novercalis wrote: » To add - a PvE player kills an Orc The Orc drops 3 items. A Weapon (not flaggable) A Armor (not flaggable) and a Rabbit Foot Charm (Flaggable) The player can decide, do I want to level in peace and take the weapon and armor and leave the rabbit foot on the corpse for someone else, or do I risk soft flagging myself and potentially losing more stuff if I get attacked, just because i decided to have a rabbit foot charm with me to attempt to sell. (HELL I AM OKAY WITH WEAPON/ARMOR being flaggable< if you only want XP, take the XP, leave the loot on the floor)
novercalis wrote: » I guess that becomes subjective. What is considered value. Needs to be defined. if it's a white weapon/armor that can sell to NPC for some meager gold.. cool - i personally dont think it should flag you. However if smelting is a thing - than a white weapon/armor turning into ore becomes valueable - should be flaggable. IDK how AoC items/crafting system looks like to comment. ---- Assuming no smelting weapons/armor.. then white weapons and armor isnt flaggable, but perhaps Green tier items should be flaggable 100% at this point. Even if it worth a few extra gold to an NPC - we need to define a hard line somewhere and create that RISK/REWARD sense in every aspect of the game.
novercalis wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » novercalis wrote: » Sath - is your post directed at me? I agree with you, if u were. Do all resources matter tho? I think common, basic shit like plain ol lumber (using New World) shouldnt really matter and get you attacked. But the second you have a green lumber or whatever - now your open yourself for pvp, because important Resources should matter. ECONOMY matters. White resources may not be important, but everything else should be contested. So give a little protection to the players who are just doing BASIC gathering, getting their basic gathering levels up and players who are trying to just level PvE style that isnt carrying anything of importance in peace. Low level resources are still used in crafting higher tier items so making them free to pick is not good for the game. What if low level players want to contest other low level players for example? It's not always going to be high levels attempting to bully low levels. You act like you didnt read how corruption works though. First of all you cant see how much health another player has at any point. So the risk of attacking a low level player or someone fighting a mob is that you accidentally kill the player making you corrupted. Player death also sucks, a lot. And these penalties on death are halved if you try to defend yourself but if you are corrupted they are doubled. The current corruption details make me think you would have to be a blooming dumbass to want to risk getting it. If people are just attacking each other and going red all over the place in the beginning of the game they will quickly find out how horrible the game will treat them for making that decision. IF - because I do not know how the crafting system looks like in AoC - if they make low level trees logs meaningful then that changes things. But most often than not, in 99% of other MMO - common white resources, aren't that important / meaningful. They rarely impact the economy or be a source to be rich. Using tree an example - there will be infinite supplies of basic lumber. Respawning fairly decently I assume. Now the Uncommon/Rare drops from those trees are much more important. that should be contested. Sorry, I don't keep up with AoC 24/7 copium addicts like many other. I vaguely remember the details of their corruption system. I am not stating anywhere to remove or change corruption system. All of that stays. Examples; Currently Player A (level 60) wants to kill player B (level 10) Player A has accepted the potential of corruption, he wants to kill player B, assuming player B has gatherable resources. Player A attacks Player B Player B decides fight or Run and Die and allow the full corruption to be inflicted on player A. Player A is corrupted and learns player B had nothing of value. *********** EXAMPLE 2A - My proposal Currently Player A (level 60) wants to kill player B (level 10) Player A has accepted the potential of corruption, he wants to kill player B, assuming player B has gatherable resources. Player A attempts to attack Player B. Learns player B isnt soft flagged, thus have nothing of value. Player B isnt grief for no reason and both players move on. ************* EXAMPLE 2B Currently Player A (level 60) wants to kill player B (level 10) Player A has accepted the potential of corruption, he wants to kill player B, assuming player B has gatherable resources. Player A attacks Player B successfully, knowing he has resources now. Player B decides to fight or Run and Die and allow the full corruption to be inflicted on player A. This does not changed on how it originally works now. Player A no matter what had INTENTION TO KILL player B for a reason - gatherables resources.. All we did was to prevent a NON REASON - someone who had no gatherable reason that allowed player B to be soft flagged. My question is - in what purpose or Reason should a player kill another player that isnt soft flagged, meaning that isnt carrying in valuable resource/material that is imperative to the Economy/Node Mechanics. If they are simply just killing shit for XP and nothing more - there is no reason to impede and harass that player. The second they loot something that is of value - they officially opted into PvP. Either give up the resource or die, if not, you have a very small protection. The corruption system still remains the same, if they punish players for level decrpencies, than that stays the same. If they dont, that stays the same. NOT touching or changing any aspect of the corruption system. Just defining the purpose of initiation PvP is all. A Soft Flag allows pvp, regardless of level.
