Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be. As usual, your points are correct, if you are comparing BDO combat to the 'standard' of Tab Target Combat that you currently understand. You are absolutely winning against the Tab Strawman here in your arguments. No contest. That strawman is getting pwned every which way. Everything you have said is entirely consistent for 'the way a Siegfried views things having played primarily weaker Tab Target games'. Your usual argument is with Noaani about EQ2 mechanics. I am not here to repeat the claim that you don't understand EQ2 mechanics. Only to agree that if you do not count games you have not extensively played, everything you say is quite right. Can we discuss NWO instead? Do you think that BDO is more like a Fighting Game than NWO is? No longer at all talking about Tab vs Action. Just Action vs Action/Hybrid. It isn't a strawman I'm pointing out exactly points on both, Tab does not play anywhere akin to a fighting game. BDO is the closest example, just because its closer doesn't mean its a good thing it can have a lot of bad elements and good elements. But everyone has different taste as well on what they like. I could bring up more points but Those should be more than enough. I don't view any other mmo being closer to a fighting game, it being action doesn't make it closer. Perhaps blade and soul would be the next closest, but I haven't played it enough to fully judge all elements of it. You realize I can just sidestep/parry the leap, right? This is how you keep losing to Sophitia.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be. As usual, your points are correct, if you are comparing BDO combat to the 'standard' of Tab Target Combat that you currently understand. You are absolutely winning against the Tab Strawman here in your arguments. No contest. That strawman is getting pwned every which way. Everything you have said is entirely consistent for 'the way a Siegfried views things having played primarily weaker Tab Target games'. Your usual argument is with Noaani about EQ2 mechanics. I am not here to repeat the claim that you don't understand EQ2 mechanics. Only to agree that if you do not count games you have not extensively played, everything you say is quite right. Can we discuss NWO instead? Do you think that BDO is more like a Fighting Game than NWO is? No longer at all talking about Tab vs Action. Just Action vs Action/Hybrid. It isn't a strawman I'm pointing out exactly points on both, Tab does not play anywhere akin to a fighting game. BDO is the closest example, just because its closer doesn't mean its a good thing it can have a lot of bad elements and good elements. But everyone has different taste as well on what they like. I could bring up more points but Those should be more than enough. I don't view any other mmo being closer to a fighting game, it being action doesn't make it closer. Perhaps blade and soul would be the next closest, but I haven't played it enough to fully judge all elements of it.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be. As usual, your points are correct, if you are comparing BDO combat to the 'standard' of Tab Target Combat that you currently understand. You are absolutely winning against the Tab Strawman here in your arguments. No contest. That strawman is getting pwned every which way. Everything you have said is entirely consistent for 'the way a Siegfried views things having played primarily weaker Tab Target games'. Your usual argument is with Noaani about EQ2 mechanics. I am not here to repeat the claim that you don't understand EQ2 mechanics. Only to agree that if you do not count games you have not extensively played, everything you say is quite right. Can we discuss NWO instead? Do you think that BDO is more like a Fighting Game than NWO is? No longer at all talking about Tab vs Action. Just Action vs Action/Hybrid.
Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be.
Solvryn wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good I mean, its a base line... at least we know if he manages to read something written out he is capable of putting 2 and 2 together. Like others have said, it seems english isnt their first language as they keep ignoring peoples statment purposes, and constantly loops back around to bdo is the best combat example out there. When people don't understand nuance and try to take things literal, and trying to throw a slight on top of it lmao. "Others" Someone assuming something they don't know Yes... we are assuming things we dont know... because geting clear information from you is proving to be impossible. Idk. Im done here, the guy is hard to talk to, so i dont see why to put forth the effort. You like bdo. Good for you. All the rest of this thread is just talking in circles, and misunderstanding. I hope the devs skim right over the responses. I trust them to make the proper combat system for Ashes even if it causes people to not play.
PenguinPaladin wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good I mean, its a base line... at least we know if he manages to read something written out he is capable of putting 2 and 2 together. Like others have said, it seems english isnt their first language as they keep ignoring peoples statment purposes, and constantly loops back around to bdo is the best combat example out there. When people don't understand nuance and try to take things literal, and trying to throw a slight on top of it lmao. "Others" Someone assuming something they don't know Yes... we are assuming things we dont know... because geting clear information from you is proving to be impossible. Idk. Im done here, the guy is hard to talk to, so i dont see why to put forth the effort. You like bdo. Good for you. All the rest of this thread is just talking in circles, and misunderstanding.
