Remove Family summon

Strevi

I think the family summon should be removed.
If guilds don't have it, families should not have it either.

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Hinotori

I'm going to crack a soda and settle in for this one.

superhero6785

I'm not against removing it. It's meant to be a compromise to be able to jump in and play with your friends without spending 30 minutes running across the world to join up with them simply because you got home from work an hour later. Guilds don't have it because they want to avoid zergs teleporting in. Family sizes will be MUCH smaller than guilds, I think they said 8 people per family? So that would get you one full party of close friends playing together.

Chime

Why? Guilds would be able to exploit it far more than a "family member" could.

Players can't be summoned if:

They're in combat
Corrupted
in any events
and if they're carrying mats, gatherables or certs

Plus there is a 30 minute cool down. Family summon has it's own restrictions so it doesn't feel like it could get taken advantage of like a guild would.

Ludullu

Let's test it first and see how bad the planned system is, if bad at all.

Strevi

Natasha wrote: »

I'm going to crack a soda and settle in for this one.

Chime wrote: »

Why? Guilds would be able to exploit it far more than a "family member" could.

So you say it brings an advantage and family members are allowed to "exploit it" but guilds not?

Strevi

superhero6785 wrote: »

I'm not against removing it. It's meant to be a compromise to be able to jump in and play with your friends without spending 30 minutes running across the world to join up with them simply because you got home from work an hour later. Guilds don't have it because they want to avoid zergs teleporting in. Family sizes will be MUCH smaller than guilds, I think they said 8 people per family? So that would get you one full party of close friends playing together.

If they care about each other so much, they would not roam selfishly the world to places hard to reach, leaving the others behind when they are offline.
And if the purpose is to let them enjoy the game together, why punish guild members?
This assumes that random strangers in a guild are insensitive and cannot be friends.

MrPockets

Strevi wrote: »

And if the purpose is to let them enjoy the game together, why punish guild members?
This assumes that random strangers in a guild are insensitive and cannot be friends.

Then make a family with your closest 7 guildmates? This doesn't punish anyone....as stated before, the intent behind it is to prevent large guild zergs instantly teleporting all over the place.

NiKr wrote: »

Let's test it first and see how bad the planned system is, if bad at all.

Also this ^^^^^^

Rando88

What's to stop me from having 2 accounts and teleporting across the map as I please?

Strevi

MrPockets wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

And if the purpose is to let them enjoy the game together, why punish guild members?
This assumes that random strangers in a guild are insensitive and cannot be friends.

Then make a family with your closest 7 guildmates? This doesn't punish anyone....as stated before, the intent behind it is to prevent large guild zergs instantly teleporting all over the place.

NiKr wrote: »

Let's test it first and see how bad the planned system is, if bad at all.

Also this ^^^^^^

My closest friends hate PvP and I will not even try to convince them to play this game.
I want to play with a guild and be friend with them.

SongRune

Strevi wrote: »

If they care about each other so much, they would not roam selfishly the world to places hard to reach, leaving the others behind when they are offline.
And if the purpose is to let them enjoy the game together, why punish guild members?
This assumes that random strangers in a guild are insensitive and cannot be friends.

I see you've never had a family with busy lives, sometimes random work emergencies, etc, where the teleportation is the difference between "something broke at work and I had to fix it, but I can still join late" and "guess we're not playing today". Planning ahead is good, but not everyone has the luxury of a perfect life. Family Summon is made for them. In a guild? Yeah, the guild was going to go on without you either way. But for a family? It makes a difference. There are potentially better ways to do it, but the base concept matters.

Taleof2Cities

SongRune wrote: »

I see you've never had a family with busy lives, sometimes random work emergencies, etc, where the teleportation is the difference between "something broke at work and I had to fix it, but I can still join late" and "guess we're not playing today".

Surely you have a better example than this to support your point of view?

Not logging in and playing because you don't have the family summon optimized between all players sounds pretty lazy.

I'm not against family summon at all ... players just need to be prepared for the limited types of fast travel in Ashes. Otherwise, it might not be a game for you.

As @NiKr said, it will be interesting to test this mechanic.

