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Leveling & Questing Should Feel Like an Adventure
Flashfirez23
Member, Founder, Kickstarter
I really am excited for Ashes and I think this MMO has the potential to fix many issues that MMOs currently have. One of my biggest issues with MMOs is that leveling and questing don't matter and the experience is not engaging in 90% of MMOs. I am sick of filer content that is only in the game to increase your playtime and is not inherently interesting in any way.
I am done doing kill 10 boar quests in every MMO or “role-playing” as a UPS delivery person. There’s no epic adventure. It’s just a checklist of tasks. There’s no intrigue and everything is handed to you. It’s quality over any quality or substance. I’m just tired of this and want quests and leveling to actually feel like an adventure.
Quests should mean something again and tell stories. We should be learning about the world and characters, making decisions that matter, and going on a rewarding journey. It is better for an MMO to have 100 great quests than 1000 forgettable time-wasting quests. Kill-and-collect quests, fetch quests, and errand quests need to be left in 2004. Every quest should matter and be immersive.
Leveling should also mean something. I miss when it mattered and not something you just rushed through. The good part of the game should be available to you as you progress to the level cap not just when you hit the level cap. Obviously, there should be things to work for once you hit the max level that challenges you. But, it is important that there is enough engaging content during the leveling as well so you feel engaged throughout this process. Not just filer quests with the occasional dungeon thrown in.
We need areas of challenge in the leveling process. MMO leveling is too easy. Nothing is challenging anymore until you hit the max level. It is hard to be engaged when you can level half paying attention and still not be at risk of dying. Danger is important to making you respect the world and it keeps things mysterious. It is important that there are some areas in the leveling process that challenge players.
What are your thoughts on how leveling and quests should be in Ashes?
I am done doing kill 10 boar quests in every MMO or “role-playing” as a UPS delivery person. There’s no epic adventure. It’s just a checklist of tasks. There’s no intrigue and everything is handed to you. It’s quality over any quality or substance. I’m just tired of this and want quests and leveling to actually feel like an adventure.
Quests should mean something again and tell stories. We should be learning about the world and characters, making decisions that matter, and going on a rewarding journey. It is better for an MMO to have 100 great quests than 1000 forgettable time-wasting quests. Kill-and-collect quests, fetch quests, and errand quests need to be left in 2004. Every quest should matter and be immersive.
Leveling should also mean something. I miss when it mattered and not something you just rushed through. The good part of the game should be available to you as you progress to the level cap not just when you hit the level cap. Obviously, there should be things to work for once you hit the max level that challenges you. But, it is important that there is enough engaging content during the leveling as well so you feel engaged throughout this process. Not just filer quests with the occasional dungeon thrown in.
We need areas of challenge in the leveling process. MMO leveling is too easy. Nothing is challenging anymore until you hit the max level. It is hard to be engaged when you can level half paying attention and still not be at risk of dying. Danger is important to making you respect the world and it keeps things mysterious. It is important that there are some areas in the leveling process that challenge players.
What are your thoughts on how leveling and quests should be in Ashes?
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Comments
Not sure Steven has softened on the grindability of the game. Which means, it will be questing only for viable levelling.
he said questing and farming mobs
Got a quote for that? Because that's news. Steven was anti grinding some time ago.
he said it in one of the streams..also grinding quests is still grinding.
he said leveling will include a mix of questing and farming mobs.
id love if quests were like Raganrok's or l2's. go kill mobs. kill as many or as little as you wish, then ill reward you for each one you've killed
Yeah, naturally, but that's not actual grinding. At no point has Steven said 'Yes, you can grind to max level.'
Actually, he did, kind of. someone asked if you could stay in the same node and level up to max, instead of going to different nodes. he said in theory, you can, but it will take you a very long time because you would be killing low level mobs.
I suppose you could grind the same level 3 node until you hit level 50, but it will take you a lot more than 2 months.
