Glorious Alpha Two Testers!

Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!

For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.

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What was the reason you left the MMORPG you played longest?

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Comments

  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Nerror wrote: »
    That is actually a small worry I have for Ashes long-term. I am sure things will be chaotic and fun at first, but 3 years down the line? I worry alliances will be set and stable and node sieges and castle sieges will be a rarity unless Intrepid adds systems that "forces" players to shake up the status quo. It could be via expansions, where new world bosses are seeded based on where there are no lvl 6 nodes, so players are forced to kill one and build another one up at a different place, causing much drama and conflict in the process.

    Hopefully they'll just spawn a few crazy monster events, which will cause a new rush to level up another metropolis.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    DarkTides wrote: »
    WoW's The Burning Crusade, with the addition of Dailies, was the beginning of a change in the approach to gaming content for WoW. The philosophy of development laziness, conjured out of greed. A focus is placed on repeatable content, massive time sinks of repetition, to reduce budget and increase profit. Quality begins to degrade, respect for the playerbase along with it. This trend of Quantity over Quality continues in this and other forms.

    Similarly... Everquest... at some point, the leveling and AA(alternate advancement experience) grind takes its toll.

    There is a common factor, and that can generally be described as 'fear of missing out' or 'FOMO'. We see this used in P2W monetization strategies, but its evil face has other forms.

    In these particular cases, a feeling is generated where you MUST log and grind(and grind, in this sense of the word, is used to describe an undesirable repetitious act), or you're screwed. It becomes very tiring and the only solution is to stop.

    BC killed world PvP because of those stupid flying mounts. Everyone flew - hard to get world pvp and when you do - it's usually the one on the flying mount catching a unexpected player wins. But if you had some form of CC, apply it, mount n fly away.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    I played EQ2 for a bit over 10 years. Logged on all but perhaps 3 days over that time.

    I left due to the developers stating that their cash shop (that they implemented on to the live servers without warning or feedback) was not pay to win - when it most definitely was.

    I played Archeage for about five years, I left because I realized the game was just a gear treadmill, but with no new content to use that gear on.

    A gear treadmill is great if that new gear allows you access to new, interesting content. Archeage just didnt have interesting content, nor new content, but it did have a solid gear treadmill.

    Tbis is the situation I expect Ashes to follow - you get gear to keep up with other players, as opposed to getting gear to unlock new content.
  • RealwrldRealwrld Member, Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    Played Ultima Online on the Pay2Play servers from 1997 until about 2003 - a majority of that time heavily invested into RPing a Shadowclan Orc. When they did the Trammel/Feluccia split it made open world pvp and thus, roleplaying an orc, extremely difficult. So I quit playing pay servers and started playing F2P servers based off of classic UO. Only quit playing those servers because I joined the Army and got too busy with real life schools and deployments to be able to stay consistently involved.

    Since retiring I've been playing New World, waiting for this to launch.

    What I liked about UO that I haven't really found since - open world/full loot PvP and the adrenaline attached to it. Placed and fully customizable player housing. Actual rare/limited edition items that were created naturally in the world vs being bought through cash. A balanced and simple crafting / magic system that didn't make crafting useless past the beginning. I also enjoyed the fact it didn't have levels, and instead used upgrading skills as the basis for growth.
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    I played EQ2 for a bit over 10 years. Logged on all but perhaps 3 days over that time.

    I left due to the developers stating that their cash shop (that they implemented on to the live servers without warning or feedback) was not pay to win - when it most definitely was.

    I played Archeage for about five years, I left because I realized the game was just a gear treadmill, but with no new content to use that gear on.

    A gear treadmill is great if that new gear allows you access to new, interesting content. Archeage just didnt have interesting content, nor new content, but it did have a solid gear treadmill.

    Tbis is the situation I expect Ashes to follow - you get gear to keep up with other players, as opposed to getting gear to unlock new content.

    I hope gear isnt like that. I want gear not to matter to much to a character strength.
    EQ1 (uncertain on EQ2) - while gear was important - it was also rare to constantly upgrade. The stats were helpful but not overpowering. A Naked vs a geared does similar damage, just has reduce stamina/mana/hp pool/def/ac/atk
    but the output is probably 10% less than the geared player.

