Question about mmo vs singleplayer rpg questing

Are there ways to make mmo questing similar to singleplayer quests, specificly Skyrim. I didnt play singleplayer games a lot (Skyrim 5h, assasins creed odyssey 10h and little bit of witcher 3).

Recently I started Skyrim and for 5hours I have been surprised for 5 times st least by game design. I play 1h daily and every playtrough Ive been surprised at least once.

Today I was on quest about temple of Mirak (of I pronounced that name right) and I took quest and I didnt go for it immediately, so I went roaming in this area to search side quests since they are hidden (no npc pointers above their heads) andI stumbled upon some elf miner, when I finished speaking to him I found bed near him, so I went to rest to regain magicka (I am playing on survival mode), then when I woke up I found myself in temple of Mirak with some other nord femaleand we got ambushed. I saved game and quit because I want to play Skyrim daily for longer period of time.

I am asking this out of curiocity,can something similar be done in MMO games? Is it too complex to codeand if it is not, why are devs not stealing ideas from this masterpiece of game?

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Azherae

VekoCrnogorac wrote: »

I found some videos of a guy leveling in areas around 10lvl and killing mobs with fre basic attacksand a fireball. There was no commenting in his video just pure gameplay. Wow is not even close to that, at level 7-8 and higher, every mob that has same lvl as you leaves you with 50%hp... its a big difference from what I saw.

Oh, one of the Wand User videos?

Well, unfortunately if you are willing to disregard what I say due to that (and I don't blame you, one is evidence, one is not), I can't really do much, I didn't personally record my Alpha-1 gameplay.

That's kind of sad, because you ARE talking about the same thing I am used to, and experience, but you got the 'mage spam' version, and it's true that mages have a particularly silly effectiveness in certain parts of Alpha-1.

There's also another reason, which honestly means I should agree with you more. Intrepid has said that they specifically intend to avoid 'your abilities being scaled based on level difference'. I don't know how they intend to make a game that doesn't get cheesed while still doing this, but it is another indicator that you are going to be right, in the long run.

Mobs need to have so much HP in that system, that I don't even want to think about the balance requirements.

But an at-level mob leaving you at 50% HP is still not very different from what I'm talking about. Ashes had this, the enemies just had to be 1-2 levels above you instead. I can see how this would have 'fallen apart' at higher levels, though, specifically BECAUSE of the lack of scaling and the gear-level jumps.

So, assume I am conceding the point. Ashes open world might, in fact, either be weak mobs or mobs that are easy to exploit even if they're not directly weak. We'll have to see which design model 'wins' in the end. Given everything else about the game, I think you have better odds of being right than me.

Percimes

novercalis wrote: »

I dont believe in the concept of, defeating something stronger than you as a solo player.

EQ system used a color system

Grey = no XP, so eazy to kill
Light Blue = 4-6 levels below you
Dark Blue 1-3 levels below you
White = equal level
Yellow = 1-2 levels above
Red = 3+ level above

Trying to kill an equal level npc for most classes was near fatal.
Almost everyone killed light blues solo wise, some classes risking dark blues.

Groups would pull yellows. Never a red. Whomever is the highest level player in the group, if it cons red to them, it was a no go.
The only exception to that rule is, if you know 100% sure the mobs level (another EQ thing, you dont know what level they are!) and the avg level of the group is very close, then the risk is worth. But if not, you risk players unable to beat it's AC to deal dmg other than your highest lvl player, whom hopefully better be a DPS at this point.

Just going to sprinkle a little bit of salt from my own experience... I was soloing white and some yellow with my shadow knight. I've soloed a yellow cyclops with my ranger too. It wasn't efficient, but it was doable, just needed room to kite and it resulted in long downtime. I didn't even had particularly strong gear.

Although I never witnessed it personally, some bards could apparently kite impressively higher level mobs.

Groups were much more efficient for xp, but many classes could solo rather well. Druids, Shamans, Necro, Magician. I remember regaining my lost xp on a naked wizard waiting for the boat back to my corpse.

Groups allowed to survive pulls with multiple mobs and to chain pull, with almost no total downtime.

novercalis

Percimes wrote: »

novercalis wrote: »

I dont believe in the concept of, defeating something stronger than you as a solo player.

EQ system used a color system

Grey = no XP, so eazy to kill
Light Blue = 4-6 levels below you
Dark Blue 1-3 levels below you
White = equal level
Yellow = 1-2 levels above
Red = 3+ level above

Trying to kill an equal level npc for most classes was near fatal.
Almost everyone killed light blues solo wise, some classes risking dark blues.

Groups would pull yellows. Never a red. Whomever is the highest level player in the group, if it cons red to them, it was a no go.
The only exception to that rule is, if you know 100% sure the mobs level (another EQ thing, you dont know what level they are!) and the avg level of the group is very close, then the risk is worth. But if not, you risk players unable to beat it's AC to deal dmg other than your highest lvl player, whom hopefully better be a DPS at this point.

Just going to sprinkle a little bit of salt from my own experience... I was soloing white and some yellow with my shadow knight. I've soloed a yellow cyclops with my ranger too. It wasn't efficient, but it was doable, just needed room to kite and it resulted in long downtime. I didn't even had particularly strong gear.

Although I never witnessed it personally, some bards could apparently kite impressively higher level mobs.