Mag7spy wrote: » PenguinPaladin wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good I mean, its a base line... at least we know if he manages to read something written out he is capable of putting 2 and 2 together. Like others have said, it seems english isnt their first language as they keep ignoring peoples statment purposes, and constantly loops back around to bdo is the best combat example out there. When people don't understand nuance and try to take things literal, and trying to throw a slight on top of it lmao. "Others" Someone assuming something they don't know
PenguinPaladin wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good I mean, its a base line... at least we know if he manages to read something written out he is capable of putting 2 and 2 together. Like others have said, it seems english isnt their first language as they keep ignoring peoples statment purposes, and constantly loops back around to bdo is the best combat example out there.
NiKr wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh- So me saying "I don't play fighting games" tells you that I don't play fighting games? Seems good
Mag7spy wrote: » This is how I know you don't playing fighting games. -smh-
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be. As usual, your points are correct, if you are comparing BDO combat to the 'standard' of Tab Target Combat that you currently understand. You are absolutely winning against the Tab Strawman here in your arguments. No contest. That strawman is getting pwned every which way. Everything you have said is entirely consistent for 'the way a Siegfried views things having played primarily weaker Tab Target games'. Your usual argument is with Noaani about EQ2 mechanics. I am not here to repeat the claim that you don't understand EQ2 mechanics. Only to agree that if you do not count games you have not extensively played, everything you say is quite right. Can we discuss NWO instead? Do you think that BDO is more like a Fighting Game than NWO is? No longer at all talking about Tab vs Action. Just Action vs Action/Hybrid. It isn't a strawman I'm pointing out exactly points on both, Tab does not play anywhere akin to a fighting game. BDO is the closest example, just because its closer doesn't mean its a good thing it can have a lot of bad elements and good elements. But everyone has different taste as well on what they like. I could bring up more points but Those should be more than enough. I don't view any other mmo being closer to a fighting game, it being action doesn't make it closer. Perhaps blade and soul would be the next closest, but I haven't played it enough to fully judge all elements of it. You realize I can just sidestep/parry the leap, right? This is how you keep losing to Sophitia. Peanut gallery over here talking crap now. Still unsure what you are watching, I'm assuming you are using youtube and there is not much up there 1 high rank person who wasn't that good and records his wins. OR you are watching Beta footage i recorded where I didn't even know the command list of my character o.o
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be. As usual, your points are correct, if you are comparing BDO combat to the 'standard' of Tab Target Combat that you currently understand. You are absolutely winning against the Tab Strawman here in your arguments. No contest. That strawman is getting pwned every which way. Everything you have said is entirely consistent for 'the way a Siegfried views things having played primarily weaker Tab Target games'. Your usual argument is with Noaani about EQ2 mechanics. I am not here to repeat the claim that you don't understand EQ2 mechanics. Only to agree that if you do not count games you have not extensively played, everything you say is quite right. Can we discuss NWO instead? Do you think that BDO is more like a Fighting Game than NWO is? No longer at all talking about Tab vs Action. Just Action vs Action/Hybrid. It isn't a strawman I'm pointing out exactly points on both, Tab does not play anywhere akin to a fighting game. BDO is the closest example, just because its closer doesn't mean its a good thing it can have a lot of bad elements and good elements. But everyone has different taste as well on what they like. I could bring up more points but Those should be more than enough. I don't view any other mmo being closer to a fighting game, it being action doesn't make it closer. Perhaps blade and soul would be the next closest, but I haven't played it enough to fully judge all elements of it. You realize I can just sidestep/parry the leap, right? This is how you keep losing to Sophitia. Peanut gallery over here talking crap now. Still unsure what you are watching, I'm assuming you are using youtube and there is not much up there 1 high rank person who wasn't that good and records his wins. OR you are watching Beta footage i recorded where I didn't even know the command list of my character o.o Actually I'm just maneuvering you to the position I want. You began by claiming that you understand the situation better and were top 10 in Soul Calibur, you used a screenshot to prove this, you opened yourself up to me finding data, and you forgot or didn't understand how the scene works, how quickly I can get that a date parallel for your own screenshot, and used a shot that gave me your rank value. I'm just playing footsies at this point. You can't tell yet, but you're 'losing', if that was even relevant. If you figure out my 'gameplan' quickly enough you can still 'counter' it. And yeah, I'm that petty, so you can call me out for that as much as you like, I'll take it as a compliment. I just want you to stop misleading people, and this is the sort of thing I do anyway. Try this, here's my initial counter. If you were top at SC6 in a way that matters, and there are dozens of compilations of top players in SC6 from 1-2 months after the game's release (which is technically its peak since it wasn't a well received game overall), why wouldn't you be in them? Why would it be DIFFICULT to find footage of a top 10 player's matches online?
