Azherae wrote: » To be clear, this is a thing both sides face as a problem, 'KarmaBombing' is the other side of it.
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » To be clear, this is a thing both sides face as a problem, 'KarmaBombing' is the other side of it. I don't know the exact details of karmabombing in BDO (mainly because I forgot them already), but to me it always seemed like a "lack of skill" issue rather than anything else. If you had to PK someone who's being a nuisance - you've already lost the "pvx" interaction.
Warth wrote: » Dizz wrote: » I think Intrepid want to make a PvX game, but is now an era that a PvX game able to live and shine? I'm not feel good about it. Because players now more willing to play game with "game modes" in stead of a single game world players share and play to each other. To me, I feel is some players are glass heart and some players are just don't know the line where is fun and where is toxic, in short most people lost the golden spirit to have a real PvX mmorpg. Azherae wrote: » And we will all just hope that there are a lot of players like you, or that however many there are, is enough. That's all I meant. But the moment one shuts down the option of 'rewarding high PvE skill with more interesting challenge consistently', some players will play less, or not at all. And many people are familiar with PvP-focused players as 'the types of players who will take every advantage even to what they consider an unsportsmanlike degree', so encountering those players would be a negative for them. I mean, it's a negative for me and if Ashes' systems result in too many of them, I'm not playing either. To be clear, this is a thing both sides face as a problem, 'KarmaBombing' is the other side of it. @Dizz @Azherae i quoted both of you, as the comment followed the same sentiment. Whether there is a community large enough to support this type of game or not? Well Intrepid thinks so, that is why they are creating a game like this. But who really knows? If success was the only metric, then creating a pc only mmorpg is probably one of the last things you want to create in the first place. Im all for Intrepid giving it a shot. I personally believe that you will find more than sufficient players interested, if executed properly and Intrepid is one of the few dev studios who have a shot at doing that. But my opinion in this regard matters as little as the opinion of anybody else. If it fails, then well wait for the next, just like we have been for the past X years.
Dizz wrote: » I think Intrepid want to make a PvX game, but is now an era that a PvX game able to live and shine? I'm not feel good about it. Because players now more willing to play game with "game modes" in stead of a single game world players share and play to each other. To me, I feel is some players are glass heart and some players are just don't know the line where is fun and where is toxic, in short most people lost the golden spirit to have a real PvX mmorpg.
Azherae wrote: » And we will all just hope that there are a lot of players like you, or that however many there are, is enough. That's all I meant. But the moment one shuts down the option of 'rewarding high PvE skill with more interesting challenge consistently', some players will play less, or not at all. And many people are familiar with PvP-focused players as 'the types of players who will take every advantage even to what they consider an unsportsmanlike degree', so encountering those players would be a negative for them. I mean, it's a negative for me and if Ashes' systems result in too many of them, I'm not playing either. To be clear, this is a thing both sides face as a problem, 'KarmaBombing' is the other side of it.
Warth wrote: » (watched it partially, not fully) I did watch your interview and I dont think your concerns were addressed adequately back then at all and i understand why you are discontent. Some changes they do might put me in a similar position so there certainly is sympathy, even when to some extent not seeing eye to eye with the points you make.
Warth wrote: » I wouldnt say the game completely changed direction, but there certainly have been directional pivots and amendments to thing stated in 2017. Which i guess is the nature of a development such as this.
Azherae wrote: » If they follow you just to disrupt you and reduce your efficiency more, what would you suggest? As usual, this question is not sarcastic.
NiKr wrote: » Azherae wrote: » If they follow you just to disrupt you and reduce your efficiency more, what would you suggest? As usual, this question is not sarcastic. How do looting rights work in BDO? Cause I'm used to the 40/60 dmg split, so it was always a skill issue for me. If I can't outpace the dps of the annoying guy - yes, I "lose" the pvx interaction and either move to a different place or suggest farming together, or ask a friend to come farm with me so that we can outpace the annoying guy together. If BDO's rights are on "who hits first" basis, then yeah, I can definitely see how this kind of action would be quite detrimental to the original farmer. Though iirc BDO also has channels which kinda defeats the whole point of karmabombing imo. Though maybe there's some limitations on changing channels that I'm forgetting.
Mag7spy wrote: » Whoever does the most damage wins, granted most things you are farming dies in a few or 1 hit. If it is an alite mob you can steal it if you out gear and deal more damage it is fun . If you feel they did most damage you kill them and let the mob reset, i did that at the swamp fogans.
