Node system question

Hi, I was watching Asmon react to Lazypeon's video about AoC talking about nodes and he raised a concern how meta-gaming might influence the game in that people will just gather around the most "efficient" nodes and do that over and over again.

I am just wondering cause I think the same will happen if the developers have thought of this and perhaps if there are ways to make sure this would not ruin what the experience is supposed to do.

Maybe something like diminishing returns on the rewards of a specific node after repeating it so many times or reliant on player density perhaps? I am not sure.

Anyway this is my first post I made an account just to put this here as I am not sure where to put feedback. I hope it is useful

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Warth

Dygz wrote: »

Haha. I mean... what Asmon says in the video is kinda intersting, but once a Node gets destroyed, it's not so easy to just rebuild it back up. The vassal Nodes will become dominant.
Plus, a Metro is one-fifth of the map, so, every Metro should have some ports.

Won't the Ports still belong to the vassal nodes @Dygz ? That would still mean, that resources would have to be transported from the vassal node with the port to the parent node via Caravan.

In order to do something a bit further away, you'd also still have to move between vassal and metro in order to get to the ocean. I do believe, that coastal access will make it easier to get both your goods moved and reduces your travel time to points of interest overall based on the fact, that this has literally been the case with every game that features naval content/parts of the map. (Obviously unconfirmed as our knowledge regarding the sea/naval mechanics is still rather limited)

If that's the case, then i'd hope that Intrepid balances this out with resources being more plentiful in the center of continent. That way both coastal and inner-continental nodes would advantages for themselves.

Bigger question for me is how they make nodes at the edge of the map as viable as central ones.
Especially in a game with limited fast travel and localized storage, being in the corner of the map is a big disadvantage. Maybe through certain, high importance resources, that spawn mostly on the border/edges of the map?

PenguinPaladin

Warth wrote: »

Bigger question for me is how they make nodes at the edge of the map as viable as central ones.
Especially in a game with limited fast travel and localized storage, being in the corner of the map is a big disadvantage. Maybe through certain, high importance resources, that spawn mostly on the border/edges of the map?

This is a counter intuitive thought.

To add special recources around the edges, now makes being in the middle pointless. Your concern comes from a place assuming you want your goods to go to somewhere far away, but you arent concidering the reasons for why the goods may be needing to be moved. You are just assuming, goods must be moved (lacking purpose) and using ocean to move them must be best (lacking conditions)

Why would i want to move goods out of my home node area?

Why would i want to move goods away from my local metropolis?

If im simply a merchant, trying to get the best deal sure. But if you are a merchant without affiliations or loyalty to any nodes then surly you will just take your goods to who is paying the highest price.... wouldnt it make sense for a land locked node near the edge of the map to be paying damn good money for goods seeing as its out of the way and hard to travel to?

And lets continue this train of thought. Is a nkde in the south west corner of the map, is known to be hard to get goods too and tends to pay a good price. What if a lot of merchants got it in their heads that today is the day to make a few bucks?

Now the node has a surplus of goods. But as a merchant, you understand that this node is hard to bring goods to. So if you wait, the price will surly come back to where you want to sell at. And you know that moving your goods again will take more time, and effort, and risk them being stolen again... so you have the choice. If you really need money now, you cohld surly try and run your goods back somewhere else for a better price. Or you can just wait with your good here and sell them when the market changes.

Its a truly changing economy after all.

Also, living in a more difficult to reach place means less competition over content and gatherables. So it may still attract players to such places.

Scarbeus

Having seen the Asmongold video being mentioned the node comment is 100% speculation. His point is over time various nodes may be seen as more valuable based on their location and what they have in them. However we have no idea what each node will have in it so I'm not sure it's worth discussing this until we have all played A2 for a while to see for ourselves.

Also, if this is some form of effect on which nodes people fight more over then some settlements will be sieged less meaning whoever owns them or stores their resources there will see that node as more valuable for that aspect alone.