Azherae wrote: » So now we have multiple datapoints to help us actually advance discussion. Please note that Mag may not agree with the things I say or infer/imply, and that's entirely reasonable, anyone who cares can just decide who they believe in based on whatever, I won't try to convince based on specifics about Mag's play (but I will definitely infer and start trouble that way I think). Those who need additional visual proof data and explanation to make their decision can PM me, I am absolutely not willing to 'use the data I have to browbeat' here, when talking to non fighting gamers, because you're just not in a position to make critical assessments of my claims and would never be sure when I was exaggerating, biased, or lying. But we do know this. Mag's character and playstyle lead to the feeling that continued motion, the ability to quickly move into the next motion, and being able to convert risk into damage when the opponent responds incorrectly, are primary skills. These are things that are rooted in Siegfried/Talim mindset. They are correct entirely for those characters. They do not necessarily apply to Fighting Games as a whole nor to MMOs, but it gives us an insight into the feeling toward Tab Target gaming. Siegfried doesn't need to 'aim' as much. Talim does. Both these characters go THROUGH other people's attacks, not 'bait and punish', not 'defend and punish', not 'intimidate and advance while misleading'. They go THROUGH (in Talim's case you could argue 'around', usually over or under). So the result is that TO Mag, Tab Target games feel ridiculous. That makes sense, right? If you have a character that relies on 'moving through your attack because you chose an attack that they know how to outmaneuver' and another that, if given the option to 'cancel a long startup in order to mislead the enemy, would greatly benefit from this rather than having to take the full risk of that attack', you'd definitely think that any 'My attack just hits anyway' feeling would be bullshit to that player. Fighting Games are about many things. They are one of the most advanced and complex game types out there. I don't say this because I 'think other games are low skill'. It's rather the opposite. I play Fighting Games because they were the only game type that actually leads to the experience I want, for a very long time. You can see that reflected in Mag's perception too. PvE in Fighting Games is not hard, it just 'has patterns', and 'cheats'. As the person who likes both, I can tell you that I play MMOs with PvE that gets close to fighting game difficulty. They exist. They are rare. Mag has not played them, and would not expect them to be real. Everything is explained. Tab Target games are more like Fighting Games in TOTALITY than BDO is. But not 'Fighting Games as Mag plays them'.
Mag7spy wrote: » Fighting games can stop mid combo = cancels Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be. As usual, your points are correct, if you are comparing BDO combat to the 'standard' of Tab Target Combat that you currently understand. You are absolutely winning against the Tab Strawman here in your arguments. No contest. That strawman is getting pwned every which way. Everything you have said is entirely consistent for 'the way a Siegfried views things having played primarily weaker Tab Target games'. Your usual argument is with Noaani about EQ2 mechanics. I am not here to repeat the claim that you don't understand EQ2 mechanics. Only to agree that if you do not count games you have not extensively played, everything you say is quite right. Can we discuss NWO instead? Do you think that BDO is more like a Fighting Game than NWO is? No longer at all talking about Tab vs Action. Just Action vs Action/Hybrid. It isn't a strawman I'm pointing out exactly points on both, Tab does not play anywhere akin to a fighting game. BDO is the closest example, just because its closer doesn't mean its a good thing it can have a lot of bad elements and good elements. But everyone has different taste as well on what they like. I could bring up more points but Those should be more than enough. I don't view any other mmo being closer to a fighting game, it being action doesn't make it closer. Perhaps blade and soul would be the next closest, but I haven't played it enough to fully judge all elements of it. You realize I can just sidestep/parry the leap, right? This is how you keep losing to Sophitia. Peanut gallery over here talking crap now. Still unsure what you are watching, I'm assuming you are using youtube and there is not much up there 1 high rank person who wasn't that good and records his wins. OR you are watching Beta footage i recorded where I didn't even know the command list of my character o.o Actually I'm just maneuvering you to the position I want. You began by claiming that you understand the situation better and were top 10 in Soul Calibur, you used a screenshot to prove this, you opened yourself up to me finding data, and you forgot or didn't understand how the scene works, how quickly I can get that a date parallel for your own screenshot, and used a shot that gave me your rank value. I'm just playing footsies at this point. You can't tell yet, but you're 'losing', if that was even relevant. If you figure out my 'gameplan' quickly enough you can still 'counter' it. And yeah, I'm that petty, so you can call me out for that as much as you like, I'll take it as a compliment. I just want you to stop misleading people, and this is the sort of thing I do anyway. Try this, here's my initial counter. If you were top at SC6 in a way that matters, and there are dozens of compilations of top players in SC6 from 1-2 months after the game's release (which is technically its peak since it wasn't a well received game overall), why wouldn't you be in them? Why would it be DIFFICULT to find footage of a top 10 player's matches online? Claim and fact are two different things remember that as you try to find a way around. You are being cryptic is what you are doing because you understand I'm right, but you need to find