Held block vs timed parry vs passive block [Poll]

Since showcasing basic melee attack animations, discussions came up again about blocks.
There are 3 possible ways to implement a blocking system

Held blocks - the one we saw during the stream of showcasing basic melee attack animations. Will most likely drain X amount of X resource (Stamina/Mana) per millisecond/second and is more friendly to the average player

Timed parry - lasts for a limited time; example 1,5 seconds. More forgiving regarding resource drain, but higher risk assuming there will be a slight cooldown between each parry. Requires more skill to pull off as you have to read the opponents animations and spells to time it right both against other players and mobs.

Passive block - RNG % based. The simplest form and what most players from the genre are used to, it just works!

What do you prefer? Poll link: https://strawpoll.com/polls/NMnQBx4P0g6

NOTE: both held block and timed parry can possibly coexist with passive block chance.

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Comments

Azherae

For an MMO, I feel that adding a timed parry will be bad.

Given how slow MMOs are compared to what I normally play, it feels like an unnecessary raise of the skill floor. These types of things are never 'not meta' because if they are good enough to be worth using, they'll also be too strong in the hands of much faster players.

If they're not good enough for that, then they're just taking a risk for minimal benefit.

So if I assume a 'balanced' Timed Parry, I'll absolutely take it, but the game would suffer, I think.

For reference my SFV secondary has a parry that is active for only 2 frames and others that are active for 11. 1/30th of a second and 1/5th of a second or so, respectively.

I'm unlikely to fail a 90 frame parry.

falcorpix

Held block 100%, since it can and will be used mostly as a parry either way.

I think the poll is bugged, at least not showing any results for me.

Anonymous332

falcorpix wrote: »

Held block 100%, since it can and will be used mostly as a parry either way.

I think the poll is bugged, at least not showing any results for me.

Thanks for the heads up, should be fixed

234Graph

Why not all three? I'm pretty sure that's what they're going for anyway

TheSgtPepper

I think there could be room for all three depending on the class they could have multiple.

I imagine a situation where a pure tank could have all three but he mistimed his parry and a blade dancer weaves in to save the tank with his or her parry. I think for PvE the more fun to use tools the better especially if it gives players the ability to help each other.

For PvP, they can nerf or outright remove aspects of an ability. I.E. Taunts, charms or mind controls, or counters like we have seen in other MMOs. I would enjoy classes that had thematically correct defensive and offensive cooldowns that only had areas of overlap where it made sense I.E. a pure Tank/Tank having all 3 defensive blocking types but a fighter maybe only have 1.

If I could only pick one I would prefer counters but as Azherae points out that has a lot of gameplay issues.

I think the safest bet is passive and active blocking with % increases based on gear and class.

George_Black

These ideas should belong to class abilities, not basic mechanics. They bring variety and flavour.

CROW3

Hm… I agree w/George - some of these ideas seem over complicated for basic melee. If I’m holding a shield or a two-handed weapon and click my RMB I have an active block (e.g.Skyrim, Valheim).

All the other mechanics can be active / passive abilities for primary or secondary tank archetypes.

Mag7spy

All three should be an option. Active block takes in account your blocking stat as it doesn't stop all damage. (granted its still in development)

George_Black

Mag7spy wrote: »

All three should be an option. Active block takes in account your blocking stat as it doesn't stop all damage. (granted its still in development)

Does that mean that all three should be available to all classes/weapons?

Blindside

It doesn't need to be a resource-based held-block. If there are abilities in Ashes, there can simply be a 2-3 second duration channeled block skill ALONG with counterattack abilities.

Passive % block chance is bad. RNG should be minimized in skill-based combat systems. The only RNG that is acceptable in PvP is critical strike chance. RNG defense is detrimental.

Solvryn

I’m a fan of all three. I think block should be most effective with Sword and Board, parry be most effective with the other weapons.

I’m about pushing the skill ceiling as high as it can go, players shouldnt be stifled on their mastery of the game. It should be definitive on where a player stands in terms of skill.

They should stay separate from class kits and available to through the weapons system.

Elder

I'm an advocate for the active block being less focused on mitigating damage and more useful as a tool for lessening the effects of knockdowns, knockbacks, staggers and stuns.

falcorpix

Elder wrote: »

I'm an advocate for the active block being less focused on mitigating damage and more useful as a tool for lessening the effects of knockdowns, knockbacks, staggers and stuns.

Im an advocate for the shield doing its job and blocking anything coming your way, be it just damage or CC.
Attacks from behind, above or below aren't blockable.

Elder

falcorpix wrote: »

Elder wrote: »

I'm an advocate for the active block being less focused on mitigating damage and more useful as a tool for lessening the effects of knockdowns, knockbacks, staggers and stuns.

Im an advocate for the shield doing its job and blocking anything coming your way, be it just damage or CC.
Attacks from behind, above or below aren't blockable.

I never said anything about a shield. Active blocking seems to be universal for each weapon and class.

I have no issue with shields providing higher damage mitigation when active blocking or allowing options for specialization in damage mitigation.

I do however believe that active blocking shouldn't inherently or exclusively be focused on damage mitigation.

I have a post on this subject that you also seemed to misunderstand. If you'd like you can read through it again.

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/52863/suggestion-alternative-to-active-blocking-as-damage-mitigation#latest

falcorpix

Elder wrote: »

I never said anything about a shield. Active blocking seems to be universal for each weapon and class.

I have no issue with shields providing higher damage mitigation when active blocking or allowing options for specialization in damage mitigation.

I do however believe that active blocking shouldn't inherently or exclusively be focused on damage mitigation.

Block seems universal, but i don't think all weapons/classes should be good at it and instead should rely more on evasion.

Elder

falcorpix wrote: »

Elder wrote: »

I never said anything about a shield. Active blocking seems to be universal for each weapon and class.

I have no issue with shields providing higher damage mitigation when active blocking or allowing options for specialization in damage mitigation.

I do however believe that active blocking shouldn't inherently or exclusively be focused on damage mitigation.

Block seems universal, but i don't think all weapons/classes should be good at it and instead should rely more on evasion.

Or, as I suggested, let those that don't specialize in damage mitigation use active blocking as a tool for lessening the effects of knockdowns, knockbacks, staggers and stuns.

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