As for the tax system, as long as you can cancel citizenship then if the mayor ups the taxes too high they will have the risk of players leaving and they wont get the income they want to upgrade the town. Basically creating an economic collapse and a bad reputation. Even if they lower the taxes again players might not be sure if they want to choose that node again under their rule in case they up taxes again. This game will have politics.

Dygz

Warth wrote: »

Won't the Ports still belong to the vassal nodes @Dygz ? That would still mean, that resources would have to be transported from the vassal node with the port to the parent node via Caravan.

The vassal Node will be adjacent and will probably not be the same Node Type.
So, it's not going to be in the exact same prime location. And then... that Node could be destroyed in a couple months as well. It's not like the Nodes delevel when you lose a Siege. And you can just maintain the same spot and quickly build it back up to its former glory.

Warth wrote: »

In order to do something a bit further away, you'd also still have to move between vassal and metro in order to get to the ocean. I do believe, that coastal access will make it easier to get both your goods moved and reduces your travel time to points of interest overall based on the fact, that this has literally been the case with every game that features naval content/parts of the map. (Obviously unconfirmed as our knowledge regarding the sea/naval mechanics is still rather limited)

I don't know what that's supposed to mean. The vassal Nodes will be a bit further away from the destroyed Node.
We'll have to see if it's the coastal Nodes the absolutely make it easier. It's possible that individual interior Mayors will be able to negotiate stronger, more influential trade routes via land.

Warth wrote: »

If that's the case, then i'd hope that Intrepid balances this out with resources being more plentiful in the center of continent. That way both coastal and inner-continental nodes would advantages for themselves.

A lot of that will depend on how the Mayors and Governments negotiate their trade routes.
Might also depend on the demands of the Monarchs. And will certainly depend on how long a City or Metro can avoid destruction.

Warth wrote: »

Bigger question for me is how they make nodes at the edge of the map as viable as central ones.
Especially in a game with limited fast travel and localized storage, being in the corner of the map is a big disadvantage. Maybe through certain, high importance resources, that spawn mostly on the border/edges of the map?

More likely, that's going to be up to how well the Mayors govern and how long the City/Metro can avoid destruction.

Noaani

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

. But if every thread was first responded to by a wiki link and nothing else, then what are the forums?

It wasnt the first reply.

I know this, because I waited until there were other replies.

Cat Quiver

these forums are such a shitshow

Asgerr

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

blimp wrote: »

Hi, I was watching Asmon react to Lazypeon's video about AoC talking about nodes

I suggest doing some first hand research and form your own opinions, rather than relying on the opinion of an entertainer.

I suggest starting here https://ashesofcreation.wiki/

Step 1. Ask a question.

Step 2. read the entire wiki so noaani doesnt have to answer your questions.

Everyone starts having interest somewhere.

Are you saying there is something wrong with suggesting someone go out and form their own opinion on a topic rather than essentially watching some watch someone else interpret something that someone else said?

I mean, Asmon isnt exactly clued in to, well, anything at all really (other than how to exploit an impressionable audience). Using him as a source for information is always going to cause problems.

Case in point, the question in the OP doesnt make any sense. I cant answer it at all because it simply doesnt have an answer. This is why I suggested the wiki. The "answer" you gave isnt an answer, because you dont understand the question. You dont understand the question because the OP doesnt understand the question (they are just regurgitating it). In order for you to understand the question, and thus be able to answer it, the OP needs to understand the question first.

Rather than giving the OP a non-answer, as you seem to think is the best course of action here, I thin the best thing to do is send the OP off to work out what the question is that they are trying to ask, so that I actually COULD then answer it for them.

Unlike you, I am not going to attempt to answer a question with bullshit.

The difference is understanding someones familiarity with the topic and how you treat them. Im trying to be friendly. I wont speak for you. This is a public forum if you dont want to help someone, dont post in their thread, that would be my take on it. But obviously you go ahead and live your life Noaani.

