I would say the only thing i explicitly dislike about Ashes currently would be profession level progression not being directly bound to class level progression. Which could open up possibilities of "exploiting" the system with low class level master Gatherers/crafters.
Can you explain what you mean by exploiting? I am failing to understand the problem you are suggesting.
Can be explained in 2 categories, the Bot abuse and the Alt abuse of systems.
Both of those can ravage through nodes with their lvl 1 gatherers armies which can only be properly dealt with other lv 1 armies to evade massive corruption gain on main high level characters.
As for lv 1 processors and crafters alts, they can be simple put in freeholds with little effort and do all their job for you in safety basically breaking the inter-dependency community design and creating the Dreaded Alt Advantage which in subscripion games can be considered P2W.
As for the use of the word "exploiting" you can interpret it the way you like.
Bots should be rare if nonexistent. The game has absolutely zero free-to-play options, which makes botting expensive, and there will be measures in place to detect and deal with scripting. I'm not naive enough to think that it will be impossible, but I can't see that it's feasible to do them.
I also don't see how you can abuse alts. As long as you're not botting, it's just another character you are playing. Multiboxing is going to be very difficult to achieve without automated scripting, which is bannable behavior that again they've pledged to detect and take care of.
I don't see level 1 gatherers being very useful. They aren't going to live very long. Let me just say, if it is anything like it was in Alpha 1, you are going to get mauled to death by NPCs before you're able to do much gathering.
I just don't think your scenario is going to work.
iF there is something WoW and Lineage 2(during subscription era) taught me is that botting and RMT are quite outstanding beast even in Subscription games where the prices of things are higher because of the existence of losses in subscription prices, but even higher prices for RMT to profit.
I pray that Ashes has amazing anti-cheating code and methods, atleast as amazing as the lengths RMTs will go to circumvent them, money truly is one of the strongest motivator out there you know?
Circunventing NPCs is the easiest thing when you know and program around their aggro ranges an paths.
In the end i just hope that you are right and that i'm wrong even tho it's very unlikely to be the case in my eyes...
Aren't we all sinners?
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I would say the only thing i explicitly dislike about Ashes currently would be profession level progression not being directly bound to class level progression. Which could open up possibilities of "exploiting" the system with low class level master Gatherers/crafters.
Can you explain what you mean by exploiting? I am failing to understand the problem you are suggesting.
Can be explained in 2 categories, the Bot abuse and the Alt abuse of systems.
Both of those can ravage through nodes with their lvl 1 gatherers armies which can only be properly dealt with other lv 1 armies to evade massive corruption gain on main high level characters.
As for lv 1 processors and crafters alts, they can be simple put in freeholds with little effort and do all their job for you in safety basically breaking the inter-dependency community design and creating the Dreaded Alt Advantage which in subscripion games can be considered P2W.
As for the use of the word "exploiting" you can interpret it the way you like.
Bots should be rare if nonexistent. The game has absolutely zero free-to-play options, which makes botting expensive, and there will be measures in place to detect and deal with scripting. I'm not naive enough to think that it will be impossible, but I can't see that it's feasible to do them.
I also don't see how you can abuse alts. As long as you're not botting, it's just another character you are playing. Multiboxing is going to be very difficult to achieve without automated scripting, which is bannable behavior that again they've pledged to detect and take care of.
I don't see level 1 gatherers being very useful. They aren't going to live very long. Let me just say, if it is anything like it was in Alpha 1, you are going to get mauled to death by NPCs before you're able to do much gathering.
I just don't think your scenario is going to work.
iF there is something WoW and Lineage 2(during subscription era) taught me is that botting and RMT are quite outstanding beast even in Subscription games where the prices of things are higher because of the existence of losses in subscription prices, but even higher prices for RMT to profit.
I pray that Ashes has amazing anti-cheating code and methods, atleast as amazing as the lengths RMTs will go to circumvent them, money truly is one of the strongest motivator out there you know?
Circunventing NPCs is the easiest thing when you know and program around their aggro ranges an paths.
In the end i just hope that you are right and that i'm wrong even tho it's very unlikely to be the case in my eyes...
L2 and WoW let people play for free. That's why bots are feasible.
And NPCs were really aggressive and difficult to get around in A1. I'm speaking as someone who has been playing MMOs for much more than 20 years. They made it a lot harder than your typical MMO to get around safely.
I would say the only thing i explicitly dislike about Ashes currently would be profession level progression not being directly bound to class level progression. Which could open up possibilities of "exploiting" the system with low class level master Gatherers/crafters.
Can you explain what you mean by exploiting? I am failing to understand the problem you are suggesting.
Can be explained in 2 categories, the Bot abuse and the Alt abuse of systems.
Both of those can ravage through nodes with their lvl 1 gatherers armies which can only be properly dealt with other lv 1 armies to evade massive corruption gain on main high level characters.
As for lv 1 processors and crafters alts, they can be simple put in freeholds with little effort and do all their job for you in safety basically breaking the inter-dependency community design and creating the Dreaded Alt Advantage which in subscripion games can be considered P2W.
As for the use of the word "exploiting" you can interpret it the way you like.
Bots should be rare if nonexistent. The game has absolutely zero free-to-play options, which makes botting expensive, and there will be measures in place to detect and deal with scripting. I'm not naive enough to think that it will be impossible, but I can't see that it's feasible to do them.
I also don't see how you can abuse alts. As long as you're not botting, it's just another character you are playing. Multiboxing is going to be very difficult to achieve without automated scripting, which is bannable behavior that again they've pledged to detect and take care of.
I don't see level 1 gatherers being very useful. They aren't going to live very long. Let me just say, if it is anything like it was in Alpha 1, you are going to get mauled to death by NPCs before you're able to do much gathering.
I just don't think your scenario is going to work.
iF there is something WoW and Lineage 2(during subscription era) taught me is that botting and RMT are quite outstanding beast even in Subscription games where the prices of things are higher because of the existence of losses in subscription prices, but even higher prices for RMT to profit.