a path around to make it seem like your point is right and mine is not because you already committed and don't want to back down now. I except some form of disingenuous aspects tbh but it doesn't really matter as points can be broken and shown to be false. Trust me I know you are very petty its why its hard to have a more fair discussion as I've said before its not about understanding, but you wanting to win and prove your idea is right. Why would it be easy to find someone, and if you did what would the context be. Just because someone is top 10 on the world leaderboards doesn't mean you will find videos everywhere from them. If they are popular you might else you might have a difficult finding much of their gameplay. It is different situation from situation and ranked matches aren't the best as you can't have a good chat with the person you are fighting. Ill be replying to your other post soon and break down the major points.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Fighting games can stop mid combo = cancels Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be. As usual, your points are correct, if you are comparing BDO combat to the 'standard' of Tab Target Combat that you currently understand. You are absolutely winning against the Tab Strawman here in your arguments. No contest. That strawman is getting pwned every which way. Everything you have said is entirely consistent for 'the way a Siegfried views things having played primarily weaker Tab Target games'. Your usual argument is with Noaani about EQ2 mechanics. I am not here to repeat the claim that you don't understand EQ2 mechanics. Only to agree that if you do not count games you have not extensively played, everything you say is quite right. Can we discuss NWO instead? Do you think that BDO is more like a Fighting Game than NWO is? No longer at all talking about Tab vs Action. Just Action vs Action/Hybrid. It isn't a strawman I'm pointing out exactly points on both, Tab does not play anywhere akin to a fighting game. BDO is the closest example, just because its closer doesn't mean its a good thing it can have a lot of bad elements and good elements. But everyone has different taste as well on what they like. I could bring up more points but Those should be more than enough. I don't view any other mmo being closer to a fighting game, it being action doesn't make it closer. Perhaps blade and soul would be the next closest, but I haven't played it enough to fully judge all elements of it. You realize I can just sidestep/parry the leap, right? This is how you keep losing to Sophitia. Peanut gallery over here talking crap now. Still unsure what you are watching, I'm assuming you are using youtube and there is not much up there 1 high rank person who wasn't that good and records his wins. OR you are watching Beta footage i recorded where I didn't even know the command list of my character o.o Actually I'm just maneuvering you to the position I want. You began by claiming that you understand the situation better and were top 10 in Soul Calibur, you used a screenshot to prove this, you opened yourself up to me finding data, and you forgot or didn't understand how the scene works, how quickly I can get that a date parallel for your own screenshot, and used a shot that gave me your rank value. I'm just playing footsies at this point. You can't tell yet, but you're 'losing', if that was even relevant. If you figure out my 'gameplan' quickly enough you can still 'counter' it. And yeah, I'm that petty, so you can call me out for that as much as you like, I'll take it as a compliment. I just want you to stop misleading people, and this is the sort of thing I do anyway. Try this, here's my initial counter. If you were top at SC6 in a way that matters, and there are dozens of compilations of top players in SC6 from 1-2 months after the game's release (which is technically its peak since it wasn't a well received game overall), why wouldn't you be in them? Why would it be DIFFICULT to find footage of a top 10 player's matches online? Claim and fact are two different things remember that as you try to find a way around. You are being cryptic is what you are doing because you understand I'm right, but you need to find a path around to make it seem like your point is right and mine is not because you already committed and don't want to back down now. I except some form of disingenuous aspects tbh but it doesn't really matter as points can be broken and shown to be false. Trust me I know you are very petty its why its hard to have a more fair discussion as I've said before its not about understanding, but you wanting to win and prove your idea is right. Why would it be easy to find someone, and if you did what would the context be. Just because someone is top 10 on the world leaderboards doesn't mean you will find videos everywhere from them. If they are popular you might else you might have a difficult finding much of their gameplay. It is different situation from situation and ranked matches aren't the best as you can't have a good chat with the person you are fighting. Ill be replying to your other post soon and break down the major points. Were you seriously not aware that people can see your rank matches in SC6? Like, a person using the game client can find a replay with your name on it, and watch the replay. So it is possible for a player to make compilations of top players by... doing this, and then posting those videos. Or, perhaps, they might keep their compilations instead of posting them and be available to, say, share those videos with an analyst they know on request... I'm sorry that you didn't know this, because it implies that you might have had footage of your matches out there in the wild available for others to see that you either didn't know existed or would prefer that others didn't have access to. Do bear it in mind for certain modern fighters, once you play, anyone in the world can watch your matches for a while, and there may be information about your play floating around out there for others to do research on.