    I don't want to see AoC go the WoW route of gear.
    I suspect my version to be true due to crafting gear is gonna be a tedious and long process ala EQ gear crafting. Epic Gear will be equivalent to WoW Thunderfurry questline or harder - an EQ Epic Questline to attain stronger / meaningful weapons.
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    novercalis wrote: »
    I don't want to see AoC go the WoW route of gear.

    Neither do I.

    EQ is closer to what I would want to see. In EQ, you always had upgrades to work on, so the gear treadmill was a thing. The difference between EQ and WoW is that in WoW, you could expect an upgrade a week (or more), whereas on EQ, an upgrade a month wasnt unrealistic.

    EQ2 fell between these two.

    The thing these three games all had in common as well though, was that most players never ran out of content. Any gear upgrades you got now would make content you were working on easier (or even outright possible, in some cases), when meant there was always an actual reason to want upgrades.

    Archeage had a rate of gear acquisition for most players that was similar to EQ2 - you could expect a new piece of gear every few weeks if you were working towards that goal, at least up to a point.

    However, the hardest content in the game was able to be killed with mid tier gear. Then they added new, better gear, but no new, harder content.

    Ince your gear is of a certain mid-tier quality,your only reason for getting gear that is any better is for PvP - yet strategy and tactics are what allow you to win in PvP in Archeage (at least PvP that matters).

    When you realized this, and realized that 90%+ of your time in game was spent working towards gaining wealth, the only real use of which was gear improvement, you have to ask yourself why you are even playing the game at all.

    This is why I have always advocated for an EQ/EQ2 style of content addition for Ashes. It keeps the game interesting, and gives people a reason to continue playing, gearing and participating in the games economy.

    Those that dont want PvE content and are just here for the PvP also then get more PvP targets in the game, so it should be a win for everyone.

    Or, you know, we could just have an Archeage situation where you are only getting gear to PvP, and only PvP'ing to get gear.
  • HadatiHadati Member, Alpha Two
    I loved Classic WoW when it first launched, because it was hard. There were no tutorials or handholding. If you accidentally pulled two mobs of your own level, it was touch and go. If you pulled three, you were pretty much either dead or running a long way. But sometimes a random stranger would save you and it'd lead to a lasting friendship. Getting a green drop felt amazing! You'd lose your mind over a rare blue drop. Purples were basically unobtanium.

    Quests didn't make you out to be some hero. You were a nobody! (One quest was basically "Go bring some hot cider to the men on the front line before it gets cold.") If you wandered into a high level zone, you'd aggro mobs from a half mile and generally die and learn to be more careful. You had to grind for months in battlegrounds to get high ranks/access officer's quarters.

    Every class felt distinct and necessary (only druids could battle rez, only warlocks could summon, etc.) and you needed the "holy trinity" of tank, dps, and healers. PvP made it even more of a challenge to venture outside safe zones. The music in Stormwind and Elwynn Forest, etc. were iconic. Patches, the elite undead abomination wandering through Duskwood, would keep running after you for half the zone and one-shot you if he caught up with you. There was no group finder - you advertised in trade chat. You had to plan ahead for dungeons - food buffs, potions, quest items - you better bring it with you before you head out!

    It took several months to reach max level, playing a few hours each night (especially on a PvP server) and when you finally hit max level, there were still dungeons to run and BG's that were fun! Alterac Valley battles could go on for hours!

    The movement of the characters felt smooth and responsive. The spells effects were cutting edge for their day and the weapon attacks felt impactful. The ability to put spec points into different talent trees made the decisions really matter. Saving up for a basic mount took a long time. Saving up for an epic mount took forever. Gorgeous level designs like Winterspring and Dun Morogh and Westfall were everywhere. Epic fights over areas like Southshore and Booty Bay were epic and unforgettable.

    The modern version of WoW makes me sad. There's tutorials everywhere, achievements for every damn thing. Every class can pretty much do everything, or at least enough to make grouping with others at best, unnecessary. Most classes can pull three, five, hell a dozen mobs and just AoE them down. You can buy a "boost" which instantly levels your character up - which means all the content in-between has been deemed basically worthless and a time sink. Purple gear is barfed out every few minutes as a "reward" for forgettable quests, making white, green and blue gear vendor trash. You can fly over the whole world in just a few minutes on a 300+ speed flying mount. Talent trees are gone. Every monster is somehow magically the same level as you; there are no zones you can go where it's "not safe". Mounts are a dime a dozen. Most zones are ghost towns, unless they are in the new expansion.