Groups were much more efficient for xp, but many classes could solo rather well. Druids, Shamans, Necro, Magician. I remember regaining my lost xp on a naked wizard waiting for the boat back to my corpse.

Groups allowed to survive pulls with multiple mobs and to chain pull, with almost no total downtime.

During it's prime days - that probably didnt happen much and most importantly inefficient. which is okay.

Yea nowadays in P99, the math has been out and everything got min/max.
But also realize many of them are starting off with lvl 1 classes twinked the fuck out.
Second p99 doesnt have the entire EQ code correct. They made modification, thus it's not a 1:1 perfect recreation of EQ. Stamina/Energy isnt even there. When they released the equations, the community dissected everything and min/max to new heights. Bards and Necros are S tier solo classes in p99. This wasn't true in EQ, only mages and Enchanters were somewhat capable of soloing during Live at the time of equal level.

But these classes that were able to solo still fought below their levels, only necro fought equal level and bards were just broken, kiting things above their weight class in masses. I dont know much about SK, but a twinked out SK is a scary thing. Most of the kiting could have been patched via Live by devs introducing range npc or abilities to end that from happening, and there goes the solo capabilities

novercalis

Azh

Yeah in Everquest, during it's first 3-4 expansions. 90% of the population couldnt fight something of their same level.

Level 20 player would normally kill level 16-19 mobs.
Almost no-one would fight whites unless your a duo, enchanter, or have a pet class or potential kiting 1 target. These fights took 1-3 minutes and draining you of all your resources and having to sit down and regen everything back.

Group content, a party of 6 level 20 would still only fight mobs 18-24.
They can easily handle one 24. If Two 24 arrive - if you don't have CC or off-tank, it's a wipe. If you do have CC or off-tank it becomes a DPS check, cause clerics mana pool is very small, you don't want him to go OOM (out of Mana) by the time you guys begin to kill the 2nd one, and if an add comes - that is usually a wipe, even if you were able to CC, people would retreat cause the cleric wont have enough mana to heal.

Clerics with full mana is capable of casting 6-8 of their strongest heal. Most of the time, they never have full mana on them, as every 20 min, he needs to rebuff himself and the tank. So tension always keep rising in a room. There is a innate DPS check to control a single dungeon room. Party make up also mattered greatly.

Azherae

novercalis wrote: »

Azh

Yeah in Everquest, during it's first 3-4 expansions. 90% of the population couldnt fight something of their same level.

Level 20 player would normally kill level 16-19 mobs.
Almost no-one would fight whites unless your a duo, enchanter, or have a pet class or potential kiting 1 target. These fights took 1-3 minutes and draining you of all your resources and having to sit down and regen everything back.

Group content, a party of 6 level 20 would still only fight mobs 18-24.
They can easily handle one 24. If Two 24 arrive - if you don't have CC or off-tank, it's a wipe. If you do have CC or off-tank it becomes a DPS check, cause clerics mana pool is very small, you don't want him to go OOM (out of Mana) by the time you guys begin to kill the 2nd one, and if an add comes - that is usually a wipe, even if you were able to CC, people would retreat cause the cleric wont have enough mana to heal.

Clerics with full mana is capable of casting 6-8 of their strongest heal. Most of the time, they never have full mana on them, as every 20 min, he needs to rebuff himself and the tank. So tension always keep rising in a room. There is a innate DPS check to control a single dungeon room. Party make up also mattered greatly.

My only point is that FFXI works almost exactly like this, so I wanted to have OP understand that, yes, I ALSO have this same game experience.

It is, again, close to what I experienced in Ashes Alpha-1 if you put the levels up by just one or two. The systems are the same and I've been playing FFXI since I was little, basically.

But it's also true that fully geared on a solo class meant I could fight a 45 at level 40. I'd nearly die sometimes, and I'd have to tweak the whole kit and gear and never get a link, but that was the fun part.

I was able to have this same fun in Ashes, but I accept that with the whole 'We're not scaling anything' and the way Wand worked in Alpha-1, it could easily have just NOT worked like that for a level 10 wand user vs higher level mobs.

There are also situations where raw player skill DOES cause this on solo classes. So, I'm familiar, I'm just ALSO aware of flexibility and skill levels high enough for it to matter. I don't know how to confirm that without 'bragging' or 'going to play EQ2' though, I would expect to get just the 'well FFXI must have been easier' response from OP at this point.

Vaknar

Epic quests like this one are indeed possible in MMORPGs. There are some MMORPGs out there that have done quite well with the singleplayer questing experience!

We're working on making questing in Ashes of Creation an immersive and unique experience, full of wonder, intrigue, and adventure! ^_^

I'd love to hear more about all of your favorite quests, whether they're from MMORPGs or just RPGs! What can you share from your memories?

novercalis

Vaknar wrote: »

Epic quests like this one are indeed possible in MMORPGs. There are some MMORPGs out there that have done quite well with the singleplayer questing experience!

We're working on making questing in Ashes of Creation an immersive and unique experience, full of wonder, intrigue, and adventure! ^_^

I'd love to hear more about all of your favorite quests, whether they're from MMORPGs or just RPGs! What can you share from your memories?

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/54441/best-in-slot-epic-quest-line-core-class#latest

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