Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You could not have said that better, the entire time i look at my ability bar and not anything else its terrible. Part of the reason that it put me to sleep when I use to play City of heroes and SWTOR. Why would you look at your ability bar? When I play a tab target game. I will often set my action bar to not even be visible outside of raid content (if the game allows for that - which most do, because it is reasonably common). People have an innate ability to sense time. if I tell you to wait exactly 10 seconds, you will probably be accurate within a second without having to think or count it out. Most tab target games have an ability queue, where the game will queue up the last ability you activated while the one you are casting is still being cast (and you still have the GCD to wait through). They will also usually give you an indicator as to whether or not an ability you attempted to activate did indeed activate. These three things (ability queue, notification if an ability didn't activate and a persons innate ability to internally measure small amounts of time accurately) are all that is needed to never look at your action bar. You should know innately what abilities are available to be cast, and if you attempt to cast one that is not yet ready, you will get a notification of this so that you can queue something else - and all of this happens while you are still casting the previous ability. Then, when the casting animation for your next spell starts (meaning the ability queue is empty), you start the process again, casting the spell you want that you think should be up, getting a notification if it is not, etc. As such, there is literally no reason to look at your ability bar at all during combat - you should be able to judge when an ability is ready to use. Now, if you don't have that innate ability to internally measure small periods of time, then I would agree, you probably need to look at your bar, and that probably has an negative effect on your opinion of tab target games. However, that is a shortcoming with you as a gamer, not an issue with tab target games. Saying you don't like tab target games because of this is literally the same thing as someone saying they don't like action games because they don't have the reaction speed or accuracy those games need. It is simply a case of the player not having the skill needed to play that type of game. You saying you hide your ability bar makes 0 sense to me in a tab target game. Either you have played a old game for year and years where you dont have new abilities and memorized every single key 20-40 (not normal btw). You are right about the sense of time i can't do anything so im looking at the ability bar until my move is up and clicking it the moment its up lmao. . This is actually crazy, there is no reason to look at anything but your ability bar most of the time besides when you need to move for a mechanic. Gtfo of here with short coming if you have like 20-40 abilities to go through between 3 or 4 bars. Tab target doesn't take skill you do your rotation and everything auto hits the enemy pretty simply. Mashing your keyboard isn't judging when your ability is ready to use off world cooldown you are just mashing to try to do it as fast as possible. Or you have a floating ability that shows when you are off global cool down. Again no reason to look off your ability bar and dmg charts 60-70% to the 30% when you look at the screen depending on the content since movement doesn't matter. And I'm not talking about weird instances where you need to move to avoid dmg because you aren't in a proper party with a tank. Some people have innate timesense. Perhaps others don't. You know where this will go if you try to do a bunch of arguments based on that. Your point is that you don't need to do anything else, right? But in a game where you did need to do something else, then your point wouldn't stand up to it, and there are plenty of Tab Target games where there is a lot to do, you just happen to not have played any. You really wanna get into another long banter with people based on the fact that you haven't played certain games, by all means continue, but I'll join the chorus of saying that you seem moreso concerned about something you might not have an ability to do, or you're not addressing your own point. Now the question of 'whether or not Intrepid should do something for players without innate timesense' is different, but it doesn't need to be answered because we know the ability bar does show cooldowns. Rift, everquest, shadowbane, city of heroes, age of conan, WoW, Swtor. You do not need to do anything else. You look at your target, you attack it and it dies. The amount of time you need to do other things for mechs is not what I'm talking about with involved combat. Ie go stand at a point here and wait so a certain move doesn't kill you. That is just a normal mech type of thing but during the main chunk of the combat there is little to no reason to be looking anywhere else that involved constant focus. Having a general sense of what the boss is doing and the stages is good enough. Your main focus is attack the boss / mob as it stays in its general position with watching out for mechs every so often. If someone says tab target is more involved that is not true when it comes to tab target. You can easily compare any tab target content IN THE WORLD, to a game that has decent action and its night and day. One of the worst things you can do to yourself in a competitive game is to conclude that because you can't/don't do something, other people can't/don't either. It leads to all sorts of negative reactions without purpose, and you never end up trying to address it with devs if they are taking feedback on the matter. Making noise about it in that way just makes you seem incompetent or, at least for some others, misinformed, about the intentions, designs, and capabilities of others. I'm just telling you not to make yourself look 'bad' in another long argument that's going to just end up with 'people realizing that you can't do something they can do'. And so, for your education, whether you choose to believe it or not, I can sometimes get that 'timer' in my head so calibrated that I 'start casting Haste', which is a buff with a 3 minute duration in the game I'm talking about, and then start recasting it before it's actually worn off the target (it has 3 seconds casting time) and have it wear off the target while I am casting. I have done this automatically while doing everything else. No timers, no UI. I would never suggest a game be designed so that a person HAD to do this, but crowing about impossibilty will just make you seem silly to everyone else who has either done this or seen someone else do it. All you've implied to someone like me is that you're bad at Tab Target games if you play any classes that require you to do any analysis or adaptation.