I pray that Ashes has amazing anti-cheating code and methods, atleast as amazing as the lengths RMTs will go to circumvent them, money truly is one of the strongest motivator out there you know?
Circunventing NPCs is the easiest thing when you know and program around their aggro ranges an paths.
In the end i just hope that you are right and that i'm wrong even tho it's very unlikely to be the case in my eyes...
L2 and WoW let people play for free. That's why bots are feasible.
And NPCs were really aggressive and difficult to get around in A1. I'm speaking as someone who has been playing MMOs for much more than 20 years. They made it a lot harder than your typical MMO to get around safely.
WoW isnt free.... RMT was huge in its prime, same went for Everquest during its prime and still is currently.
Both games are subscriptions. I can't speak on L2 since I never played it.
RMT will exist in Ashes of Creation - maybe not in terms of buying gold but players selling high end loot that are gated by the players.
Think of Vanilla WoW - Devilsaur Mafia and Lotus Mafia.
Everquest - not every player ever gets the chance to see raid content, since it is open world and contested - the same goes for AoC Raid Content. Poopsocking high end guilds will lock contents out from players and sell in-game at very high prices to eventually RMT via secret discords.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
Send in an army of level 1 gatherers to strip a nodes resources. Can't kill them due to massive corruption difference.
I have full confidence they will fix this if it becomes an issue. It's such an easy fix with a no brainer variety of solutions.
The biggest issue I have with Ashes, and Intrepid, is the seemingly lack of confidence that others have already touched on.
It manifests itself on several different fronts that I'm not going to go in detail about. But it's concerning. Lead yourself and the genre with confidence Intrepid, or just be another average mmo.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I would say the only thing i explicitly dislike about Ashes currently would be profession level progression not being directly bound to class level progression. Which could open up possibilities of "exploiting" the system with low class level master Gatherers/crafters.
Can you explain what you mean by exploiting? I am failing to understand the problem you are suggesting.
Can be explained in 2 categories, the Bot abuse and the Alt abuse of systems.
Both of those can ravage through nodes with their lvl 1 gatherers armies which can only be properly dealt with other lv 1 armies to evade massive corruption gain on main high level characters.
As for lv 1 processors and crafters alts, they can be simple put in freeholds with little effort and do all their job for you in safety basically breaking the inter-dependency community design and creating the Dreaded Alt Advantage which in subscripion games can be considered P2W.
As for the use of the word "exploiting" you can interpret it the way you like.
Bots should be rare if nonexistent. The game has absolutely zero free-to-play options, which makes botting expensive, and there will be measures in place to detect and deal with scripting. I'm not naive enough to think that it will be impossible, but I can't see that it's feasible to do them.
I also don't see how you can abuse alts. As long as you're not botting, it's just another character you are playing. Multiboxing is going to be very difficult to achieve without automated scripting, which is bannable behavior that again they've pledged to detect and take care of.
I don't see level 1 gatherers being very useful. They aren't going to live very long. Let me just say, if it is anything like it was in Alpha 1, you are going to get mauled to death by NPCs before you're able to do much gathering.
I just don't think your scenario is going to work.
iF there is something WoW and Lineage 2(during subscription era) taught me is that botting and RMT are quite outstanding beast even in Subscription games where the prices of things are higher because of the existence of losses in subscription prices, but even higher prices for RMT to profit.
I pray that Ashes has amazing anti-cheating code and methods, atleast as amazing as the lengths RMTs will go to circumvent them, money truly is one of the strongest motivator out there you know?
Circunventing NPCs is the easiest thing when you know and program around their aggro ranges an paths.
In the end i just hope that you are right and that i'm wrong even tho it's very unlikely to be the case in my eyes...
L2 and WoW let people play for free. That's why bots are feasible.
And NPCs were really aggressive and difficult to get around in A1. I'm speaking as someone who has been playing MMOs for much more than 20 years. They made it a lot harder than your typical MMO to get around safely.
WoW isnt free.... RMT was huge in its prime, same went for Everquest during its prime and still is currently.
Both games are subscriptions. I can't speak on L2 since I never played it.
RMT will exist in Ashes of Creation - maybe not in terms of buying gold but players selling high end loot that are gated by the players.
Think of Vanilla WoW - Devilsaur Mafia and Lotus Mafia.
Everquest - not every player ever gets the chance to see raid content, since it is open world and contested - the same goes for AoC Raid Content. Poopsocking high end guilds will lock contents out from players and sell in-game at very high prices to eventually RMT via secret discords.
LOL, how many years has it been since you've played WoW?
It has offered free play for over a decade now. It's only up to level 20 but just the same,
L2 is your typical free-to-play pay-to-win Asian MMO.
Of course RMT will exist. There is literally no way to prevent it. We are not talking about RMT as a whole, but specifically the feasibility of botting. In a game that has zero options for playing without a subscription, not even a demo (which many people have asked for over the years, not happening), you are automatically going to limit botting.
I play Lost Ark (though it has been a while since I logged in) and the vast majority of characters are bots. I am not kidding. In every zone you will see dozens of identical-looking characters running around and doing stuff. It's rare to see another actual person in most areas. That's sort of the other extreme.
Now apparently this is mostly an issue in North American servers. Not EU servers. Why? Because folks in North America will actually buy gold and other resources. Folks in EU aren't buying. So therefore, bots are much rarer.
But I don't think that it's the restrictive F2P that makes bots so rampant in WoW. It's because of Blizzard.
“There were over 50 people doing a line walk and yelling,” says Loknar. He was trying to draw attention to the issue, asking passers-by not to buy the Black Lotuses that bots put on the auction house at an inflated 300 gold. (The normal price on most servers, he says, is about half that.) Loknar made a racket, but the mafia knew how to shut him up. The bots mass-reported him to publisher Blizzard for “abusive chat.” Blizzard muted Loknar’s account, and those of other protest participants, for 24 hours. In the meantime, the bots got their Black Lotuses to the auction houses, where they maintained their monopoly.
If Intrepid doesn't suck as much as Blizzard, or Amazon (in the case of Lost Ark) then hopefully bots won't be an issue. Honestly, they're not a problem in most MMOs that I've played.
