Is the goal truly PvX?

This is a general question on both how players interpret Intrepid Studio's vision, as well as what players actually desire.

I seem to see a general consensus that PvP is the main focus. But I'm wondering is PvE really even a big part of the game? Sure there are NPC mobs and bosses but their importance seems to be dwarfed by the ability to PvP around them. Most people seem to only want their PvE if it also has PvP.

Rust is a PvP game, just because PvE elements exist in Rust doesn't mean people call it a PvX game.

So is this game PvX? Or is it just a PvP game?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Hinotori

Its already been said here, and I'm loving the discussion but I'll just say my bit.

PvX is having no separation between the pvp aspects of the game and the pve aspects. To pvp you will need dungeons for gear and repairs.

To move trade goods you will need to pvp.

And that's what makes the game great.

Noaani

Natasha wrote: »

Its already been said here, and I'm loving the discussion but I'll just say my bit.

PvX is having no separation between the pvp aspects of the game and the pve aspects. To pvp you will need dungeons for gear and repairs.

To move trade goods you will need to pvp.

And that's what makes the game great.

In other words, you PvE in order to be able to PvP.

Making PvP the main aspect of the game.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

In other words, you PvE in order to be able to PvP.

Making PvP the main aspect of the game.

But you have to PvP in order to PvE successfully and you need PvE to keep pvping successfully.

worddog2

NiKr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

In other words, you PvE in order to be able to PvP.

Making PvP the main aspect of the game.

But you have to PvP in order to PvE successfully and you need PvE to keep pvping successfully.

Do you really need to PvP? Like lets say we remove the ability to PvP. Can't you still complete the PvE content and progress normally? To my knowledge, PvP is meant to destroy rather than create content. It functions as the game's item sink no?

Vyril

PvX = player vs everything

Players
Monsters
Politics
Environment
Economy

You will be challenged by all these things when you play at all times.

Ludullu

worddog wrote: »

Do you really need to PvP? Like lets say we remove the ability to PvP. Can't you still complete the PvE content and progress normally? To my knowledge, PvP is meant to destroy rather than create content. It functions as the game's item sink no?

You have way less resources than the people after said resources. So if you want to get something - you gotta earn it. Want to kill a cool boss? You gotta go through whoever knows how many guilds trying to do the same. Want to collect a rare gatherable? Better hope there's no one around you with the skills to do the same, because they're quite likely to attack you for it. And the same principle applies to all the pvp events in the game.

And those who get to have those things will then use them against other people who have either already gotten them or are about to get them. And it's on Intrepid to properly balance the powerscaling of those things, so that the first winners don't just immediately snowball into an unbeatable force.

If you remove pvp from the game, only those who have the bigger number of players will always win. They'll have the biggest numbers on bosses and win out in the dps competition. They'll have the most gatherers who'll be collecting all the valuables around the clock. And they will then use those resources to win in any pvp events, because everyone would have worse stuff.

Those big guilds would still have higher chances for success in the pvp version, but smaller guilds can at least do smth about that, while on pve servers you literally can't.

Noaani

NiKr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

In other words, you PvE in order to be able to PvP.

Making PvP the main aspect of the game.

But you have to PvP in order to PvE successfully and you need PvE to keep pvping successfully.

A circular system kind of works, but I don't see this one being all that good.

PvE is a circular system. You kill mobs in order to get better gear so that you can kill harder mobs so that you can get better gear so that you can kill harder mobs.

The thing is, within that circle, developers have the ability to throw in myriad variety in terms of mobs.

Even with a class system like Ashes is set to have, there is a hundred times more variety possible in PvE than there is in PvP.

When you have a circle where you PvE in order to PvP and you PvP in order to PvE,unless that PvE has that same variety (no PvP MMO has had it as yet), then you just dont have that same variety.

Vyril wrote: »

PvX = player vs everything

Players
Monsters
Politics
Environment
Economy

You will be challenged by all these things when you play at all times.

I have yet to see a PvX game where "monsters" offer a challenge.

Sure, they exist. They are dead easy though, and the only challenge involved when taking them on is if another player comes along.

This is kind of the point. PvX SHOULD have monsters that are a challenge outside of other players. Ashes wont have that though, not according to what we know about the game.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

I have yet to see a PvX game where "monsters" offer a challenge.

Sure, they exist. They are dead easy though, and the only challenge involved when taking them on is if another player comes along.

This is kind of the point. PvX SHOULD have monsters that are a challenge outside of other players. Ashes wont have that though, not according to what we know about the game.

That's why I said that Ashes has a chance to fix this issue. Most likely they won't, but there's a chance!

Dygz

NiKr wrote: »

PvP requires PvE and scarcity of PvE leads to PvP. That kind of interconnectedness makes the game PvX.

That describes a game for PvPers; not PvEers.
So it's a PvP-centric game... and then PvX can mean whatever PvPers want it to mean.

Hinotori

worddog wrote: »

NiKr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

In other words, you PvE in order to be able to PvP.

Making PvP the main aspect of the game.

But you have to PvP in order to PvE successfully and you need PvE to keep pvping successfully.

Do you really need to PvP? Like lets say we remove the ability to PvP. Can't you still complete the PvE content and progress normally? To my knowledge, PvP is meant to destroy rather than create content. It functions as the game's item sink no?