He will only be helpful if the help you need is understanding why DPS meters and combat trackers are necessary if not mandatory. For all else read the wiki, yes.

Noaani

Asgerr wrote: »

He will only be helpful if the help you need is understanding why DPS meters and combat trackers are necessary if not mandatory. For all else read the wiki, yes.

Nah, I'll also help if you need to gain an understanding on the importance of limited instancing in an MMO, the added benefit of also having open world encounters, the evils of automated group forming systems, the issues with the family summons, the fact that the corruption system is fine as it is for now, the subjective opinion that the class name "tank" is fine because that's what people will call them regardless or the need for a reasonable pace of content additions.

I'll also happily offer up an opinion from the perspective of a top end raider, should the situation call for it.

But yeah, other than that, just read the wiki.

Funny thing is, I've had a number of long debates with people on these forums, where it is obvious there is something they are missing - a fact about the game (as we know it) that they have an incorrect assumption about.

The longer this assumption has hold in the person,the harder it is to shake - and the harder it is for them to stick around afterwards.

Now, I dont think anyone here thinks the OP is well informed - I dont even think the OP thinks they are.

As such, the best thing any of us can do for them is to replace that misinformation/false assumptions with accurate information. Thing is, you cant bash someone over the head with facts and expect them to accept them - they need to come to their own realization in their own time.

So, with this in mind, if anyone can suggest anything that is objectively better for the OP other than to show them where they can correct those false assumptions in their own time, should they want to, I'd love to hear it.

Or, you know, just carry on flailing aimlessly in an attempt to bash me for doing the most useful thing for the OP...

PenguinPaladin

Noaani wrote: »

Asgerr wrote: »

He will only be helpful if the help you need is understanding why DPS meters and combat trackers are necessary if not mandatory. For all else read the wiki, yes.

Nah, I'll also help if you need to gain an understanding on the importance of limited instancing in an MMO, the added benefit of also having open world encounters, the evils of automated group forming systems, the issues with the family summons, the fact that the corruption system is fine as it is for now, the subjective opinion that the class name "tank" is fine because that's what people will call them regardless or the need for a reasonable pace of content additions.

I'll also happily offer up an opinion from the perspective of a top end raider, should the situation call for it.

But yeah, other than that, just read the wiki.

Funny thing is, I've had a number of long debates with people on these forums, where it is obvious there is something they are missing - a fact about the game (as we know it) that they have an incorrect assumption about.

The longer this assumption has hold in the person,the harder it is to shake - and the harder it is for them to stick around afterwards.

Now, I dont think anyone here thinks the OP is well informed - I dont even think the OP thinks they are.

As such, the best thing any of us can do for them is to replace that misinformation/false assumptions with accurate information. Thing is, you cant bash someone over the head with facts and expect them to accept them - they need to come to their own realization in their own time.

So, with this in mind, if anyone can suggest anything that is objectively better for the OP other than to show them where they can correct those false assumptions in their own time, should they want to, I'd love to hear it.

Or, you know, just carry on flailing aimlessly in an attempt to bash me for doing the most useful thing for the OP...

Idk man. I assume people alive in 2022 realize wiki's exist. Id expect if someone wanted to read the ashes encyclopedia then they would do so. I imagine people come to the forums over that to have conversation, and socialize as they deepen their understanding of the game. But i can be wrong. Maybe people really dont know that there is a wiki, and strickly come here hoping someone gives them the link.

Noaani

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

I assume people alive in 2022 realize wiki's exist.

I make no such assumption about Asmons audience.

The have a history of coming here not knowing what they are talking about, and not knowing the wiki exists.

But sure, people do sometimes come here looking for a discussion on something. That's great. That doesnt mean that every reply needs to pander to that, nor does it exclude the possibility that they may want to inform them self for the impending discussion.

There is literally no reason to have a go at someone for suggesting a third party learn a little about a topic they have expressed an interest in.

That is what I did here, and thst is what you did here.

