you ever examine an idea when this is your starting point?

The advantage is the health of the guild system.

Collectivism over individuality never wins.
Why should players be forced to join a guild?
Why should Intrepid abandon a stated game play choice by forcing people into a guild?

As for your other comment reading comprehension and understanding are not really that hard.
Read the multi-box thread on the wiki and watch the videos. It is not about multiple games on multiple computers. It is about multiple games running at the same time on the same computer.

Alts are alts weather they are on the same account or a different one.
Lots of people run multiple accounts from one machine.

Red hearing argument, multiboxing is multiboxing. If you are spending money on another account to by pass systems that is you. That is not something most people do stop trying to use that in a argument, you aren't being smart. There is a reason why you can only be a citizen on more then one node which is good to hear, which means if you are buying a bunch of accounts to try to influence that it be a red flag to me

Ferryman

I have tried to think this and because citizenship will be account bound that takes care of issues related to acting at several nodes at the same time. However, I do not see a reason why characters freedom of choise should be restricted especially if spying is an intended feature. If I mirror this to Albion and Fractured MMOs. Either one is not restricting which guild I can join with my characters. Fractured uses account bound citizenship feature if your characters are from same planet and therefore, has similar approach as Ashes. If there is no serious downsides to join different guilds then I would value player's freedom of choise much more. I am not sure if I have played a single MMORPG where my characters would been forced to be in one guild.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Not everyone will think like that with smaller more casual guilds. Yes top tier guilds will only try to get the best and committed members. This helps the smaller guilds by having people that will stay with them and give them a fair chance atleast. Then smaller guild being more so like dead leaves full of a bunch of random alt characters that don't care about their guild. But they just take whatever they get since they don't have much choice. It just create more of overall importance on the guild you are apart of since you can only be in one. This isn't stopping you from doing whatever you want its just making a more lively guild system.

And a small guild that doesn't care about being super strict about their memebers won't care that one of their members doesn't play 10h every day. And they won't be spied on because they're just a small/casual guild.

What would happen though is the owner of that alt can just relax with another group of people w/o worrying about constantly doing smth beneficial to the guild. And those who care about spying, can still do so.

In other words, you're limiting player choice while not providing any benefits with this change. What it would provide though is more toxicity in hardcore guilds. I can already see smth like "I see you have a crafting alt. Why are you not crafting stuff for free for the guild? Wtf man?!" or "I see you have a healer alt. Have you maxxed it out yet? We gonna need it for the next raid cause we already have enough of your main class. Go do it asap".

What you are saying sounds more like a guild people problem. Joining a guild that is of your play style is important, if its a bad guild I'd leave. If a guild expected me to do things 24/7 and didn't respect me just chilling I'd leave that guild but the guild id be running wouldn't have that issue. Its something that hangs more on leadership positions on helping people that need help or fixing issues and it is just part of the job. Be you are on the game or not people will bug you and there is no escaping it. So I don't see this as a valid point on needing to escape from people.

Mag7spy

Ferryman wrote: »

I have tried to think this and because citizenship will be account bound that takes care of issues related to acting at several nodes at the same time. However, I do not see a reason why characters freedom of choise should be restricted especially if spying is an intended feature. If I mirror this to Albion and Fractured MMOs. Either one is not restricting which guild I can join with my characters. Fractured uses account bound citizenship feature if your characters are from same planet and therefore, has similar approach as Ashes. If there is no serious downsides to join different guilds then I would value player's freedom of choise much more. I am not sure if I have played a single MMORPG where my characters would been forced to be in one guild.

Of course not saying it will happen with guilds its just my view point on it. In BDO your character family was all in the same guild. Then playing lost ark being able to be in multiple guilds honestly i felt that was a issue, though the need for alts, limited guild space and no recruitment chat all didn't help the issue as well.

If you are in one guild there is much higher chance to be in their discord doing things with them, etc. Compared to being in multiple guilds. As well you get bonuses for being in a guild and smaller guilds get more higher perks. So if you can be in more guilds you have your alt run the guild after a certain point and you have selected groups join a smaller guild for more power while you run your main guild. So you are just trying to min max with multiple guilds.

Noaani

This is another one of those issues that was settled years ago.

Steven wants inter-guild drama, and a big part of that is rival guilds spying on each other.

This is something Steven wants to have happen, and so any restrictions at all that make it so a player can't do this simply wont happen.

