Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good And to follow up on that... people end up with entirely different perceptions of what fighting games are ABOUT based on what characters they play, the same as for classes in MMOs. So it would make sense for Mag to conclude 'you don't understand fighting games' when you have that response, because to a Siegfried player that usually is NOT how one plays. And similarly, most games have 'a character with that style'. This is why I use this sort of thing to judge/predict people. Even the response you received, to me, just indicates 'NiKr plays more methodically, so maybe Kilik', but Mag doesn't think in the same way as you, literally it's required to not. It's not a matter of 'fault'. In order to SUCCEED at playing Siegfried, you HAVE to 'disregard opposing attacks', you have to be 'willing to make sweeping generalizations', and you have to be 'willing to retreat before making a big attempt at getting into the other person's conceptual space'. Mag is 'fighting correctly' for who Mag is. It's me that hasn't been. Except my main was talim in the last soul calibur lmao. You're still really annoying, but now at least I don't need to keep ignoring your posts... You're a Siegfried at heart, in my mind. And you're referring to SC6. I'm aware that people have Secondaries. Even your secondary was predictable to an extent.@NiKr the amount of information that has been basically jumpstarted into my brain from watching just TWO of Mag's matches is more than I can reasonably express, but to actually derail into 'I now have analysis' would make this thread so so much worse. I will say this though. And this is incontrovertible and provable. You are talking to a person who plays fighting games by 'trying to overpower the opponent with offense'. Siegfried does it with power and reach, Talim does it by 'constantly poking very quickly, trying to interrupt everything and respond faster with short strikes, and dodging out of the way of opponent moves pre-emptively'. Sound famililar? I'm curious which ones you watched. There are some fights I only play with one hand btw.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good And to follow up on that... people end up with entirely different perceptions of what fighting games are ABOUT based on what characters they play, the same as for classes in MMOs. So it would make sense for Mag to conclude 'you don't understand fighting games' when you have that response, because to a Siegfried player that usually is NOT how one plays. And similarly, most games have 'a character with that style'. This is why I use this sort of thing to judge/predict people. Even the response you received, to me, just indicates 'NiKr plays more methodically, so maybe Kilik', but Mag doesn't think in the same way as you, literally it's required to not. It's not a matter of 'fault'. In order to SUCCEED at playing Siegfried, you HAVE to 'disregard opposing attacks', you have to be 'willing to make sweeping generalizations', and you have to be 'willing to retreat before making a big attempt at getting into the other person's conceptual space'. Mag is 'fighting correctly' for who Mag is. It's me that hasn't been. Except my main was talim in the last soul calibur lmao. You're still really annoying, but now at least I don't need to keep ignoring your posts... You're a Siegfried at heart, in my mind. And you're referring to SC6. I'm aware that people have Secondaries. Even your secondary was predictable to an extent.@NiKr the amount of information that has been basically jumpstarted into my brain from watching just TWO of Mag's matches is more than I can reasonably express, but to actually derail into 'I now have analysis' would make this thread so so much worse. I will say this though. And this is incontrovertible and provable. You are talking to a person who plays fighting games by 'trying to overpower the opponent with offense'. Siegfried does it with power and reach, Talim does it by 'constantly poking very quickly, trying to interrupt everything and respond faster with short strikes, and dodging out of the way of opponent moves pre-emptively'. Sound famililar?
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good And to follow up on that... people end up with entirely different perceptions of what fighting games are ABOUT based on what characters they play, the same as for classes in MMOs. So it would make sense for Mag to conclude 'you don't understand fighting games' when you have that response, because to a Siegfried player that usually is NOT how one plays. And similarly, most games have 'a character with that style'. This is why I use this sort of thing to judge/predict people. Even the response you received, to me, just indicates 'NiKr plays more methodically, so maybe Kilik', but Mag doesn't think in the same way as you, literally it's required to not. It's not a matter of 'fault'. In order to SUCCEED at playing Siegfried, you HAVE to 'disregard opposing attacks', you have to be 'willing to make sweeping generalizations', and you have to be 'willing to retreat before making a big attempt at getting into the other person's conceptual space'. Mag is 'fighting correctly' for who Mag is. It's me that hasn't been. Except my main was talim in the last soul calibur lmao.