SaltyOnigiri

I understand both sides here. I personally love using screenshots from the wiki to validate claims I make in chat. I’ll also post links to “specific” wiki articles in case people want to read where I got info from.

However, just pulling up the wiki overall and saying the equivalent of “stop being a sheep and look it up” makes people nervous to post and can come across as rude. When I first started, I asked a really dumb question that honestly didn’t make sense based on a video.

Both SongRune and Dygz were kind enough to explain how the system works and it actually got me more hyped for the game.

I’d also like to mention that in the chat SongRune used a screenshot from the wiki to validate that I was misinformed. Anyway what I’m saying is you can use the wiki to create meaningful forum discussions in a way that keeps new people still feeling involved and excited to participate!

Ludullu

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

I assume people alive in 2022 realize wiki's exist

Asmon himself literally says in the video "oh shit I didn't even know wiki existed"

Like, yeah, logically one would assume that each and every game has at least some form of fan wiki. But most people don't even fucking try looking for it. I've seen countless threads at this point where people had no clue that wiki existed. And AoC's wiki is promoted on each damn corner of the internet related to the game.

PenguinPaladin

Noaani wrote: »

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

I assume people alive in 2022 realize wiki's exist.

I make no such assumption about Asmons audience.

The have a history of coming here not knowing what they are talking about, and not knowing the wiki exists.

But sure, people do sometimes come here looking for a discussion on something. That's great. That doesnt mean that every reply needs to pander to that, nor does it exclude the possibility that they may want to inform them self for the impending discussion.

There is literally no reason to have a go at someone for suggesting a third party learn a little about a topic they have expressed an interest in.

That is what I did here, and thst is what you did here.

Again you bash the OP for where he came from.

Dont get me wrong, i started shit with you. I did so because i didnt find you friendly or inviting to someone obviously new to the forums, and i perfer the forums to be a place that would be friendly at the very least to new people. Give them a chance and all.

Im not going to act like i am a saint. Because ive been giving you shit all day, obviously not a nice thing to do. But you've shown the forums who you are and what you stand for. I feel at least aquainted with you. The literal only thing we know of OP if that he watches Asmongolds interview/ ashes videos.... which get recomended after watching literally any ashes video........ but i mean yeah. Ill apologize for being so confontational to you Noaani, but at least i have an inkling of your opinions, and am picking on you for being inhospitable to someone obviously uninformed.

The guy literally never came back to make a second comment on his own post, and you again bash him again for watching Asmongold.

How this could have gone.
*Wiki link*
"Me being a smart ass, implying your kinda being a dick."
"My bad, didnt intend to be a dick."

How it actually went:
*wiki link*
"Your a dick"
"Im a dick and im proud!"

Noaani

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

But you've shown the forums who you are and what you stand for.

Yeah.

Objective facts.

I dont think anyone that has spent more than a few minutes on these forums wouldn't be aware of the fact that objective facts are basically what I stand for.

I didnt "bash" the OP for where they came from, I pointed out that their source isnt a particularly good source - a required step if you are going to suggest someone go to a primary source (or, a secondary source referencing primary sources, in this case).

If I said "hey, Asmon is great, well informed and absolutely had the best interests of his audience in mind!", then the OP would have every reason to turn down a different source, in favor of one that I just said was well informed.

In order to make the suggestion of picking up a different source viable to the OP, the suggestion that their current source was not ideal was indeed necessary.

It's almost like you dont think I put any thought in to posts.

Tou should also probably be embarrassed that 25 words and a link require this much explaining for you to understand.

It's also as if you think I care if people like you think I come across as a dick or not. It may come as a shock, but I dont much care about subjective opinions of others.

PenguinPaladin

Noaani wrote: »

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

But you've shown the forums who you are and what you stand for.

Yeah.

Objective facts.

I dont think anyone that has spent more than a few minutes on these forums wouldn't be aware of the fact that objective facts are basically what I stand for.