I would say the only thing i explicitly dislike about Ashes currently would be profession level progression not being directly bound to class level progression. Which could open up possibilities of "exploiting" the system with low class level master Gatherers/crafters.
Can you explain what you mean by exploiting? I am failing to understand the problem you are suggesting.
Can be explained in 2 categories, the Bot abuse and the Alt abuse of systems.
Both of those can ravage through nodes with their lvl 1 gatherers armies which can only be properly dealt with other lv 1 armies to evade massive corruption gain on main high level characters.
As for lv 1 processors and crafters alts, they can be simple put in freeholds with little effort and do all their job for you in safety basically breaking the inter-dependency community design and creating the Dreaded Alt Advantage which in subscripion games can be considered P2W.
As for the use of the word "exploiting" you can interpret it the way you like.
Bots should be rare if nonexistent. The game has absolutely zero free-to-play options, which makes botting expensive, and there will be measures in place to detect and deal with scripting. I'm not naive enough to think that it will be impossible, but I can't see that it's feasible to do them.
I also don't see how you can abuse alts. As long as you're not botting, it's just another character you are playing. Multiboxing is going to be very difficult to achieve without automated scripting, which is bannable behavior that again they've pledged to detect and take care of.
I don't see level 1 gatherers being very useful. They aren't going to live very long. Let me just say, if it is anything like it was in Alpha 1, you are going to get mauled to death by NPCs before you're able to do much gathering.
I just don't think your scenario is going to work.
iF there is something WoW and Lineage 2(during subscription era) taught me is that botting and RMT are quite outstanding beast even in Subscription games where the prices of things are higher because of the existence of losses in subscription prices, but even higher prices for RMT to profit.
I pray that Ashes has amazing anti-cheating code and methods, atleast as amazing as the lengths RMTs will go to circumvent them, money truly is one of the strongest motivator out there you know?
Circunventing NPCs is the easiest thing when you know and program around their aggro ranges an paths.
In the end i just hope that you are right and that i'm wrong even tho it's very unlikely to be the case in my eyes...
L2 and WoW let people play for free. That's why bots are feasible.
And NPCs were really aggressive and difficult to get around in A1. I'm speaking as someone who has been playing MMOs for much more than 20 years. They made it a lot harder than your typical MMO to get around safely.
Lineage 2 for the absolute majority of its existence(before Free to play) did not had a free trial, and RMT/bots still thrived before it's implementation.
As for the NPCs, aggro range was still consistent and dealable tho, we will have to see what the end product will be.
Aren't we all sinners?
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StrytaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The PVP part of the game.
From what i think i know, the pvp feels more of a "lets have it in game but make it something you kinda dont have a lot of incentive." It seems like its an 80-20 sort of approach. i dont feel there is a whole lot of value in it. i feel pvp needs to have more benefit to it, other than getting some crafting materials. i know AoC is still early in development and no matter what intrepid does will be great.
I know intrepid has said they're about the whole feeling like you've actually achieved something with your character in terms of time played/ progression/ gearing etc. So in my opinion im hoping that after so many hours played, after getting the best gear and after building my character in a way im hoping that it will feel that way in pvp. like i know its not a popular opinion but if a maxed out dude attacks someone with no gear it should be pretty apparent. Personally im not a fan of the whole equalizing stats and what not. (i know they said they aren't going to do it)
Obviously it would be bad for maxed characters to be harassing newbies. So im hoping in terms of the bounty system that the bounties could be near infinite. Like i could be completely infamous in a server maybe to the point where certain nodes/NPCs attack on site ( maybe even jailed for an hour) and because of my decisions i would have to make my home in nodes who would be PvP oriented (maybe lawless). Me personally, if i made that decision to be heavily invest in pvp (world pvp that triggers the bounty system) i would be fine with having heavy penalties when im caught/killed or jailed.
On the other side of things, being that i enjoy both PVP and PVE i feel it would be part of the MMORPG experience in my opinion to have a 50/50 approach to pvp in terms of viability. I love the feel Ashes has going for it. i think pvp just need a little more "incentive"? without changing too much like changing the entire game into 50% pvp 50% pve overall. They said they're doing a Rock-Paper-Scissors sort of approach when it comes to balance between classes and that you'll feel like you've achieved something so im hoping this means that strong characters will feel strong in either pvp or pvp. Obviously not game breaking strong but like if im a pebble fighting a mountain, i want to feel that.
While it is important to voice to the developers the things we enjoy about the game, and to encourage the game's creation, it's also equally important to voice our thoughts and opinions on things we don't like about the game and are concerned about.
What are some things you've seen that have you little concerned about or that you simply don't like?
I'm concerned that their combat will not be lockstep with their environment and we're going to get separate sets of art. it's going to be a huge detractor for the eye to follow. Also, not a fan of any of the fat the game has, like flavor texts. It's not a snipe till its a snipe.
S tiers don't exist, they're for entertainment. With that said, I have yet to see a MMO with combat that would actually pique interest of a lot of viewers online. Shroud has stated that the reason he doesn't stream WoW is because he loses a shit ton of followers. The art team is the best in the business, the interface will come in time, but I really hope they think about how their combat not only needs to captivate the people playing it, but they can build it in a way that its attractive to other viewers who would not normally watch an MMO being played.
So hope Ashes goes for the best combat system in the MMO genre, if they score an A. They've rose above all others. I don't know a single honest MMO player who would give any game an A if they're being completely honest. If you do thats fanboying, MMO combat systems are not a top priority.
We will see down the road, I'd like to see more originality out of the combat because it feels more like a Johnny Cash Cadillac meets a comic book. Hopefully they inject some of the realism they used and streamline it a bit, I hate gaudy looking lightshows.
Mini-Games for crafting are genuinely tedious and I'm a craftsman in real life, don't need it in game.
I would say the only thing i explicitly dislike about Ashes currently would be profession level progression not being directly bound to class level progression. Which could open up possibilities of "exploiting" the system with low class level master Gatherers/crafters.
Can you explain what you mean by exploiting? I am failing to understand the problem you are suggesting.