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You could not have said that better, the entire time i look at my ability bar and not anything else its terrible. Part of the reason that it put me to sleep when I use to play City of heroes and SWTOR. Why would you look at your ability bar? When I play a tab target game. I will often set my action bar to not even be visible outside of raid content (if the game allows for that - which most do, because it is reasonably common). People have an innate ability to sense time. if I tell you to wait exactly 10 seconds, you will probably be accurate within a second without having to think or count it out. Most tab target games have an ability queue, where the game will queue up the last ability you activated while the one you are casting is still being cast (and you still have the GCD to wait through). They will also usually give you an indicator as to whether or not an ability you attempted to activate did indeed activate. These three things (ability queue, notification if an ability didn't activate and a persons innate ability to internally measure small amounts of time accurately) are all that is needed to never look at your action bar. You should know innately what abilities are available to be cast, and if you attempt to cast one that is not yet ready, you will get a notification of this so that you can queue something else - and all of this happens while you are still casting the previous ability. Then, when the casting animation for your next spell starts (meaning the ability queue is empty), you start the process again, casting the spell you want that you think should be up, getting a notification if it is not, etc. As such, there is literally no reason to look at your ability bar at all during combat - you should be able to judge when an ability is ready to use. Now, if you don't have that innate ability to internally measure small periods of time, then I would agree, you probably need to look at your bar, and that probably has an negative effect on your opinion of tab target games. However, that is a shortcoming with you as a gamer, not an issue with tab target games. Saying you don't like tab target games because of this is literally the same thing as someone saying they don't like action games because they don't have the reaction speed or accuracy those games need. It is simply a case of the player not having the skill needed to play that type of game. You saying you hide your ability bar makes 0 sense to me in a tab target game. Either you have played a old game for year and years where you dont have new abilities and memorized every single key 20-40 (not normal btw). You are right about the sense of time i can't do anything so im looking at the ability bar until my move is up and clicking it the moment its up lmao. . This is actually crazy, there is no reason to look at anything but your ability bar most of the time besides when you need to move for a mechanic. Gtfo of here with short coming if you have like 20-40 abilities to go through between 3 or 4 bars. Tab target doesn't take skill you do your rotation and everything auto hits the enemy pretty simply. Mashing your keyboard isn't judging when your ability is ready to use off world cooldown you are just mashing to try to do it as fast as possible. Or you have a floating ability that shows when you are off global cool down. Again no reason to look off your ability bar and dmg charts 60-70% to the 30% when you look at the screen depending on the content since movement doesn't matter. And I'm not talking about weird instances where you need to move to avoid dmg because you aren't in a proper party with a tank. Some people have innate timesense. Perhaps others don't. You know where this will go if you try to do a bunch of arguments based on that. Your point is that you don't need to do anything else, right? But in a game where you did need to do something else, then your point wouldn't stand up to it, and there are plenty of Tab Target games where there is a lot to do, you just happen to not have played any. You really wanna get into another long banter with people based on the fact that you haven't played certain games, by all means continue, but I'll join the chorus of saying that you seem moreso concerned about something you might not have an ability to do, or you're not addressing your own point. Now the question of 'whether or not Intrepid should do something for players without innate timesense' is different, but it doesn't need to be answered because we know the ability bar does show cooldowns. Rift, everquest, shadowbane, city of heroes, age of conan, WoW, Swtor. You do not need to do anything else. You look at your target, you attack it and it dies. The amount of time you need to do other things for mechs is not what I'm talking about with involved combat. Ie go stand at a point here and wait so a certain move doesn't kill you. That is just a normal mech type of thing but during the main chunk of the combat there is little to no reason to be looking anywhere else that involved constant focus. Having a general sense of what the boss is doing and the stages is good enough. Your main focus is attack the boss / mob as it stays in its general position with watching out for mechs every so often. If someone says tab target is more involved that is not true when it comes to tab target. You can easily compare any tab target content IN THE WORLD, to a game that has decent action and its night and day.