Noaani wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » You are here because Steven has game playing roots in L2. There is no game development roots from L2 or Archeage, just a guy that played those games and enjoyed them. Many others are here because of the roots from the page linked above that Intrepid actually publicized right back from day 1. Those games are the real and actual roots of Intrepid - if not of Archeage. In other words, just as any logical person would expect some shitty monetization practices from Blizz, because they're controlled by greedy execs, I think it's quite logical to expect L2/AA-like mechanics from a game that's not only led but also paid for by a dude who loved those games. Yeah, for sure. But if someone that loved L2 hires a bunch of ex-WoW developers to make a game that has features like L2, that games roots would be in WoW, not L2. Neither that fictional game nor Ashes has any actual connection to L2, and so no roofs in said game. Just a desire to copy some of its features. Keep in mind though, Steven's intention to make L2.2 wasnt really.clear until 2019 or so, it absolutely wasnt clear in 2017. What I dont understand at all is - why didnt Steven hire any ex-L2 developers? If I was in the position to develop an MMO, the first thing I would do is send the 20 or so ex-EQ2 developers I know (well, know well enough to have an email address for) an email... What I absolutely wouldnt do is hire a bunch of developers whose work had been on games completely different to the one I want to make, proudly advertise that fact and expect it to all be fine when the game I am making doesnt really appeal to the people that played the games I advertised my team as having had experience in. Basically, if I am saying my team has experience in a given game, it would be because I am making a game players of those games would be interested in playing.
NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » You are here because Steven has game playing roots in L2. There is no game development roots from L2 or Archeage, just a guy that played those games and enjoyed them. Many others are here because of the roots from the page linked above that Intrepid actually publicized right back from day 1. Those games are the real and actual roots of Intrepid - if not of Archeage. In other words, just as any logical person would expect some shitty monetization practices from Blizz, because they're controlled by greedy execs, I think it's quite logical to expect L2/AA-like mechanics from a game that's not only led but also paid for by a dude who loved those games.
Noaani wrote: » You are here because Steven has game playing roots in L2. There is no game development roots from L2 or Archeage, just a guy that played those games and enjoyed them. Many others are here because of the roots from the page linked above that Intrepid actually publicized right back from day 1. Those games are the real and actual roots of Intrepid - if not of Archeage.
Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » You are here because Steven has game playing roots in L2. There is no game development roots from L2 or Archeage, just a guy that played those games and enjoyed them. Many others are here because of the roots from the page linked above that Intrepid actually publicized right back from day 1. Those games are the real and actual roots of Intrepid - if not of Archeage. In other words, just as any logical person would expect some shitty monetization practices from Blizz, because they're controlled by greedy execs, I think it's quite logical to expect L2/AA-like mechanics from a game that's not only led but also paid for by a dude who loved those games. Yeah, for sure. But if someone that loved L2 hires a bunch of ex-WoW developers to make a game that has features like L2, that games roots would be in WoW, not L2. Neither that fictional game nor Ashes has any actual connection to L2, and so no roofs in said game. Just a desire to copy some of its features. Keep in mind though, Steven's intention to make L2.2 wasnt really.clear until 2019 or so, it absolutely wasnt clear in 2017. What I dont understand at all is - why didnt Steven hire any ex-L2 developers? If I was in the position to develop an MMO, the first thing I would do is send the 20 or so ex-EQ2 developers I know (well, know well enough to have an email address for) an email... What I absolutely wouldnt do is hire a bunch of developers whose work had been on games completely different to the one I want to make, proudly advertise that fact and expect it to all be fine when the game I am making doesnt really appeal to the people that played the games I advertised my team as having had experience in. Basically, if I am saying my team has experience in a given game, it would be because I am making a game players of those games would be interested in playing. when you say roots, what do you mean by that? so if I make a platformer, then I make an RPG, the RPG has its roots on the platformer? and if I make a puzzle games, it has its roots on the other 2 games? shigeru Miyamoto made Mario, then he made zelda. so zelda has its roots on Mario? zelda is inspired on Mario? other than "save the princess" (which most games were back then) they are completely different.
IS has developers that worked in NW, does that mean aoc will be similar to nw?