Can be explained in 2 categories, the Bot abuse and the Alt abuse of systems.
Both of those can ravage through nodes with their lvl 1 gatherers armies which can only be properly dealt with other lv 1 armies to evade massive corruption gain on main high level characters.
As for lv 1 processors and crafters alts, they can be simple put in freeholds with little effort and do all their job for you in safety basically breaking the inter-dependency community design and creating the Dreaded Alt Advantage which in subscripion games can be considered P2W.
As for the use of the word "exploiting" you can interpret it the way you like.
Bots should be rare if nonexistent. The game has absolutely zero free-to-play options, which makes botting expensive, and there will be measures in place to detect and deal with scripting. I'm not naive enough to think that it will be impossible, but I can't see that it's feasible to do them.
I also don't see how you can abuse alts. As long as you're not botting, it's just another character you are playing. Multiboxing is going to be very difficult to achieve without automated scripting, which is bannable behavior that again they've pledged to detect and take care of.
I don't see level 1 gatherers being very useful. They aren't going to live very long. Let me just say, if it is anything like it was in Alpha 1, you are going to get mauled to death by NPCs before you're able to do much gathering.
I just don't think your scenario is going to work.
iF there is something WoW and Lineage 2(during subscription era) taught me is that botting and RMT are quite outstanding beast even in Subscription games where the prices of things are higher because of the existence of losses in subscription prices, but even higher prices for RMT to profit.
I pray that Ashes has amazing anti-cheating code and methods, atleast as amazing as the lengths RMTs will go to circumvent them, money truly is one of the strongest motivator out there you know?
Circunventing NPCs is the easiest thing when you know and program around their aggro ranges an paths.
In the end i just hope that you are right and that i'm wrong even tho it's very unlikely to be the case in my eyes...
L2 and WoW let people play for free. That's why bots are feasible.
And NPCs were really aggressive and difficult to get around in A1. I'm speaking as someone who has been playing MMOs for much more than 20 years. They made it a lot harder than your typical MMO to get around safely.
WoW isnt free.... RMT was huge in its prime, same went for Everquest during its prime and still is currently.
Both games are subscriptions. I can't speak on L2 since I never played it.
RMT will exist in Ashes of Creation - maybe not in terms of buying gold but players selling high end loot that are gated by the players.
Think of Vanilla WoW - Devilsaur Mafia and Lotus Mafia.
Everquest - not every player ever gets the chance to see raid content, since it is open world and contested - the same goes for AoC Raid Content. Poopsocking high end guilds will lock contents out from players and sell in-game at very high prices to eventually RMT via secret discords.
LOL, how many years has it been since you've played WoW?
It has offered free play for over a decade now. It's only up to level 20 but just the same,
L2 is your typical free-to-play pay-to-win Asian MMO.
Of course RMT will exist. There is literally no way to prevent it. We are not talking about RMT as a whole, but specifically the feasibility of botting. In a game that has zero options for playing without a subscription, not even a demo (which many people have asked for over the years, not happening), you are automatically going to limit botting.
I play Lost Ark (though it has been a while since I logged in) and the vast majority of characters are bots. I am not kidding. In every zone you will see dozens of identical-looking characters running around and doing stuff. It's rare to see another actual person in most areas. That's sort of the other extreme.
Now apparently this is mostly an issue in North American servers. Not EU servers. Why? Because folks in North America will actually buy gold and other resources. Folks in EU aren't buying. So therefore, bots are much rarer.
But I don't think that it's the restrictive F2P that makes bots so rampant in WoW. It's because of Blizzard.
“There were over 50 people doing a line walk and yelling,” says Loknar. He was trying to draw attention to the issue, asking passers-by not to buy the Black Lotuses that bots put on the auction house at an inflated 300 gold. (The normal price on most servers, he says, is about half that.) Loknar made a racket, but the mafia knew how to shut him up. The bots mass-reported him to publisher Blizzard for “abusive chat.” Blizzard muted Loknar’s account, and those of other protest participants, for 24 hours. In the meantime, the bots got their Black Lotuses to the auction houses, where they maintained their monopoly.
If Intrepid doesn't suck as much as Blizzard, or Amazon (in the case of Lost Ark) then hopefully bots won't be an issue. Honestly, they're not a problem in most MMOs that I've played.
I love the feel Ashes has going for it. i think pvp just need a little more "incentive"?
I'm just curious, what would you want as that "incentive"?
personally i cant really think of what id want per se i just think the pvp side of things may need a bit more of a reward other than crafting materials but thats hard to say with it being early devolpment.
The crafting materials you get from killing someone could be perfect being that i get the idea that crafting is a big part.
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AtamaMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I love the feel Ashes has going for it. i think pvp just need a little more "incentive"?
I'm just curious, what would you want as that "incentive"?
personally i cant really think of what id want per se i just think the pvp side of things may need a bit more of a reward other than crafting materials but thats hard to say with it being early devolpment.
The crafting materials you get from killing someone could be perfect being that i get the idea that crafting is a big part.
The reward of pvp is comradery, us vs them, area control (grind spot), fighting to get ahead of the current.
It's the purest, most rewarding thing you can get from a real mmo. All the other is way behind.
But you cant understand this feeling if you have only played instanced raids, bg pvp, singleplayer story mode overland mmos.
There is nothing to worry about. You need to try it.
I definitely DONT'T like the corruption system.
This is a role-playing game and if I'm a pvp player and I want to play some monster or assassin or sabotage some state, then the corruption system just kills it all in the bud!
What is the point in outdoor if it is limited by the developers and attempts to go beyond the borders are immediately punished.
I definitely DON'T like it.
I want to kill whoever I want, whenever I want.
I agree to the risk of losing some of my resources, etc.
But put pvp debuffs on me and take away my equipment when I kill?
Are you serious rn?
personally i cant really think of what id want per se i just think the pvp side of things may need a bit more of a reward other than crafting materials but thats hard to say with it being early devolpment.
The crafting materials you get from killing someone could be perfect being that i get the idea that crafting is a big part.
