Neurath wrote: » Can you imagine how op an evasion tank would be if rng miss was also added on top?
Neurath wrote: » How would you know on the first move if it was rng or evasion if rng exists? You would need to use at least 2 moves to know.
NiKr wrote: » Neurath wrote: » How would you know on the first move if it was rng or evasion if rng exists? You would need to use at least 2 moves to know. I think I'm misunderstanding smth or missing context. As I understand it the stat evasion IS the rng. Like, if you have 100 accuracy and the tank has 101 evasion - you'll still hit him a ton of times, but he'll be able to evade you quite a bit too. It's not like he'll start 100% evading anything that doesn't match his evasion in accuracy. Is that a wrong assumption? Is that last sentence exactly how it works in some games?
Neurath wrote: » rng miss is another dynamic on top based on output rng
NiKr wrote: » Neurath wrote: » rng miss is another dynamic on top based on output rng As in, your attack just has a random chance to miss, no matter the stats of your target? If that's the case - that's the stupidest thing I've heard. I gueeeeess I could see it as a "critical fail" in a d&d setup or smth like that, where instead of even aiming at your target your character shoots the ground or the sky, but I just cannot see how that could be anywhere near usable in an mmo situation. The more you know, I guess.
Niem Lumel wrote: » Neurath wrote: » Can you imagine how op an evasion tank would be if rng miss was also added on top? My point was that if there is evasion added to the game, a guaranteed one is better than an rng one so instead of having evasion stats some classes have abilities for evasion.
JamesSunderland wrote: » Just an additional for my other post in the thread Alpha 2 WIP UI Character sheet has Accuracy % and Disable Chance % as stats listed on Magical stats tab.
Solvryn wrote: » Niem Lumel wrote: » Neurath wrote: » Can you imagine how op an evasion tank would be if rng miss was also added on top? My point was that if there is evasion added to the game, a guaranteed one is better than an rng one so instead of having evasion stats some classes have abilities for evasion. I dislike defensive RNG, I remember playing ESO fighting someone and they were able to "evade" all of my attacks just by keeping buffs up. That kind of braindead gameplay has no business in a game that touts PvP, luckily Zenimax wizened up and didn't give players anymore evasion buffs and changed that.
Noaani wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Niem Lumel wrote: » Neurath wrote: » Can you imagine how op an evasion tank would be if rng miss was also added on top? My point was that if there is evasion added to the game, a guaranteed one is better than an rng one so instead of having evasion stats some classes have abilities for evasion. I dislike defensive RNG, I remember playing ESO fighting someone and they were able to "evade" all of my attacks just by keeping buffs up. That kind of braindead gameplay has no business in a game that touts PvP, luckily Zenimax wizened up and didn't give players anymore evasion buffs and changed that. If this kind of thing is done properly, chance to hit type mechanics are basically a gear check. If they have significantly better gear than you, you can't hit them. This is kind of an important faucet of any game in which gear progression is to be considered important. In such games, the appropriate remedy to someone being able to evade all of your attacks is to get better gear. Obviously, some games are made poorly, and adding buffs with stats that are supposed to be used as a designation of gear progression would suggest poor design to me. IMO, passive evade should only ever be a function of gear and your class. The only buff that should ever impact it at all are buffs that function as a tanks stance. Having short term buffs that guarantee an evade on the next hit or some such is not a bad design, but such abilities should have a cooldown of at least 20 seconds, and no class should have more than 1.
Solvryn wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Niem Lumel wrote: » Neurath wrote: » Can you imagine how op an evasion tank would be if rng miss was also added on top? My point was that if there is evasion added to the game, a guaranteed one is better than an rng one so instead of having evasion stats some classes have abilities for evasion. I dislike defensive RNG, I remember playing ESO fighting someone and they were able to "evade" all of my attacks just by keeping buffs up. That kind of braindead gameplay has no business in a game that touts PvP, luckily Zenimax wizened up and didn't give players anymore evasion buffs and changed that. If this kind of thing is done properly, chance to hit type mechanics are basically a gear check. If they have significantly better gear than you, you can't hit them. This is kind of an important faucet of any game in which gear progression is to be considered important. In such games, the appropriate remedy to someone being able to evade all of your attacks is to get better gear. Obviously, some games are made poorly, and adding buffs with stats that are supposed to be used as a designation of gear progression would suggest poor design to me. IMO, passive evade should only ever be a function of gear and your class. The only buff that should ever impact it at all are buffs that function as a tanks stance. Having short term buffs that guarantee an evade on the next hit or some such is not a bad design, but such abilities should have a cooldown of at least 20 seconds, and no class should have more than 1. ESOs tertiary/waterfall stats to put it plainly suck. They just suck less then before.
Noaani wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Niem Lumel wrote: » Neurath wrote: » Can you imagine how op an evasion tank would be if rng miss was also added on top? My point was that if there is evasion added to the game, a guaranteed one is better than an rng one so instead of having evasion stats some classes have abilities for evasion. I dislike defensive RNG, I remember playing ESO fighting someone and they were able to "evade" all of my attacks just by keeping buffs up. That kind of braindead gameplay has no business in a game that touts PvP, luckily Zenimax wizened up and didn't give players anymore evasion buffs and changed that. If this kind of thing is done properly, chance to hit type mechanics are basically a gear check. If they have significantly better gear than you, you can't hit them. This is kind of an important faucet of any game in which gear progression is to be considered important. In such games, the appropriate remedy to someone being able to evade all of your attacks is to get better gear. Obviously, some games are made poorly, and adding buffs with stats that are supposed to be used as a designation of gear progression would suggest poor design to me. IMO, passive evade should only ever be a function of gear and your class. The only buff that should ever impact it at all are buffs that function as a tanks stance. Having short term buffs that guarantee an evade on the next hit or some such is not a bad design, but such abilities should have a cooldown of at least 20 seconds, and no class should have more than 1. ESOs tertiary/waterfall stats to put it plainly suck. They just suck less then before. ESO gear policy from the ground up sucks. That doesnt mean the same basic concept of evade and chance to hit cant be really good - it just isnt ever going to be in ESO.
Enigmatic Sage wrote: » Regardless of where it lands in the spectrum of nuances, RNG is a relative staple in games designed like this. Now, not all RNG is equal, that is for sure. Considering the whole AC vs TT there is more acceptable allowances in my opinion depending on where the combat basics derive from. Dmg is RNG within in a threshold based on various numerical core values just as critical strikes chance and damage allowances are. I am definitely not a fan of RNG block/evade chances though as I definitely prefer more of an AC. Your dodging and blocking chances relies on your skill over RNG. Simple yes, but relatively effective for core gameplay. If going for more AC in regards to combat, visual queues can be quite important rather than just attacks occurring and RNG filling the void because there was no time available for reactions to take place. This is respectfully for both PvE and PvP per se.