Azherae wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good And to follow up on that... people end up with entirely different perceptions of what fighting games are ABOUT based on what characters they play, the same as for classes in MMOs. So it would make sense for Mag to conclude 'you don't understand fighting games' when you have that response, because to a Siegfried player that usually is NOT how one plays. And similarly, most games have 'a character with that style'. This is why I use this sort of thing to judge/predict people. Even the response you received, to me, just indicates 'NiKr plays more methodically, so maybe Kilik', but Mag doesn't think in the same way as you, literally it's required to not. It's not a matter of 'fault'. In order to SUCCEED at playing Siegfried, you HAVE to 'disregard opposing attacks', you have to be 'willing to make sweeping generalizations', and you have to be 'willing to retreat before making a big attempt at getting into the other person's conceptual space'. Mag is 'fighting correctly' for who Mag is. It's me that hasn't been.
NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good
Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
Azherae wrote: » Ah yes, classic. I will assume it is all the ones you lose.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good And to follow up on that... people end up with entirely different perceptions of what fighting games are ABOUT based on what characters they play, the same as for classes in MMOs. So it would make sense for Mag to conclude 'you don't understand fighting games' when you have that response, because to a Siegfried player that usually is NOT how one plays. And similarly, most games have 'a character with that style'. This is why I use this sort of thing to judge/predict people. Even the response you received, to me, just indicates 'NiKr plays more methodically, so maybe Kilik', but Mag doesn't think in the same way as you, literally it's required to not. It's not a matter of 'fault'. In order to SUCCEED at playing Siegfried, you HAVE to 'disregard opposing attacks', you have to be 'willing to make sweeping generalizations', and you have to be 'willing to retreat before making a big attempt at getting into the other person's conceptual space'. Mag is 'fighting correctly' for who Mag is. It's me that hasn't been. Except my main was talim in the last soul calibur lmao. You're still really annoying, but now at least I don't need to keep ignoring your posts... You're a Siegfried at heart, in my mind. And you're referring to SC6. I'm aware that people have Secondaries. Even your secondary was predictable to an extent.@NiKr the amount of information that has been basically jumpstarted into my brain from watching just TWO of Mag's matches is more than I can reasonably express, but to actually derail into 'I now have analysis' would make this thread so so much worse. I will say this though. And this is incontrovertible and provable. You are talking to a person who plays fighting games by 'trying to overpower the opponent with offense'. Siegfried does it with power and reach, Talim does it by 'constantly poking very quickly, trying to interrupt everything and respond faster with short strikes, and dodging out of the way of opponent moves pre-emptively'. Sound famililar? I'm curious which ones you watched. There are some fights I only play with one hand btw. Ah yes, classic. I will assume it is all the ones you lose.
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Ah yes, classic. I will assume it is all the ones you lose. In case you missed my previous post, did you play/know Tekken characters and does playing Bryan Fury fit the Leap Siegfried playstyle?
Mag7spy wrote: » Granted i have no clue where you are looking for it.
Azherae wrote: » I don't personally see you as a Bryan Fury, I would expect that's moreso because you don't know how to play fighting games. You probably play Jin now, or maybe Lee Chaolan, but again, doing the extrapolation the other way is much harder, because people don't always show you their personality properly on forums for a while.
JustVine wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » When I say fighting game elements or such it doesn't mean its a fighting game. I would know since I was top 10 in the world on soul calibur. Its simply about the flow and feel of the combat where you have elements where during this point if you use this skill it will link together well. The purpose to again to make it fluid and have more reaction. If you are removing rpg elements then you are just lacking design in a mmorpg, no one wants that. The fun is the different experiences, stats, classes, exploring, builds, etc. Also tab does not have more in common with a fighting game, in action style game does though but not to the level of a fighting game. Oh, so English actually is your second language then? (all the top players in Soul Calibur historically are Japanese or Korean afaik). Noaani wrote: » Azherae wrote: » SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc) But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me. All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying... I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game." This is a long explanation and I hate to 'try to influence by my experience' in this way but... I promise you that BDO is not like a fighting game. Not really. That's a thing that people who don't actually know how to play fighting games think when they LOOK at it. Fighting games are way wayyyyy harder than BDO. And they are harder in ways that, oddly, are more fitting for most MMOs than not. So in a very weird twist, you probably actually would want your MMO to be much more like a fighting game than BDO is. I don't know how to say the next part without being confusing so I'll just mention it and hope you believe me outright... Tab Target Games have more in common with most Fighting Games than BDO does. If BDO played more like an average Fighting Game, I assure you I'd like it a lot more. I have a question for you in regards to this. To people that know fighting games, they know the moves each character has, wha it situation each move is needed in, specifics like iframes (I assume this is a mechanic in fighting games, even if it has a different name), all of these things. To such players, this makes fighting games literally all about the correct use of abilities at the correct time. To me, this is a tab target MMO. However, to people that dont play fighting games, they are just games where you endlessly mash on buttons and see what happens. To them, I would think that they look, feel and play more like an action game than a tab target game. Would you agree with this? This is accurate but just like MMOs differ, fighting games differ, so it depends on which game you play, on average it is entirely correct though.