It is part of the games item sink. But also a huge part of its progression. (Because if we remove pvp the node sieges and guild wars and so on go too.)

You also almost completely remove the entire naval aspect of the game.

The open world pvp encounters for resources goes along with espionage and scouting gameplay and the ability to do anything about groups camping those resources.

PVP is an absolute must have in the game for It to function. Otherwise it's just going to be a generic pve mmo like bless offline. (With way better features and content still sure, but nothing anyone would stick around to play)

worddog2

Natasha wrote: »

PVP is an absolute must have in the game for It to function. Otherwise it's just going to be a generic pve mmo like bless offline.

Isn't a generic mmo still a functional mmo? I'm not saying it would be good, just functional.

Hinotori

worddog wrote: »

Natasha wrote: »

PVP is an absolute must have in the game for It to function. Otherwise it's just going to be a generic pve mmo like bless offline.

Isn't a generic mmo still a functional mmo? I'm not saying it would be good, just functional.

Sure. But that's not the vision here.

Steven wants an mmo which follows the risk vs reward path and is full of quality PVX content.

If you want a generic pve mmo theres others out there.

Ludullu

Dygz wrote: »

That describes a game for PvPers; not PvEers.
So it's a PvP-centric game... and then PvX can mean whatever PvPers want it to mean.

Dygz, it can't be a pvx game w/o requiring both sides of the spectrum. I know that pvers hate pvp, which is why they shouldn't play games that make them do pvp. But if those pvers want to play the game either way - they'll have to put up with pvp in just the same way as pvpers put up with pve.

The same goes for pvpers. If you want to only pvp - the game's not for you.

Strevi

Can you level up by doing only PvP?

Ludullu

Strevi wrote: »

Can you level up by doing only PvP?

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Leveling
XP will be awarded for participating in objective-based PvP on a diminishing returns basis.[6]

In other words, not really.

worddog2

NiKr wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

That describes a game for PvPers; not PvEers.
So it's a PvP-centric game... and then PvX can mean whatever PvPers want it to mean.

Dygz, it can't be a pvx game w/o requiring both sides of the spectrum. I know that pvers hate pvp, which is why they shouldn't play games that make them do pvp. But if those pvers want to play the game either way - they'll have to put up with pvp in just the same way as pvpers put up with pve.

The same goes for pvpers. If you want to only pvp - the game's not for you.

If you only want to PvP, cant you do that? PvP is always enabled and there will always be other players right?

Ludullu

worddog wrote: »

If you only want to PvP, cant you do that? PvP is always enabled and there will always be other players right?

You'd need to level up first and that's mainly through pve. You then need gear to survive that pvp. Theoretically your friends could give it to you, but those would have to be some very loyal friends that give their hard-earned gear TO YOU, while you sit on your ass and do nothing.

But even then, in the bigger picture of gear acquisition, the only way to get said gear is to PvE.

worddog2

NiKr wrote: »

worddog wrote: »

If you only want to PvP, cant you do that? PvP is always enabled and there will always be other players right?

You'd need to level up first and that's mainly through pvp. You then need gear to survive that pvp. Theoretically your friends could give it to you, but those would have to be some very loyal friends that give their hard-earned gear TO YOU, while you sit on your ass and do nothing.

But even then, in the bigger picture of gear acquisition, the only way to get said gear is to PvE.

Doesn't leveling kind of count as Open World PvP though because you're always under threat and you can always threaten others? I understand it's not direct PvP but from a PvE perspective just the possibility of PvP is a pretty big difference.

Ludullu

worddog wrote: »

Doesn't leveling kind of count as Open World PvP though because you're always under threat and you can always threaten others? I understand it's not direct PvP but from a PvE perspective just the possibility of PvP is a pretty big difference.

Which is exactly why the game is called pvx. You have both pve and pvp at the same time. And in most cases you need both to progress.

superhero6785

worddog wrote: »

Doesn't that definition just make most PvP games PvX? Like is League of Legends a PvX game because there is a jungle with neutral NPC enemies?

Is Fortnite PvX because they have enemy NPCs?

When I say PvX I'm not asking does PvE content exist, I'm just asking about the focus of the game. Sure you can technically call Fortnite a PvX game but I'm asking in terms of reality, like what should people actually expect.

If you're comparing a typical MMO's PvE content to the League of Legends jungle objectives, then you're down a rabbit hole we cannot pull you out of.

PvE content are things like - Main Story Quests, Side Quests, Dungeons, Instanced Raids. Things where the objective during participation do not involve fighting any other players.

PvP content would be things like - Arenas, Open World Combatants, Castle Sieges, Node Sieges, Caravans. Things where the objective expressly includes fighting other players. (This is where League of Legends sits, FYI)

PvX takes those elements and mixes them - Open World Raids, World Bosses, Corruption (killing & stealing from gatherers, defending a farming spot, etc.). These are things that don't necessarily require fighting other players, but has the potential to break out into PvP.

If anyone says you don't have to engage in PvP, they mean you don't have to participate in specified PvP activities. You can be a PvE focused player, however you will always live within the PvX world with the potential to come across someone who wants to kill you. Even if it's only during your short travel between town and an instanced dungeon.

Child Item