ChipsAhoy007 wrote: » "It makes sense in from a gameplay perspective". What kind of gameplay perspective though?
ChipsAhoy007 wrote: » Does something like what JamesSunderland thought up really seperate PvP and PvE players and does it encourage true multiplayer?
Warth wrote: » In L2? Killing for something like this was highly discouraged/very rare. Basically the meta to it was inhibiting the other persons farming, stealing his mobs and making it not worthwhile to be there without killing him as the karma penalty wasnt worth it for the most part. With this you essentially made him leave or potentially even baited him into attacking you.
Noaani wrote: » And yet by Archeage, the meta was to just kill them and not think twice about it.
Dygz wrote: » I mean... it seems to me that Ashes is designed to have PvX gameplay for PvPers.
George_Black wrote: » When was the last time you played an mmo (not survival games) where you could customize your playstyle, have a good looking character and hopefully good looking abilities, build a ship a home and a caravan, contribute to your city, lose them to some assholes, fight them back and mb take whats theirs?
George_Black wrote: » You quoted me before noanni but I let it slide, but it seems to me that you, like some others, cant see the big picture. People will come to play AoC no matter how some here cry about pvp oceans, no instanced content, no rp servers, no dps meters etc etc etc. I dont pay attention to all the "I won't play", or "you wont get many of these type of players". This game will be the most alive feeling mmo (even without all the lame real life simulation systems suggested from time to time from people that want for example to weave baskets as a profession). Start getting the big picture kids, and the reason for all the systems. If AoC polishes things this will be the only mmo.
JamesSunderland wrote: » Reading the recent threads regarding the Lawless Open Sea, i saw a sentiment from people more PvE oriented, it seems like they believe that the open seas are a area with PvX more tilted towards PvP High Risk vs High Reward and it made think of the possibility of a Area with PvX more tilted towards PvE High Risk vs High Reward. In this thread, i would like people to discuss and give their opinions and ideas towards the concept of "PvX more tilted towards PvE High Risk vs High Reward".
George_Black wrote: » People will come to play AoC no matter how some here cry about pvp oceans, no instanced content, no rp servers, no dps meters etc etc etc. I dont pay attention to all the "I won't play", or "you wont get many of these type of players".
Okeydoke wrote: » A million times this. The economic threats and intimidation are so old, weak and tired. Some people masking it behind a supposed genuine worry the game will fail, nonsense, most are just making economic threats and insinuations to try to get their way.
Dizz wrote: » Azherae wrote: » Dizz wrote: » PvX means a game is made with PvP and PvE cross to each other no matter what kind player you are, which means if you are a player only feel joy in PvP than PvE or PVP than PvE Ashes of Creation might not your game, and a well made PvX game will make sure no matter what content you doing you won't always 100% avoid the PvP or PvE part. A lot of games tried to make PvX before so Ashes of Creation is not special in anyway, it's special because Intrepid trying to make a PvX type of game that already not a majority taste for a long time and so call MMORPG genre is dying and games we can see now are full of shit in general in this era. So PvX is a game type not really easy to have fun for hardcore PvP/PvE players which means players only want to do PvP or PvE and don't want the other part, to those kind of players you need to really understand that before you give your opinions. Like open sea is a higher risk and higher return zone, it's just what we know for sure is that they choose to make open sea a auto flagging pvp zone to represent the higher risk for now, maybe the monsters are also much danger than monsters on land which means it's maybe won't work like a heavy PvP zone. If the thing is that because there is a content leans more to PvP so the game needs a content leans more to PvE as a counter, Ashes of Creation will not far to become just a game have PvP and PvE part and call itself PvX like other shit games. Too much hardcore PvP/PvE players here in official forum and want to make Ashes of Creation their game instead of make it fun, it's just too much "I don't play like that way so I don't want that content" BS like PvPer don't do PvE contents or PvEer don't want PvP contents cross to PvE contents or even they think PvPers are toxic etc, if these BS is truth that most players are just like what they said then Ashes of Creation is already dead. Well, if it is relevant or gives you any 'comfort' at all, my group and I are definitely 'full PvX players'. The main reason I don't mention it is because the response I usually get from 'hardcore' players is to 'assign us to the other camp' if I bring up anything I think doesn't support PvX properly. I hope there are a lot of players like me, but I'm starting to worry that Ashes isn't actually designed for that player type. This worry doesn't have much basis, though, moreso 'born of the lack of information from Intrepid'. It could be that most of the 'hardcores' are going to be the ones very disappointed. I think I hope that's not true, but I'm not sure how good/popular Ashes will be if it isn't. Well, I usually agree those opinions you gave, but those too much relate to fighting game I stay as natural, so yes I can feel you are a PvX player. I think Intrepid want to make a PvX game, but is now an era that a PvX game able to live and shine? I'm not feel good about it. Because players now more willing to play game with "game modes" in stead of a single game world players share and play to each other. To me, I feel is some players are glass heart and some players are just don't know the line where is fun and where is toxic, in short most people lost the golden spirit to have a real PvX mmorpg.