    Gearscore is all that matters to most people. People treat each other as 100% replaceable because they can just call up the group finder and replace you in two seconds. I don't know about the new XPAC that just dropped pretty much since WotLK it's been a gearscore treadmill and you can't ever stop or you'll fall massively behind. The worst part is that literally everything that made people need each other is gone due to group finders, raid finders, dungeon finders, guild finders. It just feels utterly theme park and scripted and the sense of wonder is completely gone.
  • VaknarVaknar Member, Staff
    The one I've played for the longest period of time? WoW. Since December 2004/January 2005~, I believe.

    I still play, lol. :sweat_smile:
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  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Vaknar wrote: »
    I still play, lol. :sweat_smile:

    hand over your mod powers sir!
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • Wow for over 14 years...

    Reasons why I left is because I tried vanilla classic in 2019... It opened my eyes to look at things differently, I started understanding how to relax in a game and have patience, I started understanding what RPG really is and how it changes the way you play MMO... I was highly competitive player back in cata/MoP when I joined retail wow, although I started in TBC when it was Wotlk on original servers, I played on that private servers for few years until I joined original WoW in last patch of cataclysm expansion and I thought its a real thing, the way mobs die faster, the way leveling is easier and all that stuff and I kept playing until vanilla classic in 2019... I was still playing retail for a while, I even tried dragonflight and I quit yesterday after 3 days of game time... But the way I noticed how much classic vanilla has emphasis on realism and the way they designed RPG in a very mature way, I mean how characters were acting and the humor and everything was on really mature level, it was kind of funny because of childish cartoony graphics, but sense of realism was really there, I also liked economy and how you needed to farm for few hours if you wanted to be prepared for content that you wanted to do seriously, it was not hard, but I liked the process of preparing before doing ''core'' content, although economy was core content for me. I liked how professions were mandatory and gave a lot of comfort while leveling as well as earning gold in unique ways on end level.

    When I realized all that and I understood what they done to retail WoW, I started hating it a lot... I did not play original WoW a lot since 2019, I was on for a month then off for 3-4 months, but I kept coming back because I believe in forgetting and having ignorance as a protection for bad emotions, basically I realized how ignorance can give you easy and nice life compared when you see the complete truth... I started seeing gaming on another level because now I started playing casually and to relax, and when you realize what people are doing to our internet web is beyond crazy to me...

    At least in WoW, people started being full of themselves, instead of having a relaxing time as we once had when I was kid in TBC (I played casual BGs and I was killing specific kind of mobs because it was interesting to me to roleplay as a hunter that hunts bird-men in Terrokar forest and deliver feathers to NPC, until later in classic TBC I found out what reputation really means haha)

    It could be a wonderful internet web of gamers if we all played in a more relaxing way, we could even have fun even in MOBAs instead what we have now, just poke and laugh at others...
  • DuiiDuii Member, Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    Black Desert Online: Current and from Launch (6+ years) but I am fed up with the arsehat community and the BDO Devs and GM's that actively promote griefing of RP'ers. The Lack of any imagination in group content other than Sustained Knockbacks and cleaves from bosses is utterly boring. The degradation of the RP community by open griefing resulted in GM's stating, "That is not against terms of service" and Devs turning blind eyes to the results of thousands of RP'ers leaving so that the current unofficial RP Server (Kamasylvia 2) is void of open RP. If you Open rp, you become berated by lewd comments from griefers, and harassed in whispers. It's god awful now.
    • Gear progression is an endless RNGeezus nightmare
    • Items that were originally given in-game as an event are never again able to be gotten
    • Items that were EXPLOITED on masses in an unintended fashion BDO never removed from the game. Resulting in a privileged few People that have thousands of Cherry blossom trees in their homes. Giving unfair Housing advantages to those few early on in the game
    • A really crappy Black Spirit that they try to maintain as the basis of the central theme but is so entirely weak it's comical and always has been, however when you delve into the lore it has a ton of depth the devs cheapen by not rewriting the Black spirit portion of it, insist certain UI functions ( Enhancements of Gear) go through the Black Spirit menu ( Yes that is an opinion) In order to weakly support their central character and connection to the Player's character which they never have expanded upon as a method for deepening the connection of character to Black Spirit
    • Main Quest derived Weapon and Gear that drops off without ever being heard from again in lieu of Boss gear as opposed to through lines of the gear and weaponry being upgraded further and further Predominantly to get people to have to enhance new Gear items from PRI to Pen utilizing Crons stone that is melted from Costumes bought from the player shop with cash. This became an early "Pay to Win" strategy giving cash customers access to High-end gear from the beginning of the game
    • Crafting however is absolutely ingenious, best I have seen since Everquest II original Crafting system that made you work and think about how you had to go about accomplishing your crafting, but doesn't limit you in the crafting type you can do
    • ABSOLUTELY no real team content
    • Dungeons that are nothing more than WAVES of Mobs that are boring and insidiously moronic, with end bosses that can only knockback/stun/freeze for five seconds or more following up with massive cleaves, with a warning system that may or may not render on your screen...