Sathrago wrote: » novercalis wrote: » Sath - is your post directed at me? I agree with you, if u were. Do all resources matter tho? I think common, basic shit like plain ol lumber (using New World) shouldnt really matter and get you attacked. But the second you have a green lumber or whatever - now your open yourself for pvp, because important Resources should matter. ECONOMY matters. White resources may not be important, but everything else should be contested. So give a little protection to the players who are just doing BASIC gathering, getting their basic gathering levels up and players who are trying to just level PvE style that isnt carrying anything of importance in peace. Low level resources are still used in crafting higher tier items so making them free to pick is not good for the game. What if low level players want to contest other low level players for example? It's not always going to be high levels attempting to bully low levels. You act like you didnt read how corruption works though. First of all you cant see how much health another player has at any point. So the risk of attacking a low level player or someone fighting a mob is that you accidentally kill the player making you corrupted. Player death also sucks, a lot. And these penalties on death are halved if you try to defend yourself but if you are corrupted they are doubled. The current corruption details make me think you would have to be a blooming dumbass to want to risk getting it. If people are just attacking each other and going red all over the place in the beginning of the game they will quickly find out how horrible the game will treat them for making that decision.
novercalis wrote: » Sath - is your post directed at me? I agree with you, if u were. Do all resources matter tho? I think common, basic shit like plain ol lumber (using New World) shouldnt really matter and get you attacked. But the second you have a green lumber or whatever - now your open yourself for pvp, because important Resources should matter. ECONOMY matters. White resources may not be important, but everything else should be contested. So give a little protection to the players who are just doing BASIC gathering, getting their basic gathering levels up and players who are trying to just level PvE style that isnt carrying anything of importance in peace.
novercalis wrote: » there should be absolute trash items that are only useful to sell to NPC. Orc beads - as an example - has no usage for nodes, growth, crafting or anything. Just a basic trash loot that sells for 10s. Cool - it allows the PvE players not to get flagged and slowly grow their wealth. I don't see anything wrong with BASIC TRASH drops.
you contradict yourself. you dont want people killing lowbies for no reason, yet you are putting a target on their back. i guess all you want is to know beforehand who to kill and who not to kill come on be honest. i would normally not go out of my way to kill a lowbie, but if he has a rare item, guess what? its worth it for me to kill him. i could just bring a low level char from 2nd account or a friend and attack the lowbie with the target on his back..what is he gonna do? he cant fight back or ill 1 shot him with my main. if he accepts death and my lvl 10 goes corrupted, who cares? i loot you with my main and then cleanse the corruption on the lowbie, or simply kill it myself then trade the gear back
So in my Perfect Ashes, there are none.
novercalis wrote: » So in my Perfect Ashes, there are none. good luck finding that perfect game. Like in life and relationships - Consensus and Concessions are a must. Finding a perfect wife or S/O is impossible. Gotta accept some flaws to be happy, living together, etc. Not trying to knock on you or diss, it's good to have high standards. If people bring me problems to my idea, I can attempt to find solution. If people bring me a principle to my idea - not much I can do
Azherae wrote: » novercalis wrote: » So in my Perfect Ashes, there are none. good luck finding that perfect game. Like in life and relationships - Consensus and Concessions are a must. Finding a perfect wife or S/O is impossible. Gotta accept some flaws to be happy, living together, etc. Not trying to knock on you or diss, it's good to have high standards. If people bring me problems to my idea, I can attempt to find solution. If people bring me a principle to my idea - not much I can do Yep. I just don't understand something, maybe you can explain it to me. I don't know why games made the shift to having Trash Loot in the first place. I played a game for a long time that didn't have any, then another game that didn't have any, and then every game after that seemed to be made with it in, and I don't know why this was necessary. They have to create the same number of items, if not more. They have to deal with the same levers in the economy, if not more. Players generally aren't QUITE so slow-witted that they can't figure out how to use trading/auction houses... Why did games start adding Trash Loot? Why do you think it's important to begin with?
novercalis wrote: » Azherae wrote: » novercalis wrote: » So in my Perfect Ashes, there are none. good luck finding that perfect game. Like in life and relationships - Consensus and Concessions are a must. Finding a perfect wife or S/O is impossible. Gotta accept some flaws to be happy, living together, etc. Not trying to knock on you or diss, it's good to have high standards. If people bring me problems to my idea, I can attempt to find solution. If people bring me a principle to my idea - not much I can do Yep. I just don't understand something, maybe you can explain it to me. I don't know why games made the shift to having Trash Loot in the first place. I played a game for a long time that didn't have any, then another game that didn't have any, and then every game after that seemed to be made with it in, and I don't know why this was necessary. They have to create the same number of items, if not more. They have to deal with the same levers in the economy, if not more. Players generally aren't QUITE so slow-witted that they can't figure out how to use trading/auction houses... Why did games start adding Trash Loot? Why do you think it's important to begin with? UO, EQ, WoW had trash loot. Hell D&D had trash loot too I honestly cant recall a mmo without it. Ragnarok, bunch of Korean MMO. I played most eastern mmo outside of eq/wow/uo. No experience in Lineage, Archage, Mortal, Conan, etc.
