NiKr wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Nah, I've never been able to repost a quote of you contradicting yourself. That means I still hide it well then cause I've got a ton of contradictions, but I vale them behind overcomplications of simple concepts. Soon enough they'll pop up
Noaani wrote: » Nah, I've never been able to repost a quote of you contradicting yourself.
Azherae wrote: » You wanted 'veil' here. (I just assume that since you're similar to my ESL EU teammate you also want to know these, lmk if you don't).
Noaani wrote: » This is because in the real world, developers tune content based on how players react to said content, and also in the real world, top end guilds will use combat trackers. The only other argument I can see that you have left - other than the two above - is for you to say you are living in your own world.
MrPockets wrote: » Noaani wrote: » This is because in the real world, developers tune content based on how players react to said content, and also in the real world, top end guilds will use combat trackers. The only other argument I can see that you have left - other than the two above - is for you to say you are living in your own world. I think there is a hidden 3rd option: The developers tune the content to the average player running said content. To me this makes the most sense from a user experience perspective. Top end guilds will for sure still use trackers, but will that be the majority of the players of that content? With that said, isn't there a chance the data being acted upon is from players NOT using trackers? (meaning, they are tuning the game to non-tracker players)
MrPockets wrote: » Noaani wrote: » This is because in the real world, developers tune content based on how players react to said content, and also in the real world, top end guilds will use combat trackers. The only other argument I can see that you have left - other than the two above - is for you to say you are living in your own world. I think there is a hidden 3rd option: The developers tune the content to the average player running said content. To me this makes the most sense from a user experience perspective. Top end guilds will for sure still use trackers, but will that be the majority of the players of that content?
With that said, isn't there a chance the data being acted upon is from players NOT using trackers?
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » I won't be arguing with you over random scenarios that have nothing to do what with i mentioned. As I have said, I am only arguing reality in this thread. The reality is as I stated a few posts above. Because i can't believe how rude you are and spend this much time on the forums and say insulting things / think insulting things towards devs As I said, it was your comments that were suggesting you thought the developers were incompetent, not mine. I know a good number of developers working at Intrepid. I've known a handful of them for years, and have gotten to know a few more somewhat more recently. I know how competent they are at their jobs. It was you that made comments that left us all to either assume you thought that they were not able to do their job, or that you have no idea at all about the topic we are talking about. Fortunately, it turned out to be that you had no idea. You still seem to have no idea that content tuning is done based on how players progress on it. Stop trying to argue what I am not talking about in this current discussion. As I have said, I am currently unsure what it even is you are talking about at this point. You are arguing something about combat trackers not altering content to make it easier, which we agree on. But then you are ignoring the point that I am making in that content is tuned based on player progress. It's almost as if you wish to argue that first point that trackers dont change content by themselves, and then slam the door shut on the discussion. 1. I am talking about logic you are warping a disccusion to fit a reality you want. 2. There is no WHERE in my comments that suggest that. That is you in your own mine thinking insults and trying to use other people in a thread to passive aggressively throw shade at developers. Its disgusting as hell both you throwing shade and trying to force words not said in a persons post to fill your own small ego. This is an issue with your negative mind set and you warping a disccusion in a different direction you have been told multiple times to stop changing it. 3. I am not talking about how information can adjust balance stop bringing that up that is a different discussion and not one i even brought u here. You are too busy trying to put words in my mouth than to listen to the words I have spoken.NOW read and stop changing the topic. Because you are so damn hard headed i will repeat again. The third party trackers you want, or being able to read peoples dmg / DPS meters. HAS NO direct effect on the gameplay in overcoming a challenge. Seeing you hit for 800 dmg has no effect on gameplay seeing the number or not or any other information. You will still need to do the same things to beat the content. So, your 3 points here plus your final paragraph as a fourth. 1, you kind of aren't talking logic. At this point, I dont even know what your posts are. 2, yeah, you clarified that what I was unsure of as being you thinking Intrepid were incompetent or you not knowing what you were talking about was simply you not knowing what you were talking about. It's cool, we both think Intrepid developers are competent. I said that a few posts ago. 3, again, we agree that information doesnt adjust content balance. That isnt at all what I have said. I said competent developers (such as those at Intrepid) adjust content balance. 