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » You are here because Steven has game playing roots in L2. There is no game development roots from L2 or Archeage, just a guy that played those games and enjoyed them. Many others are here because of the roots from the page linked above that Intrepid actually publicized right back from day 1. Those games are the real and actual roots of Intrepid - if not of Archeage. In other words, just as any logical person would expect some shitty monetization practices from Blizz, because they're controlled by greedy execs, I think it's quite logical to expect L2/AA-like mechanics from a game that's not only led but also paid for by a dude who loved those games. Yeah, for sure. But if someone that loved L2 hires a bunch of ex-WoW developers to make a game that has features like L2, that games roots would be in WoW, not L2. Neither that fictional game nor Ashes has any actual connection to L2, and so no roofs in said game. Just a desire to copy some of its features. Keep in mind though, Steven's intention to make L2.2 wasnt really.clear until 2019 or so, it absolutely wasnt clear in 2017. What I dont understand at all is - why didnt Steven hire any ex-L2 developers? If I was in the position to develop an MMO, the first thing I would do is send the 20 or so ex-EQ2 developers I know (well, know well enough to have an email address for) an email... What I absolutely wouldnt do is hire a bunch of developers whose work had been on games completely different to the one I want to make, proudly advertise that fact and expect it to all be fine when the game I am making doesnt really appeal to the people that played the games I advertised my team as having had experience in. Basically, if I am saying my team has experience in a given game, it would be because I am making a game players of those games would be interested in playing. when you say roots, what do you mean by that? so if I make a platformer, then I make an RPG, the RPG has its roots on the platformer? and if I make a puzzle games, it has its roots on the other 2 games? shigeru Miyamoto made Mario, then he made zelda. so zelda has its roots on Mario? zelda is inspired on Mario? other than "save the princess" (which most games were back then) they are completely different. Yes, Zelda has its roots in Mario. While the franchises have gone in wildly different directions, the first iteration of each was no where near as different as they are now. However, they are different. Zelda back in the day wasnt advertised as "from the developers of Mario". This is the distinction here. Ashes WAS advertised as being "from the developers of EverQuest 2". And this was back before Steven had made public his intent to make it L2.2 IS has developers that worked in NW, does that mean aoc will be similar to nw? Are they advertising this fact? If they are, then people that enjoyed New World (all three of them) would have reason to expect Ashes to be somewhat similar. If it wasnt going to be somewhat similar, why advertise the fact? Once again, that is the point.
NiKr wrote: » I guess this is why we've had different outlook on the game's prospects.
NiKr wrote: » Balance of corruption gain and clearing values. Also its scaling in relation to your PK count. The stat dampening values and the whole BH system details too. All of those are balancing tools for the owpvp and the pvpness of the game will depend on how all of those end up being designed on release.
Dygz wrote: » NiKr wrote: » I guess this is why we've had different outlook on the game's prospects. I don't think we have a different outlook on the game's prospects. I just don't expect to play Ashes if it's too close to Lineage 2. Because I have no interest in playing games like Lineage 2. I especially won't play games like EvE Online or ArcheAge. NiKr wrote: » Balance of corruption gain and clearing values. Also its scaling in relation to your PK count. The stat dampening values and the whole BH system details too. All of those are balancing tools for the owpvp and the pvpness of the game will depend on how all of those end up being designed on release. I mean Corruption is not really a deterrent for PvP on the Open Seas, so... I'd say that "Corruption balancing" can not counter-act PvP on the Open Seas.
Dygz wrote: » I mean Corruption is not really a deterrent for PvP on the Open Seas, so... I'd say that "Corruption balancing" can not counter-act PvP on the Open Seas.
Azherae wrote: » And as Dygz says, a lot of that comes down to the fact that the Open Seas PvP exists. It's similar to Albion in that regard.
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » I wonder, how people in general will deal with the feeling of not taking a break of AoC in peace, without a worry in the world about having all your stuff desroyed while you are away I do love taking a break of every game sometimes, if I do this in AoC, when I come back I could pretty much have only my gear and bank There's this brutality in AoC that people don't seem to worry about, people mostly show being worry about small ganks instead of thinking about how it's gonna be when you are wiped clean
Depraved wrote: » when you say roots, what do you mean by that? so if I make a platformer, then I make an RPG, the RPG has its roots on the platformer? and if I make a puzzle games, it has its roots on the other 2 games?
Depraved wrote: » the developers don't dictate the direction of the game. the director does. remember when you talked about skills in games being 2 types: do damage to your enemies and undo damage to your allies. well, the developer implements those following the direction of of the director. the director then picks and discards.