I didnt "bash" the OP for where they came from, I pointed out that their source isnt a particularly good source - a required step if you are going to suggest someone go to a primary source (or, a secondary source referencing primary sources, in this case).

If I said "hey, Asmon is great, well informed and absolutely had the best interests of his audience in mind!", then the OP would have every reason to turn down a different source, in favor of one that I just said was well informed.

In order to make the suggestion of picking up a different source viable to the OP, the suggestion that their current source was not ideal was indeed necessary.

It's almost like you dont think I put any thought in to posts.

Tou should also probably be embarrassed that 25 words and a link require this much explaining for you to understand.

It's also as if you think I care if people like you think I come across as a dick or not. It may come as a shock, but I dont much care about subjective opinions of others.

Hehe, neither do i. Why do you think ive dragged myself through your mud today?

At the end of the day, you came off a little dick-ish so i gave you that same energy back. You seem to have not liked the treatment, so maybe you think about that a bit? Or not. Doesnt matter. Ive pretty much accepted that the only people who come around these forums lack social skills in general. And some of them wear it like a badge of honor.

Asgerr

Noaani wrote: »

PenguinPaladin wrote: »

I assume people alive in 2022 realize wiki's exist.

I make no such assumption about Asmons audience.

The have a history of coming here not knowing what they are talking about, and not knowing the wiki exists.

But sure, people do sometimes come here looking for a discussion on something. That's great. That doesnt mean that every reply needs to pander to that, nor does it exclude the possibility that they may want to inform them self for the impending discussion.

There is literally no reason to have a go at someone for suggesting a third party learn a little about a topic they have expressed an interest in.

That is what I did here, and thst is what you did here.

Except in the very same video that OP is referencing, Asmon reacts to LazyePeon's video where they do mention the Wiki and Asmon even comments on how good it looks.

Ludullu

Asgerr wrote: »

Except in the very same video that OP is referencing, Asmon reacts to LazyePeon's video where they do mention the Wiki and Asmon even comments on how good it looks.

Yeah, and says that he had no clue about it before the video. So even he, who's allegedly very interested in the game, didn't know about it. And most of twitch chat doesn't even watch any other videos about the game and only sees Asmon reactions, so of course they wouldn't know about the wiki if he never did.

Which then leads to the situation where one of the thousands of people that saw Asmon's reaction get deeply interested in the game and go to reddit/forum/discord and ask the classic questions or bring up old topics (not necessarily saying that OP did in this case).

PenguinPaladin

NiKr wrote: »

Asgerr wrote: »

Except in the very same video that OP is referencing, Asmon reacts to LazyePeon's video where they do mention the Wiki and Asmon even comments on how good it looks.

Yeah, and says that he had no clue about it before the video. So even he, who's allegedly very interested in the game, didn't know about it. And most of twitch chat doesn't even watch any other videos about the game and only sees Asmon reactions, so of course they wouldn't know about the wiki if he never did.

Which then leads to the situation where one of the thousands of people that saw Asmon's reaction get deeply interested in the game and go to reddit/forum/discord and ask the classic questions or bring up old topics (not necessarily saying that OP did in this case).

I dont mind the mentioning of the wiki. Is just the way it was done seemed pretty "i dont even want to bother with speaking to you"

The exact same post with a link to the nodes page of the wiki, i would have let slide. Or just different wording than being so dismissal to someone obviously new.

Regardless. Here we are. And im just as stubborn as Noaani, so if we want to commit to a 15 year argument about honestly, like the most unheated confrontation, then im all for it. Unless i get bored. Then its over between us.

CROW3

To be fair, the wiki is the second site when you google ‘Ashes of Creation’ so it’s not exactly hiding in plain sight.

But it’s good to be kind. How about you both take a time out, then we’ll get some ice cream?

For the OP: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Nodes

Ludullu

CROW3 wrote: »

then we’ll get some ice cream?

Only if you're paying.

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