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You could not have said that better, the entire time i look at my ability bar and not anything else its terrible. Part of the reason that it put me to sleep when I use to play City of heroes and SWTOR. Why would you look at your ability bar? When I play a tab target game. I will often set my action bar to not even be visible outside of raid content (if the game allows for that - which most do, because it is reasonably common). People have an innate ability to sense time. if I tell you to wait exactly 10 seconds, you will probably be accurate within a second without having to think or count it out. Most tab target games have an ability queue, where the game will queue up the last ability you activated while the one you are casting is still being cast (and you still have the GCD to wait through). They will also usually give you an indicator as to whether or not an ability you attempted to activate did indeed activate. These three things (ability queue, notification if an ability didn't activate and a persons innate ability to internally measure small amounts of time accurately) are all that is needed to never look at your action bar. You should know innately what abilities are available to be cast, and if you attempt to cast one that is not yet ready, you will get a notification of this so that you can queue something else - and all of this happens while you are still casting the previous ability. Then, when the casting animation for your next spell starts (meaning the ability queue is empty), you start the process again, casting the spell you want that you think should be up, getting a notification if it is not, etc. As such, there is literally no reason to look at your ability bar at all during combat - you should be able to judge when an ability is ready to use. Now, if you don't have that innate ability to internally measure small periods of time, then I would agree, you probably need to look at your bar, and that probably has an negative effect on your opinion of tab target games. However, that is a shortcoming with you as a gamer, not an issue with tab target games. Saying you don't like tab target games because of this is literally the same thing as someone saying they don't like action games because they don't have the reaction speed or accuracy those games need. It is simply a case of the player not having the skill needed to play that type of game. You saying you hide your ability bar makes 0 sense to me in a tab target game. Either you have played a old game for year and years where you dont have new abilities and memorized every single key 20-40 (not normal btw). You are right about the sense of time i can't do anything so im looking at the ability bar until my move is up and clicking it the moment its up lmao. . This is actually crazy, there is no reason to look at anything but your ability bar most of the time besides when you need to move for a mechanic. Gtfo of here with short coming if you have like 20-40 abilities to go through between 3 or 4 bars. Tab target doesn't take skill you do your rotation and everything auto hits the enemy pretty simply. Mashing your keyboard isn't judging when your ability is ready to use off world cooldown you are just mashing to try to do it as fast as possible. Or you have a floating ability that shows when you are off global cool down. Again no reason to look off your ability bar and dmg charts 60-70% to the 30% when you look at the screen depending on the content since movement doesn't matter. And I'm not talking about weird instances where you need to move to avoid dmg because you aren't in a proper party with a tank. Some people have innate timesense. Perhaps others don't. You know where this will go if you try to do a bunch of arguments based on that. Your point is that you don't need to do anything else, right? But in a game where you did need to do something else, then your point wouldn't stand up to it, and there are plenty of Tab Target games where there is a lot to do, you just happen to not have played any. You really wanna get into another long banter with people based on the fact that you haven't played certain games, by all means continue, but I'll join the chorus of saying that you seem moreso concerned about something you might not have an ability to do, or you're not addressing your own point. Now the question of 'whether or not Intrepid should do something for players without innate timesense' is different, but it doesn't need to be answered because we know the ability bar does show cooldowns.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You could not have said that better, the entire time i look at my ability bar and not anything else its terrible. Part of the reason that it put me to sleep when I use to play City of heroes and SWTOR. Why would you look at your ability bar? When I play a tab target game. I will often set my action bar to not even be visible outside of raid content (if the game allows for that - which most do, because it is reasonably common). People have an innate ability to sense time. if I tell you to wait exactly 10 seconds, you will probably be accurate within a second without having to think or count it out. Most tab target games have an ability queue, where the game will queue up the last ability you activated while the one you are casting is still being cast (and you still have the GCD to wait through). They will also usually give you an indicator as to whether or not an ability you attempted to activate did indeed activate. These three things (ability queue, notification if an ability didn't activate and a persons innate ability to internally measure small amounts of time accurately) are all that is needed to never look at your action bar. You should know innately what abilities are available to be cast, and if you attempt to cast one that is not yet ready, you will get a notification of this so that you can queue something else - and all of this happens while you are still casting the previous ability. Then, when the casting animation for your next spell starts (meaning the ability queue is empty), you start the process again, casting the spell you want that you think should be up, getting a notification if it is not, etc. As such, there is literally no reason to look at your ability bar at all during combat - you should be able to judge when an ability is ready to use. Now, if you don't have that innate ability to internally measure small periods of time, then I would agree, you probably need to look at your bar, and that probably has an negative effect on your opinion of tab target games. However, that is a shortcoming with you as a gamer, not an issue with tab target games. Saying you don't like tab