Requiring all characters on an account would restrict the owner of that account from spying on a rival guild, and so is simply not going to happen.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

Be you are on the game or not people will bug you and there is no escaping it. So I don't see this as a valid point on needing to escape from people.

Except I can tell them that I can't play rn. And if my alts are not in the guild, they wouldn't know that I'm playing. But even outside of that point, you're still forcing people into smth they might not want. And while with node citizenship it's somewhat understandable because there's a ton of mechanics and benefits related to it, forcing people to have all of their alts in the same guild doesn't serve any real purpose outside of just limiting people's choice.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

This is another one of those issues that was settled years ago.

Steven wants inter-guild drama, and a big part of that is rival guilds spying on each other.

This is something Steven wants to have happen, and so any restrictions at all that make it so a player can't do this simply wont happen.

Requiring all characters on an account would restrict the owner of that account from spying on a rival guild, and so is simply not going to happen.

That isn't true you can leave guild and spy on another guild, that is a red herring. You can talking to other people and get them to spy for you, leave guild and spy on them. All of that is possible while having a guild bound system.

I could use that wording in the same way where it would make spies seem more valid since they can only be in one guild and more easy to trick people. This person has been in our guild for a month and can only be in one guild so there is a much higher chance he isn't a spy.

Meaning that guilds being bound would lean better to the quote and this is the correct way to go.

~~~

You would need a quote saying you can join multiple guilds with your alt characters and spy on them.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

That isn't true you can leave guild and spy on another guild, that is a red herring.

A red herring argument is one that is based on presenting unrelated information and related information at the same time, in order to distract from the related information.

There is no way you could consider my post a red herring, as it has nothing but related information contained within.

And also, Steven has said you shouldn't need to leave your guild in order to spy on another guild. So, there's that...

Vaknar

This is certainly interesting to think about. Your idea poses different pros and cons. As others have stated, spying on other guilds and espionage is not just an unintended byproduct of the system, but instead an intentional inclusion of the system.

I think ideas like this generate great, thought-provoking conversations. Keep it up! ^_^

Dygz

Mag7spy wrote: »

How does being in one guild stop you from playing your character how you want?

Because my alts are not going to have the same interests and different goals and objectives and are not going to want the same Guild perks.

Mag7spy wrote: »

It doesn't stop you from playing with other guilds, talking to them etc.

Mag7spy wrote: »

Only thing you lose out is perks that different guilds that and not being able to try to get the best of all worlds on alts if you were allowed to be in them.

Why is that dismissed as "only"?
I dunno what "the best of all worlds" is intended to mean.

Mag7spy wrote: »

The main point for this is so you aren't limited by alts in a single guild people aren't like "this guilds doesn't work for me since my alts won't get the bonus and they have since there is no room for them". So guilds can grow, since both you will have commitments to each other and you aren't just a person in a guild that doesn't do anything to help it grow but try to leech perks.

Players are limited if their alts don't want to be in the same guild.
Why would alts be doing nothing else for their disparate guilds except "leeching" perks??
That makes no sense.

CROW3

George_Black wrote: »

Who said anything about your individual advantage? How can you ever examine an idea when this is your starting point?

The advantage is the health of the guild system.

Interesting perspective. I think it would benefit Intrepid if you only posted in this forum. I don't think it's helpful to Ashes if you're involved playing or commenting on other games, @George_Black

George_Black

CROW3 wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Who said anything about your individual advantage? How can you ever examine an idea when this is your starting point?

The advantage is the health of the guild system.

Interesting perspective. I think it would benefit Intrepid if you only posted in this forum. I don't think it's helpful to Ashes if you're involved playing or commenting on other games, @George_Black

Sarcasm? Not original. What would benefit Intrepids development? "This idea will not suit me so I dont see ANY advantages."
Posts like these?

George_Black

bloodprophet wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Not a fan. I want the freedom to play my alts differently, which includes different guilds. I don't see any advantage to an account being locked into a guild.

Who said anything about your individual advantage? How can you ever examine an idea when this is your starting point?

The advantage is the health of the guild system.

Collectivism over individuality never wins.
Why should players be forced to join a guild?
Why should Intrepid abandon a stated game play choice by forcing people into a guild?

As for your other comment reading comprehension and understanding are not really that hard.
Read the multi-box thread on the wiki and watch the videos. It is not about multiple games on multiple computers. It is about multiple games running at the same time on the same computer.