Mag7spy wrote: » When I say fighting game elements or such it doesn't mean its a fighting game. I would know since I was top 10 in the world on soul calibur. Its simply about the flow and feel of the combat where you have elements where during this point if you use this skill it will link together well. The purpose to again to make it fluid and have more reaction. If you are removing rpg elements then you are just lacking design in a mmorpg, no one wants that. The fun is the different experiences, stats, classes, exploring, builds, etc. Also tab does not have more in common with a fighting game, in action style game does though but not to the level of a fighting game.
Noaani wrote: » Azherae wrote: » SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc) But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me. All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying... I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game." This is a long explanation and I hate to 'try to influence by my experience' in this way but... I promise you that BDO is not like a fighting game. Not really. That's a thing that people who don't actually know how to play fighting games think when they LOOK at it. Fighting games are way wayyyyy harder than BDO. And they are harder in ways that, oddly, are more fitting for most MMOs than not. So in a very weird twist, you probably actually would want your MMO to be much more like a fighting game than BDO is. I don't know how to say the next part without being confusing so I'll just mention it and hope you believe me outright... Tab Target Games have more in common with most Fighting Games than BDO does. If BDO played more like an average Fighting Game, I assure you I'd like it a lot more. I have a question for you in regards to this. To people that know fighting games, they know the moves each character has, wha it situation each move is needed in, specifics like iframes (I assume this is a mechanic in fighting games, even if it has a different name), all of these things. To such players, this makes fighting games literally all about the correct use of abilities at the correct time. To me, this is a tab target MMO. However, to people that dont play fighting games, they are just games where you endlessly mash on buttons and see what happens. To them, I would think that they look, feel and play more like an action game than a tab target game. Would you agree with this?
Azherae wrote: » SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc) But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me. All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying... I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game." This is a long explanation and I hate to 'try to influence by my experience' in this way but... I promise you that BDO is not like a fighting game. Not really. That's a thing that people who don't actually know how to play fighting games think when they LOOK at it. Fighting games are way wayyyyy harder than BDO. And they are harder in ways that, oddly, are more fitting for most MMOs than not. So in a very weird twist, you probably actually would want your MMO to be much more like a fighting game than BDO is. I don't know how to say the next part without being confusing so I'll just mention it and hope you believe me outright... Tab Target Games have more in common with most Fighting Games than BDO does. If BDO played more like an average Fighting Game, I assure you I'd like it a lot more.
SirChancelot wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc) But I really don't want an MMO to be a fighting game... That's not really something that sounds fun to me. All the top games in the genre have been TAB, it works. If they want to replace auto attacks ( which have traditionally been boring fillers) with something more engaging like some action style combat that's cool (vermintide was fun as a melee slasher)... But a fighting game sounds annoying... I understand you and others are looking for it to evolve from the TAB it has been, but I hope it doesn't lose that MMO feel to try and be "akin to a fighting game."
Mag7spy wrote: » Based on these points positioning is a big part of BDO, depending on how a game is designed that is not something limited to tab and action can actually make it feel like a lot more of a fight akin to a fighting game. Tab may have a few skills with your aoe cones you don't know the range on until you get the feeling, but that is every skill in BDO combat. (debuffs exist in bdo as well as self buffs that are tied to your skills and you need to plan how to use them. They can give more dmg, more attack speed, reduce move speed, etc)
NiKr wrote: » As another piece of data, my reasoning behind choosing Bryan as my main back then was mainly about countering what my friends played. One played super cheese Jin (his electro punch and just basic annoying sweeping kick), another friend played Paul and the third played Hwoarang (the best player among us). From all the character in Tekken 3 Bryan had the biggest punches (or at least it seemed that way to me at the time) and he had good range on his attacks (mainly kicks). So I chose him, learned several of his moves (we mainly just button mashed back then so knowing proper moves gave you a ton of advantage) and just dominated my friends by timing my attacks correctly. Was beating the cheese friend 100% of the time, Paul ~70-80% if I positioned myself correctly and Hwoarang ~55%, mainly due to our range being similar and because the player was strong with that character. And I used a similar approach to my L2 gameplay. I picked classes that could keep distance, had a few "holding the enemy back" abilities and had good finishers that I could use at proper times. There were other classes that excelled at any one of those things, but I mainly went for those that could do all of them to a good degree. Maybe Tekken 3 had a better-suited character for me, but I wasn't serious enough about that game and Bryan did the job well enough for me to not want to switch to another character. Right now I'm planning to main Tank/Warrior in Ashes because it feels like it might have a similar gameplay style to what I described. If some other class has better augments for the Tank, I'll probably go with that one.