target games because of this is literally the same thing as someone saying they don't like action games because they don't have the reaction speed or accuracy those games need. It is simply a case of the player not having the skill needed to play that type of game. You saying you hide your ability bar makes 0 sense to me in a tab target game. Either you have played a old game for year and years where you dont have new abilities and memorized every single key 20-40 (not normal btw). You are right about the sense of time i can't do anything so im looking at the ability bar until my move is up and clicking it the moment its up lmao. . This is actually crazy, there is no reason to look at anything but your ability bar most of the time besides when you need to move for a mechanic. Gtfo of here with short coming if you have like 20-40 abilities to go through between 3 or 4 bars. Tab target doesn't take skill you do your rotation and everything auto hits the enemy pretty simply. Mashing your keyboard isn't judging when your ability is ready to use off world cooldown you are just mashing to try to do it as fast as possible. Or you have a floating ability that shows when you are off global cool down. Again no reason to look off your ability bar and dmg charts 60-70% to the 30% when you look at the screen depending on the content since movement doesn't matter. And I'm not talking about weird instances where you need to move to avoid dmg because you aren't in a proper party with a tank.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You could not have said that better, the entire time i look at my ability bar and not anything else its terrible. Part of the reason that it put me to sleep when I use to play City of heroes and SWTOR. Why would you look at your ability bar? When I play a tab target game. I will often set my action bar to not even be visible outside of raid content (if the game allows for that - which most do, because it is reasonably common). People have an innate ability to sense time. if I tell you to wait exactly 10 seconds, you will probably be accurate within a second without having to think or count it out. Most tab target games have an ability queue, where the game will queue up the last ability you activated while the one you are casting is still being cast (and you still have the GCD to wait through). They will also usually give you an indicator as to whether or not an ability you attempted to activate did indeed activate. These three things (ability queue, notification if an ability didn't activate and a persons innate ability to internally measure small amounts of time accurately) are all that is needed to never look at your action bar. You should know innately what abilities are available to be cast, and if you attempt to cast one that is not yet ready, you will get a notification of this so that you can queue something else - and all of this happens while you are still casting the previous ability. Then, when the casting animation for your next spell starts (meaning the ability queue is empty), you start the process again, casting the spell you want that you think should be up, getting a notification if it is not, etc. As such, there is literally no reason to look at your ability bar at all during combat - you should be able to judge when an ability is ready to use. Now, if you don't have that innate ability to internally measure small periods of time, then I would agree, you probably need to look at your bar, and that probably has an negative effect on your opinion of tab target games. However, that is a shortcoming with you as a gamer, not an issue with tab target games. Saying you don't like tab target games because of this is literally the same thing as someone saying they don't like action games because they don't have the reaction speed or accuracy those games need. It is simply a case of the player not having the skill needed to play that type of game.
Mag7spy wrote: » You could not have said that better, the entire time i look at my ability bar and not anything else its terrible. Part of the reason that it put me to sleep when I use to play City of heroes and SWTOR.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You could not have said that better, the entire time i look at my ability bar and not anything else its terrible. Part of the reason that it put me to sleep when I use to play City of heroes and SWTOR. Why would you look at your ability bar? When I play a tab target game. I will often set my action bar to not even be visible outside of raid content (if the game allows for that - which most do, because it is reasonably common). People have an innate ability to sense time. if I tell you to wait exactly 10 seconds, you will probably be accurate within a second without having to think or count it out. Most tab target games have an ability queue, where the game will queue up the last ability you activated while the one you are casting is still being cast (and you still have the GCD to wait through). They will also usually give you an indicator as to whether or not an ability you attempted to activate did indeed activate. These three things (ability queue, notification if an ability didn't activate and a persons innate ability to internally measure small amounts of time accurately) are all that is needed to never look at your action bar. You should know innately what abilities are available to be cast, and if you attempt to cast one that is not yet ready, you will get a notification of this so that you can queue something else - and all of this happens while you are still casting the previous ability. Then, when the casting animation for your next spell starts (meaning the ability queue is empty), you start the process again, casting the spell you want that you think should be up, getting a notification if it is not, etc. As such, there is literally no reason to look at your ability bar at all during combat - you should be able to judge when an ability is ready to use. Now, if you don't have that innate ability to internally measure small periods of time, then I would agree, you probably need to look at your bar, and that probably has an negative effect on your opinion of tab target games. However, that is a shortcoming with you as a gamer, not an issue with tab target games. Saying you don't like tab target games because of this is literally the same thing as someone