Isth3reno1else wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Isth3reno1else wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Liniker wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » But Ashes doesn't really have PvE. Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing, Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have. That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players. PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers. Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve. To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high. Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either.
Noaani wrote: » Isth3reno1else wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Liniker wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » But Ashes doesn't really have PvE. Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing, Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have. That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players. PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers. Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve. To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high.
Isth3reno1else wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Liniker wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » But Ashes doesn't really have PvE. Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing, Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have. That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players. PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers. Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve.
BlackBrony wrote: » Liniker wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » But Ashes doesn't really have PvE. Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing, Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have. That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players. PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers.
Liniker wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » But Ashes doesn't really have PvE. Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing, Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol
BlackBrony wrote: » But Ashes doesn't really have PvE.
Noaani wrote: » Isth3reno1else wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Isth3reno1else wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Liniker wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » But Ashes doesn't really have PvE. Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing, Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have. That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players. PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers. Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve. To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high. Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either. If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect. At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough.
Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Isth3reno1else wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Isth3reno1else wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Liniker wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » But Ashes doesn't really have PvE. Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing, Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have. That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players. PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers. Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve. To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high. Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either. If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect. At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough. A solution to this could be different mechanics while PvP is involved. I couldn't even begin to think of how the AI would know to react but if it fights one way when PvP is active, and another when only one group is focusing it, that could potentially solve the issue you're worried about if it's done correctly
Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Isth3reno1else wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Isth3reno1else wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Liniker wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » But Ashes doesn't really have PvE. Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing, Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have. That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players. PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers. Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve. To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high. Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either. If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect. At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough. A solution to this could be different mechanics while PvP is involved. I couldn't even begin to think of how the AI would know to react but if it fights one way when PvP is active, and another when only one group is focusing it, that could potentially solve the issue you're worried about if it's done correctly While this could be interesting, it would also be abused.
Shabooey wrote: » Just wondering (this isn't a targeted question so feel free to jump in if you wish) Do you think that there could be a high end PvE boss/dungeon/raid, think of hard ones or ones you've enjoyed from other games, that could work in the AoC setting of potentially coming into contact with other groups trying to complete it? Or would this just be too much to actually complete?
Percimes wrote: » Questions. Can IS showcase a top end raid encounter without all archetypes presented first? Can they show anything without revealing these archetypes' abilities sets? How representative would showcasing that encounter with place holders or incomplete sets be? Would it be received as false promises? Lies? Aside from concept arts of the big bad guy, some maps or modeled terrain, are we there yet to be presented more? Beside saying there will high end PvE stuff, what would be pertinent and convincing?
Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Isth3reno1else wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Isth3reno1else wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Liniker wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » But Ashes doesn't really have PvE. Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing, Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have. That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players. PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers. Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve. To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high. Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either. If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect. At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough. A solution to this could be different mechanics while PvP is involved. I couldn't even begin to think of how the AI would know to react but if it fights one way when PvP is active, and another when only one group is focusing it, that could potentially solve the issue you're worried about if it's done correctly While this could be interesting, it would also be abused. Yea if it is left too basic. I feel like if it was somehow based off the damage each group was doing to eachother it may no be as abused
Dolyem wrote: » Shabooey wrote: » Just wondering (this isn't a targeted question so feel free to jump in if you wish) Do you think that there could be a high end PvE boss/dungeon/raid, think of hard ones or ones you've enjoyed from other games, that could work in the AoC setting of potentially coming into contact with other groups trying to complete it? Or would this just be too much to actually complete? Personally I think bosses should be difficult, but not to the point like in retail WoW where you need several add-ons to manage getting through them.
Shabooey wrote: » I appreciate the replies, it's really interesting as I'm not typically someone who will do what the best PvE players and guilds do with raids and that. I quite like the idea of the conflict in these encounters but can absolutely see that for those players/guilds who don't this is a big issue. Do you think it could work if you fought for control of the dungeon or something then you have access to it? Not sure just trying to see if there's a way to have that high end PvE encounter and have the threat of PvP.
Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Isth3reno1else wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Isth3reno1else wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » Liniker wrote: » BlackBrony wrote: » But Ashes doesn't really have PvE. Dungeons & Raids both open world and instanced, POIs, Narrative events, world events with stuff like invasions etc, regional and world bosses, treasure hunting, Housing, 23 different professions across gathering crafting and processing, Saying AoC has no PVE should be a bannable offense lol Bro, that's not PvE. That's filler content. It's like saying that Arenas 1v1 is PvP, and that's all you have. That's the problem. You people think PvE is that, but it's not. It won't satisfy PvE players. PvErs want to run dungeons and raids, not pick flowers. Seems like it's not your type of PVE, but it's inherently pve. To be clear, we are talking about PvE for specific PvE players. We don't bother going in to the details of it in every post for breveities sake. By PvE in the context of these discussions, we are talking abotu PvE content where the challenge comes from the PvE itself, not the PvP associated with it, and idealy where that challenge is high. Idk if any of us are in a situation to say that PVE content in Ashes won't be challenging though either. If PvP exists in conjunction with the PvE aspect, and the encounter is designed to be able to be killed with that in place, then most of the challenge can't be coming from the PvE aspect. At this point, it comes down to Intrepids intentions rather than specific encounter design. This is why them detailing (or even outlining) their intentions in relation to this content is enough. A solution to this could be different mechanics while PvP is involved. I couldn't even begin to think of how the AI would know to react but if it fights one way when PvP is active, and another when only one group is focusing it, that could potentially solve the issue you're worried about if it's done correctly While this could be interesting, it would also be abused. Yea if it is left too basic. I feel like if it was somehow based off the damage each group was doing to eachother it may no be as abused The problem with this is that if it were in the game, you may not be able to abuse it very well, but I (or anyone with the same tools as me) would be able to. Finding the sweet spot in terms of the amount of damage my guild needs to do to itself (or using a "non-allied" guild is that is needed) in order to get the encounter to the easiest state we can is simply a matter of trial and error. To be clear though, I do think the idea has merit, and really is an interesting thing to think about. Dolyem wrote: » Shabooey wrote: » Just wondering (this isn't a targeted question so feel free to jump in if you wish) Do you think that there could be a high end PvE boss/dungeon/raid, think of hard ones or ones you've enjoyed from other games, that could work in the AoC setting of potentially coming into contact with other groups trying to complete it? Or would this just be too much to actually complete? Personally I think bosses should be difficult, but not to the point like in retail WoW where you need several add-ons to manage getting through them. My opinion is that they should be that difficult, take longer, but those tools should be built in to the game - what ever tools are needed. I'm more than happy with them being guild perks.
Dolyem wrote: » My point was more or less don't require a 3rd party program to be able to complete the games content.
Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » My point was more or less don't require a 3rd party program to be able to complete the games content. This is a point I totally agree with - which some may consider amusing.
Dolyem wrote: » Nah I remember the dps meter thread haha
BlackBrony wrote: » Percimes wrote: » Questions. Can IS showcase a top end raid encounter without all archetypes presented first? Can they show anything without revealing these archetypes' abilities sets? How representative would showcasing that encounter with place holders or incomplete sets be? Would it be received as false promises? Lies? Aside from concept arts of the big bad guy, some maps or modeled terrain, are we there yet to be presented more? Beside saying there will high end PvE stuff, what would be pertinent and convincing? To be fair, you don't need abilities to design content. You can do it without abilities. Abilities help you fine tune or add specific mechanics. The point is that there is almost zero reference to raids. The last time I remember Steven said something along the lines of bosses will change based on how fast you kill them. That's it. Nothing about mechanics, what you might need, encounters or how they plan to have lots of them that are different.
Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » My point was more or less don't require a 3rd party program to be able to complete the games content. This is a point I totally agree with - which some may consider amusing. Nah I remember the dps meter thread haha
Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Dolyem wrote: » My point was more or less don't require a 3rd party program to be able to complete the games content. This is a point I totally agree with - which some may consider amusing. Nah I remember the dps meter thread haha You mean that thread where I said Intrepid should build a combat tracker in to the game client?