Pretty much what George said. The loot is literally the smallest incentive in the system.
I think my issue or concern have been the combat style. I understand things change, but the play style has changed several times. From Apocalypse (Fun but was a clone of Warframe), to Alpha 1 (Fun & fast paced) to Ranger showcase (Loved!) to recent heal group showcase (Slow felt mobile game like).
I just want Intrepid to settle what combat in Ashes actually is and what it's supposed to be and stick to it. I just feel like we'll see different combat in the next six months.
I definitely DONT'T like the corruption system.
This is a role-playing game and if I'm a pvp player and I want to play some monster or assassin or sabotage some state, then the corruption system just kills it all in the bud!
What is the point in outdoor if it is limited by the developers and attempts to go beyond the borders are immediately punished.
I definitely DON'T like it.
I want to kill whoever I want, whenever I want.
I agree to the risk of losing some of my resources, etc.
But put pvp debuffs on me and take away my equipment when I kill?
Are you serious rn?
I just hope the penalties don't null Bounty Hunting completely. You need the corruption system, as with it the bounty hunter system and military nodes are intertwined.
I definitely DONT'T like the corruption system.
This is a role-playing game and if I'm a pvp player and I want to play some monster or assassin or sabotage some state, then the corruption system just kills it all in the bud!
What is the point in outdoor if it is limited by the developers and attempts to go beyond the borders are immediately punished.
I definitely DON'T like it.
I want to kill whoever I want, whenever I want.
I agree to the risk of losing some of my resources, etc.
But put pvp debuffs on me and take away my equipment when I kill?
Are you serious rn?
the corruption systems is working as intended then, as its meant to stop ppl like you playing like a griefing ass. Go be a pirate and pvp till your heart is content in the open sea. But they don't want griefers and everything you said sounds like a grade A griefer.
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
I definitely DONT'T like the corruption system.
This is a role-playing game and if I'm a pvp player and I want to play some monster or assassin or sabotage some state, then the corruption system just kills it all in the bud!
What is the point in outdoor if it is limited by the developers and attempts to go beyond the borders are immediately punished.
I definitely DON'T like it.
I want to kill whoever I want, whenever I want.
I agree to the risk of losing some of my resources, etc.
But put pvp debuffs on me and take away my equipment when I kill?
Are you serious rn?
I just hope the penalties don't null Bounty Hunting completely. You need the corruption system, as with it the bounty hunter system and military nodes are intertwined.
If you're banking gameplay to be around BH - you're gonna be disappointed. BH is the last defense to nullify bad behavior pkers. Its not gonna be a constant steam of BH targets. If the Corruption system is as good and strong at deterring griefers, spawn campers, door campers, dungeon campers - you wont be seeing many in due time. People will learn their lesson and not do it.
BH is just fluff, a minor side dish
{UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
I'd really like them not to be, cause otherwise they just seem like a pointless addition to the system, especially considering that they supposed to have a progression path within their own subsystem.
I'd really like them not to be, cause otherwise they just seem like a pointless addition to the system, especially considering that they supposed to have a progression path within their own subsystem.
Definitely hoping that BH is viable enough to be incorporated in gameplay daily. Just as I hope risky decisions are enticed via open world PVP and risking corruption for a quick material swipe from someone or guarding an areas resources. Each of those systems needs to feed eachother
Definitely hoping that BH is viable enough to be incorporated in gameplay daily. Just as I hope risky decisions are enticed via open world PVP and risking corruption for a quick material swipe from someone or guarding an areas resources. Each of those systems needs to feed eachother
Yep. I really wish Intrepid settles on a system that satisfies everyone in this equation. PKers can kill more often, BHs always have someone to hunt because of that and green victims get their "time" back with the help of BHs. I really feel like that would be the best compromise for this kind of system.
I definitely DONT'T like the corruption system.
This is a role-playing game and if I'm a pvp player and I want to play some monster or assassin or sabotage some state, then the corruption system just kills it all in the bud!
What is the point in outdoor if it is limited by the developers and attempts to go beyond the borders are immediately punished.
I definitely DON'T like it.
I want to kill whoever I want, whenever I want.
I agree to the risk of losing some of my resources, etc.
But put pvp debuffs on me and take away my equipment when I kill?
Are you serious rn?
I just hope the penalties don't null Bounty Hunting completely. You need the corruption system, as with it the bounty hunter system and military nodes are intertwined.
If you're banking gameplay to be around BH - you're gonna be disappointed. BH is the last defense to nullify bad behavior pkers. Its not gonna be a constant steam of BH targets. If the Corruption system is as good and strong at deterring griefers, spawn campers, door campers, dungeon campers - you wont be seeing many in due time. People will learn their lesson and not do it.
BH is just fluff, a minor side dish
I am not even planning to be a Bounty Hunter, I just rather players be given the option to handle other players and don't want to see a purpose in the military node nulled.
I'd really like them not to be, cause otherwise they just seem like a pointless addition to the system, especially considering that they supposed to have a progression path within their own subsystem.
Definitely hoping that BH is viable enough to be incorporated in gameplay daily. Just as I hope risky decisions are enticed via open world PVP and risking corruption for a quick material swipe from someone or guarding an areas resources. Each of those systems needs to feed eachother
Definitely hoping that BH is viable enough to be incorporated in gameplay daily. Just as I hope risky decisions are enticed via open world PVP and risking corruption for a quick material swipe from someone or guarding an areas resources. Each of those systems needs to feed eachother
Yep. I really wish Intrepid settles on a system that satisfies everyone in this equation. PKers can kill more often, BHs always have someone to hunt because of that and green victims get their "time" back with the help of BHs. I really feel like that would be the best compromise for this kind of system.
They had so many pinned threads and discussions on the forums since 2017.
I am sure there is no solution to create an algorithm which will detect when a player enjoys the risk the game offers and when the risk becomes a negative experience.
Every player has different threshold and that also changes overtime.
You gave as example recently players running out from the safety of the town just a little bit to taunt others into PvP and that they done this for hours. This is how the game placed the agency on the players. Each was doing this activity as long as it was fun.