Azherae wrote: » Dizz wrote: » PvX means a game is made with PvP and PvE cross to each other no matter what kind player you are, which means if you are a player only feel joy in PvP than PvE or PVP than PvE Ashes of Creation might not your game, and a well made PvX game will make sure no matter what content you doing you won't always 100% avoid the PvP or PvE part. A lot of games tried to make PvX before so Ashes of Creation is not special in anyway, it's special because Intrepid trying to make a PvX type of game that already not a majority taste for a long time and so call MMORPG genre is dying and games we can see now are full of shit in general in this era. So PvX is a game type not really easy to have fun for hardcore PvP/PvE players which means players only want to do PvP or PvE and don't want the other part, to those kind of players you need to really understand that before you give your opinions. Like open sea is a higher risk and higher return zone, it's just what we know for sure is that they choose to make open sea a auto flagging pvp zone to represent the higher risk for now, maybe the monsters are also much danger than monsters on land which means it's maybe won't work like a heavy PvP zone. If the thing is that because there is a content leans more to PvP so the game needs a content leans more to PvE as a counter, Ashes of Creation will not far to become just a game have PvP and PvE part and call itself PvX like other shit games. Too much hardcore PvP/PvE players here in official forum and want to make Ashes of Creation their game instead of make it fun, it's just too much "I don't play like that way so I don't want that content" BS like PvPer don't do PvE contents or PvEer don't want PvP contents cross to PvE contents or even they think PvPers are toxic etc, if these BS is truth that most players are just like what they said then Ashes of Creation is already dead. Well, if it is relevant or gives you any 'comfort' at all, my group and I are definitely 'full PvX players'. The main reason I don't mention it is because the response I usually get from 'hardcore' players is to 'assign us to the other camp' if I bring up anything I think doesn't support PvX properly. I hope there are a lot of players like me, but I'm starting to worry that Ashes isn't actually designed for that player type. This worry doesn't have much basis, though, moreso 'born of the lack of information from Intrepid'. It could be that most of the 'hardcores' are going to be the ones very disappointed. I think I hope that's not true, but I'm not sure how good/popular Ashes will be if it isn't.
Dizz wrote: » PvX means a game is made with PvP and PvE cross to each other no matter what kind player you are, which means if you are a player only feel joy in PvP than PvE or PVP than PvE Ashes of Creation might not your game, and a well made PvX game will make sure no matter what content you doing you won't always 100% avoid the PvP or PvE part. A lot of games tried to make PvX before so Ashes of Creation is not special in anyway, it's special because Intrepid trying to make a PvX type of game that already not a majority taste for a long time and so call MMORPG genre is dying and games we can see now are full of shit in general in this era. So PvX is a game type not really easy to have fun for hardcore PvP/PvE players which means players only want to do PvP or PvE and don't want the other part, to those kind of players you need to really understand that before you give your opinions. Like open sea is a higher risk and higher return zone, it's just what we know for sure is that they choose to make open sea a auto flagging pvp zone to represent the higher risk for now, maybe the monsters are also much danger than monsters on land which means it's maybe won't work like a heavy PvP zone. If the thing is that because there is a content leans more to PvP so the game needs a content leans more to PvE as a counter, Ashes of Creation will not far to become just a game have PvP and PvE part and call itself PvX like other shit games. Too much hardcore PvP/PvE players here in official forum and want to make Ashes of Creation their game instead of make it fun, it's just too much "I don't play like that way so I don't want that content" BS like PvPer don't do PvE contents or PvEer don't want PvP contents cross to PvE contents or even they think PvPers are toxic etc, if these BS is truth that most players are just like what they said then Ashes of Creation is already dead.
