Noaani wrote: » hleV wrote: » Noaani wrote: » The point you are making - from my understanding- is that you dont want to have the risk of losing gear for killing one player that is either in a spot you want to farm, or has pissed you off in some way. Bravo. Now, I expect you to address this one thing specifically, instead of generalizing and pretending that gear piece drop RNG at low corruption level is the only punishment for going red, and that I wish to remove all punishment for going red. I'm not sure you understood what just happened. We were discussing the topic at hand, and you made the assumption that I didn't grasp the point you were making. I then went and stated what I assumed to be the point you were making, and you agreed that I was right with that. What this then means is that YOU failed to understand the point that I was making. You failed to understand it so badly that you didn't think I was even addressing the points you were talking about. to reiterate, the point I am making is that before you attack someone, perform a risk analysis. Things like the farming spot in question you may be fighting over come in to play with that, as does the potential that a player may have pissed you off. Against that, you weight up the risk you put yourself in, the value of gear you stand to lose, the likelihood of running in to another player while working off any potential corruption, the chance you have of winning or losing the fight etc. If that risk analysis isn't acceptable to you, but you still want to attack, you make an effort to swing that analysis more in to your favor. This could be by putting on less valuable gear, by attempting to move the location of the fight to somewhere that is less populated, or what ever else. Right from the start of this games development, this is what Steven wanted. He wanted players to have to consider whether to attack someone else or not, he wanted some weight behind that decision. Even if some of the specifics around corruption may change, that point of there being some weight to the decision is the point. A key part of that is that when you want to fight someone, and the risk analysis comes up as being not in your favor, sometimes you have to opt to simply not attack that player. There is no weight behind that decision if the result of said decision is to always attack when you want to attack - the point of corruption is that there will be times when you want to fight, but simply do not. That is corruption working as it should. If you attack a player every time you want to attack a player, corruption is not working. So, as I said back on the previous page, your objections here are proving that corruption will have the desired effect.
hleV wrote: » Noaani wrote: » The point you are making - from my understanding- is that you dont want to have the risk of losing gear for killing one player that is either in a spot you want to farm, or has pissed you off in some way. Bravo. Now, I expect you to address this one thing specifically, instead of generalizing and pretending that gear piece drop RNG at low corruption level is the only punishment for going red, and that I wish to remove all punishment for going red.
Noaani wrote: » The point you are making - from my understanding- is that you dont want to have the risk of losing gear for killing one player that is either in a spot you want to farm, or has pissed you off in some way.
Neurath wrote: » You didn't get my point at all. You want to change the dynamics to be kill count only which is false. You get varied amounts of corruption based on activity, thus, the risk of losing gear is different depending on the action taken. More accumulated corruption means higher chance to drop an item.
Depraved wrote: » also, IIRC steven himself said that you will have a safe threshold for pk count, not for corruption
NiKr wrote: » Depraved wrote: » also, IIRC steven himself said that you will have a safe threshold for pk count, not for corruption Unless you manage to find a quote for this - this isn't true. That screenshot people posted before is supported by several voice quotes of "as long as you have corruption on you - you can drop full items". Steven just, yet again, made the system harsher than it was in L2. I personally disagree with it quite a lot, but until we test it there's not much point in discussing it.
tautau wrote: » If someone risks their valuable personal gear because they went red because another player irritated them, it appears to me to be a personal issue with the player going red ~ their lack of personal self-control is potentially costing them their valuable item(s). They should not blame the game rules, they would be better served learning to tame their emotions and learn to master themselves.
Depraved wrote: » I'm 100% sure he said it during a stream, but hey maybe he can drop by and clarify.
Depraved wrote: » what if a pve player is harassing and griefing you? how are you going to deal with that?