novercalis wrote: » Why not have a system that soft flags you, if you are carrying specific resources? Maybe Common and Uncommon items wont soft flag you for pvp, but the second you are carrying a rare or higher, other players may attack you now for that resources. After all - we are fighting for resources, fighting for Economy.
Veeshan wrote: » Just gonna comment on this section for now since i dont have time to expand on more atm. But what doesn't make sense? - Ganking lowbies (Potentially addressed with corruption system) - Killing gatherers (semi addressed with corruption) - Killing Adventurers leveling up, not really lowbies but within 1-7 level differences. Ganking lowbies should be fixed via corruption, corruption penalty can scale the amount so killing a lowbie could be 10 times+ more penelaty loss than killing somone withing 3 level of you, which is what i suspect cause this would be griefing since they have 0 chance to win. Killing Gatherers, there is a reason why somone might wanna kill gatherers one is to prevent/slow neighbouring nodes from progressing economicly aswell as leveliing up which could be a good strat to get your node up faster than your neighbours. So PvP can be a tool to get your node you call home ahead of the neighbours one that could stop your node progression. Corruption should stop you being able to do this often though which is fine. Killing people leveling near your level range isnt neccesarily bad cause you could simply be defending the spawn/area your farming the loosing player has the option to either move somewhere else, try and kill the other person or socialise and ask for help which i think is fair. Social interactions in MMO especialy negatives one i found tend to leave a lasting impression which makes the games more memorable atleast from what ive seen and overcoming these thing often feel more rewarding, The game isnt for everyone but if you can accept being attacked from time to time then i think this gamne would leave a more lasting impression. We cant realy comment on PvP tbh atm since we dont know the corruption penalty ratio of how many green can u kill before u drop gear or if we can kill lowbies (which i hope not) but i dont think we should be making all these anti pvp posts until we see corruption and how it works.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH2EPR8ido4&ab_channel=Narc Good video imo
BaSkA13 wrote: » novercalis wrote: » Why not have a system that soft flags you, if you are carrying specific resources? Maybe Common and Uncommon items wont soft flag you for pvp, but the second you are carrying a rare or higher, other players may attack you now for that resources. After all - we are fighting for resources, fighting for Economy. I understand why people are against PvP griefing, unfortunately however, two people might disagree regarding what can be considered griefing and what cannot. In my view, your idea doesn't "fix" any of the "problems" we might have with the current system (which is not perfect and will need to be balanced during testing), instead it adds unnecessary complexity to it and even creates some problems. If I understand your idea correctly and if it was implemented, I'd give everyone I see a love tap, if they can't be attacked it means they aren't soft flagged, so I'll just keep doing it until I find someone who is worth killing. In other words, let's remove the risk of getting corruption for killing people carrying jack shit and turn people who are carrying good loot into beacons of death. Respectfully, the more I hear ideas to help against griefing or whatever people say their intentions are, the more I become sure that the current system is actually pretty good. Regardless of any of our preferences, though, I'd bet Steven will end up switching to a PvP system/mechanics similar to EVE's or Albion's, that segregates the player base (which is very bad for many reasons, IMO) but keeps most of the PvE and PvP audiences happy. Maybe this month they'll announce more nullsec zones or maybe they'll announce the first highsec zone, which will then confirm my hunch.
George_Black wrote: » Now back to the topic I keep hearing about high lv players killing low lv players. Why would the do that? No reason. Will they do that? Well, 99.99% they wont, due to losing items upon death as a red player. Will there be griefers? Yes. Will they always kill the victim? Definately no. Should there be a resisign of the successful L2 flagging system, because people that havent played/understood how important the conflict of interest is in an open world mmo with a serious crafting/economy system? Hell no. Will I PK innocent players? Yes, if I want all the mobs in the area for my group. Is it griefing? No, my reason is to have top xp/farm per hour in the area and I dont want other players around. Will the victim QQ? Probably. Should there be a system to protect him/her? No. Because that would make AoC similar to all the other safe mmos out there. Go play those. Will AoC lose potential players? Yes. Could Steven make more money if he didnt bother to make the game he wants and the game that so many other oldschool mmo players want? Yes. Will Steven provide players options to avoid losing? No. Does he care if this game wont be for everybody? No, but "our feedback is welcome. "But we might not go with that direction".