Azherae wrote: » Chances are that you aren't going to want Tank in Ashes with that response to FOO Jin and your other preferences. You're more likely to want Fighter with Tank or Summoner secondary (all this is of course based on my assumptions about what they will do for Archetypes entirely).
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Chances are that you aren't going to want Tank in Ashes with that response to FOO Jin and your other preferences. You're more likely to want Fighter with Tank or Summoner secondary (all this is of course based on my assumptions about what they will do for Archetypes entirely). Playing Tank fits my plans for the RP part of my gameplay so at least right now I wanna concentrate on that, but yeah, I'd be fine going with smth else if that fits my preferences better but I'll only know that once we have all the classes in testing. Back in L2 I played all classes quite extensively, but still had a "main" if I had freedom of choice when starting out on a new server. I'm very excited to play every class in the game and see what feels best to me. Can't wait for Alpha2
Azherae wrote: » I have a different expectation of "Fighter" in Ashes based on what we've seen so far and a lot of other inferences about what happens
Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be. As usual, your points are correct, if you are comparing BDO combat to the 'standard' of Tab Target Combat that you currently understand. You are absolutely winning against the Tab Strawman here in your arguments. No contest. That strawman is getting pwned every which way. Everything you have said is entirely consistent for 'the way a Siegfried views things having played primarily weaker Tab Target games'. Your usual argument is with Noaani about EQ2 mechanics. I am not here to repeat the claim that you don't understand EQ2 mechanics. Only to agree that if you do not count games you have not extensively played, everything you say is quite right. Can we discuss NWO instead? Do you think that BDO is more like a Fighting Game than NWO is? No longer at all talking about Tab vs Action. Just Action vs Action/Hybrid.
PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good I mean, its a base line... at least we know if he manages to read something written out he is capable of putting 2 and 2 together. Like others have said, it seems english isnt their first language as they keep ignoring peoples statment purposes, and constantly loops back around to bdo is the best combat example out there. When people don't understand nuance and try to take things literal, and trying to throw a slight on top of it lmao. "Others" Someone assuming something they don't know Yes... we are assuming things we dont know... because geting clear information from you is proving to be impossible. Idk. Im done here, the guy is hard to talk to, so i dont see why to put forth the effort. You like bdo. Good for you. All the rest of this thread is just talking in circles, and misunderstanding.
Mag7spy wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good I mean, its a base line... at least we know if he manages to read something written out he is capable of putting 2 and 2 together. Like others have said, it seems english isnt their first language as they keep ignoring peoples statment purposes, and constantly loops back around to bdo is the best combat example out there. When people don't understand nuance and try to take things literal, and trying to throw a slight on top of it lmao. "Others" Someone assuming something they don't know
PenguinPaladin wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good I mean, its a base line... at least we know if he manages to read something written out he is capable of putting 2 and 2 together. Like others have said, it seems english isnt their first language as they keep ignoring peoples statment purposes, and constantly loops back around to bdo is the best combat example out there.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be. As usual, your points are correct, if you are comparing BDO combat to the 'standard' of Tab Target Combat that you currently understand. You are absolutely winning against the Tab Strawman here in your arguments. No contest. That strawman is getting pwned every which way. Everything you have said is entirely consistent for 'the way a Siegfried views things having played primarily weaker Tab Target games'. Your usual argument is with Noaani about EQ2 mechanics. I am not here to repeat the claim that you don't understand EQ2 mechanics. Only to agree that if you do not count games you have not extensively played, everything you say is quite right. Can we discuss NWO instead? Do you think that BDO is more like a Fighting Game than NWO is? No longer at all talking about Tab vs Action. Just Action vs Action/Hybrid. It isn't a strawman I'm pointing out exactly points on both, Tab does not play anywhere akin to a fighting game. BDO is the closest example, just because its closer doesn't mean its a good thing it can have a lot of bad elements and good elements. But everyone has different taste as well on what they like. I could bring up more points but Those should be more than enough. I don't view any other mmo being closer to a fighting game, it being action doesn't make it closer. Perhaps blade and soul would be the next closest, but I haven't played it enough to fully judge all elements of it.
