Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Chonkers wrote: » They actually are Actually are skillshots? Cause I feel like Solvryn will not agree with you. You don't shoot knives after all. And it's all about the "shot". So you do not know what a shot is? It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate. You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance. what if you are shooting (or launching) a grenade? you aim at the ground for example. so according to you, throwing a grenade doesn't count as aiming because it is "placed" on the ground. As a grenadier my M203 (military grenade launcher) never was aimed at the ground at any time; it was aimed in the air. I launched grenades into the air with some accuracy so it landed in the area of the desired target I wanted to destroy. You aim something you intend on turning into a missile, like a grenade, shot (little metal balls), an arrow, a knife, a spoon, a rubber duck. Lethality is a discussion the proceeds this one. You can rig a grenade so it acts like a mine though, because mines, grenades, bombs, hellfire missiles (rockets), are still explosive ordnance. same difference. you didnt aim it at the player (or person/soldier). but following your logic, aiming only applies when you aim at another player / person.
Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Chonkers wrote: » They actually are Actually are skillshots? Cause I feel like Solvryn will not agree with you. You don't shoot knives after all. And it's all about the "shot". So you do not know what a shot is? It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate. You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance. what if you are shooting (or launching) a grenade? you aim at the ground for example. so according to you, throwing a grenade doesn't count as aiming because it is "placed" on the ground. As a grenadier my M203 (military grenade launcher) never was aimed at the ground at any time; it was aimed in the air. I launched grenades into the air with some accuracy so it landed in the area of the desired target I wanted to destroy. You aim something you intend on turning into a missile, like a grenade, shot (little metal balls), an arrow, a knife, a spoon, a rubber duck. Lethality is a discussion the proceeds this one. You can rig a grenade so it acts like a mine though, because mines, grenades, bombs, hellfire missiles (rockets), are still explosive ordnance.
Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Chonkers wrote: » They actually are Actually are skillshots? Cause I feel like Solvryn will not agree with you. You don't shoot knives after all. And it's all about the "shot". So you do not know what a shot is? It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate. You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance. what if you are shooting (or launching) a grenade? you aim at the ground for example. so according to you, throwing a grenade doesn't count as aiming because it is "placed" on the ground.
Solvryn wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Chonkers wrote: » They actually are Actually are skillshots? Cause I feel like Solvryn will not agree with you. You don't shoot knives after all. And it's all about the "shot". So you do not know what a shot is? It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate. You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance.
NiKr wrote: » Chonkers wrote: » They actually are Actually are skillshots? Cause I feel like Solvryn will not agree with you. You don't shoot knives after all. And it's all about the "shot".
Chonkers wrote: » They actually are
Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Chonkers wrote: » They actually are Actually are skillshots? Cause I feel like Solvryn will not agree with you. You don't shoot knives after all. And it's all about the "shot". So you do not know what a shot is? It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate. You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance. what if you are shooting (or launching) a grenade? you aim at the ground for example. so according to you, throwing a grenade doesn't count as aiming because it is "placed" on the ground. As a grenadier my M203 (military grenade launcher) never was aimed at the ground at any time; it was aimed in the air. I launched grenades into the air with some accuracy so it landed in the area of the desired target I wanted to destroy. You aim something you intend on turning into a missile, like a grenade, shot (little metal balls), an arrow, a knife, a spoon, a rubber duck. Lethality is a discussion the proceeds this one. You can rig a grenade so it acts like a mine though, because mines, grenades, bombs, hellfire missiles (rockets), are still explosive ordnance. same difference. you didnt aim it at the player (or person/soldier). but following your logic, aiming only applies when you aim at another player / person. The “turns into missile”, or “object now moving very fast in air” seems to be the part you forget. Which is why we aim in the first place. I aim a grenade launcher at the sky because a grenade loses acceleration fairly quickly and then falls to the ground. It becomes a missile with a fixed trajectory. That doesn’t ever mean it’s a straight line, it’s an arc. The same thing is true for snipers, there is an entire mathematical equation to learn during sniper school, they don’t aim in a straight line at their target.
CROW3 wrote: » @Azherae - so choose option 2 to avoid your opponent potentially perceiving you as unskilled and ruining their fun? Option 2 seems like a false choice. Based on our conversations, my guess is that if you were forced to not play your class to it’s full potential in the context of that fight, that Option 3 would be the only reasonable choice.
Solvryn wrote: » It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate. You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance.
Solvryn wrote: » Fiddlez wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » You don't shoot Divine Flare, you place it on the ground. Skills shots, require that you shoot them. Kind of feel like we are getting a little particular here. I don't mind them but I prefer autocast features on AoE target skills. Demon hunter in WoW does it decently. Either way I just kind of find them a pain in the ass. Doesn't feel good for me. I prefer we just not mislabel things. Especially when there are many other games for juxtaposition.
