Greetings, glorious testers!
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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
What type of community is AoC looking to foster?
Grundleson
Member, Alpha Two
Hello,
I am posting this here because I don't know where to turn on this matter and would like some advise and feedback. I have been excited about this game and it's vision since I first heard of it back in August of 2017. I have been paying close attention to development , the AMA's, and watch a lot of content from many creators. I trust Steven and the team are making an AMAZING game and have already purchased the voyager plus pre-order and am eager to play in the next testing phase!
There is one thing that has been hindering my excitement. Recently I have become very disheartened by one particular content creator and his insistence with using the R-word in almost every one of his videos in as vile of a way as one can. I understand that people make mistakes and can use a word and not understand the effect it can have on someone else. Maybe it is in anger and they don't mean it, or maybe they don't even understand it's impact. This is NOT the case here I can assure you. I have reported every video he does it in. YouTube does nothing. Now Asmongold is even reacting to these videos and seems to find it funny in his latest one. I'm not an Asmon hater, I actually enjoy his content mostly, and find him to be reasonable in matters like this for the most part. So that surprised me.
My question is for the AoC team. Since Narc seems to be one of the most vocal supporters of this game. It almost appears that he is in some way a spokesman for the game. I see you posting his videos as well. What are your thoughts on his behavior? Is this a word you are OK with being used in this fashion? Are we saying as a community that it is OK to demean and bully people who were born different than we are? I can't recall in my life seeing something as despicable as the times I would see someone make fun of a person with disabilities. Sure, it mostly happened growing up by bullies who wanted attention and were raised poorly. What's Narc's excuse? I am certain someone has said something to him by now with the amount of views his videos get and the fact that he has been ramping up his efforts to use this word more and more egregiously. I apologize for the long post, but this is important to me. I prefer not putting my time and money into something that will stand for something like this. If we won't stand up for people of this marginalized community, then who will?
What action do I expect? I think by now it has gone too far for him to simply stop saying it. This would be a great opportunity for awareness. Someone with his platform to come out and publicly apologize for his use of the word and to make his followers aware of the harm the word has on people, that would be great. Maybe help repair some of the damage I am certain his actions have caused. I am sure if the creators of the game he loves made him aware that his behavior won't be tolerated, and for him to participate he will need to make amends. That would be special. I am aware that is a lofty expectation, I would settle for him to just stop saying it, is that too much to ask?
That brings me to my initial statement. Does anyone have any advise on how we can stop Narc from doing this? Is anyone else concerned for those wonderful gamers out there who may have Down Syndrome or Autism, or maybe someone who suffered a traumatic brain injury, and are AoC fans that watch Narc's video only to be met with the vile word that has cut them down their entire lives? Am I the only one afraid of what this looks like for this community and in turn the game itself? I am not going to lie, posting this is making me a bit worried in itself as to what type of comments I will receive. Thank you for hearing me out if you got this far:P If you have any good advice for how we can address this please let me know. Maybe pass this along to someone in leadership on the AoC team. Anything is better than nothing.
I am posting this here because I don't know where to turn on this matter and would like some advise and feedback. I have been excited about this game and it's vision since I first heard of it back in August of 2017. I have been paying close attention to development , the AMA's, and watch a lot of content from many creators. I trust Steven and the team are making an AMAZING game and have already purchased the voyager plus pre-order and am eager to play in the next testing phase!
There is one thing that has been hindering my excitement. Recently I have become very disheartened by one particular content creator and his insistence with using the R-word in almost every one of his videos in as vile of a way as one can. I understand that people make mistakes and can use a word and not understand the effect it can have on someone else. Maybe it is in anger and they don't mean it, or maybe they don't even understand it's impact. This is NOT the case here I can assure you. I have reported every video he does it in. YouTube does nothing. Now Asmongold is even reacting to these videos and seems to find it funny in his latest one. I'm not an Asmon hater, I actually enjoy his content mostly, and find him to be reasonable in matters like this for the most part. So that surprised me.
My question is for the AoC team. Since Narc seems to be one of the most vocal supporters of this game. It almost appears that he is in some way a spokesman for the game. I see you posting his videos as well. What are your thoughts on his behavior? Is this a word you are OK with being used in this fashion? Are we saying as a community that it is OK to demean and bully people who were born different than we are? I can't recall in my life seeing something as despicable as the times I would see someone make fun of a person with disabilities. Sure, it mostly happened growing up by bullies who wanted attention and were raised poorly. What's Narc's excuse? I am certain someone has said something to him by now with the amount of views his videos get and the fact that he has been ramping up his efforts to use this word more and more egregiously. I apologize for the long post, but this is important to me. I prefer not putting my time and money into something that will stand for something like this. If we won't stand up for people of this marginalized community, then who will?