saying they don't like action games because they don't have the reaction speed or accuracy those games need. It is simply a case of the player not having the skill needed to play that type of game. You saying you hide your ability bar makes 0 sense to me in a tab target game. Either you have played a old game for year and years where you dont have new abilities and memorized every single key 20-40 (not normal btw). You are right about the sense of time i can't do anything so im looking at the ability bar until my move is up and clicking it the moment its up lmao. . This is actually crazy, there is no reason to look at anything but your ability bar most of the time besides when you need to move for a mechanic. Gtfo of here with short coming if you have like 20-40 abilities to go through between 3 or 4 bars. Tab target doesn't take skill you do your rotation and everything auto hits the enemy pretty simply. Mashing your keyboard isn't judging when your ability is ready to use off world cooldown you are just mashing to try to do it as fast as possible. Or you have a floating ability that shows when you are off global cool down. Again no reason to look off your ability bar and dmg charts 60-70% to the 30% when you look at the screen depending on the content since movement doesn't matter. And I'm not talking about weird instances where you need to move to avoid dmg because you aren't in a proper party with a tank. Some people have innate timesense. Perhaps others don't. You know where this will go if you try to do a bunch of arguments based on that. Your point is that you don't need to do anything else, right? But in a game where you did need to do something else, then your point wouldn't stand up to it, and there are plenty of Tab Target games where there is a lot to do, you just happen to not have played any. You really wanna get into another long banter with people based on the fact that you haven't played certain games, by all means continue, but I'll join the chorus of saying that you seem moreso concerned about something you might not have an ability to do, or you're not addressing your own point. Now the question of 'whether or not Intrepid should do something for players without innate timesense' is different, but it doesn't need to be answered because we know the ability bar does show cooldowns. Rift, everquest, shadowbane, city of heroes, age of conan, WoW, Swtor. You do not need to do anything else. You look at your target, you attack it and it dies. The amount of time you need to do other things for mechs is not what I'm talking about with involved combat. Ie go stand at a point here and wait so a certain move doesn't kill you. That is just a normal mech type of thing but during the main chunk of the combat there is little to no reason to be looking anywhere else that involved constant focus. Having a general sense of what the boss is doing and the stages is good enough. Your main focus is attack the boss / mob as it stays in its general position with watching out for mechs every so often. If someone says tab target is more involved that is not true when it comes to tab target. You can easily compare any tab target content IN THE WORLD, to a game that has decent action and its night and day. One of the worst things you can do to yourself in a competitive game is to conclude that because you can't/don't do something, other people can't/don't either. It leads to all sorts of negative reactions without purpose, and you never end up trying to address it with devs if they are taking feedback on the matter. Making noise about it in that way just makes you seem incompetent or, at least for some others, misinformed, about the intentions, designs, and capabilities of others. I'm just telling you not to make yourself look 'bad' in another long argument that's going to just end up with 'people realizing that you can't do something they can do'. And so, for your education, whether you choose to believe it or not, I can sometimes get that 'timer' in my head so calibrated that I 'start casting Haste', which is a buff with a 3 minute duration in the game I'm talking about, and then start recasting it before it's actually worn off the target (it has 3 seconds casting time) and have it wear off the target while I am casting. I have done this automatically while doing everything else. No timers, no UI. I would never suggest a game be designed so that a person HAD to do this, but crowing about impossibilty will just make you seem silly to everyone else who has either done this or seen someone else do it. All you've implied to someone like me is that you're bad at Tab Target games if you play any classes that require you to do any analysis or adaptation. Honestly what are you talking about, education lmfao you are wilding. When you buff someone why would you need to look at them in game? You look at their buffs, you look at your ability bar and use it. There is 0 reason to look at a player to use a ability buff in tab target 0. What are you talking about impossible, when I said impossible or near I'm talking about knowing 40 abilities and memorizing all of them in your head and not having any ui and having 40 different buttons set on your keyboards while knowing when they are all on cd or not. That is not normal, you aren't going to convince me it is for players to hide the whole UI, we can easy go jump into games and ask people and do a pole and seet what happens. Funny you mention look bad in along term argument, you say actually going way out there with this one. In my eyes you are looking very bad right now defending this, and plenty of people would agree with me. All defends on the environment and forum and your points right now are very weak. Either you are just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing, or not understanding my own view point and wanting to argue with me. What I've implied is that any normal player is not hiding their entire ui for key sets and remembering everything by memory for 20-40. What I'm implying is that there is more reason to be watching your abilities, party members over what you are fighting. Why is there more reason you ask, because there is nothing to dodge 90% of the time. At the point when you need to look is when certain mechs pop up so you can make sure you are on the right track. Honestly you are giving me the vibe you have not played that many tab target games.