There is no way to balance the corruption to satisfy all players. Even if we split them in 3 categories: pure PvE, PvX and PvP, the transition is smooth and any balance will end up splitting the PvX group in two where some will request harsher penalties and others more lenient ones.
Having auto-flagged PvP pockets in a PvE (harsh corruption) environment is a better solution as it gives agency to both attacker and victim. They both decided to enter (or not leave) that place.
Edit: I seen a post saying the BH were added after being requested by players as a safety net if the corruption is not doing a good enough job. That means the corruption is supposed to allow a higher risk/pain onto the attacked players and the BH are supposed to move that treshold and keep the players safe.
The problem is that this does not prevent the attack to happen. It will only if the attacker knows the density of bounty hunters in the area. Their presence would increase the safety of a zone for players who want to be protected. It would be like a variable corruption which changes based on how players login and move in the game. But the game still has to transmit this information to both PvP ready and PvP reluctant players.
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
I would say the only thing i explicitly dislike about Ashes currently would be profession level progression not being directly bound to class level progression. Which could open up possibilities of "exploiting" the system with low class level master Gatherers/crafters.
Can you explain what you mean by exploiting? I am failing to understand the problem you are suggesting.
Send in an army of level 1 gatherers to strip a nodes resources. Can't kill them due to massive corruption difference.
Actually, how on earth does one defend against an 'army' of any resource strippers, of any level? Nodes can be 'attacked' by node strippers and I see very little ways of defending the node without incurring corruption. These 'attacks' apparently have longer lasting effects on the environment IIRC, adding to the damage to the node.
You gave as example recently players running out from the safety of the town just a little bit to taunt others into PvP and that they done this for hours. This is how the game placed the agency on the players. Each was doing this activity as long as it was fun.
And I'm almost sure that there'll be a few freeholds that have the same kind of interaction (considering that you can't be attacked on your freehold). L2's cities let you do way less stuff than the freeholds will, so those who stayed within them not participating in any other content barely did anything else (mainly trading and crafting, if they were supported by farmers). So Ashes is already providing a much broader choice of content that you can participate in w/o even walking outside of a particular location.
There is no way to balance the corruption to satisfy all players. Even if we split them in 3 categories: pure PvE, PvX and PvP, the transition is smooth and any balance will end up splitting the PvX group in two where some will request harsher penalties and others more lenient ones.
Having auto-flagged PvP pockets in a PvE (harsh corruption) environment is a better solution as it gives agency to both attacker and victim. They both decided to enter (or not leave) that place.
This is already the case with the open seas and node ruins (and we might even get more, considering the trend). Corruption is already a pretty big threat to those who attack greens, so anyone who just wants to kill as many people as possible would probably go sailing or travel the world in the search of ruins (or obviously just fucking join any kind of war between any two groups of people).
I seen a post saying the BH were added after being requested by players as a safety net if the corruption is not doing a good enough job. That means the corruption is supposed to allow a higher risk/pain onto the attacked players and the BH are supposed to move that treshold and keep the players safe.
The problem is that this does not prevent the attack to happen. It will only if the attacker knows the density of bounty hunters in the area. Their presence would increase the safety of a zone for players who want to be protected. It would be like a variable corruption which changes based on how players login and move in the game. But the game still has to transmit this information to both PvP ready and PvP reluctant players.
Like you said, rn BHs don't do anything to alleviate the event of a green dying. I think that there should be a system tied to BHs that helps those green victims get back to their pre-death state. It could be an xp gaining boost, a gear repair discount (ideally tied to a bonus for the crafter that helped repair it) or a bonus to their artisan profession.
Obviously this still doesn't prevent the death itself, but the whole point of open world pvp is to let people kill each other, but this way at least the victim loses less stuff (or in other words, time). And if we make green loot an unstackable item that drops first from a PKer and has the name of the victim on it - the BHs will be able to return it to the victim if they manage to catch and kill the PKer.
And imo this kind of system would allow for a bit more lenient corruption gain values, because it would lead to more PKers (satisfying those kinds of people) which leads to more BHs (satisfying the pvp white knights), while not removing as many greens from the game (and also tying them tighter into the game's community, because they will have to interact with way more people now).
But I'm almost sure that at the end of testing Intrepid will just remove BHs completely and tune the corruption all the way up.
I seen a post saying the BH were added after being requested by players as a safety net if the corruption is not doing a good enough job. That means the corruption is supposed to allow a higher risk/pain onto the attacked players and the BH are supposed to move that treshold and keep the players safe.
The problem is that this does not prevent the attack to happen. It will only if the attacker knows the density of bounty hunters in the area. Their presence would increase the safety of a zone for players who want to be protected. It would be like a variable corruption which changes based on how players login and move in the game. But the game still has to transmit this information to both PvP ready and PvP reluctant players.
Like you said, rn BHs don't do anything to alleviate the event of a green dying. I think that there should be a system tied to BHs that helps those green victims get back to their pre-death state. It could be an xp gaining boost, a gear repair discount (ideally tied to a bonus for the crafter that helped repair it) or a bonus to their artisan profession.
Obviously this still doesn't prevent the death itself, but the whole point of open world pvp is to let people kill each other, but this way at least the victim loses less stuff (or in other words, time). And if we make green loot an unstackable item that drops first from a PKer and has the name of the victim on it - the BHs will be able to return it to the victim if they manage to catch and kill the PKer.
And imo this kind of system would allow for a bit more lenient corruption gain values, because it would lead to more PKers (satisfying those kinds of people) which leads to more BHs (satisfying the pvp white knights), while not removing as many greens from the game (and also tying them tighter into the game's community, because they will have to interact with way more people now).
But I'm almost sure that at the end of testing Intrepid will just remove BHs completely and tune the corruption all the way up.
So when you say "I really wish Intrepid settles on a system that satisfies everyone in this equation.", you accept the "remove BHs completely and tune the corruption all the way up" solution too?
Your addition with how the BH could identify the original user is nice. But what are those items?
Resources like sticks and rocks and rare mushrooms? Or intermediate products? The intermediate products actually should be transported via caravans but what is the incentive to use them if corruption protects the solo mule more?