Depraved wrote: » Neurath wrote: » You didn't get my point at all. You want to change the dynamics to be kill count only which is false. You get varied amounts of corruption based on activity, thus, the risk of losing gear is different depending on the action taken. More accumulated corruption means higher chance to drop an item. you could kill 3 people safely in l2 before dropping gear if you died red. that's your kill count. aoc has a kill count, and the higher it is, the more corruption you will get whenever you get corruption. check the wiki. also, IIRC steven himself said that you will have a safe threshold for pk count, not for corruption
NiKr wrote: » Depraved wrote: » I'm 100% sure he said it during a stream, but hey maybe he can drop by and clarify. 100% sure is great but I cannot find any indication of this being the case. Depraved wrote: » what if a pve player is harassing and griefing you? how are you going to deal with that? In what way are they harassing and griefing? Any verbal stuff is just muted and any flagged advances get pvped. So that pretty much only leaves mob manipulation and we don't know how that'll work and if it will even work in the first place. If they're fighting your mobs better than you - you're the weakling in this situation and you should go find a better-suiting place for yourself. And if they're just helping you get your loot (because they're always below 40% dmg) - all the better for you.
hleV wrote: » And here you go again, explaining the current system and giving tips on how to play in it, when literally nobody asked, and pretending like moving gear drop RNG to higher corruption somehow removes any and all punishment for getting low corruption, never really addressing my concerns about the system being bad. That's what you've been doing all this time, which means you're not grasping what's being discussed here. I honestly don't see why you'd put so much effort into writing all this crap if you actually understood what this is about. I really, really made myself clear. It's evident that several others understood what I wrote. You're just hopeless, but then I'm hopeless as well if I keep replying to you, so I'll just stop. Feel free to explain the current system and give tips for the 100th time if you wish.
Depraved wrote: » having 1-3 pk count protection seems fair. or how do you guys propose we deal with pve griefer? so far pve griefers arent getting punished in any way, only pvp griefers.
Okeydoke wrote: » Depraved wrote: » having 1-3 pk count protection seems fair. or how do you guys propose we deal with pve griefer? so far pve griefers arent getting punished in any way, only pvp griefers. I expect this to deal with griefers: "Players that work outside of the game design to grief or harass other players are actionable by customer services.[1]" I expect whatever action Intrepid takes will be sufficient enough to largely deter both pvp and pve griefers. It will never be perfect. But you can get it in a pretty good state by practicing the age old art of enforcing the rules of your game. Devs these days may need to dust off some very dusty tomes on that subject though. Having at least 1 kill protection from gear drop chance does all kinds of things, there's all kinds of reasons why it's a good idea. Being able to kill a pve griefer (without catastrophic risk) is one of them, one of the less important ones imo though. Ultimately the person doing the griefing needs his account actioned on and eventually banned if they don't stop. Because someone deadset on griefing can just keep coming back no matter how many times you kill them.
Depraved wrote: » also, only pve carebears report. real men pvp and solve their problems fighting, not calling daddy and asking for bans
Lodrig wrote: » Has anyone considered there may be levels of violence towards other players which fall short of murder and which may be sufficient to deter these forms of petty harassment that people seem so sure are going to drive them into uncontrollable bloodlust? For example, just knocking another player out but not delivering a killing blow might cause them to just be out for a minute or two and they will wake back up again with a mild de-buff. That's probably enough to establish 'dominance' and see who gets to farm the mobs in the area. The corruption that would come from this could be far less.
NiKr wrote: » Depraved wrote: » having 1-3 pk count protection seems fair. or how do you guys propose we deal with pve griefer? so far pve griefers arent getting punished in any way, only pvp griefers. First off, just to make my position clear, I do not see any mob manipulation as harassment or griefing. To me that's simply what the game allows you to do and everyone in the game gotta deal with it. This also includes the main counter to those actions - be in a fucking party. It's gonna be a party game, so be in a party. "Dropping mobs" doesn't work, because the mobs that would kill a party in that situation would've killed the initial puller way before he brings the mob to his target. But even if I did try and see this as abuse, like I said, we don't know how the game will work in this context. Will the mobs be able to just be dumped on people? Will the mobs easily reset? Will the bosses not just kill the one who pulls them? Will we have different abilities or consumables that help us deal with any of the above? We got 0 clue about any of that. So right now, no the pvp/pk solution doesn't seem like the only one to me. As for the 1-3pk rule. It will literally not solve anything. If there's someone who's going so far with their actions that you feel you gotta kill them - you killing them won't stop them. So your PKs will go up way past 3. And this is exactly why I hope that we get other tools to address non-pvp "griefing".
Depraved wrote: » well, following someone and killing them over and over isn't considered griefing
Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » well, following someone and killing them over and over isn't considered griefing I would consider that griefing.
Depraved wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Depraved wrote: » well, following someone and killing them over and over isn't considered griefing I would consider that griefing. yes, and intrepid too...but its allowed in the game.