    Why Am I in BDO Still: Friends and it's the loveliest game out there. Can't do cartooney FF, Love the realism in BDO in the environment and the majestic heights of O'dylitta, and the beauty of Kamasylvia's forests, and Valencia's deserts.

    Oh and the character Creator is second to none for making the avatar of your imagination though limited in scope it simply allows a depth of beauty you can't get in others and that.... is why I am interested in Ashes of Creation

    The Secret World: 6 Years Both Iterations of the game (Original game was the best Reinvention of Spell casts that could have used a lot of love and care but was inventive and the Bosses were gear and Level appropriate)
    Age of Conan: 2 YearsLoved my "Stygian" *itch Anna
    Vanguard: year + Until it died an untimely death (One of the most inventive gear paths and RP Paths I have seen)
    Lineage II: 1 Year
    Everquest II: 1 year
    WOW: 3 Years
    Anarchy Online: 2 Year


    annnnnnnnd sooooo many others.... Tera, Archage, The Skyrim Mmorpg, etc etc

    I am currently actively talking to my BDO guild members about this game, as I am hoping it will pan out to be more RP friendly with great team content
  • Tearl StoneheartTearl Stoneheart Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    EQ1 from launch till EQ2 launch.
    EQ2 launch till EQ Next (Landmark beta)...what a mistake. But we held out hope, made some neat things, etc.
    Next/Landmark died and we tried to go back to EQ2. Guild progressed too much and we were too far behind, so we gave up.
    Played ARK with my family...the kids loved it. Then they got older and bored. It was boring pretty early on anyway, but the family bit was fun.
    Don't hate on me, but my wife and I have been playing New World and having a fun time, mostly with the gathering/processing/crafting. Though crafting is very "meh". There's no real community there either (for our age group)...so we're holding out for AoC. Played A1 and eagerly awaiting A2 and beyond! AoC will be our last MMO most likely.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I want to be able to ever quest.
    I abhor the End Game treadmill. Got burnt out of that with WoW: Cataclysm.
    WoW: Shadowlands had a lot of appeal.
    WoW: Dragonflight is the best MMORPG I've ever played. Been max level for a couple months - still plenty of quests for me to finish. I'm shocked by how much fishing I do. There are plenty of tasks for me to do that don't require me to kill stuff. I definitely feel like I am immersed in my race and class: Evoker.
  • SaltycarrotsSaltycarrots Member, Alpha Two
    World of Warcraft, pretty much when they started introducing paid lvl boosts, overcame that and played on and off for a while but it got worse when they started with all the p2w, buying gold
  • novercalisnovercalis Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    EQ1 from launch till EQ2 launch.
    EQ2 launch till EQ Next (Landmark beta)...what a mistake. But we held out hope, made some neat things, etc.
    Next/Landmark died and we tried to go back to EQ2. Guild progressed too much and we were too far behind, so we gave up.
    Played ARK with my family...the kids loved it. Then they got older and bored. It was boring pretty early on anyway, but the family bit was fun.
    Don't hate on me, but my wife and I have been playing New World and having a fun time, mostly with the gathering/processing/crafting. Though crafting is very "meh". There's no real community there either (for our age group)...so we're holding out for AoC. Played A1 and eagerly awaiting A2 and beyond! AoC will be our last MMO most likely.

    just go to P99 - community still there :)
    {UPK} United Player Killer - All your loot belongs to us.
  • ChimeChime Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    What was the longest you played a single MMO?
    Why did you leave?
    What might have kept you playing?

