Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!
Options
Make sieges not instanced
Strevi
Member
I see that instanced city defense is being considered.
"The majority (~80%) of content in Ashes of Creation is open-world but there may be instanced battles within castle and node sieges"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_sieges
Why not make them happen in open-world?
Cannot be a performance issue because players are present on the server anyway. Can the server not handle the event?
For immersion, it would be better to see the siege happening, as you approach the city. And then decide what to do.
Finding a way to enter the city and join the defenders could be a challenge in itself.
Or a big party when it arrives to the siege location, could help from outside too.
"The majority (~80%) of content in Ashes of Creation is open-world but there may be instanced battles within castle and node sieges"
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_sieges
Why not make them happen in open-world?
Cannot be a performance issue because players are present on the server anyway. Can the server not handle the event?
For immersion, it would be better to see the siege happening, as you approach the city. And then decide what to do.
Finding a way to enter the city and join the defenders could be a challenge in itself.
Or a big party when it arrives to the siege location, could help from outside too.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
0
Comments
It would be great to have it open world just like in L2. I wonder if there is a technical reason for it.
We will see.
It would be a bit jarring to have either an invisible wall or parallel world for the entire node while it's ongoing if you're a non-participant trying to walk in.
Maybe they'll be a bit more immersive and just have war barricades around the whole node to prevent non-participants entering.
In L2 the big alliances would sweep some castles in the last 15 minutes with huge numbers.
The defenders of each castle had to stay on their castles of course. They couldnt unite.
So basically in the last 15 minutes of the siege period you'd see one alliance capturing and establishing a defence for each castle one at a time.
Perhaps if IS wants to make this content instanced it is so that attackers and defenders both stay at one castle.
In the early years of L2 seeing unexpected reinforcements during a siege was great, great server stories and gameplay. But my most recent memories were of quiet 105 minutes of siege with a rush at the last 15 minutes. It was almost guaranteed that 6/8 of the castles of the game would change hands due to the last 15min zergfest. The first two castle defenders that got zerged in the last 15 mins would get to reclaim them. The other 6 would get zerged and taken.
Games are not always %100 about immersion. There are many other reasons it may make sense to design the game with instanced PvP events like this.
just off the top of my head:
Many services are shut down during the siege declaration period, and instead are replaced by preparation quests or services for the siege.[31]
Once a siege is declared, players are prohibited from moving goods out of depositories within the node.[32][33][34]
So there not be quite a normal life for PvE players during this phase.
And those who want structures PvP, I assume you mean instances, those can be added separately, as arenas or special instances
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas
Castle sieges are expected to have at minimum 250x250 players to be on a single battlefield, with the possibility of increasing this to 500x500 over time.[29]
That means 500 to 1000 players. Quite a large number. The entire world will have 10 times more players.
I have no idea how a server is running but I doubt it runs on a single CPU.
I thought the L2 seige battlefields were instanced. Didn`t it go through a stage of ejecting players not signed up from the battle field?
Voice of reason thank you, i have hope for humanity now lol. Sieges are serious business you don't need people trolling them that aren't even part of the war and having targets that are immune or dmg or can't be hit further confusing you.
im guessing it is different per area so we wouldnt know until we see each area.
I think they're not Open World, because you declare the siege through great effort (not just click a button, there are quests and tasks and payments to be completed) and it will trigger at a prime-time on the weekends so that all players involved may attend.
Now imagine all of that, and then some random uninvolved Guild, which you or your opponent had never heard of, show up just to ruin it for both sides. Plus, how would the game then know that who captured the throne room of a Castle is in fact one of the people who declared the siege, and not some random guy who snuck in during the battle, to take the Castle for himself on a technicality?
The servers can take it, but for the fairness of the competition between groups, leaving such important PvP to be open world, would be a griefing magnet.
I try to explain it in a very simple manner:
Outsourcing it onto a different instance allows you to provide it with a dedicated Siege Server.
This prevents the primary game play server for this world to be overburdened and allows to dedicate more calculation resources towards the siege.
Else a node can fall because the entire map comes and attacks them.
I see it now as a better decision as the survival depends on both combat and how defenses were prepared in advance:
"Treasury funds can be invested into improving node defensive structures, such as stronger walls and gates, traps, and siege equipment.[8][9][11]"
And those defenses might be ensured by players who are not very good at PvP while the battle itself will allow only the best fighters.
