Ranger stealth

Rather than just going invisible, I think it would be a more interesting mechanic if a ranger had an ability to change either their cloak/cape/clothes camo to better suit the terrain they are in.

For example - you are about to start a fight in a forested area, you spot who you are going to fight a ways off and hit your camo ability. your cloak takes on the color of the trees and bark around you and it turns off your name above your head until you fire your first shot.

The fight starts not going your way so you retreat to more mountainous terrain and break line of sight and camo again to better hide from the people chasing you.

I think this could be a more interesting mechanic and might be possible with how they have done seasons in the game and changing how things look.

id love to hear others thoughts on this. thanks.

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CROW3

Well, Pathfinder is a derivative of DnD. Rangers - going back to 2nd edition - have always had access to some form of ‘move silently’ and ‘hide in shadows.’ This has been translated to stealth in many games - since it’s a lazy way to manage a camouflage system.

I’d be happy to keep stealth as a rogue-only ability, if Rangers have a camouflage ability in the wilderness that allows them to hide their nameplate, and dye their cloak (or clothes) in shades of their current environment.

Songcaller

Is it an oasis? Is it a cactus? Is it a palm tree? No its rangers in camouflage.

daveywavey

bloodprophet wrote: »

This isn't D&D or LOTR.

Seems like it was mentioned early on it was a rouge primary archetype skill.

Rangers don't have "Stealth". They have a Camouflage ability.
Full "Stealth" will still be the Rogue skill.

Dygz

Rangers have a Camouflage ability that grants Stealth at a distance.

Warth

Important Note:
Camouflage has been used as a mechanic that makes you appear stealth-ed from a distance but normally visible from up close rather then the character playing dress-up like its surroundings. Steven, by the quote he used, seems like he has adopted the same interpretation of the world "camouflage".

Happymeal2415

Im pretty sure Steven said a couple live streams ago during q and a that stealth was not full invisibility. Curious as to what the difference between camo and stealth will be

Dizz1

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

Im pretty sure Steven said a couple live streams ago during q and a that stealth was not full invisibility. Curious as to what the difference between camo and stealth will be

Maybe like predator the movie.

Solmyr

100% agree with the OP, I don't understand why it can't just be physical camouflage. Not only does it fit with the theme of a ranger much better than some generic spell, they've already shown the tech to make clothing shift color based on the season.

Warth

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

Im pretty sure Steven said a couple live streams ago during q and a that stealth was not full invisibility. Curious as to what the difference between camo and stealth will be

didnt we already see it in action during both the Apocalypse test as well as the rogue cinematic?
While probably not in its final form, i do not expect them to deviate from it conceptually.

In both, you could see the shrouds/deflected presence of a stealthed unit, but it wasnt easy to spot by any means.

Warth

ChaIk wrote: »

100% agree with the OP, I don't understand why it can't just be physical camouflage. Not only does it fit with the theme of a ranger much better than some generic spell, they've already shown the tech to make clothing shift color based on the season.

for one: its significantly more effort to implement for barely any return.
Whether its well executed physical camouflage or a simple stealth effect, in the grand scheme of things, the end result is the same game play wise. All the effort would literally just add a little flavor.

A real camouflage effect would have to differ based on:

Time of Day (Lighting)
Weather
the 18 Biomes
Season

Not saying its not possible, but Id rather have them work on things they actually need to do, rather than things that are just added work for barely any benefit.

Solmyr

Warth wrote: »

ChaIk wrote: »

100% agree with the OP, I don't understand why it can't just be physical camouflage. Not only does it fit with the theme of a ranger much better than some generic spell, they've already shown the tech to make clothing shift color based on the season.

for one: its significantly more effort to implement for barely any return.
Whether its well executed physical camouflage or a simple stealth effect, in the grand scheme of things, the end result is the same game play wise. All the effort would literally just add a little flavor.

A real camouflage effect would have to differ based on:
Time of Day (Lighting)

Weather

the 18 Biomes

Season

Not saying its not possible, but Id rather have them work on things they actually need to do, rather than things that are just added work for barely any benefit.

You're right that real camouflage would work differently depending on the environment. That's the interesting part that you don't have when it's just an invisibility spell. Actually having to pay attention to your surroundings and plan your hiding spot accordingly is a lot more engaging than just pressing the 'enable transparency' button.

Now it definitely would be more work, but not because the mantle would have to match its environment - again, they already showed off the tech for that exact function on wearable items. The trickiest thing would probably be dealing with glowing spell effects and/or emissive shaders on your weapons/armor.

I'm not married to this specific idea, it's just that the current plan of giving the ranger a downgraded version of rogue's stealth feels a bit cheap.

Dygz

I don’t know that Camouflage is a downgraded form of Stealth. It’s a different form of Stealth. We have to see it in action.
Hopefully, in one month.

Dolyem

It'd be cool if they had the ability to do a color/texture sampler like in digital art where you could click somewhere on the terrain and that textures/colors your equipment

CROW3

Dolyem wrote: »

It'd be cool if they had the ability to do a color/texture sampler like in digital art where you could click somewhere on the terrain and that textures/colors your equipment

That’s what I’d imagine with a camouflage ability, there’s a cast bar as if studying the region, then a blend of those colors are applied to your clothes & gear.

Songcaller

Removal of name tags and health is powerful at range anyway. The camo costume or whatever it is would just be a novelty after that. A ranger can't use a bow prone so open spaces should offer no camo at all.

CROW3

Neurath wrote: »

Removal of name tags and health is powerful at range anyway. The camo costume or whatever it is would just be a novelty after that. A ranger can't use a bow prone so open spaces should offer no camo at all.

The cactus with a long bow may be a give-away, but the onus is on the guy with the arrows stuck in him.

Songcaller

We have had cosmetics with like leaves and stuff (Old Py-Rai concepts) so its not a stretch too far to expect a similar setup for a ranger, however, I still prefer Longbow styled bow users (Spikes in front, Metal Armour to protect from crossbows) or Persian Horse Archers (Heavier Armour and Parthian Shot). I guess the ranger could also shoot from a mount but we'll have to see.

Tragnar

I'd really hate for a camouflage to be implemented in a manner of lowered visibility. This is just saying that for pvp you should change your own graphical settings to negate a class mechanic.

I'd rather have the ranger stealth be an invisibility for players that are a certain distance away

Happymeal2415

Warth wrote: »

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

Im pretty sure Steven said a couple live streams ago during q and a that stealth was not full invisibility. Curious as to what the difference between camo and stealth will be

didnt we already see it in action during both the Apocalypse test as well as the rogue cinematic?
While probably not in its final form, i do not expect them to deviate from it conceptually.

For sure. I do remember the predator cinematic. However the stream I'm referring to was this year where as the cinematic and apoc was years ago now. Either way I don't really know was just a curious thought.

Barab

Giving range a hard coded stealth mode in a mmo with pvp is a huge balancing nightmare. I can see it now with 40% of the player base playing Legolas elf ranger / rogues with fast mobility, long range dps, and stealth as it will be easy mode for most players.

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