Warth

Personally, Id replace the family summon system with a system:

that is more in tune with the other design principles
that is less abuseable

Sapiverenus

Strevi wrote: »

If they care about each other so much, they would not roam selfishly the world to places hard to reach, leaving the others behind when they are offline.

lol so true

Sapiverenus

SongRune wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

If they care about each other so much, they would not roam selfishly the world to places hard to reach, leaving the others behind when they are offline.
And if the purpose is to let them enjoy the game together, why punish guild members?
This assumes that random strangers in a guild are insensitive and cannot be friends.

I see you've never had a family with busy lives, sometimes random work emergencies, etc, where the teleportation is the difference between "something broke at work and I had to fix it, but I can still join late" and "guess we're not playing today". Planning ahead is good, but not everyone has the luxury of a perfect life. Family Summon is made for them. In a guild? Yeah, the guild was going to go on without you either way. But for a family? It makes a difference. There are potentially better ways to do it, but the base concept matters.

Teleportation exists and the world isn't that large though. The game doesn't seem to be designed around long-distance travel; it's more about a local ~10 minute radius.

But maybe you'd like my idea for how to balance progression:

Having something to do when low on time and needing to progress is why I suggest elsewhere 'Training' progression with a softlock past a certain daily and weekly limit [similar enough to real training]. . . . .
rather than the somewhat arbitrary "Kill, get XP".

Hit them with hammer = Strength and Skill XP. Use spell = Spirit? and Skill XP.
Being rewarded for running around and contributing sounds just fine to me.
Attempting and failing a 'dungeon' and still getting something out of it sounds just fine to me.

TheWolfofGar

Why? It's already extremely limited in scope and application, preventing the movement of large scale groups which the guild cap is currently 300 makes sense, stopping 8 friends from linking up when it has no impact on economy, or evading combat is just removing it out of spite/jealousy.

-you can only be in 1 family so you can't exploit and have 1 person summon 7 and each of the 7 summon there own groups of 7,

wiki

Families are a means to relate up to nine characters.[1][2][3]

A character may only belong to one family at a time.[1]
Leaving one family and joining another family will have a cooldown period in the order of days.[1]
Family sizes are normally limited to eight characters.[1]
Marriage increases family size by one to allow player housing permissions to be shared.[4]
This size increase only applies if the family's head is married.[5]
There are costs associated with family creation and maintenance.[5]

Some costs are shared among the family members and other costs are specific to the family head

so they are paying to upkeep there family and keep it recognized,

Wiki

Long duration cast (30 seconds to a minute) with an approximate 30 minute cooldown that slowly summons each of your family members to your location (up to eight members).[14][15] Players cannot be summoned in the following cases:
While in combat, if they are corrupted, or if they are engaged in an event, such as node wars, guild wars, sieges, arenas or participation in the caravan system.[16]
If they have mats, gatherables or certs in their inventory.[17]
This will be tested in Alpha-2.[18]

What exactly is it that you fear will be abused by this system? sending 1 player to a dungeon to summon there 7 friends in? Or a guild forcibly dividing it's members up into multiple families so that they can send a party of 8 unrelated players to a dungeon/raid and summon in 56 others?

in the later case of guilds forcing family membership on it's players I think we can wait to see how the system develops in A2 rather than cutting it entirely,
you could have a rule where summons can only be initiated in freeholds or nodes of t3 and up, for example depending on if/how we see it being abused.

SongRune

Sapiverenus wrote: »

SongRune wrote: »

Strevi wrote: »

If they care about each other so much, they would not roam selfishly the world to places hard to reach, leaving the others behind when they are offline.
And if the purpose is to let them enjoy the game together, why punish guild members?
This assumes that random strangers in a guild are insensitive and cannot be friends.

I see you've never had a family with busy lives, sometimes random work emergencies, etc, where the teleportation is the difference between "something broke at work and I had to fix it, but I can still join late" and "guess we're not playing today". Planning ahead is good, but not everyone has the luxury of a perfect life. Family Summon is made for them. In a guild? Yeah, the guild was going to go on without you either way. But for a family? It makes a difference. There are potentially better ways to do it, but the base concept matters.

Teleportation exists and the world isn't that large though. The game doesn't seem to be designed around long-distance travel; it's more about a local ~10 minute radius.