SongRune wrote: » There is no Argument Canceling on Ashes Of Creation Forums.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Fighting games can stop mid combo = cancels Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be. As usual, your points are correct, if you are comparing BDO combat to the 'standard' of Tab Target Combat that you currently understand. You are absolutely winning against the Tab Strawman here in your arguments. No contest. That strawman is getting pwned every which way. Everything you have said is entirely consistent for 'the way a Siegfried views things having played primarily weaker Tab Target games'. Your usual argument is with Noaani about EQ2 mechanics. I am not here to repeat the claim that you don't understand EQ2 mechanics. Only to agree that if you do not count games you have not extensively played, everything you say is quite right. Can we discuss NWO instead? Do you think that BDO is more like a Fighting Game than NWO is? No longer at all talking about Tab vs Action. Just Action vs Action/Hybrid. It isn't a strawman I'm pointing out exactly points on both, Tab does not play anywhere akin to a fighting game. BDO is the closest example, just because its closer doesn't mean its a good thing it can have a lot of bad elements and good elements. But everyone has different taste as well on what they like. I could bring up more points but Those should be more than enough. I don't view any other mmo being closer to a fighting game, it being action doesn't make it closer. Perhaps blade and soul would be the next closest, but I haven't played it enough to fully judge all elements of it. You realize I can just sidestep/parry the leap, right? This is how you keep losing to Sophitia. Peanut gallery over here talking crap now. Still unsure what you are watching, I'm assuming you are using youtube and there is not much up there 1 high rank person who wasn't that good and records his wins. OR you are watching Beta footage i recorded where I didn't even know the command list of my character o.o Actually I'm just maneuvering you to the position I want. You began by claiming that you understand the situation better and were top 10 in Soul Calibur, you used a screenshot to prove this, you opened yourself up to me finding data, and you forgot or didn't understand how the scene works, how quickly I can get that a date parallel for your own screenshot, and used a shot that gave me your rank value. I'm just playing footsies at this point. You can't tell yet, but you're 'losing', if that was even relevant. If you figure out my 'gameplan' quickly enough you can still 'counter' it. And yeah, I'm that petty, so you can call me out for that as much as you like, I'll take it as a compliment. I just want you to stop misleading people, and this is the sort of thing I do anyway. Try this, here's my initial counter. If you were top at SC6 in a way that matters, and there are dozens of compilations of top players in SC6 from 1-2 months after the game's release (which is technically its peak since it wasn't a well received game overall), why wouldn't you be in them? Why would it be DIFFICULT to find footage of a top 10 player's matches online? Claim and fact are two different things remember that as you try to find a way around. You are being cryptic is what you are doing because you understand I'm right, but you need to find a path around to make it seem like your point is right and mine is not because you already committed and don't want to back down now. I except some form of disingenuous aspects tbh but it doesn't really matter as points can be broken and shown to be false. Trust me I know you are very petty its why its hard to have a more fair discussion as I've said before its not about understanding, but you wanting to win and prove your idea is right. Why would it be easy to find someone, and if you did what would the context be. Just because someone is top 10 on the world leaderboards doesn't mean you will find videos everywhere from them. If they are popular you might else you might have a difficult finding much of their gameplay. It is different situation from situation and ranked matches aren't the best as you can't have a good chat with the person you are fighting. Ill be replying to your other post soon and break down the major points. Were you seriously not aware that people can see your rank matches in SC6? Like, a person using the game client can find a replay with your name on it, and watch the replay. So it is possible for a player to make compilations of top players by... doing this, and then posting those videos. Or, perhaps, they might keep their compilations instead of posting them and be available to, say, share those videos with an analyst they know on request... I'm sorry that you didn't know this, because it implies that you might have had footage of your matches out there in the wild available for others to see that you either didn't know existed or would prefer that others didn't have access to. Do bear it in mind for certain modern fighters, once you play, anyone in the world can watch your matches for a while, and there may be information about your play floating around out there for others to do research on. Actually I forgot about that, though I thought that only related to your own matches and not others. You are telling me there is a site where i can view all matches where is it?