What action do I expect? I think by now it has gone too far for him to simply stop saying it. This would be a great opportunity for awareness. Someone with his platform to come out and publicly apologize for his use of the word and to make his followers aware of the harm the word has on people, that would be great. Maybe help repair some of the damage I am certain his actions have caused. I am sure if the creators of the game he loves made him aware that his behavior won't be tolerated, and for him to participate he will need to make amends. That would be special. I am aware that is a lofty expectation, I would settle for him to just stop saying it, is that too much to ask?
That brings me to my initial statement. Does anyone have any advise on how we can stop Narc from doing this? Is anyone else concerned for those wonderful gamers out there who may have Down Syndrome or Autism, or maybe someone who suffered a traumatic brain injury, and are AoC fans that watch Narc's video only to be met with the vile word that has cut them down their entire lives? Am I the only one afraid of what this looks like for this community and in turn the game itself? I am not going to lie, posting this is making me a bit worried in itself as to what type of comments I will receive. Thank you for hearing me out if you got this far:P If you have any good advice for how we can address this please let me know. Maybe pass this along to someone in leadership on the AoC team. Anything is better than nothing.
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
There's a wide spectrum here from 'woke carebears' to 'anti-woke chads' and everything in between and they all react differently.
But I'm sure you're about to experience quite a bit of that firsthand...
Pretty sure he has a disability by the way....
He tries to do humor in his own way, same way comedians do. Doesn't mean every joke sits well with everyone but there is a different between someone being hostile in the way they use the word or clearly making a joke.
I could get further in guessing why he does things in certain ways, based on his personality and maybe relations to certain things but that be kind of pointless.
End of the day he is making a joke, maybe a joke on himself as well. I'm not about cancel culture though and don't' really support people trying to do that. Compared to some of the actual bad people out there that are doing things worthy of stopping them, ones that do things in a way that isn't a joke.
Notable R words: revenue, ramblings, reality.. I know revenue is a pretty difficult topic for some!
And perhaps I am not up with things if a politically incorrect R word does not spring to mind.. and happy not to know
That being said, Narc has 4.4mil views, which is a formidable achievement, has become a great medium to spread the word with other youtubers watching and spreading his work.. Quite frankly he is quite entertaining. He has done far more good for Ashes than countless others..
As Mag said, if you don`t like his work quite simply don`t watch it. But don`t spoil it for others here because his work is not your thing.
There are 34 million youtube channels, perhaps try another channel?
Edit: just to be clear, I have not read that wall of text. Just randomly noticed those words. I know is cheating but yes,
I still don't know why the question
What type of community is AoC looking to foster?
If you are good enough to move the mouse and defend yourself in PvP, you are ok.
If you are a gatherer and you cannot move your mouse fast, you deserve to be killed as you take up valuable space on the server.
So players with brain should probably avoid this game.
I'm not all for cancel culture either. I just am asking he stop using "jokes" at the expense of others as a leader of a community. There are guidelines for a reason. Use your same rational with the Nword, still ok? Didn't think so. I have I have spent most of my life very close to this issue. Seen first hand what that word does to people. Growing up being tormented and bullied because they are different. Some things just aren't funny. If he has a disability, I am not aware, still doesn't excuse it. I'm not going to go back and clip every video he has done it in. Simply watch the last one Asmon reacted to for an example. I wouldn't bring up the AoC team if Steven didn't just bring him up Narc specifically in a resent video either. You can make jokes without using hateful words that are hateful regardless of context. His context wasn't good to begin with, but none the less.
Your rationale is bulletproof. I'll just put my head in the sand now. Thanks for the advise.
Intrepid does have a Creator Program. It’s highly likely that any member of the AOC Creator Program must adhere to guidelines stipulated by Intrepid. I don’t believe that such guidelines are available to the public; it’s likely such guidelines are only made available to applicants and accepted members of the Creator Program.
https://ashesofcreation.com/news/2021-05-08-introducing-the-intrepid-studios-content-creator-program
I do not know if Narc is a member or has applied to become a member of the Creator Program.
Have you attempted to raise your concerns directly with Narc?
Regardless of Narc’s affiliation, either as a member or non-member of the Creator Program, your best bet would be to raise your concerns with Intrepid’s Marketing team, specifically Community Marketing Lead @MargaretKrohn
Narc will probably be in the oficial content creator program, he makes good and entertaining content, even tho sometimes it might all be baseless speculation, you can either accept that or stop following the project if one creator is the hill you want to die on.
Also... Narc publicly said in one video that he has autism so... maybe give him the green card for the jokes lol
Thank you. That is good advice. I appreciate it.
"Are we saying as a community that it is OK to demean and bully people who were born different than we are?"
Your not bullying someone if you don't even mention the specific person.
"Maybe help repair some of the damage I am certain his actions have caused."
Do you think that you will ever be able to point to a specific person that has actually been harmed by his words? Or anyone who has ever been actually harmed (especially physically) by being called the same thing? Particularly if the word was not directed at that person.