Azherae wrote: » Arya_Yeshe wrote: » I wonder, how people in general will deal with the feeling of not taking a break of AoC in peace, without a worry in the world about having all your stuff desroyed while you are away I do love taking a break of every game sometimes, if I do this in AoC, when I come back I could pretty much have only my gear and bank There's this brutality in AoC that people don't seem to worry about, people mostly show being worry about small ganks instead of thinking about how it's gonna be when you are wiped clean That's the thing, I don't know if we're just weird, but no one I know cares about that, because that's part of the dynamism of the world, it's what one signed up for. And there's other reasons, related to the overall difficulty of things like Node Sieges, it being part of the story, and so on. I don't care if the node gets destroyed, it's a little frustrating, but it's part of the experience in a way that 'just being relegated to second class because you can't win against whatever the latest weird cheap or broken tactic' isn't. Macro-activity isn't as annoying, this even applies to ganking and PvP to an extent. If I know that it took 8 coordinated people to achieve the 'gank' and set me back, then it's not the same as the general flow that you get from 'yeah this situation just loops because you're the wrong class and your friends aren't on'. I don't think it's healthy for MMOs to have the 'problem' that MOBAs have where you just 'don't play because your friends aren't on and it's no fun to play with toxic randoms'. So while that might not make a lot of sense, we're definitely much more concerned with 'small random ganks' than coordinated GvG or 'the loss of a Node'. Losing your Node restarts the gameplay loop with different conditions. Being ganked (in the case where you fight back because that's what you're supposed to do') and the opponent just keeps trying to make your play session 'meaningless' doesn't really restart the loop at all.
Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » You are here because Steven has game playing roots in L2. There is no game development roots from L2 or Archeage, just a guy that played those games and enjoyed them. Many others are here because of the roots from the page linked above that Intrepid actually publicized right back from day 1. Those games are the real and actual roots of Intrepid - if not of Archeage. In other words, just as any logical person would expect some shitty monetization practices from Blizz, because they're controlled by greedy execs, I think it's quite logical to expect L2/AA-like mechanics from a game that's not only led but also paid for by a dude who loved those games. Yeah, for sure. But if someone that loved L2 hires a bunch of ex-WoW developers to make a game that has features like L2, that games roots would be in WoW, not L2. Neither that fictional game nor Ashes has any actual connection to L2, and so no roofs in said game. Just a desire to copy some of its features. Keep in mind though, Steven's intention to make L2.2 wasnt really.clear until 2019 or so, it absolutely wasnt clear in 2017. What I dont understand at all is - why didnt Steven hire any ex-L2 developers? If I was in the position to develop an MMO, the first thing I would do is send the 20 or so ex-EQ2 developers I know (well, know well enough to have an email address for) an email... What I absolutely wouldnt do is hire a bunch of developers whose work had been on games completely different to the one I want to make, proudly advertise that fact and expect it to all be fine when the game I am making doesnt really appeal to the people that played the games I advertised my team as having had experience in. Basically, if I am saying my team has experience in a given game, it would be because I am making a game players of those games would be interested in playing. when you say roots, what do you mean by that? so if I make a platformer, then I make an RPG, the RPG has its roots on the platformer? and if I make a puzzle games, it has its roots on the other 2 games? shigeru Miyamoto made Mario, then he made zelda. so zelda has its roots on Mario? zelda is inspired on Mario? other than "save the princess" (which most games were back then) they are completely different. Yes, Zelda has its roots in Mario. While the franchises have gone in wildly different directions, the first iteration of each was no where near as different as they are now. However, they are different. Zelda back in the day wasnt advertised as "from the developers of Mario". This is the distinction here. Ashes WAS advertised as being "from the developers of EverQuest 2". And this was back before Steven had made public his intent to make it L2.2 IS has developers that worked in NW, does that mean aoc will be similar to nw? Are they advertising this fact? If they are, then people that enjoyed New World (all three of them) would have reason to expect Ashes to be somewhat similar. If it wasnt going to be somewhat similar, why advertise the fact? Once again, that is the point. well, they advertised they had devs from eq..for marketing purposes. to give people confidence that they had experienced people. its a frame of reference. i guess I still dont get what you mean by roots. zelda is nowhere near similar to any mario game and vie been playing Mario and zelda since the first one on nes, and also the 2 Mario games in arcade, one with donkey kong, and one either cooperating or competing with luigi in a 1 screen level with 2 pipes trying to beat levels (forgot the name)
Arya_Yeshe wrote: » There's this brutality in AoC that people don't seem to worry about, people mostly show being worry about small ganks instead of thinking about how it's gonna be when you are wiped clean