Throne room is not mentioned though on the page I am reading. They say instead:
A node siege will last for up to two hours.[67]
- Defenders will be required to hold a central point in the node for the duration of the siege or they must destroy the hedquarters of the attacking army.[86][35]
- Attackers will need to gain access to the node then reach a central point where they must channel a 5 minute cast on the defender's flag. This cast can not be interrupted by CC but can be interrupted through death of the caster.[86][35]
I assume that players who arrives late to the node or log-in during the fight, can still enter the instance if the number of participants is below 250 (or 500) because:
"Citizens of the node or provincial nodes being attacked are automatically registered as defenders.[28]"
but they can be useful outside too if the the number is capped
"Players could potentially intercept stragglers with the guild war or flagging system en route to the siege field.[65]"
So a player who is just curious what happens there, may register on one of the side and enter the instance while the battle is in progress? Then he can leave and register on the other side?
I see that the registered status can be canceled (else this makes no sense):
Players may choose to respawn at their HQ as long as they are registered.[61][64]
That still opens the possibility for griefing or let's say sabotage the fairness of the competition because on one side some neutral players can register to prevent others to join and they'll do nothing useful during the war. Might simulate they fight though but will have low quality gear or will let guard down to be killed easier.
That explains why they mention the possibility to increase the number from 250x250 to 500x500.
If I can join to see the battle, if I arrive late, for me is ok.
I am a bit worried though that some players will get upset if I do not instantly follow orders and know what to do.
How will 250 or 500 players coordinate themselves during the battle?
If I join, will the game automatically assign me to a group and they will expect me to help them?
Can group members even identify each other within the larger 250 / 500 amount of players?
@Strevi
you mix up node sieges and castle sieges.
Castle Sieges have been said to be 250 v. 250 (with the possibility of this being increased)
Node Sieges are uncapped as of the last information we have received.
Castle Sieges will probably rely on Teamspeak or Mumble as Discord is sever performance issues with that amount of clients and lacks tools necessary to coordinate such a large group.
We virtually know nothing about Node Sieges, how they will work, subobjectives, Zone Layout etc. so talking about this would be pure speculation. Especially on the topic of communication, as we neither the quantity of players necessary, nor the ingame tools ready to organize them.
The page is about node sieges, has a section Declaring node siege, then in the next section called Siege participation:
Non-registered combatants are not permitted on the siege field in castle or node sieges.[58]
Then is a mix of information.
So I assumed the mechanics are similar.
As George Black stated in an earlier post, in L2 once the player base got to know sieges inside out, they left the battle ground largely unchallenged until the last 15min then went for the throne room.
I really hope the elements in AoC take this quite a lot further so there must be engagement during the entire time and the clock does matter.
Matter of fact is, that its 2 completely unrelated systems. Information on one doesnt translate to the other
And because that, it wants to prevent players consuming slots as "observers".
But neutral players could be kicked out from the instance when registered players join.
And becoming neutral (not registered) can happen somehow:
Players may choose to respawn at their HQ as long as they are registered.[61][64]
In case of caravans, I see that the battle is not instanced
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Caravans
The caravan system is an open world PvP system
Players will be able to state their intentions to attack, defend or ignore via a user interface window.[46][47][48]
The proximity that the UI window appears is determined by the player's performance as either a defender or an attacker in previous raids.[46]
That means neutral players will mix with those who fight causing confusion on the battle field?
How will I avoid hitting a neutral?
An incredibly important point that I see frequently discarded when it comes to contributing suggestions and ideas for systems and content for the game. This is a game. Instances are important and necessary for a whole host of reasons, both from a technical and gameplay standpoint.
The amount of potential griefing and ratting that would happen if everything was just OW would make the experience a headache, rather than a dynamic battle event between two highly motivated opposing sides with objectives and winning conditions. Those conditions create great gaming content.
Even in Lineage 2, you had 'instanced' parts during siege. When you died, you'd respawn inside a room within the castle where you had NPC to rebuff and then port out of it again.
Which indicates there may be parts of Sieges that are instanced - not that the entirety of a Siege is instanced.
More details would help clarify, though. Yes.
Exactly. Also if the siege covers a large area, sneaking around and reporting what the enemy is doing could be part of the strategy. And fights between such observers.
But maybe it will never be the case to want to observe. Only as a new player on the server I would do that, until I figure out how things work. Or if I am not one of the 250 best fighters in the city.