Mag7spy wrote: » What I've implied is that any normal player is not hiding their entire ui for key sets and remembering everything by memory for 20-40. What I'm implying is that there is more reason to be watching your abilities, party members over what you are fighting. Why is there more reason you ask, because there is nothing to dodge 90% of the time. At the point when you need to look is when certain mechs pop up so you can make sure you are on the right track.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » You could not have said that better, the entire time i look at my ability bar and not anything else its terrible. Part of the reason that it put me to sleep when I use to play City of heroes and SWTOR. Why would you look at your ability bar? When I play a tab target game. I will often set my action bar to not even be visible outside of raid content (if the game allows for that - which most do, because it is reasonably common). People have an innate ability to sense time. if I tell you to wait exactly 10 seconds, you will probably be accurate within a second without having to think or count it out. Most tab target games have an ability queue, where the game will queue up the last ability you activated while the one you are casting is still being cast (and you still have the GCD to wait through). They will also usually give you an indicator as to whether or not an ability you attempted to activate did indeed activate. These three things (ability queue, notification if an ability didn't activate and a persons innate ability to internally measure small amounts of time accurately) are all that is needed to never look at your action bar. You should know innately what abilities are available to be cast, and if you attempt to cast one that is not yet ready, you will get a notification of this so that you can queue something else - and all of this happens while you are still casting the previous ability. Then, when the casting animation for your next spell starts (meaning the ability queue is empty), you start the process again, casting the spell you want that you think should be up, getting a notification if it is not, etc. As such, there is literally no reason to look at your ability bar at all during combat - you should be able to judge when an ability is ready to use. Now, if you don't have that innate ability to internally measure small periods of time, then I would agree, you probably need to look at your bar, and that probably has an negative effect on your opinion of tab target games. However, that is a shortcoming with you as a gamer, not an issue with tab target games. Saying you don't like tab target games because of this is literally the same thing as someone saying they don't like action games because they don't have the reaction speed or accuracy those games need. It is simply a case of the player not having the skill needed to play that type of game. You saying you hide your ability bar makes 0 sense to me in a tab target game. Either you have played a old game for year and years where you dont have new abilities and memorized every single key 20-40 (not normal btw). You are right about the sense of time i can't do anything so im looking at the ability bar until my move is up and clicking it the moment its up lmao. . This is actually crazy, there is no reason to look at anything but your ability bar most of the time besides when you need to move for a mechanic. Gtfo of here with short coming if you have like 20-40 abilities to go through between 3 or 4 bars. Tab target doesn't take skill you do your rotation and everything auto hits the enemy pretty simply. Mashing your keyboard isn't judging when your ability is ready to use off world cooldown you are just mashing to try to do it as fast as possible. Or you have a floating ability that shows when you are off global cool down. Again no reason to look off your ability bar and dmg charts 60-70% to the 30% when you look at the screen depending on the content since movement doesn't matter. And I'm not talking about weird instances where you need to move to avoid dmg because you aren't in a proper party with a tank. Some people have innate timesense. Perhaps others don't. You know where this will go if you try to do a bunch of arguments based on that. Your point is that you don't need to do anything else, right? But in a game where you did need to do something else, then your point wouldn't stand up to it, and there are plenty of Tab Target games where there is a lot to do, you just happen to not have played any. You really wanna get into another long banter with people based on the fact that you haven't played certain games, by all means continue, but I'll join the chorus of saying that you seem moreso concerned about something you might not have an ability to do, or you're not addressing your own point. Now the question of 'whether or not Intrepid should do something for players without innate timesense' is different, but it doesn't need to be answered because we know the ability bar does show cooldowns. Rift, everquest, shadowbane, city of heroes, age of conan, WoW, Swtor. You do not need to do anything else. You look at your target, you attack it and it dies. The amount of time you need to do other things for mechs is not what I'm talking about with involved combat. Ie go stand at a point here and wait so a certain move doesn't kill you. That is just a normal mech type of thing but during the main chunk of the combat there is little to no reason to be looking anywhere else that involved constant focus. Having a general sense of what the boss is doing and the stages is good enough. Your main focus is attack the boss / mob as it stays in its general position with watching out for mechs every so often. If someone says tab target is more involved that is not true when it comes to tab target. You can easily compare any tab target content IN THE WORLD, to a game that has decent action and its night and day. One of the worst things you can do to yourself in a competitive game is to conclude that because you can't/don't do something, other people can't/don't either. It leads to all sorts of negative reactions without purpose, and you never end up trying to address it with devs if they are taking feedback on the matter. Making noise about it in that way just makes you seem incompetent or, at least for some others, misinformed, about the intentions, designs, and capabilities of others. I'm just telling you not to make yourself look 'bad' in another long argument that's going to just end up with 'people realizing that you can't do something they can do'. And