    Guild Wars 2 for 9 years. Honestly I was just bored after so long, I stayed because of my friends but Discord helps because I can still talk to them and I moved onto other games.
    ☼ Alpha 2 let's gooooo ☼
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  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    my Maplestory addiction began in 2005, I overdosed on it for about 8 years but eventually stopped logging in consistently from 2013 - haven't touched the game since 2021 - so that's ~16 years.

    What killed it for me can be generalized to this: incremental QoL features/efficiency that came at the expense of eroding the imagination and fun of the game + disgusting levels of P2W.

    If I had to boil it down to 3 fatal bullets it would be (ignoring P2W):
    • "Big Bang" update which revamped the design of the entire world - all the quirky, tedious, questionable and honestly useless corners of the world were replaced with standardized designs that were more efficient for grinding. This destroyed a lot of the character of the world and made everything a bit too clinical - has a huge impact on player mindset (there's not much to explore when everything is standardized)
    • The decision to favour solo grinding efficiency over group content - this one is fascinating: originally group content was king so players became so focused on group content that they stopped grinding altogether. In order to compensate, group content was nerfed and the exp/drop from grinding was increased to EXCEED group content. This design decision completely fragmented and undermined socialization in the community because players stopped participating in group content altogether. On realizing the mistake, they re-established group content with EXP advantage but put daily entry limits. This didn't help though, because it immediately turned the experience into a chore to "make sure you hit your cap everyday" and created a whole host of issues around syncing who in the guild played at what time so you could all hit your caps together - it was just a mess.
    • Homogenization of class identity - Originally, each class could do things that other classes could not (thieves had a double jump, mages could teleport, bowmen had crazy range, etc.) but today all classes can do everything: triple jumps with teleports and skills that hit things off your screen. This renders player choice meaningless. This is most obvious to me in new boss design in the game: most boss attacks deal %hp damage to players which means: stacking HP and defense has absolutely 0 impact in a boss fight, and thus warriors are no tankier than glass cannons. There are no roles, no dependencies, no alternatives, no creativity.

    What drove these mistakes?
    Player complaints that trade inefficient loitering for efficient standardization:
    "travelling from A to B is such a pain, can I just tp there?" "why does this area exist? nobody grinds here." "I don't want to rely on anyone else, let me solo it."

    The solution? I think you need a mix of both standardized methods with inefficient alternatives:
    • redesign high-density areas of the world, but keep inefficient areas of the world to provide contrast and character.
    • give players a reason to solo grind that is different to their reason to group up: e.g. grind for exp, quest for money, group up for exclusive materials - let these activites be driven by player NEED, rather than explicit quotas.
    • draw hard lines between classes. When you create exceptions to these rules, have an associated drawback that compensates the exception (e.g. if a warrior can teleport, add a brief period of vulnerability immediately following the teleport etc.)

    Finally, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that:
    the secret to adding meaning to a choice isn't in the benefits of the choice, but in the COST of the choice - the things that you forgo in pursuit of your objective.
    (it explains why reversible choices are meaningless - there's no cost).
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • DubbDubb Member
    edited January 2023
    akabear wrote: »
    Thought for the day.. perhaps a dive into why long-term players leave and possible remedies?
    (not a current MMO)
    • What was the longest you played a single MMO?
    • Why did you leave?
    • What might have kept you playing?

    The longest you played a single MMO= about 10 years[

    I haven't left it yet

    New content would have been nice, better maintenance would have helped a bit also.
    I have attitudes i haven't even used yet
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited January 2023
    Daily quests
    and PvE was to easy and lacked open world pvp to keep it interesting
    instanced pvp became repetative too
  • ariatrasariatras Member, Founder, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I played many MMOs, but by far the one in which I have the most hours in World of Warcraft.
    I left the game because of class homogenisation and because of the many systems added over the years that destroyed a server's community.
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  • Just Amazon Gaming Studios things X)
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