4, if you do not believe combat trackers provide those using them with an advantage, care to explain: Mag7spy wrote: » The only thing the tool does is it make easier by giving you more information in a easier way so you know better how to race through content without doing the leg work yourself. I mean, in the above quote you seem to be saying a combat tracker allows you to get through content faster, yet in the post I am replying to, you seem to be suggesting that a combat tracker would not do this. This is why I am confused. This is why I have no idea what your point is any more. Are you saying that a combat tracker does not make content any easier as in your most recent post, or are you saying it does make content easier as in the quote above? Before you answer, I'll reiterate the consequences of each. If you do not believe that trackers make content easier (or makes it easier for players to get through content), as per the post I am replying to, then you have no reason to even discuss trackers in relation to content. Believing this means you believe they have no impact, and thus you have no reason to use them or to care if someone else uses them. On the other hand, if you assume that combat trackers do make content easier (or makes it easier for players to get through content), and you agree that Intrepids developers are competent (as we have worked out we both agree on), then that means Intrepids developers will tune the content in the game based on the success of players using combat trackers. This is because in the real world, developers tune content based on how players react to said content, and also in the real world, top end guilds will use combat trackers. The only other argument I can see that you have left - other than the two above - is for you to say you are living in your own world. Now, if none of the above is accurate, I ask you again to reiterate what the hell it is you are trying to say here.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » I won't be arguing with you over random scenarios that have nothing to do what with i mentioned. As I have said, I am only arguing reality in this thread. The reality is as I stated a few posts above. Because i can't believe how rude you are and spend this much time on the forums and say insulting things / think insulting things towards devs As I said, it was your comments that were suggesting you thought the developers were incompetent, not mine. I know a good number of developers working at Intrepid. I've known a handful of them for years, and have gotten to know a few more somewhat more recently. I know how competent they are at their jobs. It was you that made comments that left us all to either assume you thought that they were not able to do their job, or that you have no idea at all about the topic we are talking about. Fortunately, it turned out to be that you had no idea. You still seem to have no idea that content tuning is done based on how players progress on it. Stop trying to argue what I am not talking about in this current discussion. As I have said, I am currently unsure what it even is you are talking about at this point. You are arguing something about combat trackers not altering content to make it easier, which we agree on. But then you are ignoring the point that I am making in that content is tuned based on player progress. It's almost as if you wish to argue that first point that trackers dont change content by themselves, and then slam the door shut on the discussion. 1. I am talking about logic you are warping a disccusion to fit a reality you want. 2. There is no WHERE in my comments that suggest that. That is you in your own mine thinking insults and trying to use other people in a thread to passive aggressively throw shade at developers. Its disgusting as hell both you throwing shade and trying to force words not said in a persons post to fill your own small ego. This is an issue with your negative mind set and you warping a disccusion in a different direction you have been told multiple times to stop changing it. 3. I am not talking about how information can adjust balance stop bringing that up that is a different discussion and not one i even brought u here. You are too busy trying to put words in my mouth than to listen to the words I have spoken.NOW read and stop changing the topic. Because you are so damn hard headed i will repeat again. The third party trackers you want, or being able to read peoples dmg / DPS meters. HAS NO direct effect on the gameplay in overcoming a challenge. Seeing you hit for 800 dmg has no effect on gameplay seeing the number or not or any other information. You will still need to do the same things to beat the content.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » I won't be arguing with you over random scenarios that have nothing to do what with i mentioned. As I have said, I am only arguing reality in this thread. The reality is as I stated a few posts above. Because i can't believe how rude you are and spend this much time on the forums and say insulting things / think insulting things towards devs As I said, it was your comments that were suggesting you thought the developers were incompetent, not mine. I know a good number of developers working at Intrepid. I've known a handful of them for years, and have gotten to know a few more somewhat more recently. I know how competent they are at their jobs. It was you that made comments that left us all to either assume you thought that they were not able to do their job, or that you have no idea at all about the topic we are talking about. Fortunately, it turned out to be that you had no idea. You still seem to have no idea that content tuning is done based on how players progress on it. Stop trying to argue what I am not talking about in this current discussion. As I have said, I am currently unsure what it even is you are talking about at this point. You are arguing something about combat trackers not altering content to make it easier, which we agree on. But then you are ignoring the point that I am making in that content is tuned based on player progress. It's almost as if you wish to argue that first point that trackers dont change content by themselves, and then slam the door shut on the discussion.