But maybe you'd like my idea for how to balance progression:

Having something to do when low on time and needing to progress is why I suggest elsewhere 'Training' progression with a softlock past a certain daily and weekly limit [similar enough to real training]. . . . .
rather than the somewhat arbitrary "Kill, get XP".

Hit them with hammer = Strength and Skill XP. Use spell = Spirit? and Skill XP.
Being rewarded for running around and contributing sounds just fine to me.
Attempting and failing a 'dungeon' and still getting something out of it sounds just fine to me.

You misunderstand. It is not about being "low on time and needing to progress". It is about being low on time and wanting to play. If your friends can't all gather together easily because of scheduling difficulty, you still want to play with them in this multi-player role-playing game. @Strevi's non-solution is for everyone to go solo instead, if anything makes life difficult on that two nights a week you can coordinate everyone at once. It's not about progression. It's not about increasing numbers, or getting loot. It's about playing. Together.

Veeshan

Its realy just there to let a group of 8 players or less to regularly play together

Sathrago

To be fair, the current proposed family system has a clear flaw where guilds could/will require their members to become family members within the guild so that they can summon each other to quickly deal with content. All they need to do is have groups of 8 from 8 different families roaming around. If that group runs into a rare mob or say an enemy caravan they want to fight, they can then each family summon 7 additional players.
8 just became 64.

So, what can be done to solve this sort of issue? I dont know how outside of completely making the character naked as a requirement for teleportation.

SongRune

Sathrago wrote: »

To be fair, the current proposed family system has a clear flaw where guilds could/will require their members to become family members within the guild so that they can summon each other to quickly deal with content. All they need to do is have groups of 8 from 8 different families roaming around. If that group runs into a rare mob or say an enemy caravan they want to fight, they can then each family summon 7 additional players.
8 just became 64.

So, what can be done to solve this sort of issue? I dont know how outside of completely making the character naked as a requirement for teleportation.

Something that has been suggested before, actually, and I think works well is this:

Instead of teleporting players, have them auto-path and auto-run to the summoner. This takes away all teleportation and 'sudden arrival' based exploits, and at first glance it looks like it would ruin the spirit of the thing, but if you look a little closer, a lot of people in the target demographic will have more time to AFK while they say, cook dinner, or deal with whatever else, which lets them get in position for content while they're able to actually play. It won't work for everyone, but it keeps the theme up, and it definitely helps with the teleportation-induced problems.

You'd configure it to take main streets to avoid mobs. Maybe have an optional icon that shows the player has no materials or such on them (if you keep that requirement) so they're less likely to get killed. Probably no immunity, but maybe you respawn at the spawnpoint nearest the summoner if you do get killed.

Suddenly it's a pain in the ass for little profit, to guilds, but still useful to most actual 'families'.

TheWolfofGar

SongRune wrote: »

Instead of teleporting players, have them auto-path and auto-run to the summoner. This takes away all teleportation and 'sudden arrival' based exploits, and at first glance it looks like it would ruin the spirit of the thing, but if you look a little closer, a lot of people in the target demographic will have more time to AFK while they say, cook dinner, or deal with whatever else, which lets them get in position for content while they're able to actually play. It won't work for everyone, but it keeps the theme up, and it definitely helps with the teleportation-induced problems.

Suddenly it's a pain in the ass for little profit, to guilds, but still useful to most actual 'families'.

I honestly think that would likely defeat the whole purpose of family teleport, imagine you get home from work and only have an hour or two to kill, but before you can play with your friend you need to trigger an autopath running simulator, which depending on how far you're running could eat into a decent chunk of that time, at least if you made the summon only work if the caller was in a freehold or node you'd be able to run to your destination actively with your friends.

As you said suddenly it's a pain in the ass for little profit, for guilds but imo it's still just a pain in the ass, if the system was only auto-pathing I'd say scrap the family idea and just make that available to anyone on your friends list and if it were simply auto-pathing how would that work if you are being summoned off main roads? You would also need to scrap the resource restriction as what would be the purpose in restricting it to no resource carrying? The reason that restriction was put in place is to prevent circumventing transport risks, if you are simply running in open world the restriction doesn't make sense

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