So, can I make a levelling group and just follow the high level mobs and do 24 hour grinding and complete the levelling process in quick time so long as we don't stay at the same low level node (Which would only be for RP reasons if I did just level at the same node). I say this because Steven is very keen for everyone to experience the hidden lore and you won't do that so much if you disconnect from the quests.
well, technically...you would have to wait until the nodes level up. so there wont even be high level mbos when the server starts xD
maybe you could do this after there are max level nodes, but i suppose it will take more than 24 hours.
we also dont know if there are exp penalties for killing mobs that are much higher level than you, or if you can even kill them.
i suppose quest will be more like a boost to your mob farming. instead of killing 10 mobs and picking up 5 flowers and gaining a whole level from that. or killing 100 mobs for 1 level, you will pick up the quest, then go t oan area and kill mbos there while completeling the story or whatever. kill 60-70 mobs and the rest of the exp will come from turning in the quest and then you get a level plus money and other stuff. you will also unlock quests for the next level, etc. a combination of both.
we will have to wait for a2 i guess ;3
yeah, hence you still can't grind. Anyway, i'm not sure if the quests are static (same across all servers) or dynamic (dependant on node development and different per server).
Yeah, you could do that but I aim to level as fast as possible. Often grinding is the fastest method. However, in Ashes quests will be the fastest method. There's no lost love about grinding, just a lack of love for questing.
one being Runescape and the other being Everquest
Everquest had the normal collection quests for normal leveling purposes however they also had quests that gave you nice piece of equipment reward however these quests were quite an adventure/task to do usualy going through muiltipul zones alot of the time or killing a big named mob and then you have epic quests which were these kinda of quests but on drugs where they were huge chest line but reward was worth it in the end which gave you a class specific weapon. (EQ quest items also dropped even if you didnt have a quest for it which i quite like cause they you went out of your way to find out what the item was even for)
Runescape is similar to EQ quests aswell in regards they were adventures to complete usualy not just simple kill quests
TLDR Ashes should have some quests designed for leveling experience which mainly gives XP rewards however there should also be long adventuring quests that provides a great rewards for more effort put in
From what I understand of your definition - you, specifically, will still have fun Grinding a bunch of stuff - even when Steven states they have successfully made Grinding negligible.
I think Steven sees as grinding doing repeatedly the activities in a sandox mmo which have no curated content and the dailies in themepark mmorpgs which happen each time the same way, without risk, with random players.
So he comes with this theme box concept on a big map, to offer a better experience to those who typically join an mmo without friends and don't enter guilds either.
Rescue a traveller from a Vampire
- Find Traveller
- Break Three Seals By Finding Them And Pressing [E] On Each
- Kill Vampire
Close down a Portal to a Hell Dimension
- Find Portal
- Close Three Portal Stones By Finding Them And Pressing [E] On Each
- Kill Portal Demon
Help a Caravan recover its lost supplies
- Find Caravan
- Find Supplies And Press [E] On Each
- Kill Monster Attacking Caravan.
Please please pleeeaaase, no more "Go Here And Press [E]" quests. If you want us to close a portal, give us an interesting way to close the portal. If you want us to break three holding seals trapping someone in a prison, give us an interesting way to break the seals. Just, don't make us hit [E] on everything we see.
And sure, maybe ESO has just become too big for itself and has run out of all quests, so they just churn them out with bog-standard Press-[E] nonsense. But, that's not what we want here.
I guess Steven might've been talking about the people who play 2h a week. Then I'd agree that they won't have to grind, because there'll be enough content for them to enjoy for months to come. But then Steven should've explained himself better (but you already know that this is a common theme with Steven
There will never be enough content for the 10%ers. But then again, as one of those people I don't begrudge games/studios for not keeping up with my voracious consumption of content. As long as the game loops/systems for leveling and endgame are "good enough" *cough* NW *cough* I have no problem pushing the limits and continuing to invest in the world.
I'm just curious about the statement of "we aim to not have grind". Because, as always, it's the vaguest statement and it doesn't explain what the hell that even means. Does it address repetitive quests? Mobs? Node tasks? Does it pertain to 2h a week people or 12h a day people?
It's "all the claims with none the detail".
There will not be repetitive quest lines through a single dungeon to obtain gear.[12]
That means there will be multiple dungeons
Is there a game you reference in what would be a good example for what you want?
I understand what you are saying questing in mmorpgs have always been bad but there are reasons for that as well. You aren't going to get a god of war experience in a mmorpg.
We'll see.
I dunno what you mean by "end" when content changes based on the interconnected Stages of all the active Nodes and which Service buildings are constructed - and Verran Calendar date and Weather. And probably which Races and Node Types are dominant.
In addition to the plan to have Seasonal content - a promise which seems easier for MMOs to fulfill these days.
People out here expecting the impossible and first time of a mmorpg will only be let down.
Right now I expect the exact same as all other mmos. It's just that it goes against what Steven claimed, which is why I can't wait for them to show what they have planned.
Only two of the follies of a strict vertical leveling system.