September 12. 2022: Being naked can also be used to bring a skilled artisan to different freeholds... Don't summon family!
Comments
iF there is something WoW and Lineage 2(during subscription era) taught me is that botting and RMT are quite outstanding beast even in Subscription games where the prices of things are higher because of the existence of losses in subscription prices, but even higher prices for RMT to profit.
I pray that Ashes has amazing anti-cheating code and methods, atleast as amazing as the lengths RMTs will go to circumvent them, money truly is one of the strongest motivator out there you know?
Circunventing NPCs is the easiest thing when you know and program around their aggro ranges an paths.
In the end i just hope that you are right and that i'm wrong even tho it's very unlikely to be the case in my eyes...
Aren't we all sinners?
L2 and WoW let people play for free. That's why bots are feasible.
And NPCs were really aggressive and difficult to get around in A1. I'm speaking as someone who has been playing MMOs for much more than 20 years. They made it a lot harder than your typical MMO to get around safely.
WoW isnt free.... RMT was huge in its prime, same went for Everquest during its prime and still is currently.
Both games are subscriptions. I can't speak on L2 since I never played it.
RMT will exist in Ashes of Creation - maybe not in terms of buying gold but players selling high end loot that are gated by the players.
Think of Vanilla WoW - Devilsaur Mafia and Lotus Mafia.
Everquest - not every player ever gets the chance to see raid content, since it is open world and contested - the same goes for AoC Raid Content. Poopsocking high end guilds will lock contents out from players and sell in-game at very high prices to eventually RMT via secret discords.
I have full confidence they will fix this if it becomes an issue. It's such an easy fix with a no brainer variety of solutions.
The biggest issue I have with Ashes, and Intrepid, is the seemingly lack of confidence that others have already touched on.
It manifests itself on several different fronts that I'm not going to go in detail about. But it's concerning. Lead yourself and the genre with confidence Intrepid, or just be another average mmo.
LOL, how many years has it been since you've played WoW?
https://www.engadget.com/2011-06-28-wow-goes-free-to-play-through-level-20.html
It has offered free play for over a decade now. It's only up to level 20 but just the same,
L2 is your typical free-to-play pay-to-win Asian MMO.
Of course RMT will exist. There is literally no way to prevent it. We are not talking about RMT as a whole, but specifically the feasibility of botting. In a game that has zero options for playing without a subscription, not even a demo (which many people have asked for over the years, not happening), you are automatically going to limit botting.
I play Lost Ark (though it has been a while since I logged in) and the vast majority of characters are bots. I am not kidding. In every zone you will see dozens of identical-looking characters running around and doing stuff. It's rare to see another actual person in most areas. That's sort of the other extreme.
Just look at this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/y86rjn/the_extent_of_botting_in_lost_ark/
Now apparently this is mostly an issue in North American servers. Not EU servers. Why? Because folks in North America will actually buy gold and other resources. Folks in EU aren't buying. So therefore, bots are much rarer.
But I don't think that it's the restrictive F2P that makes bots so rampant in WoW. It's because of Blizzard.
https://www.wired.com/story/world-of-warcraft-classic-russian-bots/
“There were over 50 people doing a line walk and yelling,” says Loknar. He was trying to draw attention to the issue, asking passers-by not to buy the Black Lotuses that bots put on the auction house at an inflated 300 gold. (The normal price on most servers, he says, is about half that.) Loknar made a racket, but the mafia knew how to shut him up. The bots mass-reported him to publisher Blizzard for “abusive chat.” Blizzard muted Loknar’s account, and those of other protest participants, for 24 hours. In the meantime, the bots got their Black Lotuses to the auction houses, where they maintained their monopoly.
If Intrepid doesn't suck as much as Blizzard, or Amazon (in the case of Lost Ark) then hopefully bots won't be an issue. Honestly, they're not a problem in most MMOs that I've played.
Lineage 2 for the absolute majority of its existence(before Free to play) did not had a free trial, and RMT/bots still thrived before it's implementation.
As for the NPCs, aggro range was still consistent and dealable tho, we will have to see what the end product will be.
Aren't we all sinners?
From what i think i know, the pvp feels more of a "lets have it in game but make it something you kinda dont have a lot of incentive." It seems like its an 80-20 sort of approach. i dont feel there is a whole lot of value in it. i feel pvp needs to have more benefit to it, other than getting some crafting materials. i know AoC is still early in development and no matter what intrepid does will be great.
I know intrepid has said they're about the whole feeling like you've actually achieved something with your character in terms of time played/ progression/ gearing etc. So in my opinion im hoping that after so many hours played, after getting the best gear and after building my character in a way im hoping that it will feel that way in pvp. like i know its not a popular opinion but if a maxed out dude attacks someone with no gear it should be pretty apparent. Personally im not a fan of the whole equalizing stats and what not. (i know they said they aren't going to do it)
Obviously it would be bad for maxed characters to be harassing newbies. So im hoping in terms of the bounty system that the bounties could be near infinite. Like i could be completely infamous in a server maybe to the point where certain nodes/NPCs attack on site ( maybe even jailed for an hour) and because of my decisions i would have to make my home in nodes who would be PvP oriented (maybe lawless). Me personally, if i made that decision to be heavily invest in pvp (world pvp that triggers the bounty system) i would be fine with having heavy penalties when im caught/killed or jailed.
On the other side of things, being that i enjoy both PVP and PVE i feel it would be part of the MMORPG experience in my opinion to have a 50/50 approach to pvp in terms of viability. I love the feel Ashes has going for it. i think pvp just need a little more "incentive"? without changing too much like changing the entire game into 50% pvp 50% pve overall. They said they're doing a Rock-Paper-Scissors sort of approach when it comes to balance between classes and that you'll feel like you've achieved something so im hoping this means that strong characters will feel strong in either pvp or pvp. Obviously not game breaking strong but like if im a pebble fighting a mountain, i want to feel that.