Mag7spy wrote: » SongRune wrote: » There is no Argument Canceling on Ashes Of Creation Forums. Idk the logic is weird, I'm unsure why they are trying to say tab target is closer to fighting games then action combat in BDO. Since they are all agreeing (trying to use numbers against me) then there shouldn't be complaining if Ashes goes more towards combat like soul caliber for example and all elements that comes with it. I wouldn't complain xD Skills don't need a target, blocking, stopping mid combo, parrying, side step, slowing back peddling, etc, animation lock. Time to take tab to the next level, the fighting game style way since they are so similar apparently lol.
Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Fighting games can stop mid combo = cancels Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be. As usual, your points are correct, if you are comparing BDO combat to the 'standard' of Tab Target Combat that you currently understand. You are absolutely winning against the Tab Strawman here in your arguments. No contest. That strawman is getting pwned every which way. Everything you have said is entirely consistent for 'the way a Siegfried views things having played primarily weaker Tab Target games'. Your usual argument is with Noaani about EQ2 mechanics. I am not here to repeat the claim that you don't understand EQ2 mechanics. Only to agree that if you do not count games you have not extensively played, everything you say is quite right. Can we discuss NWO instead? Do you think that BDO is more like a Fighting Game than NWO is? No longer at all talking about Tab vs Action. Just Action vs Action/Hybrid. It isn't a strawman I'm pointing out exactly points on both, Tab does not play anywhere akin to a fighting game. BDO is the closest example, just because its closer doesn't mean its a good thing it can have a lot of bad elements and good elements. But everyone has different taste as well on what they like. I could bring up more points but Those should be more than enough. I don't view any other mmo being closer to a fighting game, it being action doesn't make it closer. Perhaps blade and soul would be the next closest, but I haven't played it enough to fully judge all elements of it. You realize I can just sidestep/parry the leap, right? This is how you keep losing to Sophitia. Peanut gallery over here talking crap now. Still unsure what you are watching, I'm assuming you are using youtube and there is not much up there 1 high rank person who wasn't that good and records his wins. OR you are watching Beta footage i recorded where I didn't even know the command list of my character o.o Actually I'm just maneuvering you to the position I want. You began by claiming that you understand the situation better and were top 10 in Soul Calibur, you used a screenshot to prove this, you opened yourself up to me finding data, and you forgot or didn't understand how the scene works, how quickly I can get that a date parallel for your own screenshot, and used a shot that gave me your rank value. I'm just playing footsies at this point. You can't tell yet, but you're 'losing', if that was even relevant. If you figure out my 'gameplan' quickly enough you can still 'counter' it. And yeah, I'm that petty, so you can call me out for that as much as you like, I'll take it as a compliment. I just want you to stop misleading people, and this is the sort of thing I do anyway. Try this, here's my initial counter. If you were top at SC6 in a way that matters, and there are dozens of compilations of top players in SC6 from 1-2 months after the game's release (which is technically its peak since it wasn't a well received game overall), why wouldn't you be in them? Why would it be DIFFICULT to find footage of a top 10 player's matches online? Claim and fact are two different things remember that as you try to find a way around. You are being cryptic is what you are doing because you understand I'm right, but you need to find a path around to make it seem like your point is right and mine is not because you already committed and don't want to back down now. I except some form of disingenuous aspects tbh but it doesn't really matter as points can be broken and shown to be false. Trust me I know you are very petty its why its hard to have a more fair discussion as I've said before its not about understanding, but you wanting to win and prove your idea is right. Why would it be easy to find someone, and if you did what would the context be. Just because someone is top 10 on the world leaderboards doesn't mean you will find videos everywhere from them. If they are popular you might else you might have a difficult finding much of their gameplay. It is different situation from situation and ranked matches aren't the best as you can't have a good chat with the person you are fighting. Ill be replying to your other post soon and break down the major points. Were you seriously not aware that people can see your rank matches in SC6? Like, a person using the game client can find a replay with your name on it, and watch the replay. So it is possible for a player to make compilations of top players by... doing this, and then posting those videos. Or, perhaps, they might keep their compilations instead of posting them and be available to, say, share those videos with an analyst they know on request... I'm sorry that you didn't know this, because it implies that you might have had footage of your matches out there in the wild available for others to see that you either didn't know existed or would prefer that others didn't have access to. Do bear it in mind for certain modern fighters, once you play, anyone in the world can watch your matches for a while, and there may be information about your play floating around out there for others to do research on. Actually I forgot about that, though I thought that only related to your own matches and not others. You are telling me there is a site where i can view all matches where is it? This right here is the 'losing to Sophitia' moment. Now you're the one off balance and open. I'll let you recover instead, as I said, I'm not a bully. You can go back to compiling your counters to my other post. I remind you again that I'm absolutely interested in having a real discussion about this. It could lead to much deeper understanding on all fronts. I just don't like when you're misleading, whether intentionally or not. Therefore you get what I'm sure you know in the scene we refer to as 'The CallOut'.
Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Fighting games can stop mid combo = cancels Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Still can't agree with this point, BDO is much closer to a fighting game (Does not mean its a fighting game) then any tab target mmorpg. Push and Pull Though attacking you have more of a push on someone's defense requiring you you be able to anticipate how they are going to attack you Low, mid, High. Though of course it isn't limited to that as side stepping your attack can give them an opportunity to hit you on a opening. Rather then simply just blocking their attacks if you know what they are going to use in there combo or movement you can also duck or jump over attacks. Relation to Tab- Though there is some positioning in a fight and you may be pressured to move back, you are mostly limited to any skills you have to stop a damage attack. Ie throwing a cc at the right time, maybe you might have a movement skill, buff skill to lower damage or create out of cc. Relationship to BDO - First most active block having full control when you want to stop damage on most classes that have it or using your frontal guard skills. When people attack in BDO there are opening and gaps just like a fighting game you can take advantage of if they over committed to a skill you can side step it and hit them, or side step and get past their guard to deal damage to them. There is a lot more feeling and purpose to pressure. Just as a fighting game you can see gaps in peoples combos and moves and take advantage of that opening CC Relation to tab - CC aren't that complex you throw a cc to stun the person and you can do your damage. There are cc limits of course and everyone has a form of combo (skill rotation) they could do. There are skills to break out of cc and protections you can do as set by your skill Relation to BDO- CC are a lot more complex and more akin to a fighting game as unlike tab games a lot of moves have ccs on them. Just like in a fighting game if you are getting hit you can't do anything, it is akin to BDO with the insane amount of ccs on all skills. The system is set so you can get a stiffen and two harder cc in, but each type of cc is different (float, stiffen, knockdown, knockback, stun, freeze) allowing you you to do different effective combos on people based on the type of cc. Looking at soul calibur you have different types off cc int he game as well, knock ups, high knock ups, stun, stiffen which leads to different combos based on the cc CC element is pretty important as this completely changes the feel and flow how a game is when you have the level of cc closer to a fighting game. If you were getting cc'd by every skill in tab it would be a pretty bad experience. Positioning -Keeping this one short and goes to one of the most important elements Relation to tab game - You can't preemptively use your skill on a player and have them walk into it. Relation to BDO - You can preemptively use your skill and start it up and have a player walk into it leading to cc . It makes a lot of importance knowing your distance of your movement and your skills. As well as understanding what the opponent might do to counter you as it could lead to a huge disadvantage in a fight. I guess ill leave it at that, post is already bigger then it should be. As usual, your points are correct, if you are comparing BDO combat to the 'standard' of Tab Target Combat that you currently understand. You are absolutely winning against the Tab Strawman here in your arguments. No contest. That strawman is getting pwned every which way. Everything you have said is entirely consistent for 'the way a Siegfried views things having played primarily weaker Tab Target games'. Your usual argument is with Noaani about EQ2 mechanics. I am not here to repeat the claim that you don't understand EQ2 mechanics. Only to agree that if you do not count games you have not extensively played, everything you say is quite right. Can we discuss NWO instead? Do you think that BDO is more like a Fighting Game than NWO is? No longer at all talking about Tab vs Action. Just Action vs Action/Hybrid. It isn't a strawman I'm pointing out exactly points on both, Tab does not play anywhere akin to a fighting game. BDO is the closest example, just because its closer doesn't mean its a good thing it can have a lot of bad elements and good elements. But everyone has different taste as well on what they like. I could bring up more points but Those should be more than enough. I don't view any other mmo being closer to a fighting game, it being action doesn't make it closer. Perhaps blade and soul would be the next closest, but I haven't played it enough to fully judge all elements of it. You realize I can just sidestep/parry the leap, right? This is how you keep losing to Sophitia. Peanut gallery over here talking crap now. Still unsure what you are watching, I'm assuming you are using youtube and there is not much up there 1 high rank person who wasn't that good and records his wins. OR you are watching Beta footage i