I'm not going to to take the time to argue with your whole post. Imagined harms waste everybody's time and make people bend over backwards for nothing.
But I wouldn't mind if Intrepid Studios would stop collaborating with some of them.
Unless the game launch is imminent, why advertise it and create hype, years in advance?
I personally don't support either of those things and do find Narc's humor funny at points, even if he does indeed go overboard fairly often, but you're free to do as you please and to give feedback that you see fit.
Narc does not represent the community. He is a part of it and, at the current point in time, probably the most prominent one, but one person does not equate the whole group. The only way to remove him from the community would be to completely deplatform him, which I doubt most people want. Intrepid could in theory start copystriking him, but I think that would set a very bad marketing precedent.
I agree with that, I am not trying to have him de-platformed. I just want people to be aware of the effect that word has on people, and for someone who has that platform to reach thousands or even millions to take the responsibility that comes with that role they have accepted and not use words like that, There are really only a few I can think of, so it's a fairly reasonable request. Thank you for having the decency to understand and not just parrot the "just don't watch it" trope.
We prefer everyone be well unto each other. We do not have a say over what individuals say on their own platforms outside of our communities. However, on our own platforms, we do not allow for the use of name-calling with the 'R' word.
A helpful tool we suggest around the forums and Discord is the 'ignore' function. With that said, if you don't like a user's content, I suggest blocking them or not watching the content!
We want the Ashes of Creation community to be a positive one, centered around a love for MMORPGs and sharing that common interest with one another. I appreciate anyone and everyone who is willing to help keep the community awesome! ^_^
Side note: Let's make sure we're being well unto one another and keep the conversation on-topic. Thank you and carry on! ^_^
If someone calls a skin & bones person 'weak' are you deeply sympathetic? lmao
Some things just require the individual to handle shit themself. Are you going to make their psyche strong for them?
People have to grow up at some point.
Why'd you bother bleeping that word then?
Noted. I can't believe I never thought of that. Incredible! I'm going to message every single person in the English speaking world and warn them just in case they happen to be of this demographic and happen to come across this CONTENT CREATOR's videos he POSTS ONLINE for Millions to see and warn them. Hey guys, just don't watch it.. Brilliant!
You are trying to bait with this comment. Forums bans words clearly i couldn't even do my post as it was even with me being black and you comparing a joke to actual racism.
Unless you are someone with developmental disabilities, then "I suggest blocking them or not watching the content!". I got what I needed from this thread and will be ignoring it from here on. These other comments I expected, your response however was truly disheartening.
Youtube didn't remove the channel or give him strikes for the jokes, so he came to the forum to try to get him cancelled. And try to say he is leading advertising or something to try to get pressure on IS to punish him because youtube won't.
Typical cancel culture crap.
I mean if they see it, and don't like it, they just block or ignore him as well. Simple.
What I would advise you Narc, if you read this, before you start streaming on Twitch get a VPN. Get a VPN. Get a VPN. Can't repeat it enough. You're in a spotlight now with your growth, a small one, but that's all it takes. People will scrutinize you and potentially come after you in various ways. Get a VPN.
One of the main drawbacks of VPNs has always been that they slow your internet connection down. Well now, some of the better ones like NordVPN, have like a splitter function. So when you're streaming a game on Twitch, you can set it to where the game is using your regular home internet at it's full speeds, but you can split off your stream's internet to use the VPN, and thus be protected from people who can find your home address by tracing your IP, and all kinds of other nasty things they can do.
All that said, I view the R word and some of it's uses, even innocent ones, as unfortunate. I also view free speech as something worth fighting for and dying for.
But the main point, Vaknar already covered. Intrepid can't really do anything directly here. It's Narc's video, so if there's an issue then YouTube or Twitch would apply any reprimands if they deemed them necessary. Just my two cents.
Leigh Sales, "Is being sensitive to offense such a problem, we would have previously called that manners"
Jordan Peterson, "it`s a terrible problem, so the rule is you cannot offend anyone. and you're on stage and you are going to say something important about something, something vital. let's say you are speaking to one person, I cannot offend you, all right fair enough. what if I am speaking to 10 people, do I get to offend one in ten people, how about one in a hundred, how about one in a thousand."
Everybody is having fun watching it except you - being offended is a choice.
I want to play a fun game
I need a safe space, because words are violence.
Won't someone ban him? /s
Seriously though, go watch something else and stop trying to be the word police.
People like you ruin everything!
Well, that's a lie. That's exactly what you're trying for. (In a really disingenuous and snakey way).
As others have said. If you don't like it, watch something else. Word police are so bloody tiresome.
The AoC "Community" isn't some single thing. It's plenty big enough for you to carve out your own little space which you can fill with other like-minded hall monitors and professional offense takers.