Thanks for reading
I'm concerned that their combat will not be lockstep with their environment and we're going to get separate sets of art. it's going to be a huge detractor for the eye to follow. Also, not a fan of any of the fat the game has, like flavor texts. It's not a snipe till its a snipe.
S tiers don't exist, they're for entertainment. With that said, I have yet to see a MMO with combat that would actually pique interest of a lot of viewers online. Shroud has stated that the reason he doesn't stream WoW is because he loses a shit ton of followers. The art team is the best in the business, the interface will come in time, but I really hope they think about how their combat not only needs to captivate the people playing it, but they can build it in a way that its attractive to other viewers who would not normally watch an MMO being played.
So hope Ashes goes for the best combat system in the MMO genre, if they score an A. They've rose above all others. I don't know a single honest MMO player who would give any game an A if they're being completely honest. If you do thats fanboying, MMO combat systems are not a top priority.
We will see down the road, I'd like to see more originality out of the combat because it feels more like a Johnny Cash Cadillac meets a comic book. Hopefully they inject some of the realism they used and streamline it a bit, I hate gaudy looking lightshows.
Mini-Games for crafting are genuinely tedious and I'm a craftsman in real life, don't need it in game.
Bots in lost ark like...
personally i cant really think of what id want per se i just think the pvp side of things may need a bit more of a reward other than crafting materials but thats hard to say with it being early devolpment.
The crafting materials you get from killing someone could be perfect being that i get the idea that crafting is a big part.
Yeah, it’s disturbing.
The reward of pvp is comradery, us vs them, area control (grind spot), fighting to get ahead of the current.
It's the purest, most rewarding thing you can get from a real mmo. All the other is way behind.
But you cant understand this feeling if you have only played instanced raids, bg pvp, singleplayer story mode overland mmos.
There is nothing to worry about. You need to try it.
This is a role-playing game and if I'm a pvp player and I want to play some monster or assassin or sabotage some state, then the corruption system just kills it all in the bud!
What is the point in outdoor if it is limited by the developers and attempts to go beyond the borders are immediately punished.
I definitely DON'T like it.
I want to kill whoever I want, whenever I want.
I agree to the risk of losing some of my resources, etc.
But put pvp debuffs on me and take away my equipment when I kill?
Are you serious rn?
I just want Intrepid to settle what combat in Ashes actually is and what it's supposed to be and stick to it. I just feel like we'll see different combat in the next six months.
I just hope the penalties don't null Bounty Hunting completely. You need the corruption system, as with it the bounty hunter system and military nodes are intertwined.
You're on the more extreme end of homicidal players
the corruption systems is working as intended then, as its meant to stop ppl like you playing like a griefing ass. Go be a pirate and pvp till your heart is content in the open sea. But they don't want griefers and everything you said sounds like a grade A griefer.
If you're banking gameplay to be around BH - you're gonna be disappointed. BH is the last defense to nullify bad behavior pkers. Its not gonna be a constant steam of BH targets. If the Corruption system is as good and strong at deterring griefers, spawn campers, door campers, dungeon campers - you wont be seeing many in due time. People will learn their lesson and not do it.
BH is just fluff, a minor side dish
Definitely hoping that BH is viable enough to be incorporated in gameplay daily. Just as I hope risky decisions are enticed via open world PVP and risking corruption for a quick material swipe from someone or guarding an areas resources. Each of those systems needs to feed eachother
I am not even planning to be a Bounty Hunter, I just rather players be given the option to handle other players and don't want to see a purpose in the military node nulled.
yep.
They had so many pinned threads and discussions on the forums since 2017.
I am sure there is no solution to create an algorithm which will detect when a player enjoys the risk the game offers and when the risk becomes a negative experience.
Every player has different threshold and that also changes overtime.
You gave as example recently players running out from the safety of the town just a little bit to taunt others into PvP and that they done this for hours. This is how the game placed the agency on the players. Each was doing this activity as long as it was fun.
There is no way to balance the corruption to satisfy all players. Even if we split them in 3 categories: pure PvE, PvX and PvP, the transition is smooth and any balance will end up splitting the PvX group in two where some will request harsher penalties and others more lenient ones.
Having auto-flagged PvP pockets in a PvE (harsh corruption) environment is a better solution as it gives agency to both attacker and victim. They both decided to enter (or not leave) that place.
Edit: I seen a post saying the BH were added after being requested by players as a safety net if the corruption is not doing a good enough job. That means the corruption is supposed to allow a higher risk/pain onto the attacked players and the BH are supposed to move that treshold and keep the players safe.
The problem is that this does not prevent the attack to happen. It will only if the attacker knows the density of bounty hunters in the area. Their presence would increase the safety of a zone for players who want to be protected. It would be like a variable corruption which changes based on how players login and move in the game. But the game still has to transmit this information to both PvP ready and PvP reluctant players.
Actually, how on earth does one defend against an 'army' of any resource strippers, of any level? Nodes can be 'attacked' by node strippers and I see very little ways of defending the node without incurring corruption. These 'attacks' apparently have longer lasting effects on the environment IIRC, adding to the damage to the node.
Obviously this still doesn't prevent the death itself, but the whole point of open world pvp is to let people kill each other, but this way at least the victim loses less stuff (or in other words, time). And if we make green loot an unstackable item that drops first from a PKer and has the name of the victim on it - the BHs will be able to return it to the victim if they manage to catch and kill the PKer.
And imo this kind of system would allow for a bit more lenient corruption gain values, because it would lead to more PKers (satisfying those kinds of people) which leads to more BHs (satisfying the pvp white knights), while not removing as many greens from the game (and also tying them tighter into the game's community, because they will have to interact with way more people now).
But I'm almost sure that at the end of testing Intrepid will just remove BHs completely and tune the corruption all the way up.
So when you say "I really wish Intrepid settles on a system that satisfies everyone in this equation.", you accept the "remove BHs completely and tune the corruption all the way up" solution too?
Your addition with how the BH could identify the original user is nice. But what are those items?
Resources like sticks and rocks and rare mushrooms? Or intermediate products? The intermediate products actually should be transported via caravans but what is the incentive to use them if corruption protects the solo mule more?