Alts are alts weather they are on the same account or a different one.
Lots of people run multiple accounts from one machine.

Multiple game clients running from the same pc is bannable. No need for any discussion or mentioning it.

CROW3

George_Black wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Who said anything about your individual advantage? How can you ever examine an idea when this is your starting point?

The advantage is the health of the guild system.

Interesting perspective. I think it would benefit Intrepid if you only posted in this forum. I don't think it's helpful to Ashes if you're involved playing or commenting on other games, @George_Black

Sarcasm? Not original. What would benefit Intrepids development? "This idea will not suit me so I dont see ANY advantages."
Posts like these?

Uh huh. Well, feel free to list the mutual advantages anytime.

George_Black

CROW3 wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Who said anything about your individual advantage? How can you ever examine an idea when this is your starting point?

The advantage is the health of the guild system.

Interesting perspective. I think it would benefit Intrepid if you only posted in this forum. I don't think it's helpful to Ashes if you're involved playing or commenting on other games, @George_Black

Sarcasm? Not original. What would benefit Intrepids development? "This idea will not suit me so I dont see ANY advantages."
Posts like these?

Uh huh. Well, feel free to list the mutual advantages anytime.

Rly? Have you not read what ppl "listed" so far? We are on the second page. What have you been doing besides saying "I dont see any advantage for ME" ?

Noaani

George_Black wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Who said anything about your individual advantage? How can you ever examine an idea when this is your starting point?

The advantage is the health of the guild system.

Interesting perspective. I think it would benefit Intrepid if you only posted in this forum. I don't think it's helpful to Ashes if you're involved playing or commenting on other games, @George_Black

Sarcasm? Not original. What would benefit Intrepids development? "This idea will not suit me so I dont see ANY advantages."
Posts like these?

Uh huh. Well, feel free to list the mutual advantages anytime.

Rly? Have you not read what ppl "listed" so far? We are on the second page. What have you been doing besides saying "I dont see any advantage for ME" ?

The only things I have seen listed are all things that Intrepid intend.

Do you have any thoughts on some unintended consequences?

CROW3

No mutual benefit so far.

George_Black wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Who said anything about your individual advantage? How can you ever examine an idea when this is your starting point?

The advantage is the health of the guild system.

Interesting perspective. I think it would benefit Intrepid if you only posted in this forum. I don't think it's helpful to Ashes if you're involved playing or commenting on other games, @George_Black

Sarcasm? Not original. What would benefit Intrepids development? "This idea will not suit me so I dont see ANY advantages."
Posts like these?

Uh huh. Well, feel free to list the mutual advantages anytime.

Rly? Have you not read what ppl "listed" so far? We are on the second page. What have you been doing besides saying "I dont see any advantage for ME" ?

Yep, not seeing a mutual benefit for the player and the guild. It’s your argument to make… so it’s fine if you just want to spit in the wind. 🤷‍♂️

We’ll just get the guild system as it stands.

George_Black

Noaani wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Who said anything about your individual advantage? How can you ever examine an idea when this is your starting point?

The advantage is the health of the guild system.

Interesting perspective. I think it would benefit Intrepid if you only posted in this forum. I don't think it's helpful to Ashes if you're involved playing or commenting on other games, @George_Black

Sarcasm? Not original. What would benefit Intrepids development? "This idea will not suit me so I dont see ANY advantages."
Posts like these?

Uh huh. Well, feel free to list the mutual advantages anytime.

Rly? Have you not read what ppl "listed" so far? We are on the second page. What have you been doing besides saying "I dont see any advantage for ME" ?

The only things I have seen listed are all things that Intrepid intend.

Do you have any thoughts on some unintended consequences?

I believe that if players want to spy on other guilds they can just leave their real guild, take their account elsewhere and do their spying. And come back later.
I believe that if people want to play alts without socializing they should just say "Im doing something by myself today so I wont be available". It's not a big deal.

The proposed design helps guilds with their available spots. If the account is tied to the guild, a member can swap from a high to a low character, from a tank to a dps, from whatever the need is, without worrying about not having room, about coming to the activity with a non guild character, potentially missing out on contributing or receiving and guild points.

I dont understand this selfish behaviour. What do you think guilds are? Armor skins that complement your mood? "I wanna be able to play in many guilds". I dont get it.

Anyways. None of this affects me on a personal level. Not one bit. Ill take my common sense and get out of this topic. Arguing against selfishness isnt hard anyway. I said all I had.

Crow you still want mutual benefits. When it comes to social structures the individual sacrifices. It doesnt expect benefits. I said it on the first post. Why should there be a personal advantage?

CROW3

Ok.

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