Fiddlez wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » You don't shoot Divine Flare, you place it on the ground. Skills shots, require that you shoot them. Kind of feel like we are getting a little particular here. I don't mind them but I prefer autocast features on AoE target skills. Demon hunter in WoW does it decently. Either way I just kind of find them a pain in the ass. Doesn't feel good for me.
Solvryn wrote: » You don't shoot Divine Flare, you place it on the ground. Skills shots, require that you shoot them.
Raven016 wrote: » I know a minecraft youtuber who is "cooking" iron and stone in the furnace. So annoying
NiKr wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate. You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance. Ah, so it's about being able to block the projectile? Cause with current combat design I'm still not sure if we have this ability in the game. And if we don't have that ability in the game, then there's literally no "skillshots" in Ashes at all. And if your current feedback is "add skillshots to the game" then we agree on that point (though I'm on the side of "let me block shots"). And if it's not about being able to block that then functionally they are the same thing. Ground decal just have a wider conal aoe than an arrow. If anything, it's harder to hit a delayed attack (even if it's an aoe) that a quick-flying arrow (let alone fast magic projectile). And another thing I'm curious about. Can shotguns have skillshots? Cause shotguns are conal aoes, effectively. And if they can't, then what's the cut-off limit on the conal degrees for it to constitute as a "skillshot" in your opinion? As for the grenade launcher thing. The gun itself was aimed at the sky, but you were targeting smth on the ground, right? You calculated a timing for the attack (unless target was completely stationary) and then chose the appropriate angle of the attack to hit as close to the target as possible. With a delayed ground decal attack you'll need to calculate the timing, choose the correct placement of the decal and the character will do the "aiming", just as the launcher was aimed at the sky and not you. Both are tools that you use to hit a target. Would you start calling this ability a skillshot if the animation simply changed to a "character throws out a projectile"? So the effect, the mechanic, the delay, the everything else is literally the same - but the animation simply has a projectile in it.
Solvryn wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate. You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance. Ah, so it's about being able to block the projectile? Cause with current combat design I'm still not sure if we have this ability in the game. And if we don't have that ability in the game, then there's literally no "skillshots" in Ashes at all. And if your current feedback is "add skillshots to the game" then we agree on that point (though I'm on the side of "let me block shots"). And if it's not about being able to block that then functionally they are the same thing. Ground decal just have a wider conal aoe than an arrow. If anything, it's harder to hit a delayed attack (even if it's an aoe) that a quick-flying arrow (let alone fast magic projectile). And another thing I'm curious about. Can shotguns have skillshots? Cause shotguns are conal aoes, effectively. And if they can't, then what's the cut-off limit on the conal degrees for it to constitute as a "skillshot" in your opinion? As for the grenade launcher thing. The gun itself was aimed at the sky, but you were targeting smth on the ground, right? You calculated a timing for the attack (unless target was completely stationary) and then chose the appropriate angle of the attack to hit as close to the target as possible. With a delayed ground decal attack you'll need to calculate the timing, choose the correct placement of the decal and the character will do the "aiming", just as the launcher was aimed at the sky and not you. Both are tools that you use to hit a target. Would you start calling this ability a skillshot if the animation simply changed to a "character throws out a projectile"? So the effect, the mechanic, the delay, the everything else is literally the same - but the animation simply has a projectile in it. Aye. It’s about it not being a missile or an object in 3d space. If it’s a skillshot, you can block it, dodge it, or it can get hung up in the environment. You guys dont realize it, but some us bring it up every week in the discord. If it’s an aimed ability then it’s blockable and should be subject to collision detection - it’s not. We are coming in on A2 and ranger is looking very tab. Depends on the game, I’ve seen Shotguns coded in many different ways. Mostly cones, rays, but Apex codes them with an actual spread to where some of the shot hits and misses per round so you get different numbers each time you press LMB, unless all of the round hits then you get full damage. The launcher was aimed at the sky so the grenades trajectory lands within near proximity of the target. But the point of it is that it’s still a missile and those can still be obstructed. I don’t care that Divine Flare is a GTAoE, that’s fine. I don’t care that it’s a decal that is placed on the ground. But you can’t block nor dodge it, it is not subject to collision detection. When those things can happen then calling it a skillshot won’t be misleading. Communicative Accuracy.
Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate. You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance. Ah, so it's about being able to block the projectile? Cause with current combat design I'm still not sure if we have this ability in the game. And if we don't have that ability in the game, then there's literally no "skillshots" in Ashes at all. And if your current feedback is "add skillshots to the game" then we agree on that point (though I'm on the side of "let me block shots"). And if it's not about being able to block that then functionally they are the same thing. Ground decal just have a wider conal aoe than an arrow. If anything, it's harder to hit a delayed attack (even if it's an aoe) that a quick-flying arrow (let alone fast magic projectile). And another thing I'm curious about. Can shotguns have skillshots? Cause shotguns are conal aoes, effectively. And if they can't, then what's the cut-off limit on the conal degrees for it to constitute as a "skillshot" in your opinion? As for the grenade launcher thing. The gun itself was aimed at the sky, but you were targeting smth on the ground, right? You calculated a timing for the attack (unless target was completely stationary) and then chose the appropriate angle of the attack to hit as close to the target as possible. With a delayed ground decal attack you'll need to calculate the timing, choose the correct placement of the decal and the character will do the "aiming", just as the launcher was aimed at the sky and not you. Both are tools that you use to hit a target. Would you start calling this ability a skillshot if the animation simply changed to a "character throws out a projectile"? So the effect, the mechanic, the delay, the everything else is literally the same - but the animation simply has a projectile in it. Aye. It’s about it not being a missile or an object in 3d space. If it’s a skillshot, you can block it, dodge it, or it can get hung up in the environment. You guys dont realize it, but some us bring it up every week in the discord. If it’s an aimed ability then it’s blockable and should be subject to collision detection - it’s not. We are coming in on A2 and ranger is looking very tab. Depends on the game, I’ve seen Shotguns coded in many different ways. Mostly cones, rays, but Apex codes them with an actual spread to where some of the shot hits and misses per round so you get different numbers each time you press LMB, unless all of the round hits then you get full damage. The launcher was aimed at the sky so the grenades trajectory lands within near proximity of the target. But the point of it is that it’s still a missile and those can still be obstructed. I don’t care that Divine Flare is a GTAoE, that’s fine. I don’t care that it’s a decal that is placed on the ground. But you can’t block nor dodge it, it is not subject to collision detection. When those things can happen then calling it a skillshot won’t be misleading. Communicative Accuracy. you can make a tab targetted skill blockable and dodgeable. that has nothing to do with whether the skill is a skillshot or not or wether you have to aim it or not. that has to do with how you decide to program the skill. also, you are confused with what is collision detection. literally every skill has it (except instant self skills)
_I_ wrote: » Well you keep saying that aiming and placing are different...but you have to AIM your reticle to PLACE the AoE. So...you are doing both. Which would, in your own words, be a skillshot. Since you are aiming. Hope this clears things up for you!
Solvryn wrote: » Depraved wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » NiKr wrote: » Solvryn wrote: » It's a metal ball that you intend on shooting or putting, depending on what activity you're taking part in. In this case becomes a missile, you aim it. There in lies the key, something you aim, has a fixed trajectory, and travels a distance at a rapid rate. You understand that Divine Flare is not aimed, it's not an object in 3d space, has no fixed trajectory, does not travel across any distance. Ah, so it's about being able to block the projectile? Cause with current combat design I'm still not sure if we have this ability in the game. And if we don't have that ability in the game, then there's literally no "skillshots" in Ashes at all. And if your current feedback is "add skillshots to the game" then we agree on that point (though I'm on the side of "let me block shots"). And if it's not about being able to block that then functionally they are the same thing. Ground decal just have a wider conal aoe than an arrow. If anything, it's harder to hit a delayed attack (even if it's an aoe) that a quick-flying arrow (let alone fast magic projectile). And another thing I'm curious about. Can shotguns have skillshots? Cause shotguns are conal aoes, effectively. And if they can't, then what's the cut-off limit on the conal degrees for it to constitute as a "skillshot" in your opinion? As for the grenade launcher thing. The gun itself was aimed at the sky, but you were targeting smth on the ground, right? You calculated a timing for the attack (unless target was completely stationary) and then chose the appropriate angle of the attack to hit as close to the target as possible. With a delayed ground decal attack you'll need to calculate the timing, choose the correct placement of the decal and the character will do the "aiming", just as the launcher was aimed at the sky and not you. Both are tools that you use to hit a target. Would you start calling this ability a skillshot if the animation simply changed to a "character throws out a projectile"? So the effect, the mechanic, the delay, the everything else is literally the same - but the animation simply has a projectile in it. Aye. It’s about it not being a missile or an object in 3d space. If it’s a skillshot, you can block it, dodge it, or it can get hung up in the environment. You guys dont realize it, but some us bring it up every week in the discord. If it’s an aimed ability then it’s blockable and should be subject to collision detection - it’s not. We are coming in on A2 and ranger is looking very tab. Depends on the game, I’ve seen Shotguns coded in many different ways. Mostly cones, rays, but Apex codes them with an actual spread to where some of the shot hits and misses per round so you get different numbers each time you press LMB, unless all of the round hits then you get full damage. The launcher was aimed at the sky so the grenades trajectory lands within near proximity of the target. But the point of it is that it’s still a missile and those can still be obstructed. I don’t care that Divine Flare is a GTAoE, that’s fine. I don’t care that it’s a decal that is placed on the ground. But you can’t block nor dodge it, it is not subject to collision detection. When those things can happen then calling it a skillshot won’t be misleading. Communicative Accuracy. you can make a tab targetted skill blockable and dodgeable. that has nothing to do with whether the skill is a skillshot or not or wether you have to aim it or not. that has to do with how you decide to program the skill. also, you are confused with what is collision detection. literally every skill has it (except instant self skills) GTAoEs aren’t missiles, they aren’t subject to missile detection like other abilities are.