so, for your education, whether you choose to believe it or not, I can sometimes get that 'timer' in my head so calibrated that I 'start casting Haste', which is a buff with a 3 minute duration in the game I'm talking about, and then start recasting it before it's actually worn off the target (it has 3 seconds casting time) and have it wear off the target while I am casting. I have done this automatically while doing everything else. No timers, no UI. I would never suggest a game be designed so that a person HAD to do this, but crowing about impossibilty will just make you seem silly to everyone else who has either done this or seen someone else do it. All you've implied to someone like me is that you're bad at Tab Target games if you play any classes that require you to do any analysis or adaptation. Honestly what are you talking about, education lmfao you are wilding. When you buff someone why would you need to look at them in game? You look at their buffs, you look at your ability bar and use it. There is 0 reason to look at a player to use a ability buff in tab target 0. What are you talking about impossible, when I said impossible or near I'm talking about knowing 40 abilities and memorizing all of them in your head and not having any ui and having 40 different buttons set on your keyboards while knowing when they are all on cd or not. That is not normal, you aren't going to convince me it is for players to hide the whole UI, we can easy go jump into games and ask people and do a pole and seet what happens. Funny you mention look bad in along term argument, you say actually going way out there with this one. In my eyes you are looking very bad right now defending this, and plenty of people would agree with me. All defends on the environment and forum and your points right now are very weak. Either you are just wanting to argue for the sake of arguing, or not understanding my own view point and wanting to argue with me. What I've implied is that any normal player is not hiding their entire ui for key sets and remembering everything by memory for 20-40. What I'm implying is that there is more reason to be watching your abilities, party members over what you are fighting. Why is there more reason you ask, because there is nothing to dodge 90% of the time. At the point when you need to look is when certain mechs pop up so you can make sure you are on the right track. Honestly you are giving me the vibe you have not played that many tab target games. Alrighty then, please proceed. I should however also tell you that the game I'm referring to does not have an indicator for what buffs are on what players other than yourself at all, and my class in that game has 20+ buff spells. Maybe I indeed have not played enough Tab Target games.
Mag7spy wrote: » By nature there is less reason to be looking at what is going on your screen in tab target, depending on the content that can slightly change like pvp for example depending on the type of fight you are doing. For me I just view my abilities are more important then anything on screen as it doesn't matter "most the time".
NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » What I've implied is that any normal player is not hiding their entire ui for key sets and remembering everything by memory for 20-40. What I'm implying is that there is more reason to be watching your abilities, party members over what you are fighting. Why is there more reason you ask, because there is nothing to dodge 90% of the time. At the point when you need to look is when certain mechs pop up so you can make sure you are on the right track. I've played with quite a few people who replaced literally all their skills on the bar with macros (cause on some versions of L2 that sped up the cast delay by fraction of a second). And those macros didn't show cds, so those dudes just had to remember which skill was which macro and play purely by feel of cds. And in L2 pvp you didn't stand in one place all the time. You'd be moving, flowing, changing targets while also clicking the ground to move, picking debuff targets from a crowd and so on and so on. And healers would have to do all of that at even higher pace, because they had to heal and constantly be aware of their positioning too. Yet people managed all of that just fine w/o seeing their skill cds.
NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » By nature there is less reason to be looking at what is going on your screen in tab target, depending on the content that can slightly change like pvp for example depending on the type of fight you are doing. For me I just view my abilities are more important then anything on screen as it doesn't matter "most the time". And for me there was no reason to look at my skills cause I knew where they were under my hands and I, at least roughly, knew their cds. While looking at everything else on the screen meant the difference between my survival and death, and optimal farm too. I'd be constantly spinning the camera to check the entrances to my farming room and to check if some mobs have respawned, because they'd have staggered timers due to difference in ttk. And when I was in a party I'd be checking what others are doing just to be in rhythm with them, on top of the things I did alone, so it'd be even more stuff to check. And during high value high intensity farming, I'd be spinning my camera even more, because mobs respawned even quicker and the chance of someone coming to such a lucrative place were even higher. And in all that time, no matter what class I played, I had no reason to look at my ability bar.
Mag7spy wrote: » By default using macros is to make things easier, everyone has feelings on things but that isn't my point. Its about how important is it to see what a character is doing and how much does that influence gameplay. You can do content barely looking at the enemy and simply just use your abilities know exactly what is going to happen and tab between enemies.
Mag7spy wrote: » PvP isn't as much as managing skill cds in tab target. There is more focus on positioning and making sure you are hitting the player so it would demand more screen space. But it doesn't take that much brain power to do it in tab target games. You follow the plan, deal dmg, heal, push with your group, focus targets and swap targets when you need to target the next.
Mag7spy wrote: » I didn't need to worry about either of those. Perhaps more so at the start when i played shadowbane but having a group helps a lot having multiple eyes but I didn't feel overall stressed about gankers (while grinding) and spawns were predictable.