recorded where I didn't even know the command list of my character o.o Actually I'm just maneuvering you to the position I want. You began by claiming that you understand the situation better and were top 10 in Soul Calibur, you used a screenshot to prove this, you opened yourself up to me finding data, and you forgot or didn't understand how the scene works, how quickly I can get that a date parallel for your own screenshot, and used a shot that gave me your rank value. I'm just playing footsies at this point. You can't tell yet, but you're 'losing', if that was even relevant. If you figure out my 'gameplan' quickly enough you can still 'counter' it. And yeah, I'm that petty, so you can call me out for that as much as you like, I'll take it as a compliment. I just want you to stop misleading people, and this is the sort of thing I do anyway. Try this, here's my initial counter. If you were top at SC6 in a way that matters, and there are dozens of compilations of top players in SC6 from 1-2 months after the game's release (which is technically its peak since it wasn't a well received game overall), why wouldn't you be in them? Why would it be DIFFICULT to find footage of a top 10 player's matches online? Claim and fact are two different things remember that as you try to find a way around. You are being cryptic is what you are doing because you understand I'm right, but you need to find a path around to make it seem like your point is right and mine is not because you already committed and don't want to back down now. I except some form of disingenuous aspects tbh but it doesn't really matter as points can be broken and shown to be false. Trust me I know you are very petty its why its hard to have a more fair discussion as I've said before its not about understanding, but you wanting to win and prove your idea is right. Why would it be easy to find someone, and if you did what would the context be. Just because someone is top 10 on the world leaderboards doesn't mean you will find videos everywhere from them. If they are popular you might else you might have a difficult finding much of their gameplay. It is different situation from situation and ranked matches aren't the best as you can't have a good chat with the person you are fighting. Ill be replying to your other post soon and break down the major points. Were you seriously not aware that people can see your rank matches in SC6? Like, a person using the game client can find a replay with your name on it, and watch the replay. So it is possible for a player to make compilations of top players by... doing this, and then posting those videos. Or, perhaps, they might keep their compilations instead of posting them and be available to, say, share those videos with an analyst they know on request... I'm sorry that you didn't know this, because it implies that you might have had footage of your matches out there in the wild available for others to see that you either didn't know existed or would prefer that others didn't have access to. Do bear it in mind for certain modern fighters, once you play, anyone in the world can watch your matches for a while, and there may be information about your play floating around out there for others to do research on. Actually I forgot about that, though I thought that only related to your own matches and not others. You are telling me there is a site where i can view all matches where is it? This right here is the 'losing to Sophitia' moment. Now you're the one off balance and open. I'll let you recover instead, as I said, I'm not a bully. You can go back to compiling your counters to my other post. I remind you again that I'm absolutely interested in having a real discussion about this. It could lead to much deeper understanding on all fronts. I just don't like when you're misleading, whether intentionally or not. Therefore you get what I'm sure you know in the scene we refer to as 'The CallOut'. Honestly there isn't much point in having giant text like this back and forth its not going to get anywhere. You can see the huge difference between this gameplay and there isn't really much more to say.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLYKR0qSH9shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR4qAR6RRN4&t=428s To say this is even close to this kind of gameplay is silly. If you want to argue something that doesn't make sense here on the forums that is for you. I've said my point, i could type of story on more but not much point.
NiKr wrote: » Btw, @Noaani @Azherae did EQ2/FF11 have character attacks/abilities that couldn't hit in close range but did hit in long range? Don't think L2 had those kinds of attacks. It was mainly "if you're in range to hit smth, you can hit it no matter how close your target is to you".
NiKr wrote: » Btw, Noaani Azherae did EQ2/FF11 have character attacks/abilities that couldn't hit in close range but did hit in long range? Don't think L2 had those kinds of attacks. It was mainly "if you're in range to hit smth, you can hit it no matter how close your target is to you".