Mag7spy wrote: » I won't be arguing with you over random scenarios that have nothing to do what with i mentioned.
Because i can't believe how rude you are and spend this much time on the forums and say insulting things / think insulting things towards devs
Stop trying to argue what I am not talking about in this current discussion.
Mag7spy wrote: » The only thing the tool does is it make easier by giving you more information in a easier way so you know better how to race through content without doing the leg work yourself.
Mag7spy wrote: » What is it that trackers give the player, give me a answer to that question (not a paragraph of detail).
Solvryn wrote: » Reactive combat would fix the DPS meter debacle. Instead of rotations we get the proper skill in the proper moment. TERA was like this, worked out well.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » What is it that trackers give the player, give me a answer to that question (not a paragraph of detail). Easier access to data. Nothing more, nothing less.
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » What is it that trackers give the player, give me a answer to that question (not a paragraph of detail). Easier access to data. Nothing more, nothing less. So simply information as I have been saying in a easier way to get it. But it is not the only excusive way to get that information. Meaning you can gain the information through other ways. If you can get that information through other ways and the only thing you gain is information easier, it means the gameplay doesn't change be it the content being easier or more difficult. So with or without the tools gameplay can remain at the same difficulty if desired.
Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » What is it that trackers give the player, give me a answer to that question (not a paragraph of detail). Easier access to data. Nothing more, nothing less. So simply information as I have been saying in a easier way to get it. But it is not the only excusive way to get that information. Meaning you can gain the information through other ways. If you can get that information through other ways and the only thing you gain is information easier, it means the gameplay doesn't change be it the content being easier or more difficult. So with or without the tools gameplay can remain at the same difficulty if desired. In the same way you asked for a simple answer to your question above, and I gave you that answer, I now want the same from you - a simple question that I am asking for an answer of no more than 12 words. If you dont think combat trackers give players an advantage, why are you so against them?
Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Mag7spy wrote: » What is it that trackers give the player, give me a answer to that question (not a paragraph of detail). Easier access to data. Nothing more, nothing less. So simply information as I have been saying in a easier way to get it. But it is not the only excusive way to get that information. Meaning you can gain the information through other ways. If you can get that information through other ways and the only thing you gain is information easier, it means the gameplay doesn't change be it the content being easier or more difficult. So with or without the tools gameplay can remain at the same difficulty if desired. In the same way you asked for a simple answer to your question above, and I gave you that answer, I now want the same from you - a simple question that I am asking for an answer of no more than 12 words. If you dont think combat trackers give players an advantage, why are you so against them? 10 word answer belowI've always been consistent on saying they give an advantage. This isn't what my post was about, its about the difficulty of content still exist without combat trackers as they only give information. Which is a counter to saying you can't have hard content without trackers meaning PvE player can enjoy it.
Noaani wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Reactive combat would fix the DPS meter debacle. Instead of rotations we get the proper skill in the proper moment. TERA was like this, worked out well. Reactive skills and rotations have no correlation to combat trackers. There was a TERA pluggin for ACT.
Solvryn wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Reactive combat would fix the DPS meter debacle. Instead of rotations we get the proper skill in the proper moment. TERA was like this, worked out well. Reactive skills and rotations have no correlation to combat trackers. There was a TERA pluggin for ACT. And they weren’t necessity in TERA. Because the combat was reactive.
Noaani wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Reactive combat would fix the DPS meter debacle. Instead of rotations we get the proper skill in the proper moment. TERA was like this, worked out well. Reactive skills and rotations have no correlation to combat trackers. There was a TERA pluggin for ACT. And they weren’t necessity in TERA. Because the combat was reactive. The notion of reactive combat has no bearing at all on the usefulness of a combat tracker. In any game system (combat or otherwise) in which players have two or more options, a combat tracker is of use.
Solvryn wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Reactive combat would fix the DPS meter debacle. Instead of rotations we get the proper skill in the proper moment. TERA was like this, worked out well. Reactive skills and rotations have no correlation to combat trackers. There was a TERA pluggin for ACT. And they weren’t necessity in TERA. Because the combat was reactive. The notion of reactive combat has no bearing at all on the usefulness of a combat tracker. In any game system (combat or otherwise) in which players have two or more options, a combat tracker is of use. No one needed a combat tracker for TERA. Could you use them? Sure. You just reacted accordingly.