NiKr wrote: » Yet when I watched a mass pvp BDO video, it seemed like it was just a ton of 1v1 (maaybe 2-3v1) fights in one location, instead of a truly huge swarm vs swarm.
NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » By default using macros is to make things easier, everyone has feelings on things but that isn't my point. Its about how important is it to see what a character is doing and how much does that influence gameplay. You can do content barely looking at the enemy and simply just use your abilities know exactly what is going to happen and tab between enemies. L2's tab targetting didn't work as "just tab between enemies". You'd have to click on them, because the "tab" switching (called Next Target and was a general active ability and not an innate feature) would have a very short range. And unless you were a melee class (though even those not always), you wouldn't really have any uses for that feature. And the macros didn't add anything to make things easier. It was just a macro that said "/Delay /use skill ___". It was just a replacement of the skill icon with a macro icon that didn't show the skill's cd, so in this case it literally made things more difficult for the player. Mag7spy wrote: » PvP isn't as much as managing skill cds in tab target. There is more focus on positioning and making sure you are hitting the player so it would demand more screen space. But it doesn't take that much brain power to do it in tab target games. You follow the plan, deal dmg, heal, push with your group, focus targets and swap targets when you need to target the next. And I literally don't see how moving your camera a bit to the side requires more brain juice in action mmos. L2 didn't have gcd so its combat was super fast and you had to react to what your opponent was doing asap, sometimes even canceling your cast in order to do a counter move to your enemy's last ability. So it's not like I was just sitting on my ass for 2 secs while I waited for shit to happen, while in an action mmo I'd be constantly watching the enemy to time my dodge. And with most L2 pvp being at least multiple people on multiple people, you'd have to react and track several people at once. Yet when I watched a mass pvp BDO video, it seemed like it was just a ton of 1v1 (maaybe 2-3v1) fights in one location, instead of a truly huge swarm vs swarm. Now I could be wrong in my observation of that BDO video, but BDO itself isn't really the best example of pvp party play, so I'd rather look at some other mass pvp action combat mmo, but I don't really know any. Would gladly be proven wrong on this topic if anyone has a good example.
mcstackerson wrote: » I'm not 100% sure what you mean by this but to me, the separation of fights in a big fight is a good thing since it allows you to actually fight in a large fight setting. You still get that feeling of being part of a big battle with all the people around you. In a swarm vs swarm setting, you die so quickly, especially if you are melee, you can't enjoy the fight.
CROW3 wrote: » Have you played the Assassins Creed series? I’m admittedly late to the party, but have been playing AC:Odyssey for the past few weeks. It’s action combat is pretty impressive, and blends standard attacks with active ability attacks quite smoothly. Puts a lot of action mechanics I’ve played before to shame.
NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » I didn't need to worry about either of those. Perhaps more so at the start when i played shadowbane but having a group helps a lot having multiple eyes but I didn't feel overall stressed about gankers (while grinding) and spawns were predictable. And I think that's literally the point of this whole discussion. There's different experiences from different games, yet you generalize those whole subgenre and dismiss any possibility of equal comparison. In Noaani's experience PvE can require you to concentrate on itself all the time. In my experience potential pvp and the pvp itself requires you to always look at your enemy. In your experience neither of those are true because you didn't play games that required either of those things. I'm sure that my BDO experience has made me really biased against some action combat designs, but I'm not saying that literally all action combat games are the same. Though I kinda am saying that cause from what I've seen, they have been quite similar so far in their core design, so that's a bit hypocritical on my side But exactly due to that hypocrisy I'd love to be proven wrong in my assumptions, be it by AoC's potential action combat or any other mmo that I've just haven't heard about yet.
mcstackerson wrote: » I'm not trying to dismiss what you are saying, i've just seen you mention other things beside the aiming aspect which has nothing to do with this conversation. If you don't like aiming than cool. If you look at rpgs outside of the MMO space, you will see a lot that you systems where you have to aim. I don't think the presence of aiming turns the game into COD.
Shilee wrote: » Action combat is how others and I see the direction of the genre evolving. Not only does action combat feel more engaging because of it's difficulty to learn, it makes the gameplay feel far more dynamic. In WoW pvp the only thing I need to worry about is my rotation, some positioning, and managing my cds according to my opponents. In action combat, you need to do all of those things to a higher degree. Worrying about my rotation now includes that I'm actually aiming and hitting my abilities on target instead of hitting a button and knowing it will hit. Utilizing my positioning relative to my opponents so that I can optimize hitting my abilities on them while also avoiding theirs. Using my environment to my advantage, if I'm playing a ranged class such as a ranger or a mage, how can I use the difference in elevation to make it so my opponent can't hit me; should I mantle that ledge and attack from above? All of this enhances combat and adds depth to an otherwise stale genre.
